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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / October 2005

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how contagious?

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*selah* - 26 Oct 2005 00:38 GMT
We were wondering how contagious herpes is. For instance, can it be
transmitted through bed sheets or pillow covers used by someone who has
sores?
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 26 Oct 2005 01:39 GMT
>We were wondering how contagious herpes is. For instance, can it be
>transmitted through bed sheets or pillow covers used by someone who has
>sores?

No
It's transmitted by way of skin to skin contact. Kissing (oral
transfer) or sex (either oral or genital sex) are it's usual routes.
The virus dies almost immediatley when it leaves the skin. There's
never been a documented case of transfer from skin to inanimate object
to another person. That includes the ol' "got it from a toilet seat"
routine. That's an old wives tale.

M2
Rainrainrain - 26 Oct 2005 01:44 GMT
I was told it could not..I asked the doctor when I first found out I had them
if I could get them somehow from the sunbed..he said no...I talked to a nurse
the other day and she said they can be spread by..lets say you have a canker
sore on you mouth...lets say you touch the canker sore and do not wash youer
hands..then you go to the bathroom and touch your genitals...by wiping or
whatever..you could get them that way..

>We were wondering how contagious herpes is. For instance, can it be
>transmitted through bed sheets or pillow covers used by someone who has
>sores?
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 26 Oct 2005 02:48 GMT
>lets say you touch the canker sore and do not wash youer
>hands..then you go to the bathroom and touch your genitals...by wiping or
>whatever..you could get them that way..

There's more to it than that.
First, you're confusing Canker sores with Herpes. They're two
different things. You can't get one from the other.
But the nurse may have been talking about "Autoinnoculation".  That's
when you transfer the infection from one place on your body to
another, like you described (except from a Herpes lesion).  However,
this rarely happens after the first few weeks of infection, before
your body has built up any immunity.  After about 12-16 weeks, a
normal immune system gears up to fight any additional infection. So
autoinnoculation is a rare happening after that.

M2
Al - 26 Oct 2005 14:49 GMT
From what I understand: a coldsore is oral herpes (usually HSV-1), and a
canker sore is an oral ulcer, which is actually caused by cancer, but in a
very controlled sense. I am not sure how true this is, but I heard a canker
sore really is a form of cancer, that never develops. Canker sores are on
the inside cheek, gums and tongue. Cold sores are on the outer lips, chin,
nose and on the skin around the mouth. In some cases oral herpes is spread
to the eyes, but this is not as common.

I also understand that if your body has built up an immunity to hsv1 lets
say orally, its less likely you'll get it genitally, but not so for hsv2. If
you already have hsv2 genitally, its unlikely you'll get oral or genital
hsv1. So you can easily have hsv1 orally and then get hsv2 genitally later
in life.

I know it takes 12-16 weeks to show up in a test, but I heard in some cases
people have had it for a year WITH symptoms and it takes a whole year to
show up in a test, because their body is not producing enough antibodies.
There was a woman in here with a story like that a while back I think.

Al

> There's more to it than that.
> First, you're confusing Canker sores with Herpes. They're two
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> M2
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 26 Oct 2005 15:56 GMT
>I know it takes 12-16 weeks to show up in a test, but I heard in some cases
>people have had it for a year WITH symptoms and it takes a whole year to
>show up in a test, because their body is not producing enough antibodies.

True enough. The 12-16 weeks thing is long enough to cover most
people. For a few people it takes longer. Otoh, a few people develop
antibodies much sooner, but of course they're also covered by the
12-16 weeks rule of thumb. Development time just depends on the
individual immune system.

M2
Grant - 26 Oct 2005 18:40 GMT
Hi Al,

Canker sores and cancer are not related.  Run a google search and take a look.
Canker sores are caused by some sort of trauma to the mouth.  So, eat too much
citrus?  Canker sores.  Bite the inside of your mouth?  Canker sores.  Dental
work?  Canker sores.

Let me know if you find something that links canker and cancer.

ar

>From what I understand: a coldsore is oral herpes (usually HSV-1), and a
>canker sore is an oral ulcer, which is actually caused by cancer, but in a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>nose and on the skin around the mouth. In some cases oral herpes is spread
>to the eyes, but this is not as common.
Al - 26 Oct 2005 19:06 GMT
Okay, I'll take a look. Right now I have a canker sore on the upper mouth
near the gum area, and a coldsore about a half inch below the bottom lip and
some other sore which I think is a coldsore also and its on the lip but just
on the inner part inside the mouth.

> Hi Al,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >nose and on the skin around the mouth. In some cases oral herpes is spread
> >to the eyes, but this is not as common.
Al - 26 Oct 2005 19:16 GMT
Okay, I found out where I got it mixed up...sorry for the confusion.
"Canker" means Cancer in Latin, but its NOT the same thing in a persons
mouth. Below is some good info on Canker sores. Apparently its not a virus
like herpes, but instead a reaction from outside chemicals and stress that
causes the body to put on the ulcers.

     What are canker sores?
     Canker sores are a type of mouth ulcer. Some of the medical terms used
to refer to canker sores are "recurrent minor aphthous ulcers" and
"recurrent minor aphthous stomatitis" (thus differentiating canker sores
from other types of aphthous ulcers or aphthous stomatitis). Canker sores
are the most commonly occurring type of mouth ulcer.

      What causes canker sores?
     The precise mechanism by which canker sores form has not been
definitively determined but it is likely that their development is related
to a reaction of an individual's own immune system.

     Canker sores are thought to form when, for unexplained reasons, a
person's immune system identifies the presence of chemical molecules that it
does not recognize. The presence of these molecules activates an attack by
the immune system's lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell), somewhat like
when a person's immune system attacks a transplanted organ. The carnage of
the lymphocytes' attack on these unrecognized molecules results in the type
of mouth ulcers we term canker sores.
        Canker Sores:
       a.. Page 1    What are canker sores?
         a.. What causes canker sores?
         b.. What triggers canker sore outbreaks?

       b.. Page 2    What are the characteristics of canker sores?
         a.. What do canker sores look like?
         b.. Where do canker sores form?

       c.. Page 3    What are the treatments for canker sores?
         a.. Over-the-counter medications for canker sores.
         b.. Home remedies for canker sores.

       d.. Page 4    What are the treatments for canker sores?
         a.. Prescription medications for canker sores.

     This topic sponsored by : TheraBreath.com
     Having trouble finding SLS free products?
     TheraBreath toothpaste, toothgel, and mouthwash are SLS free.

     What triggers outbreaks of canker sores?
     Several factors that seem to trigger outbreaks of canker sores have
been identified. Any one or a combination of the following items may play a
significant role in the formation of canker sores for any one individual:

         Toothpastes and mouthwashes that contain sodium lauryl sulfate.
         Research suggests that a person's use of products that contain
sodium lauryl sulfate ("SLS"), a foaming agent found in most toothpaste and
mouthwash formulations, can cause an increased recurrence rate of canker
sores. This is probably due to a drying effect SLS has on the protective
surface of oral tissues. Once this protective layer has been compromised the
tissue underneath is more vulnerable to irritants such as acidic foods.
              Several studies have reported that participants who brushed
with a toothpaste that was SLS free found that they experienced a reduction
in the number of canker sores that formed. This reduction was found to be
81% in one study. In this same study some of the participants reported that
the canker sores that did form were less painful than those that developed
during those time periods when they had been using a toothpaste that did
contain SLS.
         Mechanical trauma.
         People will often recall some sort of trauma preceding the
formation of their canker sores. This trauma might take the form of a
self-inflicted bite, irritation from a sharp tooth, or possibly trauma from
some type of food such as a crisp chip. 38% of the participants of one study
felt that their canker sores were precipitated by trauma.
         Emotional stress / Psychic stress.
         Psychological stress has been shown to adversely affect the health
of people in a number of ways. Many people who suffer from canker sores will
frequently report that the timing of their ulcers coincide with periods of
stress.
         Nutritional deficiencies.
         Researchers have discovered that some people who suffer from
canker sores have an underlying nutritional deficiency. Some of the
nutritional deficiencies that have been correlated with the presence of
canker sores are:
           a.. Vitamin deficiencies: B1, B2, B6, B12, C
           b.. Other nutrients: zinc, folic acid, iron, selenium, calcium
         Allergies and sensitivities.
         Allergies to foods and other substances have been postulated as
being a trigger for canker sore breakouts. Any substance that comes into
contact with the person's oral tissues must be considered a potential
causative agent. If an allergy is suspected the individual might choose to
maintain a diary so to help them and their dentist identify the most likely
candidates associated with the causation of their sores. In some cases
allergy testing might be considered.
               Some of the substances identified by researchers as being
potential triggers for canker sore outbreaks are:
           a.. Cereal grains: buckwheat, wheat, oats, rye, barley, the
gluten protein found in grains
           b.. Fruits and vegetables: lemons, oranges, pineapples, apples,
figs, tomatoes, strawberries
           c.. Dairy: milk, cheeses
           d.. Other foods: nuts, chocolate, shellfish, soy, vinegar,
French mustard
           e.. Additives: cinnamonaldehyde (a flavoring agent), benzoic
acid (a preservative)
           f.. Other substances: toothpastes, mints, gums, dental
materials, metals, medications
         Hormonal changes.
         Some women have reported that they find a relationship between the
presence of canker sores and certain phases of their menstrual period. It
has also been reported that a woman may notice a remission of canker sores
during pregnancy. Neither of these observations has been adequately
documented or explained by research.
         Genetics.
         Some researchers have felt that they have identified a genetic
predisposition for canker sores. One study found that 35% of those persons
who experience canker sores have at least one parent who suffers from these
ulcers also. Another study found that 91% of identical twins both suffered
from canker sores whereas only 57% of fraternal twins did.
         Infectious agents (both bacterial and viral).
         The fact that substances characteristic of bacterial and viral
infections have been isolated from canker sores suggests that bacteria or
viruses could be causative in the formation of these mouth ulcers.
         Medical conditions.
         Several different medical conditions can be associated with the
presence of canker sores (and other forms of aphthous ulcers as well). For
those patients who experience persistent difficulties with canker sores
consideration must be given to the presence of an underlying undiagnosed
systemic disease and the need for an evaluation and testing by a physician.
              A few of the medical conditions that have been associated
with the presence of these ulcers are: Behcet's disease, neutrophil
dysfunction diseases, inflammatory bowel diseases (celiac and Crohn's), and
HIV-AIDS.
         Medications.
         Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), beta blockers,
chemotherapeutic agents, and nicorandil have each been reported as possibly
having a relationship with outbreaks of canker sores.

> Hi Al,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >nose and on the skin around the mouth. In some cases oral herpes is spread
> >to the eyes, but this is not as common.
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 26 Oct 2005 20:09 GMT
>Okay, I found out where I got it mixed up...
<snip>

Sounds very authoritative.
Where did it come from? (source)

M2
Al - 27 Oct 2005 00:14 GMT
I did a search on Google and it was the third post down. Here's the link:
http://www.animated-teeth.com/canker_sores/t1_canker_sores.htm

> Sounds very authoritative.
> Where did it come from? (source)
>
> M2
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 27 Oct 2005 00:35 GMT
hmmmm..... ok, thanks
M2

>I did a search on Google and it was the third post down. Here's the link:
>http://www.animated-teeth.com/canker_sores/t1_canker_sores.htm

>> Sounds very authoritative.
>> Where did it come from? (source)
>> M2
Angela S. - 27 Oct 2005 06:21 GMT
Hi Al ~

> and a
> canker sore is an oral ulcer, which is actually caused by cancer, but in a
> very controlled sense.

I don't believe canker sores have anything to do with cancer.

Hang in there,

Angela ;-)

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Angela S. - 27 Oct 2005 06:18 GMT
Hi Rainrainrain ~

> I talked to a nurse
> the other day and she said they can be spread by..lets say you have a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hands..then you go to the bathroom and touch your genitals...by wiping or
> whatever..you could get them that way..

Canker sores are not herpes simplex virus.

Hang in there,

Angela ;-)

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Angela S. - 27 Oct 2005 06:17 GMT
Hi *selah* ~

> We were wondering how contagious herpes is. For instance, can it be
> transmitted through bed sheets or pillow covers used by someone who has
> sores?

A good place to start reading up on how contagious herpes is would be to
check out the free herpes handbook over on www.westoverheights.com

If you read that I believe it will clear up a lot for you.

Take Care,

Angela ;-)

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