Hi Slam,

Does this mean you are still a virgin or have never practised oral sex? It
is possible to contract herpes with your first sexual experience. Just
because you've never had a cold sore does not mean you're not positive for
Type 1. This is easily picked up by most people through kissing and by the
time we are adults, about 80 to 90% of us have oral herpes. But only about
10-15% of us will have regular outbreaks.

I agree with M2, have a blood test and find out your antibody status.
Regards, Maree

Where I live, the Rx I was given for suppression cost $227 for 30
pills! (it's not a big city area.)  It is no guarantee of no outbreaks
and while it may lower shedding it does _not_ stop it.  Female to male
transmission rate is 3-4% without suppression therapy (male to female
transmission is 10-11%) based on the CDC website. The 3-4% is
comparable to many contraceptives' effectiveness. (And I think that is
the chance of transmission w/o condoms or other barriers.)

So basically suppression therapy, unless the person has frequent
outbreaks, is paying for the feeling you're doing _something_ rather
than simply avoiding sex just before and during outbreaks.  

And the other bad news was a recently released or soon to be released
study saying after tracking 100+ women with genital herpes for 3 years
there appears to be _no_ pattern to the _shedding_ of the virus. Some
shed more days than others.  Some shed the virus 3 days per month.
Some shed 10 days per month. And it varied month to month for many of
the women. And seemingly no way to predict which days. (I was told all
this at Planned Parenthood in August this year.  I don't have any
cites for the study.)  

This information did _not_ make my day.

Again every previous partner would have to be tested.  Some may have
had it before sexual contact with her.  A "sexy" version of the
question would to ask what she keeps by her bedside and tell what you
keep beside yours.  Be prepared :-)  And experiment.

And again it's timing.  These can be rather intimate questions and why
bother answering if you're not sure the relationship is going to last.
Why should she make herself vulnerable by telling you these details if
she and you are wondering the relationship is worth the risk.

To me--I have children and I know that every September one of them is
going to get sick because it is another new school year.  I can guess
when the first cold will occur but not the second, third, fourth, etc.
Simply being a parent puts me at risk.  Simply being in an adult
sexual relationship puts you at risk for other things including colds
and flu.  And you never know.  All you can do is take good care of
yourself and take _any_ illness in stride.

As you get older your partner may get heart disease or lung problems
that can scare you to wonder if they can live through any sexual
activity.  Getting along day to day is most of what being a partner is
about, not hype about having a great sex life.

(Now if Maxium magazine was as brave and macho about STDs and
contraception I'd be a lot happier.  But it lives in the fantasy of
sex without preparation or consequences, as do so many people.)

At Planned Parenthood I was told it is only the outbreaks that lessen
over time.  There is no reliable evidence that the _shedding_ is
lowered.  In other words that comforting "fact" was believed true
years ago, but it is incorrect.

Like I said,not a great day.  I've had this for 18 years and didn't
know it for 10, so I thought "18 year I can't transmit this."  <sigh>

Shedding test kits for men and women would be nice so you could do
home analysis to know which days not to have certain kinds of sexual
contact.  And would be a big business!

Luck. ...for now.  A congress and administration that takes sex
seriously or maybe fears it less would go a long way to educate and
research these diseases.

LK

I didn't mean to say it was "bad".  Just depends on the situation.
"Delicate" might be a better term, so use your best diplomacy if you
want to ask it.  I just meant that, as far as the here and now is
concerned, and questions relevant to how to prevent the spread to you,
I didn't see how an answer here would help ... unless it's tied to a
follow up question i.e.
How did it happen?
a)No condom
b)Condom came off
c)No suppression
d)All of the above
e)Other
Still, like LK suggested, she might not take the question well no
matter how much diplomacy you use. If that's the case, any concern of
transmission could be for naught at that point.

M2

I agree that asking if she's ever transmitted it to anyone else might be
tricky.

What's to be gained?  You suggest knowing how good she is at preventing
infection.  I just want to remind you that while there are apsect of
transmission you can control (not having sex during outbreaks, taking those
expensive meds every day, etc), there are plenty of aspects you may have
little control over or knowledge about.

This is a very tricky disease that's designed, in some ways, to be "smarter"
than we are.

1)  You don't have to have the first damn symptom to be contagious,
allthough if you have symptoms it's more likely that you are.

2)  Condoms don't cover everything.  Boy do they help, but they simply don't
cover everything.

It's time for me to insert my standard caveat:  I am speaking from my own
experiece; my experience may not be relative to you.

Without symptoms and with condom use, I DID pass this on to my beloved.  I
think my viral load must have been low and the condom must have helped some
because his case is way, way mild, but it happened all the same, and the
physical symptoms of herpes are often only a fraction of the problem.

What I'm saying is a simple yes or no about whether she's passed it on
doesn't necessarily indicate how vigilant she is about prevention.  And if
she passed it on, it's possible she may have learned from her experience.  I
came to this group because I passed it on -- I thought I knew everything
already, but lo and behold there had been advances since my initial
diagnosis!  And since I found this group.

However, the question might shed some very important light on how she would
DEAL with such an event.  And I think that IS worth knowing.

So I don't think it's an alltogether bad question in itself if you fully
discuss it and bear in mind the limitations of what the answers may or may
not reveal.

I'll also add that I think washing is really important.  If she washes
before and you wash after, that'll also help prevent transmission.  And I
think it's just, you know, a good idea anyway.

Good for you for being involved, for not putting all the pressure on her to
discuss it, for being willing to bring it up and keep an open mind.  I know
as the infected partner that I would have felt less of a burden and total
responsibility if a partner asked me questions; otherwise, I'd just have to
guess what he needed to know.

best,
mishaisacat

FOr the average person it about halves the risks....given the routinely
quote 4% while avoiding outbreaks means that you have a 69% chance of not
picking it up in 9 years of monogamy - well halving the yearly chance by
use of suppression means that chance over 9 years goes to about 83%

Depending on how long you intend to stay with this person - you are either
dealing with changes of very small percentages over the short term - or
stil relatively small ones over the long term given how cumulative
probability goes.

Oh and those rates are TRANSMISSION rates - not disease rates in the
affected partner.

Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:37:37 -0500, M2slo2cht wrote:

It's technically correct but lemme re-word that.
Type 2 oral is rare.  It can happen though.
Type 1 genital is common, but just not as common as type 2 genital.

M2