Cold Sores and a Negative HSV1 test?

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Al - 19 Oct 2005 23:21 GMT

Hi folks,

My friend claims to have had a reputable herpes blood test and to have
tested negative to HSV1 and HSV2 even though he claims to have had coldsores
as a child. Is this even possible? If it is, then does that mean that the
antibodies dropped down after a certain number of years as to not show up in
the test or does it mean that he has a lower number of antibodies than it
would need to trigger the positive reading on the test, but still has the
virus?

I heard that unlike other infections, herpes is detected by a certain number
of IgG antibodies in the blood. When the reading is at least 1.0. its a
positive reading. What about in AIDS patients where the body doesn't make
enough antibodies for a disease? Does that mean that the body could be too
weak for some reason to put out either none or too few antibodies and
therefore cause a negative reading for him? I don't think he has AIDS, but
I'm just using that as an analogy.

Thanks,

Al

Reply to this Message

Grant - 20 Oct 2005 01:51 GMT

Hi Al,

Good questions. I'll wait for others to respond because I don't have enough
info on all of that.

However, I believe that if he had cold sores as a child, then he would still
have enough antibodies in his blood test positive. I would wonder if he isn't
confused about what is a cold sore and what is a canker sore. And perhaps he
had canker sores.

ar

>Hi folks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Al

Reply to this Message

M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 20 Oct 2005 03:11 GMT

>claims to have had a reputable herpes blood test and to have
>tested negative to HSV1 and HSV2 even though he claims to have had coldsores
>as a child. Is this even possible?

First of all, no test is 100% accurate. Having said that, the newer
blood tests are not wrong often. Dang seldom in fact.
I think Ar is right. There are other possible explanations besides an
inaccurate test.

M2

Reply to this Message

Tim Fitzmaurice - 20 Oct 2005 16:35 GMT

> Hi folks,
>
> My friend claims to have had a reputable herpes blood test and to have
> tested negative to HSV1 and HSV2 even though he claims to have had coldsores
> as a child. Is this even possible?

Yes, tests have a fail rate, mucky serum or poor storage of the sample
could do it, some simply dont register. Also his claim might be
inaccurate - impetigo and coxsackie virus are two things that could
produce something that looked enough like cold sores for yer average
person to mix the two up.

> If it is, then does that mean that the
> antibodies dropped down after a certain number of years as to not show up in
> the test or does it mean that he has a lower number of antibodies than it
> would need to trigger the positive reading on the test, but still has the
> virus?

Unlikely..once infected the virus does activate periodically and so expose
the immune system repriming it, even if you dont get disease (thats the ol'
asymptomatic shedding thing. An antibody response is going to be
maintained like that.

> I heard that unlike other infections, herpes is detected by a certain number
> of IgG antibodies in the blood.

Thats pretty much how any serology for any disease goes. Also people do
actually culture Herpes virus direct, and a positive culture is still a
gold result for definitive diagnosis.

> When the reading is at least 1.0. its a
> positive reading. What about in AIDS patients where the body doesn't make
> enough antibodies for a disease?

Erm if I remember correctly in HIV infection antibody is one of the later
thing to go.....it hits the CD4 Tcells first and so control fo the immune
system and most heavily killer T cell activation.

Remember antibody is just one arm ofthe immune system....

Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568

Reply to this Message

Al - 20 Oct 2005 16:54 GMT

Well I dont know what his coldsore was like, but if it was outside the mouth
its less likely to be a canker sore. I used to always get canker sores as a
kid but don't really remember getting cold sores. Once in a while I get what
appears to be a tender area on my lip and a slight red swollen sore, but
little at all. I only seem to have my major problems in the genital area.

I don't really know what impetigo and coxsakie is. If the virus would
alsways stay in his body then the other possibility was a poor test. I asked
him if he had western blot or one of the other good ones and he said no,
that he only had a general generic lab herpes blood test.

What is the rate of fail? Is it like 20% or 10% or what? I'm just curious,
to know.

Thanks,
Al

> > Hi folks,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
> ICQ: 5178568

Reply to this Message

M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 21 Oct 2005 04:33 GMT

>What is the rate of fail? Is it like 20% or 10% or what? I'm just curious,

Western Blot is supposed to be something like 98% accurate. The other
blood tests are somewhat less accurate but not much less. Mid ninetys
for the newer blood tests I think. The culture type tests have pretty
high positive rates too. It's the negative culture results you can't
trust. Something like 50% accuracy for negative results.

M2

Reply to this Message

Angela S. - 21 Oct 2005 17:22 GMT

Hi Al ~

> Well I dont know what his coldsore was like, but if it was outside the
> mouth
> its less likely to be a canker sore.

You don't know for sure if what he had as a child was indeed a canker sore.
He may not know either. It could have been a cold sore but it also could
have been an allergic reaction to something or a bug bite. (just something
to think about)

> I used to always get canker sores as a
> kid but don't really remember getting cold sores. Once in a while I get
> what
> appears to be a tender area on my lip and a slight red swollen sore, but
> little at all. I only seem to have my major problems in the genital area.

Ar's point (I believe) is that if he had a canker sore then he doesn't have
herpes. I have had cankers sores develop inside my mouth close to the outer
parts to where my lips looked sore from the outside. So that is a
possibility too ~ he may have had a canker sore and just assumed it was a
cold sore. Many people mix the two up all the time.

> I don't really know what impetigo and coxsakie is. If the virus would
> alsways stay in his body then the other possibility was a poor test. I
> asked
> him if he had western blot or one of the other good ones and he said no,
> that he only had a general generic lab herpes blood test.

Is your friend satisfied with the testing that he had done?

If he is then there probably isn't a whole lot more you can do to convince
him differently, ya know?

Hang in there,

Angela ;-)

Signature

The STD Resource Network -
by Those Who Live It!
Sites by Angela
http://www.yoshi2me.com/
http://www.herpes-help.blogspot.com/
Sites by Gayla
http://www.herpesonline.org/
http://www.std-for-dummies.org/blog/

Reply to this Message

Angela S. - 21 Oct 2005 17:16 GMT

Hi Al ~

> My friend claims to have had a reputable herpes blood test and to have
> tested negative to HSV1 and HSV2 even though he claims to have had
> coldsores
> as a child. Is this even possible?

Cold sores and fever blisters are oral herpes. The only thing I can think of
is either he didn't have a very good herpes test done or perhaps he is
mistaken what he had as a child for cold sores. The only herpes tests that I
know of that people are considering are the ones that I've put on this page:
http://www.yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html

> If it is, then does that mean that the
> antibodies dropped down after a certain number of years as to not show up
> in
> the test or does it mean that he has a lower number of antibodies than it
> would need to trigger the positive reading on the test, but still has the
> virus?

I would question the test that he had done. Do you happen to know which one
he used?

Your friend either has herpes or he doesn't have herpes.

> I heard that unlike other infections, herpes is detected by a certain
> number
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> therefore cause a negative reading for him? I don't think he has AIDS, but
> I'm just using that as an analogy.

AIDS and testing for HIV/AIDS is completely different from Herpes and
testing for Herpes. I wouldn't even compare the two viruses if I were you
but that's just me.

If your friend is upset about his test results or he feels he needs to find
out once and for all then he could opt for the Herpes Specific Western Blot
test which is the most accurate testing AND used for research out of all of
them. That test will tell your friend once and for all if he has type-1,
type-2, both, or nothing at all. But, that's up to your friend.

Hang in there,

Angela ;-)

Signature

Instant Message Anyone?
Yahoo! Messenger - yoshi2me
http://www.yoshi2me.com/
http://www.herpes-help.blogspot.com/

Reply to this Message

Al - 21 Oct 2005 18:42 GMT

Hi Angela,

I think he had a generic herpes type 1 and 2 test done from Quest Labs, but
it wasn't Herpes Select, nor did it show numerical readout numbers. He
swears he had coldsores as a kid but no longer gets them.

Thanks,
Al

> I would question the test that he had done. Do you happen to know which one
> he used?
>
> Your friend either has herpes or he doesn't have herpes.

Reply to this Message

Angela S. - 22 Oct 2005 01:38 GMT

Well if his definition of "cold sores" is the same definition that I know of
for "cold sores" then he has oral herpes. Another way to say that is he has
herpes simplex virus type-1 orally. However, knowing this and convincing
your friend are two different things.

Have a nice weekend,

Angela ;-)

Signature

Instant Message Anyone?
Yahoo! Messenger - yoshi2me
http://www.yoshi2me.com/
http://www.herpes-help.blogspot.com/

> Hi Angela,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thanks,
> Al

Reply to this Message