Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / August 2008
Colloidal Silver discussion
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Sara - 15 Jul 2008 16:50 GMT I brought up some results using AOL's search engine this morning (also googled it earlier but didn't grab any links then) interesting that any of the "pro" colloidal sites I found seemed to always be connected to trying to sell a product/products.
These three seemed to be pretty legitimate to me, tho I guess Dr Cecil 'could' be said to have an agenda, if you want to stretch a bit. And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag)
--sara
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/080314.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_silver
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm
chardonney9 - 18 Jul 2008 23:04 GMT > And > of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ealerts/ea200807/ea20080716a.html FTC bullies an herbal supplement company and the company fights back Down By Law
Out in New Mexico, some little guys are fighting some big guys who happen to be government guys who also happen to be acting like bullies.
Do you tend to root for the underdog? Do you enjoy seeing bullies get their comeuppance?
Then I've got a good story for you…
Dark shadow
Let's say there's a government website that acknowledges evidence that milk thistle is "hepatoprotective" (that is, it protects the liver). And let's say there's another government website that offers this quote about milk thistle: "It has been used for thousands of years as a remedy for a variety of ailments, especially liver problems."
Okay. As it happens, you manufacture and sell a milk thistle product, so on your website you post something like this: "The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (a division of the National Institutes of Health) states that milk thistle has been used for thousands of years as a remedy for a variety of ailments, especially liver problems."
What are you doing? You're stating the truth about an historical fact. Not only that, it's a fact backed up by a direct quote from a government agency.
Guess what? You can't do that.
Who says? The FTC. And they're willing to take away your company and bankrupt you to prove their point.
So what do you do? Most companies roll over and comply when the FTC shadow darkens their door. But not you. You sue the bullies. And you just might make history.
Way over the top
For about 15 years, Mark and Marianne Hershiser have operated Native Essence Herb Company, just outside of Taos, New Mexico. They started their business with a single herbal tea, then slowly expanded to offer many individual herbs and herbal formulas.
This past spring they received a letter from the Western Region of the FTC, stating that they had violated the FTC Act by making deceptive claims. Acting like a "good cop," the Western Region letter notes that the Hershisers could avoid litigation from the FTC "bad cop" by removing the claims from their website and signing a settlement agreement. Failure to respond would result in legal action that would include, "…appointment of a receiver to exercise control over the company…and an asset freeze…"
The letter states that the FTC also directed the Western Region office to seek from the company an amount equal to revenues from the sales of certain products - that is: ALL revenues accumulated over the years the products were sold.
In other words: Comply or we'll take your business and bury you in debt.
Late last month the Hershisers responded in a way no one had ever responded to such a letter. They sued. Citing the First Amendment, the Hershisers claim they have the right to truthfully inform customers about the historical uses of individual herbs (as noted on government websites) and to share the conclusions of government-sponsored studies.
In a statement issued by the office of Richard A. Jaffe, the Hershisers' attorney, Mr. Jaffe said, "This is a precedent-setting case. The issue has never been litigated; it not only affects the Hershisers, but all companies which sell herbal products."
We can only hope that someone at the FTC is squirming uncomfortably. And hopefully that discomfort will steadily increase as the case goes on.
You can be sure I'll closely follow the Hershisers' progress, and I'll keep you posted on how they fare in their fight with these government bullies. Meanwhile, you can read more about their case (and contribute to their legal fund, if you like) at this website: herbalinformation.com.
Sources: "Native Essence Herb Company Sues FTC" Business Wire, 6/25/08, reuters.com "New Mexico Lawsuit challenges FTC Censorship" Voluntary Trade Council, 6/28/08, voluntarytrade.org
chardonney9 - 18 Jul 2008 23:19 GMT > And > of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) http://www.naturalnews.com/023514.html (NaturalNews) Big Pharma is constantly finding new ways to destroy the natural supplements market, in much the same way that the American Medical Association once sought to destroy the chiropractic industry (for which it was later found guilty of conspiracy in U.S. courts, by the way). The latest attack against vitamins comes from an FDA petition filed by Medicure Pharma, Inc., which has astonishingly asked the FDA to ban the sale of Vitamin B6!
Vitamin B6, of course, is a naturally-occurring nutrient found in numerous vegetables, nuts and whole grains. Its natural form is called pyridoxal 5'-phosphate or P5P for short. It's an essential nutrient for expectant mothers, growing children and anyone who wishes to be healthy. It's absolutely crucial for healthy blood cell function, and it's used in over 100 enzymatic reactions involving protein metabolism. ... (continues) ...
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So why would a pharmaceutical company petition the FDA to outlaw the sale of this essential nutrient? It's simple: Because Big Pharma wants to market its own form of Vitamin B6 and call it a "drug."
Medicure Pharma, Inc., has been studying the clinical effects of Vitamin B6 (which they call "MC-1") on humans. This is part of a process for receiving FDA approval on MC-1 as a "drug," and then marketing this drug through the conventional medical system (and selling it at markups that can reach 500,000% over the cost of the actual ingredients).
This issue was reported by the Alliance for Natural Health, an outstanding health freedom organization that deserves your support. You can read about this Vitamin B6 issue (along with links to the petition) at: http://www.anhcampaign.org/news/hand-ph...
Obviously, it is in the financial interest of Medicure Pharma, Inc. to not only receive FDA approval for their "MC-1" version of Vitamin B6; it's also crucial to eliminate the competition. After all, if people knew MC-1 was just Vitamin B6, they could go out and buy it on their own, for a fraction of the price of a prescription drug. This is most likely why Medicure Pharma petitioned the FDA to outlaw Vitamin B6 supplements: It's the simplest and easiest way to eliminate the competition and guarantee profits!
Screwy logic, biopiracy and Big Pharma scams So what's the logic behind banning Vitamin B6? It's simple: Medicare Pharma wants the FDA to declare Vitamin B6 to be "adulterated" because it contains a drug. Which drug does it contain? Well, MC-1, of course!
Do you see the circular reasoning here? Vitamin B6 is a naturally-occurring vitamin, but if a drug company gets FDA approval on Vitamin B6 (with a different name), then that very same drug company can petition the FDA to ban Vitamin B6, claiming it contains their drug!
I know this sounds incredibly stupid. And it is. But it isn't unprecedented. In fact, the very same thing happened with red yeast rice.
A few years ago, drug companies discovered that red yeast rice (a natural supplement) contained powerful, natural compounds that balance cholesterol levels. These compounds are called lovastatins (sound familiar?)
Drug companies ripped off the lovastatin molecules from red yeast rice, then patented them. Once they achieved FDA approval for their "statin drugs," it was easy to file a petition requesting the outlawing of red yeast rice, claiming the supplement was "adulterated" with drugs! Which drugs? Statin drugs, of course -- the very same drugs that were isolated from red yeast rice in the first place!
This is why the FDA has been on a terror campaign to outlaw red yeast rice supplements. They've sent warning letters to online retailers and threatened numerous companies with legal action. The point of all this is to eliminate red yeast rice from the marketplace because it competes with statin drugs. And it's the exact same strategy now being following by Medicure Pharma in its attempt to get the FDA to ban Vitamin B6.
Was it a move out of financial desperation? Medicure Pharma, by the way, is losing its shirt. It recently received notice from the American Stock Exchange that it would be "delisted" because it no longer meets the minimum requirement for shareholder equity vs. ongoing fiscal losses. In other words, the company is losing too much money and has too little shareholder equity to even stay listed in the American Stock Exchange.
This might explain its decision to petition the FDA to outlaw the sale of Vitamin B6 (P5P). If consumers were unable to buy the vitamins, many would have no choice but to seek out the company's own patented, high-profit MC-1 version of the vitamin, and that would generate a windfall of profits!
Making money in the pharmaceutical industry, you see, is not about helping people in any real way; it's about limiting their options, controlling the marketplace, and forcing people to buy products from you at monopoly prices.
This is, in fact, the underlying business model of the entire pharmaceutical industry: Selling drugs at monopoly prices while outlawing competing products. Any approval by the FDA is, in effect, a license to engage in monopolistic market practices. And remarkably, the FDA even enforces this monopoly by threatening, intimidating and raiding the warehouses of competing product companies, especially if they're in the "natural" products industry.
Even more remarkably, the FTC, which claims to protect fair market practices in the United States, has utterly ignored the monopoly practices of Big Pharma. Yes, the same government office that went after Microsoft for creating a "monopoly" user interface in Windows seems to have no interest whatsoever in going after drug companies engaged in widespread, fraudulent monopoly marketing practices that are bankrupting the entire nation! (How's that for selective enforcement of trade practices?)
We must either stop the FDA, or lose all access to herbs and supplements Do you see where all this is ultimately headed? If the FDA is allowed to keep banning nutritional supplements while promoting the very same drugs synthesized from those natural sources, it could allow Big Pharma to commit widespread biopiracy, stealing all the good medicine from nature, claiming patent protection on the useful molecules, and getting the FDA to outlaw virtually all the natural substances from which those medicines were first derived.
It's not a particularly brilliant strategy, but it is exceedingly effective at defrauding the public out of trillions of dollars in dishonest profits. And the fact that this is going on today gives additional support to something I've proposed for quite some time: Ending all patent protection on medicines, genes and seeds.
I say, there should never be a financial incentive for corporations to deny the People access to information and products that could halt disease, end suffering, and enhance their health. And yet today's conventional medical system is set up precisely to profit from the ongoing disease of the People.
It is a system that offers no cures, no education and no honest information to the public about real health solutions. It only offers a lifetime of ever-more-expensive patented pharmaceuticals that lead to a downward spiral of bad health and bad debt until more and more American families are left diseased and penniless, victims of a profiteering system of medicine that trades lives for profits as the foundation of its business model.
It is time for radical -- revolutionary, in fact! -- changes to our system of medicine, and I believe that begins by ending all patent protection for medicines, genes and seeds. These things belong to ALL the People, not just the rich, white fat cats who take home $300 million annual salaries by fraudulently selling dangerous prescription medications to people who are only harmed by them.
Watch NaturalNews tomorrow, for I'll be publishing a grassroots action article that dares to call for revolutionary action designed to rebuild a new health care system following the coming collapse of the American Empire.
You sense it coming, don't you? A year ago, you were skeptical, but now you know it's true: Skyrocketing fuel prices, hiking food prices, collapsing real estate bubbles, the demise of the U.S. dollar in international markets, failed wars and massive inflation caused by the Fed's bailout of rich white bankers... these are all signs of a modern Roman Empire that's about to collapse under the weight of its debt, disease and disastrous war mongering.
The end of American as we know it is coming. And it will be replaced by a new nation, built upon the ideas of people like you and me (those of us who can still think clearly because we're not all drugged out on Ambien...)
So read NaturalNews tomorrow to learn about what we need to do after the coming collapse of the U.S. government to rebuild a nation based in individual liberties, Free Speech, true health and respect for nature.
In the mean time if you want to send your comments to the FDA on this Vitamin B6 petition, the web page for you to file a comment on this Vitamin B6 issue is located here: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/c...
To file a comment, you have to click the little text balloon beside the phrase "Add Comments." It's difficult to find on the page, which just goes to show you that the FDA isn't really interested in people adding comments in the first place.
chardonney9 - 19 Jul 2008 12:50 GMT > And > of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) > > --sara http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Health&Medicine/+Doc-Health&Me dicine-Cancer/CansemaStory.htm
"Dr. James Watson won a Nobel Prize for determining the shape of DNA. During the 1970's, he served two years on the National Cancer Advisory Board. In 1975, he was asked about the National Cancer Program. He declared, 'It's a bunch of sh.t.'
"In 1953, a United States Senate Investigation reported that a conspiracy existed to suppress effective cancer treatments. The Senator in charge of the investigation conveniently died. The investigation was halted. It was neither the first nor the last of a number of strange deaths involving people in positions to do damage to those running the nation's cancer program.
"In 1964, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) spent millions of dollars to stop an alternative cancer treatment which had cured hundreds, if not thousands, of cancer patients according to documented records. It was later disclosed that the FDA had falsified the testimony of witnesses. The FDA lost the court case because the jury found the defendants innocent and recommended that the substance be objectively evaluated. It never was. Instead, it was totally suppressed.
"In the early 1960's, two New York City doctors, one associated with the leading cancer center in America and the other the medical director of a Brooklyn hospital, decided to inject live cancer cells into 22 unknowing patients. When they were discovered, Dr. Chester M. Southam of the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. E.E. Mandel of the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital of Brooklyn were put on "probation" for a year. The three physicians who "blew the whistle" on Dr. Southam and Dr. Mandel were dismissed.
"For many years, the American Medical Association (AMA) and the American Cancer Society (ACS) coordinated their "hit" lists of innovative cancer reseachers who were to be ostracized. One investigative reporter declared the AMA and ACS "for a network of vigilantes prepared to pounce on anyone who promotes a cancer therapy that runs against their substantial prejudices and profits."
"In the late 1950's, it was learned that Dr. Henry Welch, head of the FDA's Division of Antibiotics, had secretly received $287,000 from the drug companies he was supposed to regulate. In 1975, an independent government evaluation of the FDA still found massive "conflicts of interest" among the agency's top personnel.
"In 1977, an investigative team from the prominent Long Island newspaper Newsday found serious "conflicts of interest" at the National Cancer Institute (NCI). In 1986, an organized cover-up of an effective alternative cancer therapy, orchestrated by NCI officials, was revealed during Congressional hearings.
"These examples are only the tip of a huge iceberg. The cancer establishment now has a 50-year history of vast corruption, incompetence and organized suppression of cancer therapies which actually work. Millions of people have suffered terrible torture and death because those in charge took payoffs, played it safe, had closed minds to the innovative, or simply were afraid to do what was obviously and morally right...
Sara - 19 Jul 2008 18:16 GMT >> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have >> a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Board. In 1975, he was asked about the National Cancer Program. He > declared, 'It's a bunch of sh.t.' (snipped)
I am amazed and astounded at all the recent sources you are finding to make your point! Of course the medical scientists out there haven't learned ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or not alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years! Though you DID post something the other day that was only 9 years old.
I wasn't going to respond at all, sorry guys. I dunno why this is so annoying to me, well, except that I hope any newbies reading this stuff realize that they need to talk to a doctor, and get on a legitimate course of treatment for their HepC. I can understand why folks want to try alternatives, want to find an easy fix, etc etc.... but it makes me crazy to think of all the time and money wasted in the pursuit of a 'magic' cure.
whatever. just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue.
Sara
Waterspider - 19 Jul 2008 19:20 GMT "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ...
>>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have >>> a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > whatever. just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue. > Sara She's not likely going to get a clue, because she's not looking for a clue, she's looking for validation of her ill-informed, reckless and ignorant decision to avoid treatment for her hepatitis c. Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity is a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity...
Sara - 19 Jul 2008 20:03 GMT > "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ... >>>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity > is a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity... shame on me, but I'm cracking up here. brain fog + heavy-metal toxicity.... great names for new rock bands :) yeah, maybe you had to be there.
S
Waterspider - 19 Jul 2008 22:42 GMT >> "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ... >>>>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > toxicity.... great names for new rock bands :) > yeah, maybe you had to be there. I think I *was* there... <g> Rock on!
Cactus Jammies - 21 Jul 2008 23:18 GMT > I think I *was* there... <g> > Rock on! ...................... Band out of Galiano called Boss Moose and the Pigmies.
Jamffer - 20 Jul 2008 00:13 GMT > > "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ... > >>>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma > >>>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to > >>>> anything that will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) > >>>> --sara http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Health&Medicine/+Doc-Health&Me dicine-Cancer/CansemaStory.htm
> >>> "Dr. James Watson won a Nobel Prize for determining the shape of DNA. > >> (snipped) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > S Presenting Brainfogs latest Heavy-Metal killer album for 2008 called, "Toxicity". Jamffer
kjoh - 20 Jul 2008 00:48 GMT But is she blue yet?
k
- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.hepatitis-c More information at http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/faq.htm
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:27 GMT > But is she blue yet? > > kj Another myth about CS....
If made correctly there is no turning blue. I know people who have taken huge amounts for years and are fine.
And that is really the worse that could happen. It's not toxic at all and quite frankly I'd rather be blue than dead from hep c.
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:25 GMT > She's not likely going to get a clue, because she's not looking for a clue, > she's looking for validation of her ill-informed, reckless and ignorant > decision to avoid treatment for her hepatitis c. You don't know me and don't know my reasons for not being treated by the allopathic methods up to this point. Why would I come here where nobody has looked in the slightest (except one guy who's wife is into alternative medicine) at what CS can do. Every one of you looked for the worst websites you could find, not to openmindedly look into it but only to argue and troll. There was never any shot at you actually listening to what I've done and why, it's all about winning arguments here evidently.
> Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity is > a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity... Colloidal silver has been in use for thousands of years and yet the FDA can't pull one negative experience about it out of their database. There is no heavy metal toxicity. I know people who have taken it for decades and are not toxic in any way.
When you make statements like that you confirm your ignorance.
Dwight - 20 Jul 2008 04:27 GMT >>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma >>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Sara It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. Wish I could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at least it beats burying my head in the sand.
Dwight
Sara - 20 Jul 2008 05:48 GMT (snipped)
> It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this virus > and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. Wish I > could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at least it > beats burying my head in the sand. > > Dwight Thanks Dwight, you've said it very well. I don't really want to make a joke out of Char's beliefs and/or research, and who knows, maybe the colloidal silver really helps. I'm just very concerned that she, or others, will decide to go that route INSTEAD of going with the conventional TX, which has a great chance of knocking out the virus in this case, as she is a Geno 2.
I also have some concerns as to whether or not her choice of alternative treatments are harming her already compromised liver. I don't feel that any of the links provided so far touting colloidal silver as the cure-all are very legitimate, since they all have something to gain from their readers belief in the stuff (sales!)
Char, we really are not a bunch of bullies who gang up on someone for just having a 'different' idea or viewpoint (usually!) .... we really are concerned about you, and want to see you kill that dragon and live a long and healthy life. We're actually a pretty intelligent group who have also done our research, asked our questions, and shared many years worth of personal experience. You really can't blame us for getting impatient with you trying to ram something down our throats that we have good reason to believe is just "snake oil", and we all have better things to do than to keep trying to convince you that you could be hurting yourself by what you are putting into your body.
anyway, I'm tired of this game. Char's gonna do whatever she decides is the right thing for her. I only ask that she quit posting drivel to this newsgroup and find some more recent (like within the last year or even two) and believable claims for alternative treatments than she's provided so far -- articles from sources that do not have a conflict of interest would be nice :)
Sara thinking blue heppers might be kinda cool :) gee thanks, kojo!
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:44 GMT > Thanks Dwight, you've said it very well. I don't really want to make a > joke out of Char's beliefs and/or research, and who knows, maybe the > colloidal silver really helps. Why don't you find out for yourself? What in the world would it hurt?
I'm just very concerned that she, or
> others, will decide to go that route INSTEAD of going with the > conventional TX, which has a great chance of knocking out the virus in > this case, as she is a Geno 2. As I said earlier, you don't know the circumstances behind my choices, what I've done, what I've been told and what I will do in the future. I'm hoping that "others" will decide to really look into all possibilities, not just those the doctors throw at you.
> I also have some concerns as to whether or not her choice of alternative > treatments are harming her already compromised liver. I don't feel that > any of the links provided so far touting colloidal silver as the > cure-all are very legitimate, since they all have something to gain from > their readers belief in the stuff (sales!) No, they all did not sell silver. And if my liver is in trouble it's from the doctor not getting me a biopsy so we'd know there were problems and not from CS. I'm not one that follows fairy tales around, I have researched it very well and know for sure that it not only does not hurt livers but helps them.
And since it's not my only choice and not the only option I'm playing right now why is everyone down on only that choice? Because it's an easy target?
> Char, we really are not a bunch of bullies who gang up on someone for > just having a 'different' idea or viewpoint (usually!) .... Coulda fooled me!
we really
> are concerned about you, and want to see you kill that dragon and live a > long and healthy life. No, nobody here is concerned about me really. Nice try though.
We're actually a pretty intelligent group who
> have also done our research, asked our questions, and shared many years > worth of personal experience. I find that so hard to believe when I have noticed a serious lack of self knowledge when it comes to any alternatives. CS is hardly the only one.
You really can't blame us for getting
> impatient with you trying to ram something down our throats that we have > good reason to believe is just "snake oil", I'm not ramming anything anywhere. I'm presenting evidence that you and the others aren't trying in the least to actually look at. From what I see your only interest is pulling up as many websites that trash my view as you can, never mind they aren't the truth.
and we all have better
> things to do than to keep trying to convince you that you could be > hurting yourself by what you are putting into your body. Except I'm not. How can you convince me about something that I know so much more about than you do?
> anyway, I'm tired of this game. Char's gonna do whatever she decides is > the right thing for her. I only ask that she quit posting drivel to There was no need to call it drivel. That's exactly what I mean about not opening your eyes to see what is in front of you. Nobody has even asked what other protocols I'm following right now either.
> this newsgroup and find some more recent (like within the last year or > even two) and believable claims for alternative treatments than she's > provided so far -- articles from sources that do not have a conflict of > interest would be nice :) And if I'd done that you'd been unhappy that I can't show years of good results with CS. Can't win can I?
> Sara > thinking blue heppers might be kinda cool :) gee thanks, kojo! Paul - 20 Jul 2008 07:14 GMT On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:06 -0500, Dwight <Dwight@not_real.com>, in message ID <rhygk.5403$np7.188@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this >virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. >Wish I could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at >least it beats burying my head in the sand. I guess it pisses me off too because I lost a friend to hep-c who might have been saved had he treated sooner. He had an "easy" genotype BTW.
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:32 GMT > It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this > virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. You let me know when you see someone like that ok?
I won't try? What are you basing this on? What do you know about my situation and condition? Where did I ever say I won't try?
I just now found out about liver biopsies on here and within days got my doctor to schedule me one. I will be getting notice in the mail shortly about when this will happen.
You see, when you make up things that aren't true it causes you to get upset over nothing.
And if you really tried and tried why do you not know about other possible methods of kicking it's butt?
Do you feel doctors are infallable? That only big drug companies can find cures? That absolutely no "cures" anywhere in the world could take their place or suppliment them?
Are you just gonna sit on your arse and cry because you aren't responding to their treatment or will you explore other possible methods?
Dwight - 25 Jul 2008 19:25 GMT >> It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this >> virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Are you just gonna sit on your arse and cry because you aren't > responding to their treatment or will you explore other possible methods? good bye <plonk>
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:17 GMT > I am amazed and astounded at all the recent sources you are finding to > make your point! Of course the medical scientists out there haven't > learned ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or > not alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years! Though you DID > post something the other day that was only 9 years old. Since colloidal silver has been in use for thousands of years a few decades is nothing. I was showing that great info on CS has been around for a very long time and I find it shocking that nobody on here has even heard of it much less researched it and tried it. It's been around longer than aspirin!
If you had, you'd know that it's not a heavy metal, it helps and doesn't hurt your liver and that it has and will fight to make it healthier.
I can't believe all the great CS websites you had to pass over to find a very few that trash it just to say you are right. It isn't about being right, it's not about flames, it's just truth brought to you while you decide not to see what is in front of your eyes.
> I wasn't going to respond at all, sorry guys. I dunno why this is so > annoying to me, Maybe it's because I'm right. I've not trolled anyone, just posted factual evidence to your cynical words. Without even putting a lot of effort into it I've found quite a few instances where the FDA acted inappropriately towards people just looking to help others. I've definitely not earned all the flames thrown at me. God forbid I should think a little deeper than the others on here.
well, except that I hope any newbies reading this stuff
> realize that they need to talk to a doctor, and get on a legitimate > course of treatment for their HepC. I hope they are reading it too, and that is the main reason I am posting here. I could care less if I got anyone's approval on this group for all the time I've taken studying various methods of treatment that obviously no one here has done.
I can understand why folks want to
> try alternatives, want to find an easy fix, etc etc.... but it makes me > crazy to think of all the time and money wasted in the pursuit of a > 'magic' cure. Look at all the time and money wasted on conventional treatments that fail and hurt people significantly. I've not told my story as to why I did things the way I did and yet many here have already decided for me as to why I took the road I did.
> whatever. just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue. > > Sara I've had doctors almost kill me, maim me for life, give me meds that could have hurt me significantly, ignore a tumor without giving me a reason, decide they won't tell me about a liver biopsy since they figure I would probably not want one (why would anyone think they can make such decisions for me?) which is way over the line and ignorant enough that I'm going to go to the head of the hospital over.
It's amazing that anyone on here, not having really truly looked past what their doctors tell them, would want to say I need a clue.
None of you, as ignorant as you are about what stops hep c, are in a position to state that anyone needs a clue.
chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 15:09 GMT >>> And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma >>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > learned ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or > not alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years! My point was that this has been going on for a very long time. It's hardly something new.
Want new? Not that it makes any difference. Nothing has changed. Indeed, the FDA seem to be getting even more brazen. I don't want the government telling me I can't have something because Big Pharma can't make money on it!
WND LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER Hands up! Back slowly away from the vitamins! Feds crack down on reports of natural remedy healings
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73126
Posted: August 22, 2008 10:33 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh © 2008 WorldNetDaily
The Goliath-sized Federal Trade Commission and U.S. Food and Drug Administration have launched an attack on a small radio program and its accompanying website for recommending natural remedies to health problems, but in this case, David is fighting back.
Daniel Chapter One, a national Christian radio program and natural healing ministry, told WND today it may end up going to court against the FTC and FDA over the agencies' attempts to censor the information the ministry releases regarding "natural alternatives" to chemical and drug medications.
"If the FTC is successful in silencing Daniel Chapter One, individual consumers seeking to improve their health and the health of American society as a whole will suffer important losses," said Attorney James S. Turner, lead counsel for the organization, which has set up a separate website to track its battle with the federal government over the issue of vitamins, herbs and other natural supplements.
Jim Feijo, who with his wife set up the Rhode Island-based service that operates as a Christian ministry, told WND the dispute arose after officials in the Canadian health service contacted him and ordered him to shut down his operations. After he declined to cooperate, Canadian officials apparently contacted the FTC and FDA to insist on their demands.
But the issue isn't so simple as someone offering to sell illegal drugs; the products the program offers are natural substances and information about the treatments comes from those who experienced different levels of help, not a flam-flam artist.
According to a letter from Turner, his clients turned down the FTC's "offer to settle its claims" by shutting down operations and paying a substantial fine.
"We have stated your strong belief that you have done nothing that you are not entitled to do and that you have complied with any and all just and constitutional laws that govern your conduct," Turner wrote. "We said that because of your strong belief about the propriety of your behavior and that of Daniel Chapter One you are willing, and intend with our assistance, to present your case for a public hearing before the FTC, and if necessary in court.
"Your deeply held convictions raise serious legal questions for the FTC and the courts. First, what is the nature and intent of the law the FTC seeks to enforce and how does the Constitution restrain government power in enforcing that law? The courts are making it increasingly clear that government must clearly identify health claim wrongs and use the least intrusive power to correct them," he continued.
Regarding FDA intrusion into the situation, Turner said, "regulators must prove that the statements are in fact claims, that they are false claims that are impossible to be true for anyone, and that the defendants knew them to be false at the time they made them."
"Should this action move to court, we will raise the issues surrounding your constitutional rights to make a truthful statements supported by the material you have accumulated in your efforts to help people lead better lives," the lawyer wrote.
"We've lived in communist Berlin, Poland, China, and we've never seen anything like this," Feijo told WND. "They're threatening to come in and confiscated our legal products."
The FDA did not return a WND message today requesting comment, and the FTC could not be reached to leave a message.
Feijo, who's been involved with natural remedies and natural foods for decades, said he focuses on traditional folk remedies – except the federal government wants to ban that phrase – and he describes the government's goals as "mind-blowing."
"This is an absurd attempt to prevent the sharing of knowledge," he said.
He said if the government is successful in its current maneuver, there would be no limit to the dangers ordinary people could face. Grandmother's cold remedy could be called a medical treatment and regulated and taxed, and anyone administering "treatments" such as water for dehydration could be determined to be practicing medicine, he suggested.
One of the website's top promotions today included a fluoride reduction system that is described as the most "advanced cartridge system in the world" and says it can remove 91 percent of the fluoride in the water.
Interestingly, WND reported only a few weeks ago that the National Kidney Foundation has withdrawn its support for the chemical water additive and the American Water Works Association has been notified it must not eliminate or tamper with documents concerning fluoridation of water as they could be needed in potential lawsuits.
Feijo told WND the federal agencies had demanded customer lists and purchase records of all customers. The agencies also had demanded that a letter go to all customers from Daniel Chapter One warning everyone that its products didn't work.
But that doesn't make any sense, Turner insisted.
"Some products can be proven safe and effective for everyone, and some can be proven unsafe and/or ineffective for everyone. There are also some claims that can be proven as always true and some that can be proven as always false," he said.
But in the case of the natural remedies, the statements "are either in the area where they are always true or in the gray area [where results of treatment vary by individual.]"
The FTC, however, "mandates that consumers may only receive health information from producers and sellers that the FTC has determined is proven by the 'science' it selects. No historical knowledge, consumer experience, or traditional practice satisfies FTC demands," the protest website said.
Therein lies the dispute.
"By depriving consumer choice and the right to hear sellers' knowledge about health aspects of their products, the one-size-fits-all FTC health information standard deprives consumer access to alternative health approaches. If the FTC had enforced this standard against Daniel Chapter One over the past 30 years, hundreds of people who provide testimony that Daniel Chapter One products improved or even saved their lives may not have survived," the organization said.
"The Constitution allows individuals to make potentially risky choices for themselves. The FTC does not. Instead, the FTC makes highly risky choices for consumers who have no way to object," the organization said. "Daniel Chapter One's goal is to help people honestly and the help of consumers will be crucial to take this historic stand."
chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 15:44 GMT FDA Unleashes Mass by Mike Adams (NaturalNews) The FDA has announced that beginning today, spinach and lettuce sold across the United States may now be secretly irradiated before it reaches grocery store shelves. What's "secret" about it? The FDA previously decided that irradiation warning stickers would not be required on any food items because it would be "too confusing to consumers." (The word IRRADIATION apparently has too many letters to be understood to food buyers.) Thus, irradiated foods will not be labeled as such, and consumers are going to be left in the dark about all this (except for those who actually eat the irradiated food, in which case they will glow in the dark).
The FDA, of course, insists that the levels of irradiation used to kill e.coli will have no effect whatsoever on the nutritional value of the food. This astonishing statement comes from an agency that doesn't believe food has any nutritional value in the first place, so lowering the value to zero by destroying all the phytonutrients does not, in the opinion of the FDA, alter its nutritional value at all. Thus, destroying all the anti-cancer nutrients in a head of broccoli merely brings that broccoli into "compliance" as a non-functional food, according to the FDA.
Radiation, of course, destroys delicate phytochemicals in plants -- the very phytochemicals protecting consumers against cancer, heart disease, high cholesterol, inflammation and other diseases. Microwaving broccoli, for example, destroys up to 98% of its anti-cancer nutrients. (The FDA has not yet acknowledged this scientific fact, either.) In a similar way, irradiating food destroys much of its nutritional content, including vitamins, carotenoids, anthocyanins and other delicate protective nutrients that are right now providing the last, desperate nutritional defense against the American diet of meat, milk, fried foods and processed junk.
Irradiating fresh produce will leave the U.S. population is a state of extreme deficiency in protective plant-based nutrients.
Does the FDA plan to destroy the health of the U.S. population? Many people suspect that's what the FDA really wants. A nutritionally- deficient, disease-ridden population would mean a windfall of profits for the FDA's buddies in Big Pharma -- the folks who sell patented medications at monopoly prices. With the food supply destroyed by radiation, ordinary people would have virtually no remaining sources of protective phytonutrients!
In promoting this food radiation policy, the FDA has accomplished what all the terrorists in the world could not: The mass irradiation of the U.S. food supply -- much like setting off a dirty bomb over the nation's farms (but with less radiation). This destruction of the nutritional value of the food supply is a far greater threat to the health of the U.S. population than any terrorist event, including 9/11. And yet it is being done by our own people, TO our own people, by a lawless agency that answers to no one. FDA officials are not voted into office by the People; they are appointed by politicians. They answer to no one, they refuse to follow federal law, and they operate as tyrants over a quarter of the U.S. economy.
And now they have taken it upon themselves to destroy the national food supply.
We should be more than just alarmed -- we should be outraged! The FDA has committed an act of war against the People. With this decision, the FDA has firmly positioned itself as an enemy of the People, and a bringer of death and disease to the nation. Why are our elected representatives in Washington allowing this madness?
Think about this: If the FDA has its way:
• All your food will be irradiated, pasteurized or killed • All your children will be vaccinated • All your medicine will be based on pharmaceuticals • All your free speech about health will be suppressed • All informative labeling on food and supplements will be outlawed • Growing and selling non-irradiated garden vegetables will become a crime!
Today it's spinach and lettuce; tomorrow it's all fresh produce Don't think the FDA will stop with spinach and lettuce, either. They're already talking about irradiating tomatoes, peppers and onions. Before long, radiation could become mandatory for ALL fresh produce, and all the fresh fruits and vegetables that are supposed to contain health-protecting nutrients will be transformed into sterile, inert plant mass with no health benefits at all. (Brilliant scam, huh?)
This is by design. I believe the FDA wants the American public to be sickened and diseased. Why else would they ban Free Speech about healing foods like cherries, broccoli and garlic? Why would they outlaw the selling of herbs and nutritional supplements that claim to treat and prevent disease? The FDA wants you to be sick, enslaved and medicated, and irradiating the food supply is the quickest way to accomplish that.
He who controls the food controls the People.
He who destroys the food can profit from the People's sickness.
The FDA's crimes against humanity In pushing this radiation agenda, the FDA is committing a crime against humanity -- a nutritional atrocity that violates fundamental human rights. And yet the FDA's top decision makers continue to operate with zero oversight and zero accountability. They make decisions in a corporate-sponsored vacuum, absent any input from reasonable, health-conscious consumers or scientists. And because they have been granted tyrannical powers by Congress, the FDA operates above the law.
It is not subject to any laws whatsoever; not even the U.S. Constitution which is supposed to protect the People's right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" (as stated in the Declaration of Independence) .
The mass irradiation of the food supply is a violation of the "Life" part of that phrase, wouldn't you agree? If we can no longer buy nourishing foods with their nutrients intact, then we are all doomed to degenerative disease and death... but not before paying out our life savings to doctors, drug companies and hospitals. That's the evil genius of the food irradiation plot: It kills you slowly, at just the right pace to drain your bank account before you expire from malnutrition.
I truly believe this irradiation of the food supply is the beginning of the end of America. No nation can survive the destruction of its food supply. The FDA is dooming America to a slow, painful, medicated death. In a generation, this nation will be lost, destroyed from within by short-sighted tyrants who violated nature and left the People to rot.
What you can do right now to fight this latest transgression by the FDA For starters, you can:
1) Grow your own food. A little gardening is good. Grow whatever you can, even if it's just a few kitchen herbs.
2) Buy your food at farmer's markets, coops and CSAs. See http://www.localhar vest.org/ csa
3) Ask your grocery store if they are buying irradiated spinach. If they don't know, demand they find out!
4) Raise hell with your Senators and Congresspeople, demanding they pass new laws protecting consumers from the FDA and its plot to destroy the nutritional value of the food supply.
Also, listen to two podcasts I've posted on this topic. The first was recorded several months ago, where I publicly predicted the FDA would do exactly what we're seeing right now. Listen to that podcast here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/Index- Podcas...
The second podcast was just posted today. I recorded it right before writing this article. It goes into much greater detail about the FDA's plot to destroy the health of the U.S. population. You can listen to that here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/Index- Podcas...
Finally, don't stand for this food supply madness! Raise your voice. Write your local paper, call your representatives in Washington and tell them you strongly oppose the irradiation of the food supply. Teach people about phytonutrients. And stay tuned to NaturalNews as we continue to cover this important story.
The FDA has gone mad. Criminally mad. It is an agency that will literally kill you if given the chance, and it is up to all of us to stop this madness before we lose our health, our children and our very nation.
Paul - 25 Aug 2008 17:35 GMT On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:44:15 -0400, chardonney9 <chardonney9@notearthlink.net>, in message ID <geudnf9wDL-kWC_VnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@earthlink.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>FDA Unleashes Mass by Mike Adams >(NaturalNews) The FDA has announced that beginning today, spinach and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >(except for those who actually eat the irradiated food, in which case >they will glow in the dark). Another way of knowing that it's been irradiated is that it won't make you fart.
Cactus Jammies - 25 Aug 2008 20:43 GMT What's this got to do with Hepatitis C? Now that we're off topic, a former friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker. She worked for a local company that sold the stuff, but from arm's length in a juridiction outside the USA where the distributors could not be reached by US laws. I said she swallowed it. Literally. Apparently one of the delivery systems for colloidal silver comprises small hollow silver balls that are to be ingested orally, then waiting for the digestion and elimination process to run it's course, then plucked from the 'patients' fecal matter and washed and re-used.
cactus jammies
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:44:15 -0400, chardonney9 > <chardonney9@notearthlink.net>, in message ID [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Another way of knowing that it's been irradiated is that it won't make > you fart. chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 22:44 GMT > What's this got to do with Hepatitis C? Now that we're off topic, a former > friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker. She > worked for a local company that sold the stuff, but from arm's length in a > juridiction outside the USA where the distributors could not be reached by > US laws. It's made in the US all over the place. That isn't illegal.
I said she swallowed it. Literally. Apparently one of the
> delivery systems for colloidal silver comprises small hollow silver balls > that are to be ingested orally, then waiting for the digestion and > elimination process to run it's course, then plucked from the 'patients' > fecal matter and washed and re-used. Sounds like you were the one swallowing a story. Char
> cactus jammies Waterspider - 26 Aug 2008 23:17 GMT >> What's this got to do with Hepatitis C? Now that we're off topic, a >> former friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Sounds like you were the one swallowing a story. > Char Please don't embarrass yourself further by suggesting that someone else might have "swallowed a story." You are the champ.
Waterspider - 26 Aug 2008 23:18 GMT "chardonney9" <chardonney9@notearthlink.net> cut-and-pasted from uncredible sources... <snip>
Paranoia will destroy ya.
Waterspider - 20 Jul 2008 05:19 GMT For Chardonney9. This isn't colloidal silver, but you'll find great potential here for an alternative treatment of your hepatitis c. http://www.skepticreport.com/lighterside/bluefairies.htm
Sara - 20 Jul 2008 05:49 GMT > For Chardonney9. This isn't colloidal silver, but you'll find great > potential here for an alternative treatment of your hepatitis c. > http://www.skepticreport.com/lighterside/bluefairies.htm heh :) blue fairies.... blue heppers....
bring on the blue meanies!
S past her bedtime and silly now
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 00:56 GMT > And > of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_panacea.htm
The FDA's Panacea
It is strange that we do not speak about Hitlers in the plural, as we speak about Quislings. The small Hitlers are around us every day, tormenting us with their promises, rejoicing in our weaknesses, demanding our trust, our lives, while remaining totally indifferent to everything except their thirst for power.
—Robert Payne, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler
Answering a knock at the door of his Lake Charles, Louisiana, home about 8:30 a.m. on September 17, 2003, the man found three U.S. marshals with semiautomatic weapons who wanted to know if he was Greg Caton. When he said yes, they asked him to step out of the house and handcuffed his hands behind his back, claiming they had a warrant to search his home.
“Search for what?” he asked.
“First of all, we need to know where the battery acid is,” one marshal replied.
“Battery acid?” Caton exclaimed. “I don’t have any battery acid in my home.”
The marshals entered the house, taking him along, and sat him down, handcuffed, while they searched. Other marshals assisted, until, Caton estimates, eight of them were going through his home. He asked no fewer than four times to call his attorney, but they refused to allow it. When he asked why, since he’d been arrested, their reply was, “You’re not arrested—you’re a detainee.”
“This, to me, was the most amazing thing of all,” Caton says, “as if somehow that wording changes what is in fact happening. When I brought that up to my defense attorney, he said, ‘They’re not supposed to do that.’ I said, ‘Well, can’t we do something about it?’ He said, ‘No, because it’s your word against theirs—they can do whatever they want.’ ”
* * *
Greg Caton was a victim of “Operation Cure.All,” an initiative begun in 2001 by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the Federal Trade Commission. A press release on the FTC’s web site says, “FTC, FDA and other law enforcement agencies move to stop Internet scams for supplements and other products that purport to cure cancer, HIV/AIDS and countless other life-threatening diseases.” Unfortunately, the FDA has used this as an excuse to shut down businesses and arrest people whose products, though not recognized by conventional medicine, actually work—and are inexpensive and have few, if any, side effects.
At the time of the raid, Greg Caton, an herbalist and inventor, was founder and president of three companies. One, Lumen Foods, made soyfood products. Another, Preservx, made a food preservative Caton invented and patented that can be used in much smaller quantities than other preservatives. The third, Alpha Omega Labs, sold what the FDA and conventional medicine call “unproven” remedies for cancer and other health problems.
Many of these remedies Caton and his wife, Cathryn, a naturopathic doctor, had developed, some based on old formulas registered with the U.S. Patent Office. His web site, www.altcancer.com, contains extensive information and advice on dealing with cancer and other illnesses. The site says, “our primary focus is on ‘plant medicines’ that are proven to meet three criteria: (1) They must work, (2) They must be safe, and (3) They must be sufficiently inexpensive so that the average worker can afford the product(s) without distress.” He offered a money-back guarantee on everything he sold.
Alpha Omega’s first product and one of its most popular, Cansema Salve, contains chaparral, a traditional remedy for cancer, along with zinc chloride and other ingredients to facilitate its action. Starting with that one product, Caton built up his line to 350 or so items, some of which he had traveled the world to find. He had about a hundred thousand customers worldwide and grossed about a million dollars a year.
One product he carried was called hydronium, or H3O, a weak solution of “scalar energized” sulfuric acid used for a variety of topical applications, such as skin funguses, bites and burns, sore throat, and disinfectant. Caton is refreshingly candid on his web site, and in the case of H3O, this may have gotten him into trouble. In an extensive discussion, he says, “This is a solution you can easily swallow (more comfortably if diluted to a pH of 2.0, granted) at acidic levels, which, if we were talking about any other acid in the 0.0 to 0.5 pH range, would have potentially severe health consequences.”
Caton’s web site has testimonials about H3O—as it does about many of his products. He sold thousands of bottles to customers all over the world and hadn’t received a single complaint. Until, that is, a woman in Indiana used Alpha Omega’s Cansema Salve and H3O and a product from another company for what appeared to be a cancer on her nose and suffered damage. She filed a lawsuit against both companies, but an affidavit filed eight months after the raid doesn’t mention Alpha Omega or its products.
Alpha Omega’s records indicate that a year and a half after the incident with her nose, she attempted to return the H3O and another product, H3x, unopened. Alpha Omega declined, because the product was more than three months old, but the question arises how she could have suffered harm from the H3O if she never opened it. She also bought two more jars of Cansema Salve more than a year after the incident with her nose and returned them unopened for a refund two months later. Caton’s attorney points out, in a document filed with the court, that of the two companies involved, Alpha Omega “is the only insured party.”
Around the same time, a surgeon in Texas used H3O as a disinfectant to rinse out the site of a partial hysterectomy he performed. The patient developed “various complications,” according to the lawsuit she filed, which she blamed on the H3O “as well as the care and treatment” by the surgeon, the hospital, and the holding company that owned the hospital. In an August 2002 letter, a year before the raid on Alpha Omega, the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners cleared the doctor of wrongdoing after an investigation, saying “the evidence does not indicate a violation of the Texas Medical Practice Act.”
These were the only lawsuits filed against Alpha Omega during its decade in business. From the FDA’s point of view, however, Caton was cynically selling battery acid and other dangerous products to unsuspecting customers, and he had to be stopped.
Caton says that the manufacturer’s safety data sheet (MSDS) and skin sensitivity test for H3O show that on human tissue, the product has the same corrosivity or causticity as water. Although neither document says this in so many words, the erythema/edema (skin redness/swelling) test, done on six rabbits by a testing laboratory in New Jersey, does show no discernible effect in two cases and a “very slight” or “barely perceptible” effect in four cases after twenty-four hours.
After seventy-two hours, no effect is discernible in any of them. The report says that the product “is not considered a primary skin irritant according to 29 CFR, Section 1910.1200. App A (1), 2001.” H3O was sold as a concentrate and was used in this form for the tests. Used as directed, it would be diluted approximately one hundred twenty-eight times (one ounce to a gallon of water).
The MSDS presumably intends to convey the same message but doesn’t do it quite so clearly. It says the product is “Non corrosive per 49 CFR 173.136,” that no labels are required, and that it “Contains no hazardous ingredients according to these citations.” Under “Effects of chronic over exposure,” it says “None” for eyes, skin, and inhalation and that ingestion is “Not a likely source of exposure. Dilute with milk or water.”
On the other hand, the sheet also says, “May be harmful if swallowed” and “Keep out of eyes and off skin.” It says users should wear safety glasses or goggles and impermeable gloves and that “A well ventilated work environment is recommended.” This appears to be boilerplate language that would be reasonable for any chemical one worked with on a regular basis, as opposed to something used occasionally for therapeutic purposes. Again, this applies to the concentrated version.
* * *
At the same time the FDA was searching Caton’s home, other marshals were searching his business premises and several properties he owned in Lake Charles, much to the consternation of his employees and tenants. The government brought in trucks to Alpha Omega and confiscated large quantities of raw materials and finished products, which they subsequently destroyed—essentially finding him guilty before his case was even heard. The centerpiece of the operation was a special truck for transporting hazardous materials, with “Sulfuric Acid” signs on the sides, which they used to haul away the H3O.
Cathryn Caton had been at the gym that morning for a workout, along with the Catons’ seven-year-old son, and arrived home just as Caton was being arrested. A neighbor who saw what was happening came out and took charge of their son, so Cathryn could respond to the situation inside.
The Lake Charles police chief, a former FBI agent, had also arrived, Caton says in a letter, and “told me to my face that he could ‘rip up the floors and tear out the walls’ if ‘we don’t get what we’re looking for.’ I will never forget this as long as I live. I was sitting at the West facing end of my dining room table with handcuffs on behind my back when he told me. I was really, really concerned that they were going to destroy our home.”
As it turned out, Caton was not only a detainee but an arrestee, and he was sent to the parish jail. “Jail” conjures up the image of a couple of cells in a police station or behind the sheriff’s office in an Old West frontier town, but in fact, Lafayette Parish Correctional Center is a prison, where Caton was held for two months without being charged and for another six after that, without bail, on the premise that he was a flight risk.
The government threatened to arrest Cathryn Caton and to file Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) charges against her, Greg, and their employees, on the basis, Caton says, “that AO labs was huge conspiracy to hurt the public with dangerous drugs.” They also threatened to arrest his employees as unindicted co-conspirators. (In fact, two of his Lumen Foods employees were subsequently arrested on drug charges. Caton doesn’t know if these were justified or not.)
The prospect of both Catons in prison carried the implicit threat of foster care for their seven-year-old son. Because of this, the Catons signed papers appointing Cathryn’s brother, in Texas, guardian for their son. They then sent their son to live with him for the entire fall school semester.
Caton was a flight risk because, the FDA contended, he had three passports and a pilot’s license and had flown as recently as the previous month (August 2003). They also claimed two guns he had in his home were for the purpose of harming federal agents. They made these claims in court, under oath, Caton says.
However, he didn’t have three passports—he had two, one of which had expired and was punched “VOID.” He didn’t have a pilot’s license—he had taken flying lessons, and the last time he had flown, according to the pilot’s log, was in August 2001, not 2003. The two guns were in his wife’s name, and they were purchased, he says, before Y2K, as a precaution. Nevertheless, when all the charges were added up, he potentially faced a long stretch in prison.
“They used perjurious statements to even raid my house to begin with,” Caton says. “They told a judge I was telling people to drink battery acid, and I’ve got the Department of Justice report to show that.” FDA agent John Armand was insistent about this in a meeting, Caton says, recounting their conversation.
“Yes, it’s battery acid. You know it’s battery acid. It’s sulfuric acid—it must be battery acid.”
“Would you like to see the MSDS sheet?” Caton asked.
“No, we don’t need to see that.”
“Would you like to see the skin sensitivity tests that were done in New Jersey, showing that this is completely noncaustic, noncorrosive?”
“You know that’s not what it is.”
Ultimately, the government offered Caton a plea bargain: one count of mail fraud, one count of introducing an unapproved new drug into interstate commerce, and forfeiture of all his commercial property.
The mail fraud charge was for selling the H3O. Despite the absurdity of the government’s claim that he was selling battery acid, why did they insist he plead to it? Caton has an answer for that. “It’s like the story of the guy who gets caught lying, and he looks you in the face, and he says to you, ‘That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.’ ” This obtuse, maddening attitude of a bureaucrat caught in an error or an outright lie ultimately came to be something of a grim joke for the Catons, illustrating the groundlessness of the government’s case.
Caton recounts that the FDA contacted the manufacturer of the H3O, asking how to dispose of the battery acid. The owner of the company told them it wasn’t battery acid and asked how they got that idea—a question they didn’t answer. The owner subsequently received a call from the hazmat disposal company the FDA had retained, asking how to dispose of it. His reply was that the easiest way was probably to drink it.
The charge of introducing a new drug into interstate commerce was for shipping a bottle of Cansema Tonic III to Plantation, Florida. The recipient wasn’t specified, but the FDA happens to have a field office there.
The government’s pièce de résistance was its demand that Caton forfeit all his commercial property, plus $950,000. The rationale was that funds from Alpha Omega had been commingled with those of his other two companies and had “tainted” them. The FDA arrived at the amount from an analysis of his financial records, which they’d also seized—it was ostensibly what he’d defrauded customers out of. His assets were worth only about half what they demanded, so they agreed to settle—for everything he had.
Caton owned three buildings. He’d already had to sell a building in which he had $500,000 in equity, as well as the Preservx company (now called Global Preservatives) and its associated patent, for “pennies on the dollar” to pay his legal bills. Of the remaining three buildings, one was where Alpha Omega and Lumen Foods were located. Another was a storefront building. The third was a house, worth about $45,000, that he’d intended to sell to one of his assistants. Altogether, the buildings were worth about $400,000, although he owed about $180,000 on the mortgages. The FDA was going to let him keep his home and the processing equipment for Lumen Foods.
Caton wasn’t sure whether the government would sell the buildings or let him continue to lease from them. He estimated that if they sold, they might end up with $150,000—not much for all the paper shuffling involved. However, it had emerged earlier that the FDA believed Caton had large sums of money stashed in offshore accounts. In fact, Caton has reliable information that the night before the raid, fourteen federal and local agents had a party at a local casino, celebrating what they thought would be a large haul the next day—which, he says, their departments would have shared in.
As it turned out, there were no offshore accounts. Caton is not a rich man, although he probably could have become one from his cancer remedies alone. He had fulfilled the three criteria he and his wife had established when they founded the company: his products worked, they were safe, and he charged reasonable prices. His customers’ many testimonials confirmed this. Ironically, his generosity had cost him dearly, because he’d had to scramble just to cover his legal expenses. On the other hand, of course, if he’d had more money, the FDA would have just taken it.
The belief that he had large offshore bank accounts may actually have been one of the factors motivating the FDA’s raid. Caton, who has become something of an unwilling expert on the subject (his eight months in jail gave him a lot of time to read), points out a quotation in a book by William Blum, Rogue State: A Guide to the World’s Only Superpower:
“The DEA, other federal and state agencies and police are seizing houses, boats, cars, airplanes, real estate, furnishings, bank accounts and other assets belonging to people suspected of involvement in drug trafficking, or belonging to their spouses, often without a conviction and whether or not the assets seized were tied to the alleged crime. . . . The government agencies are selling these assets and using the proceeds for anything from patrol cars to parties. The expected value of forfeitures is at times a determining factor in the question of who to raid. Police are routinely planting drugs and falsifying police reports to establish probable cause for cash seizures. . . . As of early 1999, there was $2.7 billion in the federal government’s ‘Asset Forfeiture Fund’ alone.” (p. 270–1)
Caton also points to a letter in the the April 15, 2004, Wall Street Journal that quotes former judge John Yoder, first head of the Justice Department's Asset Forfeiture Office in the Reagan administration:
“When I set up the Asset Forfeiture Office, I thought I could use my position to help protect citizens’ rights, and tried to insure that the U.S. Department of Justice went after big time drug dealers and big time criminals, rather than minor offenders and innocent property owners. Today, overzealous government agents and prosecutors will not think twice about seizing a yacht or a car if they find two marijuana cigarettes in it, regardless of where they came from. I am now ashamed of, and scared of the monster I helped to create.”
* * *
Reading through the thirty-eight pages of the eight-part plea agreement, one cannot but be struck by the monstrous fabrications, profound cynicism, and complete imperviousness to reason they display. The agreement claims Caton knowingly created “a scheme and artifice to defraud purchasers” and that “to facilitate the scheme and the artifice to defraud, the defendant purchased buildings at the two locations described.” So he didn’t just own the buildings—he purchased them deliberately to defraud people.
It’s hard to decide which is worse—that the government actually believes this or that they knew it was ridiculous and went ahead with it anyway. One thinks of Bob Dylan: “How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn’t see?” Can one seriously believe, looking at the depth of information on Caton’s web site, the extent of the knowledge it reflects, the variety of products, the hundreds of testimonials, that he’s out to defraud people—unless one were already predisposed to view any alternative treatment as a fraud?
The potential prison time for the plea bargain was five years for the mail fraud and three years for introducing an unapproved new drug, but the government told him that realistically, he was looking at 41–47 months, less time served. Also, his cooperation with the FBI gave the judge considerable downward discretion.
Cathryn Caton had sent out an appeal to Alpha Omega customers, asking for letters—testimonials, character references, requests for leniency—to present to the judge. She received a barrage of emails that, when printed out, yielded a two-inch-thick stack of letters.
The judge was already quite sympathetic. At the hearing where Caton entered his plea—after eight months in the parish jail—the judge pointed at him and said to the prosecutor, “Why is this man still in jail?” (Caton had previously appeared before two other judges.) The judge then released him on bond. As Caton put it, “This judge does not like prosecutorial misconduct, and this thing has got misconduct written all over it.”
Not content with destroying Caton’s livelihood and holding him in prison, the FDA proceeded to assail his reputation by giving the Associated Press a story that ran in Lake Charles and Lafayette papers. It gave the FDA’s version, quoting government officials and the attorney for the woman who had named Caton in her complaint but omitted him from her affidavit. The articles made him look only slightly less reprehensible than an axe murderer. Neither Caton nor his lawyer was contacted for their side.
At the sentencing hearing, the judge rejected the prosecution’s contention that Caton had intended to cause harm with his products and sentenced him to the minimum possible under the sentencing guidelines: 33 months, which he'll do in a minimum-security prison. With time served and good behavior he’ll do 20, of which the last six may be in a halfway house.
In all, Greg Caton estimates, the FDA took $250,000 worth of materials and $400,000 worth of buildings. This doesn’t include what he lost in the distress sale of Preservx and the one building he sold, his legal fees—which amounted to $50,000 for the criminal charges alone—or the ongoing revenue from Preservx and Alpha Omega.
After Caton was arrested, his wife had T-shirts made up. The front says, “I survived an FDA raid on September 17, 2003.” The back is like a rock band’s tour schedule, but instead of concert dates, it says “Other FDA survivors,” then “In remembrance of Dr. Royal Rife, Harry Hoxsey and all others that have contributed to alternative healing methods and for the freedom of choice.” This is followed by the names of eight victims of FDA raids, the last being Greg Caton’s. At the bottom is a picture of Uncle Sam pointing outward, with the caption “Coming soon to a city near you.”
“One of the sacred principles of American life is that private property is respected,” Caton says. “I don’t even want citizenship in a country that’s capable of doing this. I’m a manufacturer. I have equipment, I have inventory—raw goods, finished goods, goods in process, goods already prepared to ship that are on the bay door waiting to go out. You can’t run a business if the principle of private property isn’t respected.
“If you’re an herbalist and you do what we do for a living, and you have extensive knowledge and you’re very good at what you do, if at any given time they can just come in and take your property, real property, take equipment, take inventory, take goods—just take it all, like they did in my case—you can’t operate in that kind of an environment.
“We’ve reached a point in our journey on the road to becoming a police state where federal agents can get up on the stand, they can raise their hand, they’re under oath, they can lie in the most egregious ways, and I guess judges aren’t going to do anything about it. I brought this up to two different defense attorneys, and it was like, blasé—looking at me as if, ‘Are you naïve? So what? They lied—so what? Do you never get out of the house? Don’t you know what’s going on?’ That was the real mindblower in this whole situation: there’s nothing special about me or my case. This goes on all the time.”
While Greg Caton was in jail, FDA agent John Armand told one of Caton’s lawyers that he’d been getting calls from all over the world, from people who had used Alpha Omega’s products, protesting what had happened. Cathryn Caton had been getting calls too, from customers crying, saying nothing else worked and that it was a matter of life and death. She referred them to the FDA.
* * *
Although asset forfeiture may have been on the FDA’s mind when they went after Caton, they’ve been raiding proponents of alternative remedies for decades—since long before asset forfeiture was an option or the term “alternative remedies” even existed. The FDA, in fact, has a long and distinguished history of ruthlessly exterminating anything that competes with conventional treatment, particularly for cancer.
It’s been observed that the FDA is heavily influenced by the medical and pharmaceutical industries. Its favoritism had become so flagrant that, as James Carter, M.D., points out in Racketeering in Medicine, “In June, 1990, Marvin Seife, the former head of the FDA’s generic drug division, was the fifth FDA official to be indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of perjury. . . . Four of Seife’s former employees at FDA have already been convicted on corruption and racketeering charges. Five industry executives, three companies and one consultant have been convicted of similar charges.” (p. 165)
Conflicts of interest are still rampant, as a September 25, 2000, article in USA Today points out: “More than half of the experts hired to advise the government on the safety and effectiveness of medicine have financial relationships with the pharmaceutical companies that will be helped or hurt by their decisions.”
And as Shannon Brownlee reports in the April 2004 Washingtonian, “More than 60 percent of clinical studies—those involving human subjects—are now funded not by the federal government, but by the pharmaceutical and biotech industries. That means that the studies published in scientific journals like Nature and The New England Journal of Medicine . . . are increasingly likely to be designed, controlled, and sometimes even ghost-written by marketing departments, rather than academic scientists.”
Considering the FDA’s enforcement efforts, or lack thereof, toward pharmaceutical manufacturers, its insistence on a mail fraud charge for Caton’s H3O seems more than a little hypocritical, A study in the April 15, 1998, Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reports that 76,000–137,000 people die each year from adverse drug reactions.
Despite this, according to the February 2003 Consumer Reports, the number of warning letters the FDA sends to drug manufacturers “about false or misleading drug ads has dropped precipitously, from more than 100 per year in the late 1990s to just 24 as of November 2002.” A drug company’s misleading ad campaign may have run its course before the FDA gets around to sending a warning letter, if it does at all.
The listing of warning letters on the FDA’s web site shows that the downward trend has continued to the present. (The Consumer Reports article also details a number of other questionable practices by the industry.) Even drugs with proven harmful or fatal effects are merely taken off the market. The manufacturer is not raided, its assets are not seized, and its officers do not do time.
Like the pharmaceutical industry, the medical establishment is not blameless in attempting to suppress alternative remedies. In 1976, in what came to be known as the Wilk case, several Chicago-area chiropractors sued the American Medical Association (AMA), which they claimed had conspired to destroy their profession. The case went on for fifteen years, in the course of which nearly a million pages of documents, many from the AMA’s files, were disclosed.
As author John Robbins put it, “It was revealed quite clearly that, for many years, the AMA had deliberately and systematically conspired to destroy not only chiropractic, but midwifery, homeopathy, naturopathy, and herbalism. The whole collection of what we call wholistic and alternative medicine had been the AMA’s target for destruction.” The case ultimately went to the U.S. Supreme Court, and the chiropractors won.
The medical and pharmaceutical industries’ interest in disparaging alternative treatment is understandable. Several studies published in medical journals point out that the number of visits per year to alternative practitioners now exceeds visits to conventional physicians, with most people paying out of their own pockets. This has been going on since at least 1990 and is due to more people “seeking alternative therapies, rather than increased visits per patient,” according to a 1998 study in JAMA. Clearly, all these people can’t be dupes of scam artists.
* * *
Considering that half of American men and a third of American women will come down with cancer, the question must be asked: whom is the FDA “protecting”? The agency has effectively become the enforcement branch of the medical and pharmaceutical industries, which want to preserve the status quo. The pharmaceutical industry can’t make any money on natural remedies, and the doctors don’t want to lose the vast amounts of funding poured into cancer research.
It’s been said that those with serious illnesses are vulnerable to fraud, and some may be—although they’re equally vulnerable to a doctor’s pitch for conventional treatment that doesn’t work. But unlike in decades past, virtually everyone now has access to a wide variety of health information on the Internet—and they’re using it.
A survey in 2000 by the Pew Internet & American Life Project shows that “fifty-two million American adults, or 55% of those with Internet access, have used the Web to get health or medical information.” Of these, 91% “have looked for material related to a physical illness.” And “for the 21 million health seekers who say they were swayed by what they read online the last time they sought health information . . . 70% said the Web information influenced their decision about how to treat an illness or condition.”
People are looking elsewhere because they’re realizing that the Western approach is expensive, debilitating, and often ineffective—that it treats the symptoms rather than the cause. We’re in the middle of a changing paradigm—changing from the concept of attacking disease to one of eliminating it by restoring balance.
Surely we, as adults, have the right to choose the type of healthcare treatment available to us without the government unilaterally eliminating our options. Isn’t it time for the FDA to heed what the patient at one alternative cancer clinic said to them during a raid? “We’re all adults here, making free-will choices. Why don’t you get out of here and leave us alone?”
Aside from restricting our healthcare choices, what justifies the FDA’s gestapo/KGB tactics in smashing, intimidating, demoralizing, and bankrupting its targets, even before a trial to determine their guilt or innocence? What justifies seizing their assets, impounding their computers and business records, confiscating their personal papers and effects, destroying their products and ingredients, and holding them in prison for extended periods? Very few people can do what Caton and others like him have done. It takes tremendous initiative to come up with a product that works, make it available commercially, and assume the risks of being put out of business and perhaps imprisoned by the FDA.
Perhaps most important, Caton resisted the temptation to get rich on other people’s suffering, which can’t be said of the pharmaceutical industry. He could have made much more money and put enough away to cover his eventual ruinous legal expenses—but he didn’t. Shouldn’t we be encouraging and rewarding people like this rather than persecuting them and destroying their lives?
greyhackles - 25 Jul 2008 01:52 GMT Um, ok, this is gonna sound harsh, but after all that bullshit you've posted, the image you've conjured is: "Dead Woman Walking".
Good luck to you, anyway...
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:45 GMT > Um, ok, this is gonna sound harsh, but after all that bullshit you've posted, > the image you've conjured is: "Dead Woman Walking". > > Good luck to you, anyway... If CS is so toxic why doesn't the FDA have records of it?
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 01:02 GMT > And > of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/forbidden_fruit.htm
The Forbidden Fruit
Jason Vale, a New Yorker and former arm-wrestling champion, used apricot seeds to cure his own cancer and then began selling them on the Internet, along with injectable laetrile. It does sound ludicrous at first, but the idea has been around since the fifties, and the medical profession has been ridiculing it and trying to stamp it out for just as long, without success. Apricot seeds contain a cyanide compound that targets cancer cells.
In Vale’s case, at least, the FDA sent him warning letters. He subsequently signed a consent decree saying he would stop, but he continued selling. He was tried for violating the consent decree, convicted, and sentenced to five years and three months. With time served and good behavior, it could be about half that.
According to one report of the sentencing, the judge said he didn’t believe the numerous letters he had received, in which satisfied customers of Vale’s claimed the apricot seeds had “saved them,” and that some letters were “over the top” in alleging an FDA–pharmaceutical industry conspiracy. Although Vale’s conviction was for violating the consent decree, his imprisonment is ultimately a result of selling apricot seeds as a cure for cancer. Vale’s case is documented on his web site, www.seedoffaith.com.
Upon Vale’s conviction in 2003, the FDA issued a press release, which quotes then FDA commissioner Mark McClellan: “The FDA takes seriously its responsibility to protect patients from unproven products being peddled on the internet by modern day snake oil salesmen such as the defendant in this case. There is no scientific evidence that Laetrile offers anything but false hope to cancer patients.” The press release also quotes prosecuting U.S. attorney Roslynn Mauskopf: “This office will not tolerate any disregard for the lawful orders of this Court. Nor will it tolerate fraud, especially when it foists dangerous products on a vulnerable public.”
These sanctimonious, Soviet-style pronouncements merely repeat the conventional line about laetrile. Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC) in New York, the nation’s largest cancer treatment facility, has claimed for decades (and still claims, on its web site) that “research has demonstrated only the absence of beneficial effect” for apricot seeds, otherwise known as amygdalin, laetrile, and vitamin B17.
However, Ralph Moss, Ph.D., who was assistant director of public affairs at MSKCC for five years in the mid-seventies, noticed during his time there that the institution’s claim about laetrile’s ineffectiveness contradicted what its own research showed. When he pointed this out, he was fired.
Moss went on to write books about alternative approaches to cancer and other health problems, pointing out the substantial representation of pharmaceutical, petrochemical, and automotive industry executives on the MSKCC boards of directors and managers. He cites this as the reason for MSKCC’s persistent lack of interest in natural remedies for cancer (which would conflict with the pharmaceutical industry’s agenda) or environmental causes of cancer (to which the petrochemical and automotive industries contribute significantly).
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 01:04 GMT And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a > huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that > will REALLY cure our ills..... (gag) http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_cozy_relationship.htm The FDA's Cozy Little Relationship
Relationships between the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry have led to a “revolving door,” in which pharmaceutical executives go to work for the FDA, making regulatory decisions on matters affecting their industry and sometimes even their own former companies. When their time at the FDA is over, they go back to higher-paying jobs in the industry.
A web search for “FDA revolving door” turns up numerous examples, but it’s no longer necessary even to go to the trouble. The revolving door was formalized in 2001, with the creation of the Food and Drug Administration Alumni Association (FDAAA).
The FDAAA’s web site says the group is “a non-profit, non-lobbying organization dedicated to serving those who have supported the consumer protection mission of the U.S. FDA.” Oddly, however, pharmaceutical industry lobbyists and p.r. people are well represented on its board of directors.
Among the FDAAA's goals are to “enable former colleagues to stay current on major scientific and regulatory issues facing FDA, educate the public about the vital work of the FDA . . . ,” and “assist FDA in recruiting alumni with specialized expertise and institutional knowledge during critical situations.” The web site also says that the FDAAA’s “core mission is to help alumni stay in touch with the issues of the day facing FDA and support the Agency’s public health mission through expertise-sharing, training and outreach opportunities.”
The FDAAA’s revenue “is primarily derived from member dues and outside contributions.” As far as outside contributions go, “support from other persons and institutions is welcome.” To facilitate recruiting alumni, the home page has industry job postings—and the site can be accessed from a link on the FDA’s site. The FDAAA’s logo incorporates the FDA’s logo. In fact, the FDAAA’s office is in the same building as FDA headquarters in Maryland. Its motto is “Serving Those Who Have Served.”
The chairman of the FDAAA, John C. Villforth, writes in the organization’s first newsletter (November 2002) that in looking into the idea of an alumni group, “we discovered that NIH, SSA, HCFA and Congress, among others, have active alumni associations; other agencies such as NRC, EPA and OSHA do not.” Perhaps it didn’t occur to them that the latter three, like the FDA, are regulatory agencies and may not have thought it appropriate for their officials to be fraternizing with employees of the industry they regulate.
Villforth is on the board of directors of Vasogen, which makes heart drugs, and EduNeering, which provides regulatory compliance “learning solutions.” He has also been on the boards of other medical companies.
A few other examples:
The FDAAA’s treasurer and chairman of the finance committee, Jerome A. Halperin, is president and CEO of the Food and Drug Law Institute (FDLI). FDLI’s web site says its “500+ members comprise manufacturers and suppliers of medicines . . . medical devices, food and cosmetics . . . law firms, consulting firms, associations, and others.” Interestingly, the stated goals of the FDLI, according to its web site, are quite similar to those of the FDAAA: “providing high quality education and a neutral forum for the generation of ideas and discussion of law and public policy for its legal, policy and regulatory communities.” Halperin was formerly vice president of technology for CIBA-GEIGY (now Novartis) and in 2001 was appointed to the board of directors of PharmQuest, which provides software to accelerate drug development.
James S. Benson, a member of the FDAAA board of directors, is also on the board of Medical Device Consultants, “a leading consulting and contract research organization for the medical device industry,” according to the press release announcing his appointment to that company’s board. He was formerly executive vice president for technology and regulatory affairs at AdvaMed (formerly HIMA), which he has described as “a trade association that represents more than 800 manufacturers of medical devices, diagnostic products, and medical information systems.” The press release said Benson was the “lead strategist for the association’s regulatory agenda.” FDAAA board member Elizabeth Jacobson is executive vice president of AdvaMed.
Wayne L. Pines, another FDAAA board member and chairman of the activities committee, is “president of regulatory services and health care” for APCO, a “global communication consultancy”—a p.r. firm. Pines “provides strategic counsel to clients facing crises or media, legislative, regulatory or marketing problems.” Board member Gerald F. Meyer is a senior consultant at AAC Consulting Group, which, its web site says, “provides a full range of support and compliance assistance. . . . offers a team of former high-level FDA officials and industry experts.”
For those who might be suspicious of all this togetherness between the FDA and employees and board members of the industries it ostensibly regulates, the FDAAA has a code of ethics. Unfortunately, its lofty-sounding but carefully worded constructions do not inspire confidence. It says, for example, that members aren’t allowed to “influence FDA policy or action in a manner other than that which [sic] any member of the general public is legally entitled.”
Of course, if you have personal access in a social setting to FDA regulatory officials who approve your product or could hire you or whom you might hire, you’re already in a more favorable position than “any member of the general public”—especially the small alternative businesses the FDA feels it has a mandate to persecute.
Members aren’t allowed to lobby, either—but they don’t need to lobby. They represent a community of interests. All they need to do is network—for example, at a wine tasting at the Bretton Woods Conference Center in October 2004—and they’re already way ahead. Whatever happened to the idea of avoiding even the appearance of impropriety?
Violations of the ethical code are reviewed by . . . the board of directors. If a violation is corroborated, the executive committee “may” impose sanctions, including warning, suspension, and expulsion. So the worst that can happen for an attempt to influence an FDA employee that’s so flagrant it can’t be ignored is expulsion from the organization.
Sara - 25 Jul 2008 01:27 GMT (snipped)
My apologies to this group for any part I had in pushing whatever buttons that got Chardonney9 going with these awful posts.
and I'm officially kill-filing her now. I can't read this garbage.
Sara
Cactus Jammies - 25 Jul 2008 01:34 GMT > (snipped) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sara Me too Sara. A nice healthy persecution complex sure helps to solidify a position on anything.
Cactus Jammies
Paul - 25 Jul 2008 02:03 GMT On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:04 -0400, "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com>, in message ID <_59ik.2497$dg.1666@fe097.usenetserver.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>(snipped) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Sara I did read the first of her posts in its entirety but skipped over the other two. I do share her concerns about the state being excessively authoritarian (even before reading her posts) but that is a separate issue from whether certain alternative medicines actually work. It could be read that a con artist was shut down by the state and stripped of the assets that were conned from people or it could be read that a generous helpful person who did it for love was abused by the state. Whichever view someone takes, being detained without charge for two months sounds outrageous. Here in the UK the time limit for detention without charge has recently increased to 42 days but that is supposed to only be implemented for offences connected to terrorism - the problem being that the state's definition of "terrorism" gets looser with time. Even without any terrorism evident, the time limit is 7 days (unless they changed that too). When you consider that in the 1970s, a charge had to be brought within 24 hours of arrest or the arrestee released, that's quite a change. However, although (IMO) it's reasonable to be concerned about such issues, that does deviate a long way from the main topic of this NG. It's also a concern as to whether the FDA have been bought off by drug companies. I guess we will never know but I believe such things are possible even though I am able to keep the "conspiracy theorist" side of me well below the level of unprovoked paranoia.
chardonney9 - 26 Jul 2008 13:07 GMT > I did read the first of her posts in its entirety but skipped over the > other two. I do share her concerns about the state being excessively > authoritarian (even before reading her posts) but that is a separate > issue from whether certain alternative medicines actually work. Yes it is. I was addressing Sara's statement that denied there was such a problem going on. Sorry to be redundant but if I posted just one it would simply have been picked apart. I could post more but I think I made my point.
It
> could be read that a con artist was shut down by the state and > stripped of the assets that were conned from people or it could be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > terrorism - the problem being that the state's definition of > "terrorism" gets looser with time. Feel fortunate. Here in the US, if they feel you are involved with terrorism they can and do lock you up for as long as they want, with no rights to a lawyer or speedy process of law. Some of them have come out of such detention beaten so severely that they are permanently disabled.
I can't believe this is happening here in this country where freedom is so cherished.
Even without any terrorism
> evident, the time limit is 7 days (unless they changed that too). When > you consider that in the 1970s, a charge had to be brought within 24 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > possible even though I am able to keep the "conspiracy theorist" side > of me well below the level of unprovoked paranoia. I think some of it will come out eventually. And to bring it back on topic, some of the remedies being denied by the FDA actually help with the side effects caused by the conventional treatments and if nothing else would be wonderful to have if only for that reason.
To deny a possible cure or help with sx just because the big drug companies can't control the profit is just plain wrong.
Cyndi
greyhackles - 27 Jul 2008 04:03 GMT The plural of "anecdote" is not "proof"...
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT > (snipped) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sara I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's easier to hide and not think isn't it?
Waterspider - 25 Jul 2008 20:43 GMT "chardonney9" <chardonney9@lalaland.net> proclaimed...
> I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's > easier to hide and not think isn't it? Yes, Chardonney, you're absolutely right. None of us know a damned thing about liver disease, hepatitis c and its treatment. We're all brainwashed by the pharmaceutical companies to believe that colloidal silver won't cure the disease and we've not done any research on our own, our doctors are all quacks and those of us cured by conventional treatment are just plain stupid for putting those evil drugs in our bodies. And we're all mean and nasty people, just unfairly picking on you because you're so much more intelligent and better educated than the rest of us. I repent, o wise one, I bow down to the great god Colloidal Silver! Oh please, Chardonnay, forgive us for being so blind. Please, oh please, save us!!
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 23:32 GMT > "chardonney9" <chardonney9@lalaland.net> proclaimed... >> I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > quacks and those of us cured by conventional treatment are just plain stupid > for putting those evil drugs in our bodies. There you go again, pretending you know what's in and on my mind.
I'm all for conventional treatments that work. I don't understand why any of you would think to try combining treatments. Closed minds is all I know. If the doctors were really interested in their patients I'd trust them a whole lot more. And I did discuss possibly going into a treatment program once the biopsy and viral count come back and someone actually tells me what it said and what it means.
The more you post the more I know that you've never considered that I may have some good points. This isn't a conversation it's a fairy tale, with the regulars here making up what I meant and what I actually said as you go along.
And we're all mean and nasty
> people, just unfairly picking on you because you're so much more intelligent > and better educated than the rest of us. Again, something I never said or even alluded to. Better educated in some areas obviously and not in others. It's a shame you can't really talk to me like a person and take into consideration that I might just know what I'm talking about. Your loss, not mine.
I repent, o wise one, I bow down to
> the great god Colloidal Silver! Oh please, Chardonnay, forgive us for being > so blind. Please, oh please, save us!! Take your shitty attitude and put it where the sun don't shine.
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