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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / July 2008

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Long-term "payments" for Tx...

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amzolt - 15 Jul 2008 20:33 GMT
I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
so I can plan ahead...

What are the "known" lingering conditions after TX?
and/or
What side effects "never" go away?

~ Alex
dBo - 15 Jul 2008 20:41 GMT
You will continue to get older, fatter or maybe thinner, more tired,
have less physical strength, your memory will worsen, and perhaps your
hair will continue to fall out...

Oh sh.t, that's a descpription of "AGEING", isn't it?? So I guess all
of that would happen anyway having had Hep c or otherwise..

Jeez Alex it really stinks being so hung up on the whole Hep C things
doesn't it? I can really relate!!! haha! Do you suppose we will EVER
"let it go"? I'll try if you will!  ~deb :)
metspitzer - 15 Jul 2008 20:51 GMT
>I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
>so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>~ Alex

Bad vision is one possible permanent side effect.
Paul - 15 Jul 2008 23:59 GMT
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:48:44 -0500, metspitzer <kilowatt@charter.net>,

>Bad vision is one possible permanent side effect.

Well my eyesight has worsened since tx but that would probably have
happened anyway at 51.  While we are on about eyes, I do seem to be
stuck with blepharitis.  The "attacks" are far less frequent than they
were but I do have to treat is sometimes.  I did not have this
condition before tx.  It only surfaced while on it.  It's not
dangerous and it's easy to treat but can be a pain in the arse when it
flairs up.
TX-012 - 15 Jul 2008 21:17 GMT
> I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
> so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> ~ Alex

I seem to be acquiring a growing contempt for doctors...
greyhackles - 15 Jul 2008 22:06 GMT
>> I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
>> so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I seem to be acquiring a growing contempt for doctors...

ahahahahahaha! Too true.
And that's one common side-effect that ain't never gonna go away...

As for amzolt's question: to the best of my ability to discern them, now
three years post-therapy, I have no lingering side effects from treatment.

On the other hand, I'm getting old, and there are definitely side-effects.

But on the up side of *that*, it's WAY better than the alternative ;-)

Cheers

/greyhackles
dog@cat.com - 16 Jul 2008 08:16 GMT
>I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
>so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>~ Alex

I mentioned post treatment side-effects in my original post.  Please
let me clarify -- my treatment failed so the side effects I have are
from the Hep-C and, as was so delicately stated, I'm becoming an old
fart (57).

I don't know that there are any lasting post-treatment issues.  What
hair I lost grew back; my nails thickened-up again; my vision may have
been affected but it could be that oldfartitis again; I have red bllod
cells, white blood cells, more energy than when I was in treatment.

All-in-all if I didn't still have Hep-C I'd probably be out dancing on
the weekends. ;o)

--
Steve
amzolt - 16 Jul 2008 16:31 GMT
So, bad vision and continued aging...

Arthritis?

Fatigue?

Stupidity?

~ Alex
amzolt - 16 Jul 2008 20:04 GMT
Oh, and does the unreasoning anger go away?!?

~ Alex
Sara - 16 Jul 2008 20:35 GMT
> Oh, and does the unreasoning anger go away?!?
>
> ~ Alex

yes :)  though I will say that I think I have less patience for BS than I
used to, but I don't know if that stems from being sick and going thru the
tx, or if it's just another part of getting older.

maybe try to relax and take it all one day at a time?   appreciate the good
days, deal with the not so good.   All I know is that I do feel better than
I have felt for many years -- I am finally starting to WANT to do things,
travel, go for a walk, even clean my house!   It's been a long time since I
had enough energy to want to do anything without dragging myself off the
couch and making myself do it.

I don't really think that I have any residual effects from the tx...   the
aches and pains I feel now, I had before.   I tend to think they are just
part of the aging process, and like Grey says:  it sure beats the
alternative!  :))

Sara
amzolt - 17 Jul 2008 03:45 GMT
Thank you, dear Sara...
Kozure Ookami - 17 Jul 2008 16:17 GMT
>I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
>so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>~ Alex

One common lingering condition is preoccupation and paranoia of
lingering side effects and illnesses.  Blaming natural aging effects
on tx is another.  Not learning from your experience and persisting in
or resuming unhealthing living practices and attitudes is definately
one to watch out for.

Don
Cactus Jammies - 18 Jul 2008 04:22 GMT
>>I'm not trying to be morbid, just needing to be fully armed with info
>>so I can plan ahead...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Don

I have to agree with Don.  The only thing that lingers for me is the great
reluctance to have to go through it all over again.  Other than that, my
eyesight is as it was previous to tx in '05, I am as quick witted and
arttistic as I ever was (blessings for me, for others...?) and I DO have a
sore back.  That, I know I can blame on a number of things but tx is not on
that list.  Maybe I got lucky (ha ha)

cactus jammies (off soon to my first tie dye vendor excursion at a local
music festival)
amzolt - 18 Jul 2008 14:27 GMT
Being pretty snide, Don!

I'm seeking information and get my character slimed!!
Cactus Jammies - 18 Jul 2008 17:35 GMT
> Being pretty snide, Don!
>
> I'm seeking information and get my character slimed!!

You know, I almost forgot.  I went into a psychotic state of Hypermania
(opposite of clinical depression) at the end of tx, and I have had two
relapses since then.  I am now being told that I should look forward to
taking 1050 mg of Lithium every night.  Otherwise things are OK.

cactus jammies
amzolt - 19 Jul 2008 08:48 GMT
This place was helpful and caring for 18 months. Now, just when I'm
waking up again, certain people seem to have no compassion...
Waterspider - 19 Jul 2008 08:51 GMT
> This place was helpful and caring for 18 months. Now, just when I'm
> waking up again, certain people seem to have no compassion...

You're not quite awake yet... maybe taking things a tad too personally...
Be patient, it takes a while.
amzolt - 20 Jul 2008 15:31 GMT
"You're not quite awake yet..."

Uh, duh... Did I not say that (with other words): "...just when I'm
waking up again..."  Does that not also mean I realize I'm not fully
awake?

"...maybe taking things a tad too personally..."

Hmmm...  Since I I haven't put any of the Hep C drugs in my body for
2.6 months and during the Tx I never took things a tad too personally
(during which time you'd think I would have certainly if I am doing it
now with much less drug in me...), where is your critical faculty,
Waterspider?

I say:

>What are the "known" lingering conditions after TX?
>and/or
>What side effects "never" go away?

>~ Alex

And, "he" says:

"One common lingering condition is preoccupation and paranoia of
lingering side effects and illnesses.  Blaming natural aging effects
on tx is another."
Sara - 20 Jul 2008 16:11 GMT
> "You're not quite awake yet..."
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> lingering side effects and illnesses.  Blaming natural aging effects
> on tx is another."

Hey Alex

good morning :)
don't get mad at me, k?  but I also feel like maybe you are being a little
over-sensitive in regard to this issue.   The truth of the matter is that
none of us really has an answer for you -- everyone is different after tx
just the same as everyone is different during tx, and I think it's all still
new/recent enough that the docs don't know either.  We're a bunch of lab
rats here....   and I hope someone, somewhere, is keeping track of not only
our sides during tx, but what we go thru after.   Sadly, I don't think many
doctors are really doing that -- I know I haven't seen my BCLD much since I
finished tx.

question for ya.... and again, please don't take this the wrong way.    Are
you still on your anti depressants?  If not, how did you stop taking them?
Did you wean off, did you go cold turkey.....   do you need to be on them
for a while yet?   I'm not trying to be a smart-a.s here.  I did find that
when I quit taking them (and I weaned off, but quickly cause I was tired of
being on them) I went through a period of adjustment where I was up and down
and over-reactive at times, a bit bipolar-ish :)   I evened out pretty
quickly, but probably would have been better off staying on the anti-d's for
a bit longer than I did.

I also find I don't have the patience I used to have (I think I said this
already huh...)    but I react badly to any kind of stupidity going on
around me, and I'm impatient when my hubby starts acting like he just popped
in from Mars and has no clue....   I dunno.   Maybe I have realized that
life's too short to play games, and I just want folks to be straight with me
and "say what they mean and mean what they say".   I've always been that
way, but now I think I am more so.    I just wish I could see *myself* as
clearly as I seem to see everyone else :))

then again, maybe the impatience is part of the aging process too :)   See,
it's just so hard to figure out what could be different about us due to tx,
and what's just the natural aging thing going on...   shrug.   Ultimately,
does it really matter?   We gotta live with it, no matter what caused it.

anyway, take care, k?   I'm curious about what's going on with you that
prompted the original email and question about post-tx changes....
something going on that concerns you?   anything you want to talk about?

hugs at cha, hope all is well
Sara
(btw, can you send me a link for the other website you started?   My other
puter decided to up and die on me and I lost a lot of stuff like that in the
process.  I liked dropping in over there.  you can email me at bb at wowway
dot com  -- thanks :)  )
Waterspider - 20 Jul 2008 21:12 GMT
> "You're not quite awake yet..."
> Uh, duh... Did I not say that (with other words): "...just when I'm
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> lingering side effects and illnesses.  Blaming natural aging effects
> on tx is another."

There's nothing wrong with my "critical faculty" and CJ is not just another
pretty face... he's absolutely right on this one for those fiftysomethings
among us. I'd take it up a notch and suggest that we're in denial that our
bodies are doing the normal thing and beginning to deteriorate because of
advancing age. Hey, blame it all on tx and we don't have to admit that we're
no longer youthful.

Yeah, aging sucks and aging has some common physical symptoms. No one knows
what, if any, the "lingering conditions" are post-tx, but they often seem to
be identical to the symptoms of aging. Add to that that not all of us led
especially healthy lives and these aging symptoms might be a bit stronger.
My joints ache, I don't have the muscular strength and energy I did 20 years
ago, my hearing is poor, my eyesight is worse and my memory had its problems
too. Is this all a result of tx? Is it all a result of being +50 years old?
Is it all a result of decades of drinking and drugging, loud music, poor
diet, smoking, not getting enough rest, working in a sawmill without ear
plugs for ten years, a really bad car accident at 28, a remarkably sedentary
lifestyle for the past 25 years? I'll never know, but I suspect my age is
the biggest factor, followed by my lifestyle. Treatment may have absolutely
nothing to do with it. But, I'll never know.

Treatment was harsh on all of us. It went on for months and months and it
was the main focus of our existence. Not surprising that we don't dismiss it
all the day it ends. I understand this, but I don't understand why you
snapped at CJ's post. It made me smile, and had it been directed at me I
would have smiled wider. I think you owe the guy an apology, and I think you
should chill about the post, about your post-tx worries and about life in
general. That will go miles towards making you feel better. Get out there
and enjoy the freakin' day, you've been to the dark side of the moon and
back, and you made it. It's all good.
amzolt - 20 Jul 2008 23:01 GMT
Thanks for you concern, Sara.

I'm not taking issue with the whole group just the person that
Waterspider thought was right.

And, Waterspider. How can you judge my aging?

People who go on and on with mere shreds of information are, uh, let's
see... pontificating.
Waterspider - 21 Jul 2008 01:40 GMT
> Thanks for you concern, Sara.
> I'm not taking issue with the whole group just the person that
> Waterspider thought was right.
> And, Waterspider. How can you judge my aging?
> People who go on and on with mere shreds of information are, uh, let's
> see... pontificating.

Offerchrissakes, Amzolt, I'm not judging you and I'm not judging your aging.
We all age, there's no way around it. I told you about my experience. I told
you I thought CJ wasn't being insensitive. I'm not pontificating. Let it go.
Move on.

Were you on antidepressants during tx? If yes, have you discontinued taking
them? If yes again, there might be the source of your hypersensitivity. Yes,
I said hypersensitivity. If this continues I'll be using the O word too
(obsession).
Cactus Jammies - 23 Jul 2008 00:58 GMT
> I'm not taking issue with the whole group just the person that
> Waterspider thought was right.

who posted the original comment, Alex?  was it me?  I agreed with someone.
not that it matters.  I will share the blame.  if you have to point fingers
to justify this aberration, so be it.  Listening to classical music and cool
jazz helps one break through the bubble of tx induced crappola.  NO HIP HOP!
NO APOLOGIES! NO EATING AFTER SUPPER!

cactus jammies
amzolt - 23 Jul 2008 17:01 GMT
CJ,

You weren't the one fingered. Thanks for being a bit paranoid, though!

The fingeree is now a normal person.

Plus, your mentioning the creative outlet hit home. If it weren't for
the creative pursuits I pursue, oh so doggedly, I'd surely be dead.

And, speaking of "abruptness" in our posting here, I think it's a tad
distasteful...

~ Alex
Cactus Jammies - 23 Jul 2008 18:43 GMT
OK Alex, OK, someone didn't shift gears in the string.  Life goes on.  Time
is actually a vortex, ever expanding ever contracting in the same space, to
warp space itself.

Bon chance, mon ami

cactus jammies
> CJ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> ~ Alex
amzolt - 24 Jul 2008 19:28 GMT
CJ,

" Time is actually a vortex, ever expanding ever contracting in the
same space, to warp space itself."

Huh?
Cactus Jammies - 24 Jul 2008 19:51 GMT
> CJ,
>
> " Time is actually a vortex, ever expanding ever contracting in the
> same space, to warp space itself."
>
> Huh?

Has that effect on me, too.

cj
eileen - 25 Jul 2008 05:30 GMT
> CJ,
>
> " Time is actually a vortex, ever expanding ever contracting in the
> same space, to warp space itself."
>
> Huh?

Hey Alex,

I started reading to try and see what's happening here at ash-c.  Some
things never change. Some people never change.  Until someone walks in
my shoes they would never know
what's happen to me. The effects of post treatment issues is different
for everybody . I suspect going through hell and back either refines
you or spits you out like they always were. I know payment is steep,
but friends pay the way.
eileen
amzolt - 25 Jul 2008 08:59 GMT
Nice sentiments, Eileen . . .
Paul - 25 Jul 2008 02:05 GMT
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:43:30 GMT, "Cactus Jammies"
<cactusjammies@retinal.circus.orb>, in message ID
<65Khk.1237$%b7.220@edtnps82>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>OK Alex, OK, someone didn't shift gears in the string.  Life goes on.  Time
>is actually a vortex, ever expanding ever contracting in the same space, to
>warp space itself.

alt.fan.startrek is that way  :-)  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Beam me up Spotty.
Kozure Ookami - 21 Jul 2008 04:37 GMT
>Being pretty snide, Don!
>
>I'm seeking information and get my character slimed!!

Sorry if my reply seemed snide but I think you have to give recovery
some time unless there are clear signs of lingering problems from the
medication.   It was meant to be a joke but I see it didn't go over
well with you.  Actually I was very worried about lingering sides
myself when I stopped treatment.  Recovery wasn't as quick as I hoped.
Depression lingered for a while after stopping.  

Most people seem to recover pretty well after tx but not everyone.  I
don't know of any study beyond what you get in the brochure with the
meds.  I know in the years I've been in this group I've heard of quite
a few thyroid problems.   I had to finish tx with the help of
prednisone, a fairly strong corticosteroid, because I had a systemic
immune reaction to the peg, and it was that or just stop tx and
probably never attempt an interferon based therapy if I relapsed.
Because of the severe reaction I was really worried about lingering
problems and corticosteroids have their own set of side effects.  It
all passed fortunately and the treatment was successful.  Hopefully,
you will have similar results.

Don
amzolt - 21 Jul 2008 18:01 GMT
Don,
 Thanks for being rational and kind...

 I usually put a ;-) after a joke I make online, especially if it's
worded in a way that can easily be taken as serious...

 Still, in all, thank you for being kind.

 Now if we can just get Waterspider to stop thinking she can tell, in
detail, exactly what a person in this forum is going through........

~ Alex
Waterspider - 21 Jul 2008 18:20 GMT
"amzolt" <amzolt@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fed571ec-ce96-415d-a1df-

>  Now if we can just get Waterspider to stop thinking she can tell, in
> detail, exactly what a person in this forum is going through........
>
> ~ Alex

And if we could just get Amzolt to stop thinking he can read my mind...
amzolt - 22 Jul 2008 09:37 GMT
> And if we could just get Amzolt to stop thinking he can read my mind...

Damn it...

I'm not reading your mind, I'm reading your *words*. Wake up!!
Cactus Jammies - 22 Jul 2008 14:29 GMT
WS wrote:
>> And if we could just get Amzolt to stop thinking he can read my mind...
> ...................................
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>.........................................

Alex, buddy....

Thank goodness human brains are built to forget.  Otherwise there would be
no room for anything new to slip in.

Please don't snarl.  Let it go and force yourself to see tomorrow without
dragging your a.s through the past.  Waterspider has a way of being abrupt,
and you are somewhat touchy as I can understand.  Let it pass with grace and
a shrug.  Hendrix wrote: "Fly on my sweet angel, fly in to the sky..."

On the brighter side, just to let you know Alex, I fullfilled a long time
ambition of mine this past weekend.  When I was on tx in '04 and '05, I
found I felt I must fulfill my artistic and creative mindspace, and that
would occupy my anxiety about what was happening and what would happen in
the short and medium future regardless of my treatment outcome.  Something
added to my real experience was the lasting effects of tx, the psychological
thing that you should have read about by now in this message string.  But
leaving that outcome where it belongs, etc. here we are.  I was encouraged
those days by people in this newsgroup, and learned just about everything by
way of the Internet.

Well, I just returned from my first music festival vendor thing.  I have
busily improving my tie dye skills and building my inventory.  I set a goal
and having confidence in my ability and self discipline, I stepped through a
new doorway into a space I only dreamed about when I was 'downstairs in the
critical ward' of my treatment routine.  I learned a lot by way of the
internet about fabric work, and picked up tips that I experimented with,
although I still am somewhat daunted by the prospects of using the sewing
machine.  I also had lots of interaction with people of all age groups,
which I thoroughly enjoyed.  And I burned a sage smudge at my booth, offered
to me by a sweet young someone, which was perfect thing to happen.  It was
wonderful, and I will say again, other than the pysch thing which is
handled, I have had no lingering effects by way of combo tx.  It didn't
work, but I am in the majority of type ones that way.  C'est la vie dits les
anciens...

cactus jammies
kjoh - 22 Jul 2008 23:25 GMT
cj you are wonderful.   :-)

soon
k

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Cactus Jammies - 23 Jul 2008 02:37 GMT
> cj you are wonderful.   :-)
>
> soon
> kj
>
> --

Thanks KJ,  :)
friends like you that have been what we have been through with treatment and
all are wonderful to meet, make and keep.

hasta, be well
cactus jammies
Cactus Jammies - 21 Jul 2008 23:24 GMT
> Don,
>  Thanks for being rational and kind...
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> ~ Alex

Alex,
 I made a second posting to this subject line.  Feeling so good and all, I
forgot to balance the account.  Have you read my second post?  That condtion
I mention is enduring and witty and just plain f.cked up, but controlled by
a dose of mineral salts.

cactus jammies
 
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