Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / October 2005
This is what I have on L-Lysine
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Angela S. - 10 Oct 2005 15:38 GMT http://www.yoshi2me.com/comments/l-lysine.html
Angela
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Angela S. - 10 Oct 2005 15:45 GMT American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy Copyright (C) 2001 American Society of Health-System Pharmacists, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Lysine for management of herpes labialis [Alternative Therapies] Tomblin, Frankie A. Jr. Pharm.D.; Lucas, Kristy H. Pharm.D. Degree Candidate (Tomblin) School of Pharmacy; tomblin-fa@usa.net Clinical Assistant Professor (Lucas) Schools of Pharmacy and Medicine; Departments of Clinical Pharmacy and Internal Medicine West Virginia University; 3110 MacCorkle Avenue; Charleston, WV 25304
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Lysine is one of 10 essential amino acids required for human nutrition.1 Dietary sources of lysine include meat, cheese, yogurt, brewer's yeast, legumes, and wheat germ.2 This article examines the literature in an attempt to determine the validity of claims that lysine is effective in reducing the frequency, duration, and severity of outbreaks of herpes labialis (cold sores) in patients prone to frequent recurrences.
Use. Lysine is marketed for use in the prevention and treatment of outbreaks of herpes, particularly herpes labialis. Although not curative, lysine is advertised to decrease the frequency, severity, and duration of cold sores. Lysine has also been used to aid in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis, heroin intoxification, and metabolic alkalosis and to increase the absorption and decrease the elimination of calcium.
Pharmacology. Herpes simplex virus (HSV) is highly dependent on the amino acid arginine for reproduction.3 Griffith et al.4 reported that high intracellular concentrations of lysine (50 ([mu]g/mL [342 [mu]M]) inhibit reproduction of HSV in tissue cultures by acting as a competitive inhibitor of arginine. However, Park and colleagues 5 found that alysine concentration of 200 [mu]M did not impede replication. The contradictory findings of these two studies may be due to the different concentrations of lysine achieved intracellularly by different tissue types (the Griffith et al. study used Green monkey kidney cells, and the Park et al. study used trigeminal ganglion cells from albino mice). Thein and Hurt's study 6 of 26 volunteers with frequent recurrences of herpes labialis showed that serum lysine concentrations greater than 165 [mu]M (24 mg/mL) were necessary to significantly decrease the recurrence rate. However, the exact serum lysine concentration required is controversial. FIGURE
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Pharmacokinetics. Extensive pharmacokinetic data for lysine are lacking. Lysine is transported across cellular membranes by two transport systems.7 Studies suggest that lysine is rapidly transported into muscle tissue 8 and that lysine concentrations in muscle exceed those of other amino acids, especially at five to seven hours after ingestion.9 Free lysine monohydrochloride is absorbed from dietary sources at the same rate as lysine, so supplementation would be likely to be effective in correcting lysine deficiency.10 Lysine is the most highly conserved amino acid. This allows humans who consume a nitrogen-balanced diet (a diet consisting of 1 g of protein per pound of body weight daily) to have very low lysine requirements.11 Catabolism occurs primarily in the liver.
Clinical studies. Lysine's precise role in the prevention and treatment of herpes labialis outbreaks is unknown. Of seven randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies reviewed, six showed lysine to be effective for decreasing the frequency of outbreaks. Only two of the six studies found lysine to decrease the severity or duration of an outbreak, however.
The earliest study reviewed was conducted by Milman et al.12 in 1978 to determine the efficacy of lysine in reducing the duration and severity of lesions in patients with recurrent herpes labialis. At the screening visit, patients were randomized to receive L-lysine monohydrochloride or placebo. The number of patients assigned to each group was not reported. The patients were given 11 500-mg tablets, along with a questionnaire for self-reporting the duration and severity of lesions. The patients were instructed to take two tablets at the onset of symptoms and one tablet each morning and evening thereafter until the 11 tablets were gone. They were also told to record the duration and severity of their outbreak on the questionnaire. Follow-up visits occurred only upon the completion of each 11-tablet treatment course. With each follow-up visit, a new packet containing 11 tablets and a questionnaire were distributed. The number of visits served as a surrogate marker of the number of outbreaks occurring during the 48-week study period.
Of the 198 patients accepted for study participation, 79 were excluded because they did not return their first questionnaire or returned it incomplete. Information from the remaining 119 patients was included in the analysis. The total number of patients using the first 11 tablets (initial treatment) was 53 and 51 in the lysine and placebo groups, respectively. The total number of treatments needed in each group was 97 (lysine) and 93 (placebo). The median recurrence-free interval was 57 and 53 days for the lysine and placebo groups, respectively. No statistical analysis was reported, but the study showed no apparent difference in the duration or severity of herpes labialis outbreaks between lysine therapy and placebo.
A second trial conducted by the same authors looked at the possible prophylactic effect of lysine on outbreaks of herpes labialis.13 This study included data from 65 patients initially receiving either L-lysine monohydrochloride 500 mg (n = 31) or placebo (n = 34) twice daily. After 12 weeks, patients were crossed over without interruption to the alternative agent. The patients used a questionnaire to record the duration and course of outbreaks. Seventy-nine patients were admitted to the study, but after 14 (unexplained) withdrawals and exclusions, 65 patients remained for analysis. An intention-to-treat analysis was not completed. There was no difference in the number of recurrences during lysine treatment (91) and during placebo treatment (104) and no difference in the frequency or severity of new lesions. Statistical analysis was not reported.
A 1984 study found conflicting results regarding the efficacy of long-term lysine supplementation and dietary arginine reduction for decreasing the frequency of herpes labialis outbreaks.6 The study also examined the relationship between serum lysine and arginine concentrations and the frequency of lesions. This crossover study compared L-lysine monohydrochloride 1000 mg/day with placebo. Group A (n = 15) received lysine for the first six months, followed immediately by six months of placebo. Group B (n = 11) received placebo followed by lysine. During the first six-month period there was no significant difference in the number of lesions between the two groups (2.6 versus 2.8 lesions per patient). However, during the second six months the lysine recipients had significantly fewer new lesions than the placebo recipients (1.8 versus 2.9 lesions per patient) (p pn = 11) received L-lysine monohydrochloride 1248 mg (four 312-mg tablets) per day for six months and then placebo for six months without interruption. Group 2 (n = 9) received the same regimen with placebo first, then lysine. Group 3 (n = 11) received lysine 624 mg (two 312-mg tablets) per day for six months and then placebo for six months. Group 4 (n = 10) received the same regimen with placebo first, then lysine. Of the 47 patients enrolled, 6 withdrew (1 moved and 5 were eliminated for noncompliance). No intention-to-treat analysis was performed. This study found no significant difference between lysine and placebo for either dosage with respect to healing time. However, the frequency of outbreaks was significantly lower with lysine 1248 mg/day (0.89 outbreak per patient per 24-week period) than with placebo (1.56 outbreaks) (p n = 16) or mannitol capsules (n = 15). The patients took two capsules twice a day for three months (1000 mg/day). Eighteen of the patients then continued taking one capsule every morning and two every evening for a total of 750 mg per day for three more months; the other 13 subjects withdrew for unexplained reasons. The lysine group had fewer recurrences than predicted while taking 1000 mg/day (17 recurrences versus 42.6 predicted). The placebo group also had fewer recurrences (26 recurrences versus 33.0 predicted). During the second three-month period (750 mg/day or placebo) there was no significant difference between actual and predicted recurrences (17 recurrences versus 16.8 predicted in the treatment group and 16 recurrences versus 21.8 predicted in the placebo group). The clinical significance of the results is unclear, since this small study did not compare actual recurrences with lysine against actual recurrences with placebo. Also, the researchers did not report their method of predicting recurrences.
Griffith and colleagues 17 conducted a trial of L-lysine monohydrochloride 1000 mg three times daily for the prevention and treatment of recurrent symptoms of HSV infection (either genital or orofacial herpes lesions). Of the 136 subjects who volunteered, 22 were excluded because they reported fewer than two outbreaks in the six months before the study. The remaining 114 subjects were randomized to take lysine 1000 mg three times daily (n = 62) or placebo (n = 52). The patients were asked to record the number, duration, and severity of outbreaks. At six months, complete data were available for 34 lysine-treated patients and 25 given placebo. Seven patients were excluded from the lysine group because of concomitant acyclovir use. An intention-to-treat analysis was not performed. The number of outbreaks, compared with expectations based on the patients' experiences in the previous year, was smaller in the lysine group than in the placebo group (p p p Dosage. Lysine is usually given orally in the form of a tablet or capsule. Dosages used for HSV infection in the studies reviewed ranged from 250 mg every morning and 500 mg every night to 1000 mg four times a day.16,20
Adverse effects. Six to 10 g of lysine is consumed daily in the average adult diet. Thus, it has been hypothesized that supplementation with 3000 mg/day will not cause serious adverse effects.11 Information on lysine's safety is limited but serious adverse effects have been reported. In one case, a 44-year-old woman developed Fanconi's syndrome, manifested as tubulointerstitial nephritis, after taking 3000 mg of lysine daily for five years.21 Abdominal pain and diarrhea occurred in patients who received 10 g/day for five days.22 Other reports either do not provide safety information or state that no adverse effects were observed.
Contraindications. Lysine supplementation is contraindicated in patients with renal disease or hepatic impairment.2 Patients with renal or hepatic disease may not be able to eliminate the large amounts of nitrogen produced upon breakdown of the supplemented amino acid. No data support the use of lysine in children or in pregnant or breast-feeding women.
Interactions. Studies indicate that concomitant use of lysine and calcium can increase the absorption and decrease the elimination of calcium.23 Large doses of lysine have been reported to increase the toxicity of aminoglycosides by an unknown mechanism.2
Conclusion. Lysine's efficacy for herpes labialis may lie more in prevention than treatment. Studies do not support the use of lysine for decreasing the severity or duration of outbreaks. Most patients tolerate the supplement well. Larger trials are needed to conclusively determine lysine's role in the treatment of herpes labialis.
Frankie A. Tomblin, Jr., Pharm.D.
Degree Candidate
School of Pharmacy; tomblin-fa@usa.net
Kristy H. Lucas, Pharm.D.
Clinical Assistant Professor
Schools of Pharmacy and Medicine; Departments of Clinical Pharmacy and Internal Medicine
West Virginia University; 3110 MacCorkle Avenue; Charleston, WV 25304
1. Hansen M, ed. Pathophysiology: foundations of disease and clinical intervention. Philadelphia: Saunders; 1998:51.
2. Lysine. In: Burnham TH, Short RM, eds. The review of natural products. St. Louis: Facts and Comparisons; 1998.
3. Tankersley RW. Amino acid requirements of herpes simplex virus in human cells. J Bacteriol. 1964; 87:609-13.
4. Griffith RS, DeLong DC, Nelson JD. Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to herpes simplex growth in tissue culture. Chemotherapy. 1981; 27:209-13. Bibliographic Links
5. Park NH, Pavan-Langston D, Declercq E. Effect of acyclovir, bromovinyldeoxyuridine, vi-darabine, and L-lysine on latent ganglionic herpes simplex virus in vitro. Am J Med. 1982; 73(1A):151-4. Bibliographic Links
6. Thein DJ, Hurt WC. Lysine as a prophylactic agent in the treatment of recurrent herpes simplex labialis. Oral Surg. 1984; 58:659-66.
7. Christensin HN. Relevance of transport across the plasma membrane to the interpretation of the plasma amino acid pattern. In: Leathem JH, ed. Protein nutrition and free amino acid patterns. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers Univ. Free Press; 1968:40-52.
8. Longenecker JB, Hause NL. Relationship between plasma amino acids and composition of the ingested protein. Arch Biochem Biophys. 1959; 84:46-59.
9. Uhe AM, Collier GR, O'Dea K. A comparison of the effects of beef, chicken and fish protein on satiety and amino acid profiles in lean male subjects. J Nutr. 1992; 122:467-72. Bibliographic Links
10. Flodin NW. Lysine supplementation of cereal foods: a retrospective. J Am Coll Nutr. 1993; 12:486-500. Bibliographic Links
11. Flodin NW. The metabolic roles, pharmacology, and toxicology of lysine. J Am Coll Nutr. 1997; 16:7-21. Bibliographic Links
12. Milman N, Scheibel J, Jessen O. Failure of lysine treatment in recurrent herpes simplex labialis. Lancet. 1978; 2:942. Letter.
13. Milman N, Scheibel J, Jessen O. Lysine prophylaxis in recurrent herpes simplex labialis: a double-blind, controlled crossover study. Acta Derm Venereol. 1980; 60:85-7. Bibliographic Links
14. McCune MA, Perry HO, Muller SA et al. Treatment of recurrent herpes simplex infections with L-lysine monohydrochloride. Cutis. 1984; 34:366-73. Bibliographic Links
15. DiGiovanna JJ, Blank H. Failure of lysine in frequently recurrent herpes simplex infections. Arch Dermatol. 1984; 120:48-51. Bibliographic Links
16. Simon CA, Van Melle GD, Ramelet AA. Reply. (Failure of lysine in frequently recurrent herpes simplex infection.) Arch Dermatol. 1985; 121:167-8. Letter.
17. Griffith RS, Walsh EW, Myrmel KH et al. Success of L-lysine therapy in frequently recurrent herpes simplex infection. Dermatologica. 1987; 175:183-90. Bibliographic Links
18. Black JM, Matassarin-Jacobs E. Medical-surgical nursing: clinical management for continuity of care. 5th ed. Philadelphia: Saunders; 1997:667-2211.
19. Walsh DE, Griffith RS, Behforooz A. Subjective response to lysine in the therapy of herpes simplex. J Antimicrob Chemother. 1983; 12:489-96. Bibliographic Links
20. Wright EF. Clinical effectiveness of lysine in treating recurrent aphthous ulcers and herpes labialis. Gen Dent. 1994; 42(1):40-2. Bibliographic Links
21. Lo JC, Glenn MC, Rennke H et al. Fanconi's syndrome and tubulointerstitial nephritis in association with L-lysine ingestion. Am J Kidney Dis. 1996; 28:614-7. Bibliographic Links
22. Lysine. Natural medicines comprehensive database. www.naturaldatabase.com (accessed 2000 Feb 17).
23. Civitelli R, Villareal DT, Agnusdei D et al. Dietary L-lysine and calcium metabolism in humans. Nutrition. 1992; 8:400-5. Bibliographic Links
Section Description
The Alternative Therapies column features short reviews of herbals and other "nutraceuticals" for which there is some scientific evidence of effectiveness. The contributing editor for Alternative Therapies is Joseph Pepping, Pharm.D., Complementary Medicine Consultant, Kaiser Permanente, Honolulu, HI. Readers are invited to send ideas for the column to AJHP at 7272 Wisconsin Avenue, Bethesda, MD 20814 (301-657-3000) or ajhp@ashp.org.
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Angela S. - 10 Oct 2005 16:00 GMT If you log into Mescape and do a Medscape search on the keywords "lysine for herpes" you will bring up more information.
Angela ;-)
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Diva - 11 Oct 2005 18:42 GMT If you read the CPS, you'll find that most heavy-duty pharmaceuticals have similar results in clinical trials vis a vis the placebo effect.
The nice people who make Zovirax et al don't want us using l-lysine, they want us to take their product which is a synthetic version thereof!
Angela S. - 11 Oct 2005 19:45 GMT Uh ~ please show me clinical studies that will prove that L-Lysine reduces asymptomatic shedding by 95%, reduces intensity and frequency of outbreaks for patients that have genital herpes type-2, and reduces transmission by 50%.
I have nothing against L-Lysine if somebody out there (anybody at this point) would show me the proof that L-Lysine was made specifically to treat herpes simplex virus.
The summary of lysine studies which you can read for yourself on medscape speak for themselves.
You are trying to copare apples to oranges,
Angela
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> If you read the CPS, you'll find that most heavy-duty pharmaceuticals > have similar results in clinical trials vis a vis the placebo effect. > > The nice people who make Zovirax et al don't want us using l-lysine, > they want us to take their product which is a synthetic version thereof! Diva - 11 Oct 2005 21:49 GMT I'm sceptical of anything coming from the pharmaceutical industry since learning that the herpes paranoia in the 80's was precipitated by a drug company marketing strategy!
L-lysine is a naturally occuring amino acid, and your own evidence demonstrates that the placebo factor is not significantly different than that of most prescription drugs (including acyclovir).
You're entitled to be "from Missouri", but in a world where doctors routinely administer shock treatents to psych patients without a clue as to how badly they will be adversely affected, I'm all for exploring the source approach, rather than the reprocessed artificially coloured god-knows-what added pharmacology approach. Most medicines came from nature, not the lab!
Angela S. - 12 Oct 2005 00:23 GMT Hi Diva ~
> I'm sceptical of anything coming from the pharmaceutical industry since > learning that the herpes paranoia in the 80's was precipitated by a > drug company marketing strategy! I would love to read more about this. Do you have anything I can look up? Also, just because there is negativity in the media and inaccuracies out there via some companies doesn't mean that all companies are bad. You are certainly entitled to make your decisions based on whatever you'd like. For the purpose of keeping this discussion straight there is no proof that L-Lysine does anything for herpes simplex virus. Furthermore, if I were leaning more towards a "natural" approach and were looking to go with L-Lysine I certainly wouldn't take supplements ~ I would be leaning more towards dietary changes since L-Lysine can be found in foods.
> L-lysine is a naturally occuring amino acid, and your own evidence > demonstrates that the placebo factor is not significantly different > than that of most prescription drugs (including acyclovir). I am making the argument of weighing herpes fighting drugs such as Famvir, Valtrex, and Acylcor VS. L-Lysine which is not a herpes fighting anything. You can't compare apples to oranges. Proven herpes antiviral medications have been proven to reduce asymptomatic shedding, frequency and duration of outbreaks, as well as transmission to a non-infected partner.
> You're entitled to be "from Missouri", I'm not from Missouri. I live in Omaha, Nebraska. I'm from Texas originally but have done extensive travel all over the world due to the fact that my father was in the Army when I was growing up. (Off Topic: I wouldn't change that experience for the world.)
> but in a world where doctors > routinely administer shock treatents to psych patients without a clue > as to how badly they will be adversely affected, I'm all for exploring > the source approach, rather than the reprocessed artificially coloured > god-knows-what added pharmacology approach. Most medicines came from > nature, not the lab! Again ~ you are falling off topic. Your fears are over-riding your sensibilities as far as comparing apples to oranges.
Hang in there ~ you are certainly entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. But, until somebody can show me that L-Lysine does the same exact things that the clinically proven herpes antivirals do I will remain a skeptic of your input as you are of mine.
Feel free to contact real live herpes research experts who work every day to find a cure for this virus. They are out there if you take the time to look them up and read some real literature about herpes. Debate this with them instead of taking my word for it.
Angela
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Grant - 12 Oct 2005 03:16 GMT >>> You're entitled to be "from Missouri", > >I'm not from Missouri. I live in Omaha, Nebraska. I'm from Texas originally >but have done extensive travel all over the world due to the fact that my >father was in the Army when I was growing up. (Off Topic: I wouldn't change >that experience for the world.) Hi Angela,
In case you missed the reference, Missouri's slogan is the "show me state." And you keep asking for references, etc. So, therefore...you are entitled to be "from Missouri." That's what Diva was alluding to.
ar
Angela S. - 12 Oct 2005 04:38 GMT Hi Ar,
I would probably know that if I were from Missouri ~ but like I said I live in Omaha, Nebraska and I'm originally from Texas.
Angela ;-)
>>>> You're entitled to be "from Missouri", >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ar Grant - 12 Oct 2005 12:42 GMT >Hi Ar, > >I would probably know that if I were from Missouri ~ but like I said I live >in Omaha, Nebraska and I'm originally from Texas. > >Angela ;-) Hi Angela,
I'm from California. Didn't you learn that stuff in school? I guess not.
ar
Angela S. - 12 Oct 2005 14:43 GMT lol ~ there are more important things to learn in school ~ don't you think? lol
Angela ;-)
 Signature Instant Message Anyone? Yahoo! Messenger - yoshi2me http://www.yoshi2me.com/ http://www.herpes-help.blogspot.com/
>>Hi Ar, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ar Grant - 13 Oct 2005 01:05 GMT >lol ~ there are more important things to learn in school ~ don't you think? >lol > >Angela ;-) No. I thought that was the end all, be all.
ar
Diva - 13 Oct 2005 18:41 GMT A couple years ago I came really close to picking up the phone when Sally Jesse had this woman on who was suing her husband for something like a million or two because he had given her herpes. I could see it if he gave her HIV, or even if she had wound up with cervical cancer from HPV, but that's the kind of b.s. that makes it so difficult for those of us with this stupid virus to be open about it! I was using this phone dating service once, and in my ad I said that I wasn't looking for casual sex cuz I have herpes - the system administrator pulled my ad, telling me I couldn't say that word! Give me a freaking break - it's that kind of head-in-the-sand mentality that has resulted in so many non-drug-using heterosexuals contracting HIV!!! In my humble opinion, anyway. Why is it so hard for us to talk about sex when most of us spend so much of our time thinking about it, trying to get it, doing it, buying and/or selling it.......
Angela S. - 13 Oct 2005 21:42 GMT I know EXACTLY what you are talking about Diva. It's frustrating.. isn't it? A friend of mine signed up for the Perfect Match affiliate program recently and had placed a couple of Perfect Match ads on her web site. Well her site happens to be about herpes simplex virus (www.herpesonline.org)... well low and behold Perfect Match had contacted her and told her to pull the affiliate ads down because they didn't feel it was appropriate because of the content on her site. Well as you probably can already tell there is absolutely nothing wrong with the content on her site. It was probably some Iggert sitting behind his desk in front of his computer that decided because the site was about "herpes" she couldn't have the ads up. Likewise ~ I recently tried to sign up for the new yahoo networking program. This one is similar to google adsense ~ anyway to make a long story short they wrote to me and told me that the reason I was declined was because my site had "sensitive" material on it. (www.yoshi2me.com) What a bunch of baloney, eh?
It's treatment like this that makes me even more determined not to be ashamed of talking about it or of saying the word herpes. What I decided to do was take the information and blog about it: http://workathomemomblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/dont-count-on-yahoo-publisher-netw ork.html http://workathomemomblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/i-believe-yahoo-does-violate-its-o wn.html
I believe that we (the folks that have herpes and know it) have a responsibility to do everything we can to combat the negative stigma that is associated with this std. Anyway ~ your note here got me thinking about what's been happening lately and it makes me even more determined to keep on keeping on ~ ya know?
Angela ;-)
>A couple years ago I came really close to picking up the phone when > Sally Jesse had this woman on who was suing her husband for something [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > when most of us spend so much of our time thinking about it, trying to > get it, doing it, buying and/or selling it....... Al - 12 Oct 2005 04:52 GMT Wow! That one went right over my head! I'm from RI, the Ocean State...luckily there's little pun to be used with RI other than those who think its part of New York! :o)
> Hi Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ar Tim Fitzmaurice - 12 Oct 2005 16:13 GMT > I'm sceptical of anything coming from the pharmaceutical industry since > learning that the herpes paranoia in the 80's was precipitated by a > drug company marketing strategy! You've cited one report about a person who then got arrested for blackmail (yes they handed cash over to the person but thats generally how you catch them). That in itself screams conspiracy theory to me without getting some serious details - Ive seen at least one similar website which makes the same sort of claims so might be the same individual...the detailed reading of that site was just depressing in terms of how much was spun out of nothing. So without actually having the details made available it does seem rather suspect to me - and thats without taking any context of what was happening in the field at the time.
As to that context, the above statement is contradicted by my experience in the field whereby the people I have met who were working before that time were making waves about HSV and herpes incidence before the 80s. Also a drug company is nto going to be able to pull this off in the UK where they cannot market direct to the public for anything on prescription, the scientific community is (like anywhere) going to pressurise the company for data because if there's one thing guaranteed to get you a hard time at a conference its being a pharmaceutical company man, the politicians were desperate to lower cost in the NHS etc etc and yet the opinion about where herpes was going was the same.
Add to that that the other drug companies with just as much cash would have (within such a concept) had just as much need to shut down the hysteria and the fact that the minute someone proves lysine works is the moment those companies start the production line and sell it by the bucket - its not as if it isnt pharmaceutical companies making it now then again the structure falls apart.
So I have to say I disagree with the idea that the hysteria in the 80s was driven by the drug company with that drug - its not their biggest seller either so they would have been much better off pushing something else, the driving idea and warnings were coming equally as strongly from outside of the drug companies and outside of their influence.
Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 12 Oct 2005 17:18 GMT >driving idea and warnings were coming equally as strongly from >outside of the drug companies and outside of their influence. Like Time magazine and their "news media" competitors who are always out to attract the attention of as many magazine buyers as possible, even if they have to spin the things into mass hysteria, and irregardless of innocent bystanders (herpsters) who are run over in the process. But..... that's the news biz.
M2
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