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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / April 2009

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Insomnia

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Waterspider - 28 Mar 2009 01:28 GMT
Reading the posts on sleep (or lack thereof) with hep c and also after
treatment, I feel right at home.

I have a bitch of a time getting to sleep at night, toss and turn and, when
I do get to sleep, wake up every few hours. I've tried over-the-counter
sleep aids, herbal teas, benzodiazepams and even smoking weed. They work,
sort of, but leave me groggy the next morning and too quick to be dependent
upon them. So I don't take anything and can't remember the last time I had a
decent night's sleep.

Always blamed the hep c and the treatment, but now I'm starting to wonder.
You see, I'm over 50. Lately I've noticed, in conversation with people my
age and older, that everyone seems to either have the same complaint or
comments that they don't need as much sleep as they did when they were
younger. Women blame menopause, men blame not being as physically active,
but do you suppose it might be a completely normal and natural part of the
aging process?

I'm interested in hearing your comments about this.

Waterspider (sleepless in north-of-Seattle)
Dwight - 28 Mar 2009 07:44 GMT
> Reading the posts on sleep (or lack thereof) with hep c and also after
> treatment, I feel right at home.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Waterspider (sleepless in north-of-Seattle)

I can't even remember a time when I used to fall asleep easily and slept
through the night. I tried Ambien, but found that I was not only sleep
walking I would even write posts that were off in left field somewhere.
I would also cook and eat and not remember it, the mess in the kitchen
was the only clue. I do have a script for lunesta that I take when I
absolutely have to get some sleep, but am afraid of getting too attached.

Well, I wrote the first paragraph about 4 hours ago. I'm tired and tried
to fall asleep for the last hour and a half with no luck. I've been up
for about 21 hours and really want to fall asleep. I gave in a took a
lunesta and hopefully in about 45 minutes I will be sound asleep. It's a
little late, but I'm tired of tossing and turning and I just want to go
to sleep. Hope this last  paragraph makes sense and helps in some way to
your question WS.

Dwight (sleepless in Texas, but not for much longer)
Thip - 28 Mar 2009 12:54 GMT
> Reading the posts on sleep (or lack thereof) with hep c and also after
> treatment, I feel right at home.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> quick to be dependent upon them. So I don't take anything and can't
> remember the last time I had a decent night's sleep.

I've had the same problem most of my life. I used to be a very light
sleeper, then when I started having babies and sleep was the most valuable
commodity in the world, I learned to sleep very hard in snatches.  As time
went on, I found I could not shut off my brain, and the result was I was
tired almost all the time.  I can't blame it on menopause since it's been a
lifelong problem, and besides, I had a total hysterectomy years ago.

The ONLY thing that has ever worked for me consistently is demanding
physical exercise, several hours in the afternoon.  Of course, that's not
always practical so I end up counting flowers on the wall most nights.  The
Restoril the doctor gave me helps without leaving me groggy, but I just wish
I could go to bed, read for half an hour, and pass out.
dBo - 28 Mar 2009 13:53 GMT
Oh boy I could write the book on this topic!! As I've mentioned I was
diagnosed with Sleep Apena about 7 years ago and have worn a CPAP at
night since....I had no idea after years of being a single mom, until
I finally met the man in my life today who was freaking out over the
fact that I not only snored terribly but had wierd patterns where I
would snore snore snore then just stop breathing, then give a huge
gasp and start the pattern again....my kids as teenagers used to say
to me sometimes in the morning "Boy, Mom, Can you RIP em..."

I have never had real problems with falling asleep but constantly
waking up and what is called Early Morning Awakening- go right to
sleep at night but wake in the wee hours unable to back go to sleep.
The old brain does not shut off even when I do sleep. I dream
constantly and vividly, full length feature movies. I act out my
dreams - physically thrashing tossing my self across the bed and so
on. I talk in my sleep, yell in my sleep, wake myself up asking "did I
just say that out loud?"
I cannot recall ever having had what I would call a "pleasant dream"
they are always total nightmares (escaping a mall shooter) to at least
mental/emotional anxiety, often cursing/yelling/screaming at people in
my sleep - gee and I am such a happy pleasant person in my waking
hours!!! I have also been know to suffer episodes of what I believe it
Sleep Paralysis - that is where the body is still in the "paralyzed"
state it is supposed to be in during "dream states" but the mind is
waking up, I can't move, I'm terrified, trying to scream for help
until I finally reach that point and wake up screaming "help help
help". I talk about work and explain computer processes in my sleep to
unknown people.... and so on.

I''ve done a lot of research of sleep disorders, trying to understand,
but it doens't change anything, anyway. I find that the things I watch
on TV, hear in the news, read in books, goes on in my daily life comes
right back during to subconscious during the night in the form of
dreams. We joke about it alot - Honey says "Baby I don't think I
should let you watch this!"

Won't try to blame it on menopause or anything, it has been that way
for as long as I can remember. I am 56 and can remember still crazy
dreams I had as a teenager in all detail...

Thip, my honey suggests the same thing you say makes a
difference....that I need more exercise on a regular basis. I am such
a couch potato, book reader. Maybe he is right....He sleep like a baby
flat on his back, arms at his sides, and I envy people with that
abilty. I toss turn and roll all night.

Deb (Not necessarily Sleepless but lost as hell in Dreamland)
Thip - 28 Mar 2009 14:57 GMT
> Sleep Paralysis - that is where the body is still in the "paralyzed"
> state it is supposed to be in during "dream states" but the mind is
> waking up, I can't move, I'm terrified, trying to scream for help
> until I finally reach that point and wake up screaming "help help
> help". I talk about work and explain computer processes in my sleep to
> unknown people.... and so on.

Oh boy can I relate to that one!  It's been years since I've had an episode
and I'd forgotten.  My father had the same thing--it's REALLY terrifying.  I
remember one time I was on the sofa--and I knew I was on the sofa even
though I was "asleep"--and I actually tried to order my body to throw itself
onto the floor.  Weird weird weird.
Cactus Jammies - 28 Mar 2009 15:19 GMT
Careful with fighting sleep paralysis, that is heart attack territory.  Just
breathe and relax, let your brain remember it is awake so you don't strain
your heart when you try to get up. Without the necessary connection between
brain and the signal it sends to the heart, you could succumb to one of the
most common causes of heart attack, the waking and rising.

cactus jammies
--------------------------------

>> Sleep Paralysis - that is where the body is still in the "paralyzed"
>> state it is supposed to be in during "dream states" but the mind is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> the sofa even though I was "asleep"--and I actually tried to order my body
> to throw itself onto the floor.  Weird weird weird.
dBo - 28 Mar 2009 15:50 GMT
Interesting CJ - perhaps you meant NOT waking and rising ;)

Yes sometimes in these "dreams" when I am trying to yell for help, I
find myself actually thinking in the dream "keep your voice low, you
can't scream if it comes out as a shriek...." so on some level, even
in the dreams I am aware these days of what is going on...almost as if
I know I am in a dream and am teaching myself subconsciously how to
deal with the terror...

My signifiant other has said for a long time that he firmly believes
it is related to lack of oxygen getting to my brain, and my brain's
way of yelling "hey wake up and BREATHE!". I'm not sure Im convinced
of that. Even when I had the sleep study and they found I was having
30 mid range apneas an hour, and said "honey you just ain't sleeping! -
every time you get to this stage, you have an episode and you wake up"
the testing did NOT show significant drops in oxygen levels in my
system. But who knows. At least with the CPAP I don't get up in the
morning and almost fall asleep at the wheel driving to work "after a
night's sleep"

Yeah it concerns me. Know lots of other people in the same boat.
People who have died in their sleep the same way.
Whatever. Ain't none of us getting out of this alive, its just a
matter of when/where/how. I may have Slain the Dragon, but something
else will come along. Eventually there will be a day when I don't come
up the "Winner". So I just keep trying to live life the best I can day
by day and do the best I can with each given day. All we can do.
otk355@hotmail.com - 30 Mar 2009 13:55 GMT
> Reading the posts on sleep (or lack thereof) with hep c and also after
> treatment, I feel right at home.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Waterspider (sleepless in north-of-Seattle)

Waterspider,
Have you tried lunesta for sleep? It saved me thru my last 72 week
treatment.Only down side is a crappy taste in your mouth but it is not
habit forming.
john
topcat - 04 Apr 2009 19:16 GMT
> I have a bitch of a time getting to sleep at night, toss and turn and, when
> I do get to sleep, wake up every few hours. I've tried over-the-counter
> sleep aids, herbal teas, benzodiazepams and even smoking weed. They work,
> sort of, but leave me groggy the next morning and too quick to be dependent
> upon them. So I don't take anything and can't remember the last time I had a
> decent night's sleep.

Spider,  I can relate big time, and I too am starting to wonder if the
tx. didn't do some sort of metabolic, or neurological damage.  I
finished tx. at end of Feb.  But I was hooked on the damn vicodin and
the sleeping pills. It took me a month to taper off, then a week ago I
stopped and went thru the last week of hell going thru withdrawals,
from both the benzo's and the norco.  I had my first good night sleep,
without pills of any kind 2 nights ago.  then last night, I didn't
sleep a wink for some reason.  Somebody told me that it takes time for
your body to reset it's sleep cycle off drugs.  I'm hoping that will
work for me, but I don't know how long I can do this routine and hold
my job looking like a zombie.  At this point, I am committed to
staying off all sleep aids and hoping my sleeping patterns return to
normal.  I'm trusting my body can do what it's supposed to do, because
I never had trouble sleeping before treatment.  my sympathies to
fellow sufferers.   joe
Sara - 05 Apr 2009 05:03 GMT
> > I have a bitch of a time getting to sleep at night, toss and turn and, when
> > I do get to sleep, wake up every few hours. I've tried over-the-counter
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> I never had trouble sleeping before treatment.  my sympathies to
> fellow sufferers.   joe

I found I had to really cut back on caffeine... even a little bit too
late in the day will keep me up all night, making what little sleep I
might get sporadic and not at all restful.   I cut out the caffeine
altogether for a long time, but for the past few months I've been back
to my morning cuppa (actually I'm hooked on the frozen coffee drinks
from starbucks or tim hortons....  or I'll flavor my home made brew
and pour it over lots of ice, it's become my daily "treat".)

For quite a while I found myself taking xanax a couple times a week to
get a good night's sleep, but that leaves me a bit hungover the next
day so I don't like doing it much.   I do find that playing a computer
game or reading at night is a good way to get sleepy, and most nights
I am able to fall asleep fairly easily now -- though I never seem to
sleep all that well and am up every couple of hours to use the
bathroom or get a drink of water.

I did get tested for sleep apnea a few years ago and they put me on
the cpap machine --but I couldn't use it, I'd wake up feeling  like I
was suffocating,  and I couldn't breathe right while it was running.
another doctor told me that my nasal passages are very narrow and that
no machine was going to be effective for me.   who knows.  I do sleep
more soundly and for longer periods when I take the xanax -- I think
it slows down the thinking process enough for me to let go of it and
let myself relax and get some rest instead of trying to solve the
world's problems in my sleep :)

I wish you lots of luck in getting this issue resolved.   I know what
it's like to be sleep deprived and how frustrating it is to want to
sleep and not be able to.  I still think you decided to kick the
miscellaneous drugs too quickly and are putting your body through a
lot of hassle that you might have avoided had you tapered off more
slowly and taken more time to get your body back to "normal".... and
yes, I think that your new "normal" may be much different from your
old "normal".  Give yourself a break and take it a little slower if
you can....  I think your body will be nicer to you if you are nicer
to it :)

big hugs
Sara
Waterspider - 07 Apr 2009 18:56 GMT
On Apr 4, 2:16 pm, topcat <ho...@live.com> wrote:
> > I have a bitch of a time getting to sleep at night, toss and turn and,
> > when
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I never had trouble sleeping before treatment. my sympathies to
> fellow sufferers. joe

I found I had to really cut back on caffeine... even a little bit too
late in the day will keep me up all night, making what little sleep I
might get sporadic and not at all restful.   I cut out the caffeine
altogether for a long time, but for the past few months I've been back
to my morning cuppa (actually I'm hooked on the frozen coffee drinks
from starbucks or tim hortons....  or I'll flavor my home made brew
and pour it over lots of ice, it's become my daily "treat".)

For quite a while I found myself taking xanax a couple times a week to
get a good night's sleep, but that leaves me a bit hungover the next
day so I don't like doing it much.   I do find that playing a computer
game or reading at night is a good way to get sleepy, and most nights
I am able to fall asleep fairly easily now -- though I never seem to
sleep all that well and am up every couple of hours to use the
bathroom or get a drink of water.

I did get tested for sleep apnea a few years ago and they put me on
the cpap machine --but I couldn't use it, I'd wake up feeling  like I
was suffocating,  and I couldn't breathe right while it was running.
another doctor told me that my nasal passages are very narrow and that
no machine was going to be effective for me.   who knows.  I do sleep
more soundly and for longer periods when I take the xanax -- I think
it slows down the thinking process enough for me to let go of it and
let myself relax and get some rest instead of trying to solve the
world's problems in my sleep :)

I wish you lots of luck in getting this issue resolved.   I know what
it's like to be sleep deprived and how frustrating it is to want to
sleep and not be able to.  I still think you decided to kick the
miscellaneous drugs too quickly and are putting your body through a
lot of hassle that you might have avoided had you tapered off more
slowly and taken more time to get your body back to "normal".... and
yes, I think that your new "normal" may be much different from your
old "normal".  Give yourself a break and take it a little slower if
you can....  I think your body will be nicer to you if you are nicer
to it :)

big hugs
Sara

I'm really starting to wonder if it's tx-related or a normal part of aging.
Seems that most of my friends in the 40/50-something age group, male and
female, who have not done tx or have hep c, have problems sleeping.
Thip - 07 Apr 2009 21:15 GMT
> I'm really starting to wonder if it's tx-related or a normal part of
> aging. Seems that most of my friends in the 40/50-something age group,
> male and female, who have not done tx or have hep c, have problems
> sleeping.

A doctor told me over 30 years ago to cut off all caffeine after 2:00 p.m.,
assuming you'd go to bed around 10 or 11.  I've followed that schedule since
and it does help.  It's only been the past few years I've had so many
problems, and I honestly think it's related to lack of exercise.
Waterspider - 08 Apr 2009 18:35 GMT
>> I'm really starting to wonder if it's tx-related or a normal part of
>> aging. Seems that most of my friends in the 40/50-something age group,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> had so many problems, and I honestly think it's related to lack of
> exercise.

You might have something about the exercise. If we're ill, and as we get
older, we move around less. Computers haven't helped either.

We'll see, because I've started a new business (a U-vin) that's damned hard
work. I'm dog tired at the end of the day, but can't say that I'm sleeping
any better... at least not yet.
 
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