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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / September 2008

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Relapser retreatment outcomes?

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Cactus Jammies - 05 Sep 2008 22:45 GMT
Hi,
 I have a meeting with my specialist next week.  I am certain that we will
be discussing the possibility/advisabilty of retreating with Pegetron for an
extended period beyond 48 weeks.  My last biopsy showed 3/3.
 Can anyone point me to valid statistics regarding the SVR outcome (%) at
the 6 month post-treatment point for Genotype 1b's who have undergone
extended retreatment?  I know that RVR and EVR (four week and twelve week)
negative pcr's are hoped for and may decide whether the patient would be
subjected to that brew for the full (72 week + ) length of treatment.

Thanks in advance

cactus jammies
greyhackles - 06 Sep 2008 18:01 GMT
>Hi,
>  I have a meeting with my specialist next week.  I am certain that we will
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>cactus jammies

CJ, as you've probably found, there's not a wealth of information out there
dealing with extended re-treatment of relapsers since the pegylated IFNs
became the standard-of-care. Indeed, I really haven't found any good studies
that were structurally conceived to determine how much, for instance, a 72
week course of peg-IFN & riba improves outcomes.

That said, there is a definite inverse correlation between degree of fibrosis
and SVR using the 48 week regimen for tx-naive responders, and there is plenty
of *conjecture* that a longer regimen could improve SVR rates in that group.

Positive support for "extended therapy" is historic and ongoing: from the
original studies using Pegasys & Ribavirin that had 24 week treatment g1 arms,
through current trials with alternative interferons, or additive drugs such
protease inhibitors, all show the benefit of longer treatment durations over
shorter.

Obviously, there's a "tail of the dragon" in the curve, so the degree of
improvement approaches zero at some point, but there are a few studies on
tx-naive g1s showing increased SVR with 72 weeks on standard therapy in the
low double-digit range, so the zero-point is out beyond 72 weeks.

Dr. Ben Cecil is an advocate for "individualized treatment" that includes
extended regimens. It appears that his basic g1 responder-relapser
retreatment game plan is to do frequent viral load testing, and add 48 weeks
to the point of first undetectable status. He also likes to vary the amount of
Peg to get the patient on a good VL-fall curve. I think those are good
strategies, while recognizing that it isn't going to be a cakewalk.

Correct me if I'm remembering this wrong (there's been a lot of folks that
passed through here since you did therapy ;-) but you really didn't have a lot
of early viral load testing - so you're not really sure when you went
undetectable, but you know you were undetectable by week 24? If you actually
went undetectable much earlier than 24 weeks, you might not be facing a whole
72 weeks.

Which Peg did you do the first time: Pegasys or Peg-Intron? Would you be
repeating the same Peg - or switching?

fwiw, I'll keep looking for anything that might help.

Cheers

/greyhackles
john - 07 Sep 2008 13:59 GMT
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:45:24 GMT, "Cactus Jammies"
>
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> /greyhackles

Correct me if I'm remembering this wrong (there's been a lot of folks
that
passed through here since you did therapy ;-) but you really didn't
have a lot
of early viral load testing - so you're not really sure when you went
undetectable, but you know you were undetectable by week 24? If you
actually
went undetectable much earlier than 24 weeks, you might not be facing
a whole
72 weeks.

Which Peg did you do the first time: Pegasys or Peg-Intron? Would you
be
repeating the same Peg - or switching?

fwiw, I'll keep looking for anything that might help.

Cheers

/greyhackles

I have had early testing and i found that i cleared at 12 weeks. Is
Peg-Intron = infergen????????????????
john
greyhackles - 07 Sep 2008 18:09 GMT
>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:45:24 GMT, "Cactus Jammies"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>Peg-Intron = infergen????????????????
>john

Hi John!
That's great news for you - clearing by 12 weeks is an excellent start!

Peg-Intron is not Infergen.
"Peg-Intron" is Pegylated Interferon alpha-2b produced by Schering Corp.
"Infergen" is Consensus Interferon Alpha-1 produced by Three Rivers
Pharmaceuticals.
(And, fwiw, "Pegasys" is Pegylated Interferon alpha-2a  produced by Roche
Pharmaceuticals).

Peg-Intron and Pegasys attach their interferon molecules to what is
essentially a fragment of "soap" ("pegylated") to increase the time that the
drugs stay in the body to nearly a week from the time of injection. Trials
showed this process increased the general SVR rate two to three times over
their non-pegylated predecessors (which were/are the same interferons). The
major difference between Peg-Intron and Pegasys is the size of their
respective "soap fragments": Pegasys uses a molecular size roughly 4 times
that of the smaller Peg-Intron molecule (40k Daltons vs 10k Daltons).

At this time, Infergen is only available in non-pegylated form, and thus
multiple injections per week (usually daily) are required to maintain active
quantities in the body at all times. However, it will almost certainly become
available in a pegylated form - "Peg-Alphacon" is currently undergoing trials,
which are expected to be quite positive.

Anyway...Good start to your therapy!
Cheers - and keep up the great work!

/greyhackles
Waterspider - 07 Sep 2008 22:26 GMT
>>> On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:45:24 GMT, "Cactus Jammies"
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
> (And, fwiw, "Pegasys" is Pegylated Interferon alpha-2a  produced by Roche
> Pharmaceuticals).

And, in Canada, Peg-Intron was initially named Pegetron. The name was
eventually changed to avoid confusion with something or other, can't
remember exactly what.
john - 08 Sep 2008 23:48 GMT
> >> On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:45:24 GMT, "Cactus Jammies"
>
[quoted text clipped - 113 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Greyhacles,
I reread my post and i completed my 72 week treatment of nightly
infergen and rib.I am clear at the 8th week after completion of
treatment.This is a first for me.Fingers still crossed but i will know
more in december.
Thanks for the encouragment and i hope it works out.
john
greyhackles - 09 Sep 2008 02:29 GMT
>Hi Greyhacles,
>I reread my post and i completed my 72 week treatment of nightly
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Thanks for the encouragment and i hope it works out.
>john

Hi John!
Wow squared! 72 weeks of daily shots - you are the man!

Clearing by the 8th week, then doing another 64 weeks - I have to believe the
odds are *way* in your favor this time around!

Cheers - and let us know when that 6 month VL check comes back negative!

/greyhackles
Cactus Jammies - 08 Sep 2008 18:56 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "greyhackles" <greyhackles@REMOVEyahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.support.hepatitis-c
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Relapser retreatment outcomes?

edited

> Correct me if I'm remembering this wrong (there's been a lot of folks that
> passed through here since you did therapy ;-) but you really didn't have a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> /greyhackles

Hi Grey
 Had Pegetron 48 weeks, at week 12 pcr had 2.6 log drop from 1.7 million
pre tx.
No 24 week pcr performed.  Actually no quantitative pcr since the end of
treatment.
I wouldn't have asked ASHC if I already hadn't looked high and low for the
stats
re: SVR rate on extended treatment regime.

This is interesting, though:

Pegylated interferon and ribavirin failures: is retreatment an option?

Cheruvattath R, Rosati MJ, Gautam M, Vargas HE, Rakela J, Balan V.
Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, Transplant Medicine, Mayo
Clinic, 13400 East Shea Boulevard, Scottsdale, Arizona 85259, USA.

Currently, there are limited therapeutic options available for chronic
hepatitis C (HCV) patients who fail treatment with peginterferon alpha
(PEG IFN) + ribavirin (RBV). An option is retreatment with a second
course PEG-IFN + RBV. However, the virologic clearance with this
option is unknown.

Thus, we evaluated the outcome of our cohort of patients with chronic
HCV who achieved a sustained viral response when retreated with PEG
IFN plus RBV after having no response to an initial course of PEG IFN
plus RBV.

Nonresponse to treatment was defined as failure to achieve an early
virologic response by week 12 or presence of detectable HCV RNA at
week 24 or after completion of PEG-IFN + RBV therapy.

Twenty patients (12 [60%] men; 8 [40%] women) were treated with PEG
IFN alpha-2b plus RBV and PEG IFN alpha-2a plus RBV.

The mean age of the patients was 50 years, 85% were white, 95% had
genotype 1, and 35% had cirrhosis. Prior to the first course of PEG
IFN plus RBV, 12 (60%) of 20 patients had no prior treatment for
Hepatitis C.

After the second course of PEG IFN plus RBV, 2 (10%) of 20 patients
achieved a sustained virologic response. These results suggest
marginal benefit of retreatment of patients with chronic HCV with
another course of PEG IFN plus RBV after they have not responded to an
initial course of PEG IFN plus RBV.

PMID: 17253142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17253142?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn
trez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpo
s=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed


thanks,
cactus jammies
Kozure Ookami - 09 Sep 2008 09:05 GMT
>Hi Grey
>  Had Pegetron 48 weeks, at week 12 pcr had 2.6 log drop from 1.7 million
>pre tx.

Hmm, not undetectable but the a 2.6 log drop at 12 weeks. Not all that
impressive a response.   What did u say stage 3/ grade 3?  Naturally a
progression to stage 4 would be a concern.  If it was me I'd be
wondering about the possibility of getting into a vertex trial because
I liked what I saw with people who had so-so responses to the
standard.  The extended treatment really is a gray area.  It worked
for Eileen (with complications) but failed for Thom.  Not an easy
decision.

Don
john - 07 Sep 2008 13:49 GMT
On Sep 5, 5:45 pm, "Cactus Jammies" <cactusjamm...@retinal.circus.orb>
wrote:
> Hi,
>   I have a meeting with my specialist next week.  I am certain that we will
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> cactus jammies

Hi cactus,
As i have posted before and you might remember.After 72 week treatment
of infergen i finally cleared at week4.dr told me i had a 95% of SVR.
week #8 still clear.Dr said 98%.she will retest at the 6 month point
which is december.she is optimistic but after 3 treatments i am still
nervous..........
pegasys didnt work for me,genotype 1a stage 3-4 in 2004.
but when i tried infergen for the full 72 weeks with 4 weeks of
pegasys mixed in at the end of treatment it might have worked.
Infergen is hell i am not going to lie to you.It was the worst time in
my life at the end of treatment number 3.It was tough.
If you are near cirihoisis you might have to do whatever possible.For
me i realized after that treatment i am done regardless of the
outcome.
Best wishes i am pulling for you....................

John
Kozure Ookami - 09 Sep 2008 09:09 GMT
>On Sep 5, 5:45 pm, "Cactus Jammies" <cactusjamm...@retinal.circus.orb>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
>John

Congrats on making it through 72 weeks of infergen and good luck with
the outcome things are looking good.

Don
john - 10 Sep 2008 03:41 GMT
> >On Sep 5, 5:45 pm, "Cactus Jammies" <cactusjamm...@retinal.circus.orb>
> >wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Don.
john
 
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