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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / November 2005Picking up the Pieces
Hi Angela, I have a question for you. Once in awhile I google my name just to see what comes up. This morning, I was very surprised to see that my name come up in your group. I'm not exactly sure how that happened. But, when I googled my name, it brought up old posts from pup. I could then click on those posts and read messages from your group. This surprised me because your group is private and I did not expect that someone would be able to read those posts. Any ideas? ar >surprised me because your group is private and I did not expect that someone >would be able to read those posts. I don't know about pup specifically, but yahoo group moderators/owners have the option of using RSS feed which, among other things, opens them up to search engines. Even the private groups. Just a thought. Yosh will probably know for sure when she comes along. M2 Hi M2, I was a bit surprised because none of my groups are searchable. I do whatever I can to protect the people in my yahoo groups and make it completely private. I would think that a group dedicated to something as delicate as herpes would be the same. ar >>surprised me because your group is private and I did not expect that someone >>would be able to read those posts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >M2 >completely private. I >would think that a group dedicated to something as delicate as herpes would be >the same. Maybe so, maybe no. Just depends on what an individual wants. There must be hundreds if not thousands of Yahoo Herp groups. Some are so private they're literally invisible and un-findable without an invitation. Others are as open and available as usenet. Herpessingles for instance. 4300 members, automatic (immediate) membership approval, no moderation, I think you may even be able to read the archives without joining although that may have changed that lately. I think pup is somewhere between those two extremes. Membership is restricted and new members are moderated... maybe a even a few old ones lol!... ...and trouble makers get the boot. But it's a fairly large group so not exactly what you'd think as a private/intimate situation anyway. Anyhow, point being, there's lots to choose from over there no matter what your privacy preferences ;-) M2 I haven't seen Angela in a while, either on here or on PUP, which I frequent from time to time. She might be having a child as I think she was pregnant. I tried to send her an instant message on yahoo, but she didn't answer it so I assume she's not home. Yes, as far as messages I did a search on myself and found alot of posts having to do with herpes as well as Honda's so I think its all pretty much public domain, but I don't really care anyway. Somebody's got to have herpes...so its not like I'm going to hide it really. Ideally it would be better to be private though. Al > >completely private. I > >would think that a group dedicated to something as delicate as herpes would be [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > M2 Understood. (Yes, I think she might be having the baby.) I guess that because 100% of the groups I belong to are private, I was surprised to see that. ar >100% of the groups I belong to are private I think most of mine are too, I haven't checked them all. But I know some are private, one in particular is completely invisible. You can tell which ones have RSS feeds by looking on the home page. You'll see two buttons in the recent message section. One says "My Yahoo" and the other says "XML". And next to them is a link that says "What's this?" that gives a good explanation. M2 Yep, there they are. Thanks, M2. ar >>100% of the groups I belong to are private > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >M2 Here's a tip AR, Right on the front of each yahoo group there is an option you can click on that says "Settings." If you click on that for Picking Up the Pieces it pretty much sums up how the group is set up. On one of my private-by-invite-only groups after you click on "Settings" it states that the group is not listed in the directory. Thus, the RSS feed option would not be an option at all in those circumstances. I think what people need to realize is that there is no such thing as private on the internet. Even in a private group somebody can take what has been posted and reproduce it to be posted anywhere or passed on via e-mail.. which is another reason why folks should think about choosing their screen name and e-mail address wisely. Angela :-)  SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html > Understood. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ar Hiya Al ~ I think I got your note awhile back but just lost track of everything. I'm currently 38 weeks pregnant and this baby is definitely going to come any time now. I've also been sick and trying to get myself well before she gets here.. Over all though I think everything will be fine and if you do see me disappear for a short spell you'll know why. In the meantime you guys are more than welcome to read my baby updates which I think some of you might find to be fun and a different change of pace if you have time to check out my blogs.. (((*Hugs*))) Angela :-) SignatureeBlogs and Bloggers - Do you Blog? http://www.yoshi2me.blogspot.com/ http://www.workathomemomblog.blogspot.com/ http://www.oh-baby-baby.blogspot.com/ http://www.herpes-help.blogspot.com/ >I haven't seen Angela in a while, either on here or on PUP, which I >frequent [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Al M2 has it right on the money!! Here are the stats for Picking Up the Pieces: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ Group Settings: - Membership requires approval - Messages from new members require approval - All members can post messages - Email attachments are not permitted - Members can hide email address - Listed in directory Those settings are posted right on the front of the group for all to see. We have four moderators that approve pending members and messages along with three PUP H Pals that offer support privately while those pending members are waiting for approval. It's a nice little system actually.. Yes, new members are moderated because that reduces all the spamming and trolling that would take place had there not been any moderation. But, once we see that a new member has joined to self promote or spam then we take off the moderation ASAP. Picking Up the Pieces has always been listed in the directory and open to the public and members have always been able to hide their e-mail addresses. Angela :-) SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html >>completely private. I >>would think that a group dedicated to something as delicate as herpes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > M2 All of my yahoo groups are searchable except for one which happens to be a private-by-invite-only yahoo group. All the rest are and always have been open to the public to join. Most reasonable people hopefully know by now that if they want to correspond via the internet about delicate subjects to always choose a random screen name and e-mail address that nobody knows about.. there really is no such thing as a "private" place anywhere on the internet as far as my eyes can see anyway.. Besides, online support groups like Picking Up the Pieces wouldn't be very effective in making a difference in society if we were a private-by-invite-only club. The entire goal behind our group is to reach the public and squash the negative stigmas that are associated with the various topics like herpes or human papillomavirus. As I've stated before, Picking Up the Pieces has been a very public yahoo group long before yahoo decided to add the extra RSS feed option. RSS feeds are nothing more than an extra option for folks to have that are looking for the help they so rightfully deserve to have access to no matter what the topic might be. Just my two cents, Angela :-) SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html > Hi M2, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > ar Hey you never invite me in your private-by-invite-only yahoo group! I'm a regular member of PUP (even have some of my silly looking photos on there) and also like yoshi2me.com. Al > All of my yahoo groups are searchable except for one which happens to be a > private-by-invite-only yahoo group. All the rest are and always have been > open to the public to join. The private-by-invite only group that I run is only open to people that run HELP groups. It's basically a place for HELP group facilitators to bounce ideas for meetings from one another and share feedback. Angela :) > Hey you never invite me in your private-by-invite-only yahoo group! I'm a > regular member of PUP (even have some of my silly looking photos on there) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> private-by-invite-only yahoo group. All the rest are and always have been >> open to the public to join. Hi M2 ~ > I don't know about pup specifically, but yahoo group moderators/owners > have the option of using RSS feed which, among other things, opens > them up to search engines. Even the private groups. Actually ~ I don't think that the private by invitation only yahoo groups have the RSS feed option. A group moderator or owner would have to make the yahoo group open for the public to join in order to utilize the RSS option. As for Picking Up the Pieces ~ that support group has and always will be open to the public. There is nothing different about that... the RSS feed option came along this year and I felt it was a perfect fit for the type of support group we run and it certainly hasn't changed anything.. just makes it so that more people can get the help that they are looking for without having to go through the motions of joining if they don't feel like it. > Just a thought. Yosh will probably know for sure when she comes along. I guess it's a good thing I came along when I did M2 cuz I'm about to have a baby soon! Angela :-) SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html > Hi Angela, Hiya Ar ~ > I have a question for you. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any ideas? Picking Up the Pieces has never been a private by invitation only yahoo group. Picking Up the Pieces has always been open to the public. I don't understand why you thought Picking Up the Pieces was somehow private? Angela SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html Hi Angela, Here's hoping for a speedy and pain free delivery. :) Um, I wasn't clear. Not private as in "can't be found." But private in that what goes on in the group, stays in the group. My groups are searchable if someone is looking for them and does a search. But their names won't show up in a google search along with their posts. The RSS feed was a new thing to pup. When I was there in 2003, I don't think it was available. So, having my name come up in a search on google wasn't something that was going to happen. But when you added the RSS feature, then suddenly things changed and many of us from way back weren't given an option on how to handle it, nor were we notified that there was a change happening. At least that's how I understand it. ar >> Hi Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Angela > Hi Angela, Hiya Ar ~ > Here's hoping for a speedy and pain free delivery. :) As long as I have access to that epidural I'm sure I will be A-ok. :) > Um, I wasn't clear. Not private as in "can't be found." But private in > that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > up in > a google search along with their posts. Private in the sense that you have described is not possible and never has been as long as the group is open to the public and available for anybody to join. Picking Up the Pieces has always been open to the public in this way.. therefore anything typed on the discussion board is not as private as most would assume. In order for the conversations to remain private the group would have to be set so that they are not listed and that people are unable to find them to join unless they are invited specifically by a moderator or site admin. > The RSS feed was a new thing to pup. When I was there in 2003, I don't > think it > was available. The yahoo group RSS feeds are new to yahoo groups as of this year I believe. The option to use them became available to all groups who's memberships are offered to the public and are listed in the directory. At least that is how I understand it to be.. > So, having my name come up in a search on google wasn't > something that was going to happen. But when you added the RSS feature, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > At > least that's how I understand it. The RSS feed option was discussed at one point on the message board and I did let PUP members know that we would be utitlizing this feature since PUP has and never will be a private-by-invite only group. I believe the specific setting would be to go to > Management > Group Settings: Messages > Posting Acrchive: Who can post? ie: Members, Reply-to ie: All Members, Moderation ie: New Members, Attachments ie: Remove, and Archive Options ie: Anyone. That's how I have it set for Picking Up the Pieces.. The nice part about the RSS Feed option for "public" groups is that folks now have more than one way to read and respond to messages. Help is also available to more people since not everybody has the luxery of signing up for Picking Up the Pieces. Either way ~ the public has a unique way of seeking help and information about herpes and hpv. Angela :) And folks that aren't comfortable with yahoo RSS feeds or the level of privacy are more than welcome to find their posts on any yahoo group that they have posted to and delete them. Anybody can delete their own yahoo group post if they so choose. Folks are also welcome to delete their own accounts and sign up under a screen name that nobody knows about if there is that much concern. In the end ~ people need to realize that the internet is not and never will be a private place as long as there is a way for folks to search, hack, and do whatever it is they do to find the information they are looking for.. Just something else to think about, Angela :) SignatureNetworking - What's New Webmasters? http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-dating.html http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-hpv-ssna.html http://www.yoshi2me.com/link-exchange.html http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Angela, As a group owner, I take the privacy of the people in my group very seriously. I would never glibly say to anyone that the internet is not as private as they think it is. Instead, I do whatever I can to help them stay safe and private. ar >And folks that aren't comfortable with yahoo RSS feeds or the level of >privacy are more than welcome to find their posts on any yahoo group that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Angela :) Ar ~ Picking Up the Pieces has NEVER been a private online support group. If you want to run a private online support group that is your choice and as the group's owner I would expect you to keep your forum private. Again.. Picking Up the Pieces (I repeat) has NEVER been a private online support group. And it never will be.. Angela SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html > Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >>Angela :) Angela, I own a few of my own groups as well and my groups are searchable, yet the messages are private. They do not come up in a google search. I have plenty of people who come by and join after seeing us on a yahoo search. No RSS needed. Plus, the conversations in my group are private and won't come up in a google search. I understand that people in your group are aware of the RSS. It's those of us that used to be in your group, and are no longer, who are at the disadvantage. I would prefer that my discussions in your group not come up in a google search. Can you help me remove them? ar >> Hi Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >Angela :) Ar ~ You have the right to run your groups that you created as you see fit. Nobody has told you that how you are doing it is wrong. I have the same right to run my groups as I see fit and if people don't like how they are set up they have their own personal options and choices to make. Any reasonable person that has ever joined Picking Up the Pieces knows that as long as any yahoo group is "open to the public" the messages are not and will never be "private" whether the RSS feed option is used or not. You are more than welcome to re-join Picking Up the Pieces at any time and remove any or all the messages that you ever made to our very public online support group. I have no way of knowing how to remove your messages from a search engine. There are hundreds and thousands of search engines out there that you are free to contact yourself. I know this might seem harsh to you but this is what happens when you participate on the internet in places that are not totally and completely 100% private. I repeat - Picking Up the Pieces has ALWAYS been open to the public and will remain as such. Good Luck, Angela SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html > Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] >> >>Angela :) Angela, I have no idea why you are so defensive about this. You are not understanding what I'm writing, which, you and I never seem to understand each other anyway. We keep getting the word "private" mixed up. The RSS is new, and that's what I'm talking about. Not about private groups vs. non-private groups. But the fact that posts are now on a search engine where they weren't previously. That's all. I did rejoin your group a day or two ago. I've deleted a handful of posts but am not allowed to delete the remaining ones. Which is why I was asking for your help. ar >Ar ~ > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] >>> >>>Angela :) > I have no idea why you are so defensive about this. You are not > understanding > what I'm writing, which, you and I never seem to understand each other > anyway. > We keep getting the word "private" mixed up. This is about public yahoo groups Vs. private yahoo groups and I have been trying to point out that Picking Up the Pieces has never ever been a private group. This dates back to long before the yahoo RSS feature came out for public yahoo groups. > The RSS is new, and that's what > I'm talking about. The RSS feature is newer to you and it's only available to yahoo groups that are public. Picking Up the Pieces is open to the public. Anybody can read the message board whether they choose to join the group or not. That's just the way it is.. > Not about private groups vs. non-private groups. But the > fact that posts are now on a search engine where they weren't previously. > That's all. I can't help that the posts are on the search engines. There is nothing I can do about that AR. I don't know what else I can do to make it clear? > I did rejoin your group a day or two ago. I've deleted a handful of posts > but am > not allowed to delete the remaining ones. Which is why I was asking for > your > help. You should be able to delete any and all posts that you personally wrote on Picking Up the Pieces. There is nothing I can do about removing posts that the search engines index. That is something you need to take up with the search engines. My hands are tied. Angela SignatureThe STD Resource Network - by Those Who Live It! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/ http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-h-pals.html Hi Angela, I'm not worried about the messages on the search engines. They will eventually go away when the messages go away from your group. That is not a problem. The delete button has disappeared on me and I am unable to delete the rest of my messages from your group. I'm waiting to hear back from someone as to whether or not yahoo has a limit on how many messages can be deleted at one time by someone who is not a moderator. I am also not worried about people who read the messages, member or no member, once finding your group. That is not a problem for me at all. People are checking out the group because they need herpes information. More power to them. So, that private vs not private that you are thinking of is not what I am trying to express. My concern is that I can type in a member's name and their messages show up in google. That is new and is because of the RSS. If someone who needs help with herpes reads my messages on your group, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. But if someone is stalking me (for lack of a better word) and does a google search on my name, those messages come up. That's a direct result of the RSS. Groups that do not have the RSS feature, are protected from that happening. When you decided to go to the RSS feature, you opened your members up to that lack of privacy by people who are not interested in herpes information--but instead, are gathering personal information on an individual. So, someone on google is not looking for herpes information, they are looking for me, so to speak. There's a big difference there. I hope that the above has made my point a little clearer to you. Whether the group is private on yahoo or not, is not what I have been talking about. It's whether a person's name shows up in a google search unrelated to the subject of the yahoo group. You can do whatever you want with your yahoo group, of course. But since you changed the dynamic of your group by adding the RSS, I wish to have my name removed from the messages. And that is what I am currently attempting to do. ar > I'm not worried about the messages on the search engines. They will > eventually > go away when the messages go away from your group. That is not a problem. Oh ~ I see. > The delete button has disappeared on me and I am unable to delete the rest > of my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > by > someone who is not a moderator. I'm not aware of any such limits. However, the help section or the "how to" section might provide more feedback if yahoo doesn't respond to you in a timely manner. > I am also not worried about people who read the messages, member or no > member, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > what I am > trying to express. Oh ~ I see. > My concern is that I can type in a member's name and their messages show > up in > google. That is new and is because of the RSS. Actually ~ that is because the archives are open to the public. Once you open up the archives to the public then Yahoo inserts the RSS feed. The thought process behind that is we are able to help more people AND the fact that anybody from the public can join the group and read the messages anyway made this a non issue. THAT is the point I've tried to make. > If someone who needs help with > herpes reads my messages on your group, that's fine. I don't have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of the > RSS. If somebody is stalking you on the internet OR if you are afraid somebody will stalk or harrass you on the internet then you should be doing everything in your power to use a screen name and e-mail address that doesn't point out who you are. This isn't an RSS issue ~ this is a faulty user issue. RSS or no RSS that is something you have controll over ~ your own screen name and e-mail address. Use them wisely is the lesson here.. > Groups that do not have the RSS feature, are protected from that > happening. When you decided to go to the RSS feature, you opened your > members > up to that lack of privacy by people who are not interested in herpes > information--but instead, are gathering personal information on an > individual. You are turning this into a witch hunt AR. If somebody wanted to find you badly enough they could do it without the internet. Why you have turned this into a "it's your fault because you chose the RSS option" is BEYOND me. > So, someone on google is not looking for herpes information, they are > looking > for me, so to speak. There's a big difference there. If somebody is looking for you then you need to do what is necessary to be a little more discrete about your activities on the internet. What you choose to do has absolutely nothing to do with me OR any other yahoo group owner or moderator for that matter. > I hope that the above has made my point a little clearer to you. Whether > the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > subject of > the yahoo group. The internet is NOT and NEVER will be a private place. THAT is the point I'm trying to make here and YOU need to take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. > You can do whatever you want with your yahoo group, of course. Thanks for reminding me of that.. > But since you > changed the dynamic of your group by adding the RSS, I wish to have my > name > removed from the messages. And that is what I am currently attempting to > do. I have not changed the dynamic of my yahoo group! Picking Up the Pieces was and always will be open to the public so that anybody that wanted to view messages whether they log into the group to do it or view them from their own personal feed reader ~ it's totally up to them. AND we are able to reach a larger audience this way which is the whole point of the RSS FEED on a public group in the first place. If yahoo is not helping you fast enough... e-mail the posting #'s that you need deleted and I will do that for you provided I'm not in the hospital having my baby. I will be more than happy to do it as a personal favor to you ~ AND I would LOVE to be done with this conversation all at the same time. I don't know why on Earth you didn't write to me about this AWAY from this newsgroup in the first place. But, then again.. why should I be so shocked about THAT? Angela Ar ~ I sent you a private e-mail. Hopefully that will clear up a few things. In the meantime if you need to reach me you are more than welcome to write to me via e-mail as that is the best way to reach me. I don't know when I will be able to return to the newsgroup. I have a feeling the baby will be coming soon. I do apologize for sounding a bit frustrated earlier ~ it's easy to be that way these days. Take Care, Angela Hi Angela, Thanks for the email and the help. You know, I didn't know you were pregnant until a few weeks ago - I had no idea you were so far along. I wrote you here because I didn't know any other way to reach you. I understand what you are saying about protecting yourself on the internet. But we are talking about something that was almost three years ago. Life has changed fairly drastically for me. I really never expected to be in the life situation I'm in now. I know you understand that life can take you in places you didn't expect to be. ar >Ar ~ > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Angela |
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