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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / August 2008

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Colloidal Silver discussion

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Sara - 15 Jul 2008 16:50 GMT
I brought up some results using AOL's search engine this morning (also
googled it earlier but didn't grab any links then)
interesting that any of the "pro" colloidal sites I found seemed to always
be connected to trying to sell a product/products.

These three seemed to be pretty legitimate to me, tho I guess Dr Cecil
'could' be said to have an agenda, if you want to stretch a bit.   And of
course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a huge
conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that will
REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

--sara

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/080314.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_silver

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm
chardonney9 - 18 Jul 2008 23:04 GMT
> And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ealerts/ea200807/ea20080716a.html
FTC bullies an herbal supplement company and the company fights back
Down By Law

Out in New Mexico, some little guys are fighting some big guys who
happen to be government guys who also happen to be acting like bullies.

Do you tend to root for the underdog? Do you enjoy seeing bullies get
their comeuppance?

Then I've got a good story for you…

Dark shadow

Let's say there's a government website that acknowledges evidence that
milk thistle is "hepatoprotective" (that is, it protects the liver). And
let's say there's another government website that offers this quote
about milk thistle: "It has been used for thousands of years as a remedy
for a variety of ailments, especially liver problems."

Okay. As it happens, you manufacture and sell a milk thistle product, so
on your website you post something like this: "The National Center for
Complementary and Alternative Medicine (a division of the National
Institutes of Health) states that milk thistle has been used for
thousands of years as a remedy for a variety of ailments, especially
liver problems."

What are you doing? You're stating the truth about an historical fact.
Not only that, it's a fact backed up by a direct quote from a government
agency.

Guess what? You can't do that.

Who says? The FTC. And they're willing to take away your company and
bankrupt you to prove their point.

So what do you do? Most companies roll over and comply when the FTC
shadow darkens their door. But not you. You sue the bullies. And you
just might make history.

Way over the top

For about 15 years, Mark and Marianne Hershiser have operated Native
Essence Herb Company, just outside of Taos, New Mexico. They started
their business with a single herbal tea, then slowly expanded to offer
many individual herbs and herbal formulas.

This past spring they received a letter from the Western Region of the
FTC, stating that they had violated the FTC Act by making deceptive
claims. Acting like a "good cop," the Western Region letter notes that
the Hershisers could avoid litigation from the FTC "bad cop" by removing
the claims from their website and signing a settlement agreement.
Failure to respond would result in legal action that would include,
"…appointment of a receiver to exercise control over the company…and an
asset freeze…"

The letter states that the FTC also directed the Western Region office
to seek from the company an amount equal to revenues from the sales of
certain products - that is: ALL revenues accumulated over the years the
products were sold.

In other words: Comply or we'll take your business and bury you in debt.

Late last month the Hershisers responded in a way no one had ever
responded to such a letter. They sued. Citing the First Amendment, the
Hershisers claim they have the right to truthfully inform customers
about the historical uses of individual herbs (as noted on government
websites) and to share the conclusions of government-sponsored studies.

In a statement issued by the office of Richard A. Jaffe, the Hershisers'
attorney, Mr. Jaffe said, "This is a precedent-setting case. The issue
has never been litigated; it not only affects the Hershisers, but all
companies which sell herbal products."

We can only hope that someone at the FTC is squirming uncomfortably. And
hopefully that discomfort will steadily increase as the case goes on.

You can be sure I'll closely follow the Hershisers' progress, and I'll
keep you posted on how they fare in their fight with these government
bullies. Meanwhile, you can read more about their case (and contribute
to their legal fund, if you like) at this website: herbalinformation.com.

Sources:
"Native Essence Herb Company Sues FTC" Business Wire, 6/25/08, reuters.com
"New Mexico Lawsuit challenges FTC Censorship" Voluntary Trade Council,
6/28/08, voluntarytrade.org
chardonney9 - 18 Jul 2008 23:19 GMT
>  And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

http://www.naturalnews.com/023514.html
(NaturalNews) Big Pharma is constantly finding new ways to destroy the
natural supplements market, in much the same way that the American
Medical Association once sought to destroy the chiropractic industry
(for which it was later found guilty of conspiracy in U.S. courts, by
the way). The latest attack against vitamins comes from an FDA petition
filed by Medicure Pharma, Inc., which has astonishingly asked the FDA to
ban the sale of Vitamin B6!

Vitamin B6, of course, is a naturally-occurring nutrient found in
numerous vegetables, nuts and whole grains. Its natural form is called
pyridoxal 5'-phosphate or P5P for short. It's an essential nutrient for
expectant mothers, growing children and anyone who wishes to be healthy.
It's absolutely crucial for healthy blood cell function, and it's used
in over 100 enzymatic reactions involving protein metabolism.
... (continues) ...

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journalist he is relentless in his questioning, always asking insightful
questions to expose the truth. Masterful!"

- Suzy Cohen, R.Ph., Author of The 24-Hour Pharmacist
(www.DearPharmacist.com)
   

So why would a pharmaceutical company petition the FDA to outlaw the
sale of this essential nutrient? It's simple: Because Big Pharma wants
to market its own form of Vitamin B6 and call it a "drug."

Medicure Pharma, Inc., has been studying the clinical effects of Vitamin
B6 (which they call "MC-1") on humans. This is part of a process for
receiving FDA approval on MC-1 as a "drug," and then marketing this drug
through the conventional medical system (and selling it at markups that
can reach 500,000% over the cost of the actual ingredients).

This issue was reported by the Alliance for Natural Health, an
outstanding health freedom organization that deserves your support. You
can read about this Vitamin B6 issue (along with links to the petition) at:
http://www.anhcampaign.org/news/hand-ph...

Obviously, it is in the financial interest of Medicure Pharma, Inc. to
not only receive FDA approval for their "MC-1" version of Vitamin B6;
it's also crucial to eliminate the competition. After all, if people
knew MC-1 was just Vitamin B6, they could go out and buy it on their
own, for a fraction of the price of a prescription drug. This is most
likely why Medicure Pharma petitioned the FDA to outlaw Vitamin B6
supplements: It's the simplest and easiest way to eliminate the
competition and guarantee profits!

Screwy logic, biopiracy and Big Pharma scams
So what's the logic behind banning Vitamin B6? It's simple: Medicare
Pharma wants the FDA to declare Vitamin B6 to be "adulterated" because
it contains a drug. Which drug does it contain? Well, MC-1, of course!

Do you see the circular reasoning here? Vitamin B6 is a
naturally-occurring vitamin, but if a drug company gets FDA approval on
Vitamin B6 (with a different name), then that very same drug company can
petition the FDA to ban Vitamin B6, claiming it contains their drug!

I know this sounds incredibly stupid. And it is. But it isn't
unprecedented. In fact, the very same thing happened with red yeast rice.

A few years ago, drug companies discovered that red yeast rice (a
natural supplement) contained powerful, natural compounds that balance
cholesterol levels. These compounds are called lovastatins (sound familiar?)

Drug companies ripped off the lovastatin molecules from red yeast rice,
then patented them. Once they achieved FDA approval for their "statin
drugs," it was easy to file a petition requesting the outlawing of red
yeast rice, claiming the supplement was "adulterated" with drugs! Which
drugs? Statin drugs, of course -- the very same drugs that were isolated
from red yeast rice in the first place!

This is why the FDA has been on a terror campaign to outlaw red yeast
rice supplements. They've sent warning letters to online retailers and
threatened numerous companies with legal action. The point of all this
is to eliminate red yeast rice from the marketplace because it competes
with statin drugs. And it's the exact same strategy now being following
by Medicure Pharma in its attempt to get the FDA to ban Vitamin B6.

Was it a move out of financial desperation?
Medicure Pharma, by the way, is losing its shirt. It recently received
notice from the American Stock Exchange that it would be "delisted"
because it no longer meets the minimum requirement for shareholder
equity vs. ongoing fiscal losses. In other words, the company is losing
too much money and has too little shareholder equity to even stay listed
in the American Stock Exchange.

This might explain its decision to petition the FDA to outlaw the sale
of Vitamin B6 (P5P). If consumers were unable to buy the vitamins, many
would have no choice but to seek out the company's own patented,
high-profit MC-1 version of the vitamin, and that would generate a
windfall of profits!

Making money in the pharmaceutical industry, you see, is not about
helping people in any real way; it's about limiting their options,
controlling the marketplace, and forcing people to buy products from you
at monopoly prices.

This is, in fact, the underlying business model of the entire
pharmaceutical industry: Selling drugs at monopoly prices while
outlawing competing products. Any approval by the FDA is, in effect, a
license to engage in monopolistic market practices. And remarkably, the
FDA even enforces this monopoly by threatening, intimidating and raiding
the warehouses of competing product companies, especially if they're in
the "natural" products industry.

Even more remarkably, the FTC, which claims to protect fair market
practices in the United States, has utterly ignored the monopoly
practices of Big Pharma. Yes, the same government office that went after
Microsoft for creating a "monopoly" user interface in Windows seems to
have no interest whatsoever in going after drug companies engaged in
widespread, fraudulent monopoly marketing practices that are bankrupting
the entire nation! (How's that for selective enforcement of trade
practices?)

We must either stop the FDA, or lose all access to herbs and supplements
Do you see where all this is ultimately headed? If the FDA is allowed to
keep banning nutritional supplements while promoting the very same drugs
synthesized from those natural sources, it could allow Big Pharma to
commit widespread biopiracy, stealing all the good medicine from nature,
claiming patent protection on the useful molecules, and getting the FDA
to outlaw virtually all the natural substances from which those
medicines were first derived.

It's not a particularly brilliant strategy, but it is exceedingly
effective at defrauding the public out of trillions of dollars in
dishonest profits. And the fact that this is going on today gives
additional support to something I've proposed for quite some time:
Ending all patent protection on medicines, genes and seeds.

I say, there should never be a financial incentive for corporations to
deny the People access to information and products that could halt
disease, end suffering, and enhance their health. And yet today's
conventional medical system is set up precisely to profit from the
ongoing disease of the People.

It is a system that offers no cures, no education and no honest
information to the public about real health solutions. It only offers a
lifetime of ever-more-expensive patented pharmaceuticals that lead to a
downward spiral of bad health and bad debt until more and more American
families are left diseased and penniless, victims of a profiteering
system of medicine that trades lives for profits as the foundation of
its business model.

It is time for radical -- revolutionary, in fact! -- changes to our
system of medicine, and I believe that begins by ending all patent
protection for medicines, genes and seeds. These things belong to ALL
the People, not just the rich, white fat cats who take home $300 million
annual salaries by fraudulently selling dangerous prescription
medications to people who are only harmed by them.

Watch NaturalNews tomorrow, for I'll be publishing a grassroots action
article that dares to call for revolutionary action designed to rebuild
a new health care system following the coming collapse of the American
Empire.

You sense it coming, don't you? A year ago, you were skeptical, but now
you know it's true: Skyrocketing fuel prices, hiking food prices,
collapsing real estate bubbles, the demise of the U.S. dollar in
international markets, failed wars and massive inflation caused by the
Fed's bailout of rich white bankers... these are all signs of a modern
Roman Empire that's about to collapse under the weight of its debt,
disease and disastrous war mongering.

The end of American as we know it is coming. And it will be replaced by
a new nation, built upon the ideas of people like you and me (those of
us who can still think clearly because we're not all drugged out on
Ambien...)

So read NaturalNews tomorrow to learn about what we need to do after the
coming collapse of the U.S. government to rebuild a nation based in
individual liberties, Free Speech, true health and respect for nature.

In the mean time if you want to send your comments to the FDA on this
Vitamin B6 petition, the web page for you to file a comment on this
Vitamin B6 issue is located here: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/c...

To file a comment, you have to click the little text balloon beside the
phrase "Add Comments." It's difficult to find on the page, which just
goes to show you that the FDA isn't really interested in people adding
comments in the first place.
chardonney9 - 19 Jul 2008 12:50 GMT
>   And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)
>
> --sara

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Health&Medicine/+Doc-Health&Me
dicine-Cancer/CansemaStory.htm


"Dr. James Watson won a Nobel Prize for determining the shape of DNA.
During the 1970's, he served two years on the National Cancer Advisory
Board. In 1975, he was asked about the National Cancer Program. He
declared, 'It's a bunch of sh.t.'

"In 1953, a United States Senate Investigation reported that a
conspiracy existed to suppress effective cancer treatments. The Senator
in charge of the investigation conveniently died. The investigation was
halted. It was neither the first nor the last of a number of strange
deaths involving people in positions to do damage to those running the
nation's cancer program.

"In 1964, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) spent millions of
dollars to stop an alternative cancer treatment which had cured
hundreds, if not thousands, of cancer patients according to documented
records. It was later disclosed that the FDA had falsified the testimony
of witnesses. The FDA lost the court case because the jury found the
defendants innocent and recommended that the substance be objectively
evaluated. It never was. Instead, it was totally suppressed.

"In the early 1960's, two New York City doctors, one associated with the
leading cancer center in America and the other the medical director of a
Brooklyn hospital, decided to inject live cancer cells into 22 unknowing
patients. When they were discovered, Dr. Chester M. Southam of the
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. E.E. Mandel of the Jewish
Chronic Disease Hospital of Brooklyn were put on "probation" for a year.
The three physicians who "blew the whistle" on Dr. Southam and Dr.
Mandel were dismissed.

"For many years, the American Medical Association (AMA) and the American
Cancer Society (ACS) coordinated their "hit" lists of innovative cancer
reseachers who were to be ostracized. One investigative reporter
declared the AMA and ACS "for a network of vigilantes prepared to pounce
on anyone who promotes a cancer therapy that runs against their
substantial prejudices and profits."

"In the late 1950's, it was learned that Dr. Henry Welch, head of the
FDA's Division of Antibiotics, had secretly received $287,000 from the
drug companies he was supposed to regulate. In 1975, an independent
government evaluation of the FDA still found massive "conflicts of
interest" among the agency's top personnel.

"In 1977, an investigative team from the prominent Long Island newspaper
Newsday found serious "conflicts of interest" at the National Cancer
Institute (NCI). In 1986, an organized cover-up of an effective
alternative cancer therapy, orchestrated by NCI officials, was revealed
during Congressional hearings.

"These examples are only the tip of a huge iceberg. The cancer
establishment now has a 50-year history of vast corruption, incompetence
and organized suppression of cancer therapies which actually work.
Millions of people have suffered terrible torture and death because
those in charge took payoffs, played it safe, had closed minds to the
innovative, or simply were afraid to do what was obviously and morally
right...
Sara - 19 Jul 2008 18:16 GMT
>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have
>> a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Board. In 1975, he was asked about the National Cancer Program. He
> declared, 'It's a bunch of sh.t.'

(snipped)

I am amazed and astounded at all the recent sources you are finding to make
your point!  Of course the medical scientists out there haven't learned
ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or not
alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years!   Though you DID post
something the other day that was only 9 years old.

I wasn't going to respond at all, sorry guys.  I dunno why this is so
annoying to me, well, except that I hope any newbies reading this stuff
realize that they need to talk to a doctor, and get on a legitimate course
of treatment for their HepC.  I can understand why folks want to try
alternatives, want to find an easy fix, etc etc....  but it makes me crazy
to think of all the time and money wasted in the pursuit of a 'magic' cure.

whatever.  just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue.

Sara
Waterspider - 19 Jul 2008 19:20 GMT
"Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ...
>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have
>>> a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> whatever.  just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue.
> Sara
She's not likely going to get a clue, because she's not looking for a clue,
she's looking for validation of her ill-informed, reckless and ignorant
decision to avoid treatment for her hepatitis c.
Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity is
a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity...
Sara - 19 Jul 2008 20:03 GMT
> "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ...
>>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity
> is a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity...

shame on me, but I'm cracking up here.   brain fog + heavy-metal
toxicity.... great names for new rock bands :)
yeah, maybe you had to be there.

S
Waterspider - 19 Jul 2008 22:42 GMT
>> "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ...
>>>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> toxicity.... great names for new rock bands :)
> yeah, maybe you had to be there.

I think I *was* there... <g>
Rock on!
Cactus Jammies - 21 Jul 2008 23:18 GMT
> I think I *was* there... <g>
> Rock on! ......................

Band out of Galiano called Boss Moose and the Pigmies.
Jamffer - 20 Jul 2008 00:13 GMT
> > "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in ...
> >>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma
> >>>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to
> >>>> anything that will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)
> >>>> --sara

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Health&Medicine/+Doc-Health&Me
dicine-Cancer/CansemaStory.htm

> >>> "Dr. James Watson won a Nobel Prize for determining the shape of DNA.
> >> (snipped)
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> S

Presenting Brainfogs latest Heavy-Metal killer album for 2008 called,
"Toxicity".
Jamffer
kjoh - 20 Jul 2008 00:48 GMT
But is she blue yet?

k

-
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.hepatitis-c
More information at http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/faq.htm
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:27 GMT
> But is she blue yet?
>
> kj

Another myth about CS....

If made correctly there is no turning blue. I know people who have taken
huge amounts for years and are fine.

And that is really the worse that could happen. It's not toxic at all
and quite frankly I'd rather be blue than dead from hep c.
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:25 GMT
> She's not likely going to get a clue, because she's not looking for a clue,
> she's looking for validation of her ill-informed, reckless and ignorant
> decision to avoid treatment for her hepatitis c.

You don't know me and don't know my reasons for not being treated by the
 allopathic methods up to this point. Why would I come here where
nobody has looked in the slightest (except one guy who's wife is into
alternative medicine) at what CS can do. Every one of you looked for the
worst websites you could find, not to openmindedly look into it but only
to argue and troll. There was never any shot at you actually listening
to what I've done and why, it's all about winning arguments here evidently.

> Thinking of colloidal silver quackery, I wonder if her apparent stupidity is
> a side-effect of heavy-metal toxicity...

Colloidal silver has been in use for thousands of years and yet the FDA
can't pull one negative experience about it out of their database.
There is no heavy metal toxicity. I know people who have taken it for
decades and are not toxic in any way.

When you make statements like that you confirm your ignorance.
Dwight - 20 Jul 2008 04:27 GMT
>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma
>>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Sara

It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this
virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't.
Wish I could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at
least it beats burying my head in the sand.

Dwight
Sara - 20 Jul 2008 05:48 GMT
(snipped)

> It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this virus
> and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't. Wish I
> could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at least it
> beats burying my head in the sand.
>
> Dwight

Thanks Dwight, you've said it very well.   I don't really want to make a
joke out of Char's beliefs and/or research, and who knows, maybe the
colloidal silver really helps.  I'm just very concerned that she, or others,
will decide to go that route INSTEAD of going with the conventional TX,
which has a great chance of knocking out the virus in this case, as she is a
Geno 2.

I also have some concerns as to whether or not her choice of alternative
treatments are harming her already compromised liver.  I don't feel that any
of the links provided so far touting colloidal silver as the cure-all are
very legitimate, since they all have something to gain from their readers
belief in the stuff (sales!)

Char, we really are not a bunch of bullies who gang up on someone for just
having a 'different' idea or viewpoint (usually!) ....  we really are
concerned about you, and want to see you kill that dragon and live a long
and healthy life.   We're actually a pretty intelligent group who have also
done our research, asked our questions, and shared many years worth of
personal experience.   You really can't blame us for getting impatient with
you trying to ram something down our throats that we have good reason to
believe is just "snake oil", and we all have better things to do than to
keep trying to convince you that you could be hurting yourself by what you
are putting into your body.

anyway, I'm tired of this game.  Char's gonna do whatever she decides is the
right thing for her.   I only ask that she quit posting drivel to this
newsgroup and find some more recent (like within the last year or even two)
and believable claims for alternative treatments than she's provided so
far -- articles from sources that do not have a conflict of interest would
be nice :)

Sara
thinking blue heppers might be kinda cool :)  gee thanks, kojo!
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:44 GMT
> Thanks Dwight, you've said it very well.   I don't really want to make a
> joke out of Char's beliefs and/or research, and who knows, maybe the
> colloidal silver really helps.  

Why don't you find out for yourself? What in the world would it hurt?

I'm just very concerned that she, or
> others, will decide to go that route INSTEAD of going with the
> conventional TX, which has a great chance of knocking out the virus in
> this case, as she is a Geno 2.

As I said earlier, you don't know the circumstances behind my choices,
what I've done, what I've been told and what I will do in the future.
I'm hoping that "others" will decide to really look into all
possibilities, not just those the doctors throw at you.

> I also have some concerns as to whether or not her choice of alternative
> treatments are harming her already compromised liver.  I don't feel that
> any of the links provided so far touting colloidal silver as the
> cure-all are very legitimate, since they all have something to gain from
> their readers belief in the stuff (sales!)

No, they all did not sell silver. And if my liver is in trouble it's
from the doctor not getting me a biopsy so we'd know there were problems
and not from CS. I'm not one that follows fairy tales around, I have
researched it very well and know for sure that it not only does not hurt
livers but helps them.

And since it's not my only choice and not the only option I'm playing
right now why is everyone down on only that choice? Because it's an easy
target?

> Char, we really are not a bunch of bullies who gang up on someone for
> just having a 'different' idea or viewpoint (usually!) ....

Coulda fooled me!

 we really
> are concerned about you, and want to see you kill that dragon and live a
> long and healthy life.

No, nobody here is concerned about me really. Nice try though.

   We're actually a pretty intelligent group who
> have also done our research, asked our questions, and shared many years
> worth of personal experience.

I find that so hard to believe when I have noticed a serious lack of
self knowledge when it comes to any alternatives. CS is hardly the only one.

  You really can't blame us for getting
> impatient with you trying to ram something down our throats that we have
> good reason to believe is just "snake oil",

I'm not ramming anything anywhere. I'm presenting evidence that you and
the others aren't trying in the least to actually look at. From what I
see your only interest is pulling up as many websites that trash my view
as you can, never mind they aren't the truth.

 and we all have better
> things to do than to keep trying to convince you that you could be
> hurting yourself by what you are putting into your body.

Except I'm not. How can you convince me about something that I know so
much more about than you do?

> anyway, I'm tired of this game.  Char's gonna do whatever she decides is
> the right thing for her.   I only ask that she quit posting drivel to

There was no need to call it drivel. That's exactly what I mean about
not opening your eyes to see what is in front of you. Nobody has even
asked what other protocols I'm following right now either.

> this newsgroup and find some more recent (like within the last year or
> even two) and believable claims for alternative treatments than she's
> provided so far -- articles from sources that do not have a conflict of
> interest would be nice :)

And if I'd done that you'd been unhappy that I can't show years of good
results with CS. Can't win can I?

> Sara
> thinking blue heppers might be kinda cool :)  gee thanks, kojo!
Paul - 20 Jul 2008 07:14 GMT
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:06 -0500, Dwight <Dwight@not_real.com>, in
message ID <rhygk.5403$np7.188@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this
>virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't.
>Wish I could trade my geno 1 for 2. Oh well, back to the shadows, at
>least it beats burying my head in the sand.

I guess it pisses me off too because I lost a friend to hep-c who
might have been saved had he treated sooner.  He had an "easy"
genotype BTW.
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:32 GMT
> It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this
> virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't.

You let me know when you see someone like that ok?

I won't try? What are you basing this on? What do you know about my
situation and condition? Where did I ever say I won't try?

I just now found out about liver biopsies on here and within days got my
doctor to schedule me one. I will be getting notice in the mail shortly
about when this will happen.

You see, when you make up things that aren't true it causes you to get
upset over nothing.

And if you really tried and tried why do you not know about other
possible methods of kicking it's butt?

Do you feel doctors are infallable? That only big drug companies can
find cures? That absolutely no "cures" anywhere in the world could take
their place or suppliment them?

Are you just gonna sit on your arse and cry because you aren't
responding to their treatment or will you explore other possible methods?
Dwight - 25 Jul 2008 19:25 GMT
>> It just upsets me to see someone that could probably get rid of this
>> virus and won't try when people like me have tried and tried and can't.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Are you just gonna sit on your arse and cry because you aren't
> responding to their treatment or will you explore other possible methods?

good bye <plonk>
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:17 GMT
> I am amazed and astounded at all the recent sources you are finding to
> make your point!  Of course the medical scientists out there haven't
> learned ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or
> not alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years!   Though you DID
> post something the other day that was only 9 years old.

Since colloidal silver has been in use for thousands of years a few
decades is nothing. I was showing that great info on CS has been around
for a very long time and I find it shocking that nobody on here has even
heard of it much less researched it and tried it. It's been around
longer than aspirin!

If you had, you'd know that it's not a heavy metal, it helps and doesn't
hurt your liver and that it has and will fight to make it healthier.

I can't believe all the great CS websites you had to pass over to find a
very few that trash it just to say you are right. It isn't about being
right, it's not about flames, it's just truth brought to you while you
decide not to see what is in front of your eyes.

> I wasn't going to respond at all, sorry guys.  I dunno why this is so
> annoying to me,

Maybe it's because I'm right. I've not trolled anyone, just posted
factual evidence to your cynical words. Without even putting a lot of
effort into it I've found quite a few instances where the FDA acted
inappropriately towards people just looking to help others. I've
definitely not earned all the flames thrown at me. God forbid I should
think a little deeper than the others on here.

 well, except that I hope any newbies reading this stuff
> realize that they need to talk to a doctor, and get on a legitimate
> course of treatment for their HepC.

I hope they are reading it too, and that is the main reason I am posting
here. I could care less if I got anyone's approval on this group for all
the time I've taken studying various methods of treatment that obviously
no one here has done.

  I can understand why folks want to
> try alternatives, want to find an easy fix, etc etc....  but it makes me
> crazy to think of all the time and money wasted in the pursuit of a
> 'magic' cure.

Look at all the time and money wasted on conventional treatments that
fail and hurt people significantly. I've not told my story as to why I
did things the way I did and yet many here have already decided for me
as to why I took the road I did.

> whatever.  just shaking my head here, hoping Char gets a clue.
>
> Sara

I've had doctors almost kill me, maim me for life, give me meds that
could have hurt me significantly, ignore a tumor without giving me a
reason, decide they won't tell me about a liver biopsy since they figure
I would probably not want one (why would anyone think they can make such
decisions for me?) which is way over the line and ignorant enough that
I'm going to go to the head of the hospital over.

It's amazing that anyone on here, not having really truly looked past
what their doctors tell them, would want to say I need a clue.

None of you, as ignorant as you are about what stops hep c, are in a
position to state that anyone needs a clue.
chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 15:09 GMT
>>>   And of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma
>>> have a huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> learned ANYTHING new about drugs, treating major diseases, or whether or
> not alternative medicines work in the last 30+ years!  

My point was that this has been going on for a very long time. It's
hardly something new.

Want new? Not that it makes any difference. Nothing has changed. Indeed,
the FDA seem to be getting even more brazen. I don't want the government
telling me I can't have something because Big Pharma can't make money on it!

WND LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER
Hands up! Back slowly away from the vitamins!
Feds crack down on reports of natural remedy healings

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73126

Posted: August 22, 2008
10:33 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

The Goliath-sized Federal Trade Commission and U.S. Food and Drug
Administration have launched an attack on a small radio program and its
accompanying website for recommending natural remedies to health
problems, but in this case, David is fighting back.

Daniel Chapter One, a national Christian radio program and natural
healing ministry, told WND today it may end up going to court against
the FTC and FDA over the agencies' attempts to censor the information
the ministry releases regarding "natural alternatives" to chemical and
drug medications.

"If the FTC is successful in silencing Daniel Chapter One, individual
consumers seeking to improve their health and the health of American
society as a whole will suffer important losses," said Attorney James S.
Turner, lead counsel for the organization, which has set up a separate
website to track its battle with the federal government over the issue
of vitamins, herbs and other natural supplements.

Jim Feijo, who with his wife set up the Rhode Island-based service that
operates as a Christian ministry, told WND the dispute arose after
officials in the Canadian health service contacted him and ordered him
to shut down his operations. After he declined to cooperate, Canadian
officials apparently contacted the FTC and FDA to insist on their demands.

But the issue isn't so simple as someone offering to sell illegal drugs;
the products the program offers are natural substances and information
about the treatments comes from those who experienced different levels
of help, not a flam-flam artist.

According to a letter from Turner, his clients turned down the FTC's
"offer to settle its claims" by shutting down operations and paying a
substantial fine.

"We have stated your strong belief that you have done nothing that you
are not entitled to do and that you have complied with any and all just
and constitutional laws that govern your conduct," Turner wrote. "We
said that because of your strong belief about the propriety of your
behavior and that of Daniel Chapter One you are willing, and intend with
our assistance, to present your case for a public hearing before the
FTC, and if necessary in court.

"Your deeply held convictions raise serious legal questions for the FTC
and the courts. First, what is the nature and intent of the law the FTC
seeks to enforce and how does the Constitution restrain government power
in enforcing that law? The courts are making it increasingly clear that
government must clearly identify health claim wrongs and use the least
intrusive power to correct them," he continued.

Regarding FDA intrusion into the situation, Turner said, "regulators
must prove that the statements are in fact claims, that they are false
claims that are impossible to be true for anyone, and that the
defendants knew them to be false at the time they made them."

"Should this action move to court, we will raise the issues surrounding
your constitutional rights to make a truthful statements supported by
the material you have accumulated in your efforts to help people lead
better lives," the lawyer wrote.

"We've lived in communist Berlin, Poland, China, and we've never seen
anything like this," Feijo told WND. "They're threatening to come in and
confiscated our legal products."

The FDA did not return a WND message today requesting comment, and the
FTC could not be reached to leave a message.

Feijo, who's been involved with natural remedies and natural foods for
decades, said he focuses on traditional folk remedies – except the
federal government wants to ban that phrase – and he describes the
government's goals as "mind-blowing."

"This is an absurd attempt to prevent the sharing of knowledge," he said.

He said if the government is successful in its current maneuver, there
would be no limit to the dangers ordinary people could face.
Grandmother's cold remedy could be called a medical treatment and
regulated and taxed, and anyone administering "treatments" such as water
for dehydration could be determined to be practicing medicine, he suggested.

One of the website's top promotions today included a fluoride reduction
system that is described as the most "advanced cartridge system in the
world" and says it can remove 91 percent of the fluoride in the water.

Interestingly, WND reported only a few weeks ago that the National
Kidney Foundation has withdrawn its support for the chemical water
additive and the American Water Works Association has been notified it
must not eliminate or tamper with documents concerning fluoridation of
water as they could be needed in potential lawsuits.

Feijo told WND the federal agencies had demanded customer lists and
purchase records of all customers. The agencies also had demanded that a
letter go to all customers from Daniel Chapter One warning everyone that
its products didn't work.

But that doesn't make any sense, Turner insisted.

"Some products can be proven safe and effective for everyone, and some
can be proven unsafe and/or ineffective for everyone. There are also
some claims that can be proven as always true and some that can be
proven as always false," he said.

But in the case of the natural remedies, the statements "are either in
the area where they are always true or in the gray area [where results
of treatment vary by individual.]"

The FTC, however, "mandates that consumers may only receive health
information from producers and sellers that the FTC has determined is
proven by the 'science' it selects. No historical knowledge, consumer
experience, or traditional practice satisfies FTC demands," the protest
website said.

Therein lies the dispute.

"By depriving consumer choice and the right to hear sellers' knowledge
about health aspects of their products, the one-size-fits-all FTC health
information standard deprives consumer access to alternative health
approaches. If the FTC had enforced this standard against Daniel Chapter
One over the past 30 years, hundreds of people who provide testimony
that Daniel Chapter One products improved or even saved their lives may
not have survived," the organization said.

"The Constitution allows individuals to make potentially risky choices
for themselves. The FTC does not. Instead, the FTC makes highly risky
choices for consumers who have no way to object," the organization said.
"Daniel Chapter One's goal is to help people honestly and the help of
consumers will be crucial to take this historic stand."
chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 15:44 GMT
FDA Unleashes Mass by Mike Adams
(NaturalNews) The FDA has announced that beginning today, spinach and
lettuce sold across the United States may now be secretly irradiated
before it reaches grocery store shelves. What's "secret" about it? The
FDA previously decided that irradiation warning stickers would not be
required on any food items because it would be "too confusing to
consumers." (The word IRRADIATION apparently has too many letters to be
understood to food buyers.) Thus, irradiated foods will not be labeled
as such, and consumers are going to be left in the dark about all this
(except for those who actually eat the irradiated food, in which case
they will glow in the dark).

The FDA, of course, insists that the levels of irradiation used to kill
e.coli will have no effect whatsoever on the nutritional value of the
food. This astonishing statement comes from an agency that doesn't
believe food has any nutritional value in the first place, so lowering
the value to zero by destroying all the phytonutrients does not, in the
opinion of the FDA, alter its nutritional value at all. Thus, destroying
all the anti-cancer nutrients in a head of broccoli merely brings that
broccoli into "compliance" as a non-functional food, according to the FDA.

Radiation, of course, destroys delicate phytochemicals in plants -- the
very phytochemicals protecting consumers against cancer, heart disease,
high cholesterol, inflammation and other diseases. Microwaving broccoli,
for example, destroys up to 98% of its anti-cancer nutrients. (The FDA
has not yet acknowledged this scientific fact, either.) In a similar
way, irradiating food destroys much of its nutritional content,
including vitamins, carotenoids, anthocyanins and other delicate
protective nutrients that are right now providing the last, desperate
nutritional defense against the American diet of meat, milk, fried foods
and processed junk.

Irradiating fresh produce will leave the U.S. population is a state of
extreme deficiency in protective plant-based nutrients.

Does the FDA plan to destroy the health of the U.S. population?
Many people suspect that's what the FDA really wants. A nutritionally-
deficient, disease-ridden population would mean a windfall of profits
for the FDA's buddies in Big Pharma -- the folks who sell patented
medications at monopoly prices. With the food supply destroyed by
radiation, ordinary people would have virtually no remaining sources of
protective phytonutrients!

In promoting this food radiation policy, the FDA has accomplished what
all the terrorists in the world could not: The mass irradiation of the
U.S. food supply -- much like setting off a dirty bomb over the nation's
farms (but with less radiation). This destruction of the nutritional
value of the food supply is a far greater threat to the health of the
U.S. population than any terrorist event, including 9/11. And yet it is
being done by our own people, TO our own people, by a lawless agency
that answers to no one. FDA officials are not voted into office by the
People; they are appointed by politicians. They answer to no one, they
refuse to follow federal law, and they operate as tyrants over a quarter
of the U.S. economy.

And now they have taken it upon themselves to destroy the national food
supply.

We should be more than just alarmed -- we should be outraged! The FDA
has committed an act of war against the People. With this decision, the
FDA has firmly positioned itself as an enemy of the People, and a
bringer of death and disease to the nation. Why are our elected
representatives in Washington allowing this madness?

Think about this: If the FDA has its way:

• All your food will be irradiated, pasteurized or killed
• All your children will be vaccinated
• All your medicine will be based on pharmaceuticals
• All your free speech about health will be suppressed
• All informative labeling on food and supplements will be outlawed
• Growing and selling non-irradiated garden vegetables will become a crime!

Today it's spinach and lettuce; tomorrow it's all fresh produce
Don't think the FDA will stop with spinach and lettuce, either. They're
already talking about irradiating tomatoes, peppers and onions. Before
long, radiation could become mandatory for ALL fresh produce, and all
the fresh fruits and vegetables that are supposed to contain
health-protecting nutrients will be transformed into sterile, inert
plant mass with no health benefits at all. (Brilliant scam, huh?)

This is by design. I believe the FDA wants the American public to be
sickened and diseased. Why else would they ban Free Speech about healing
foods like cherries, broccoli and garlic? Why would they outlaw the
selling of herbs and nutritional supplements that claim to treat and
prevent disease? The FDA wants you to be sick, enslaved and medicated,
and irradiating the food supply is the quickest way to accomplish that.

He who controls the food controls the People.

He who destroys the food can profit from the People's sickness.

The FDA's crimes against humanity
In pushing this radiation agenda, the FDA is committing a crime against
humanity -- a nutritional atrocity that violates fundamental human
rights. And yet the FDA's top decision makers continue to operate with
zero oversight and zero accountability. They make decisions in a
corporate-sponsored vacuum, absent any input from reasonable,
health-conscious consumers or scientists. And because they have been
granted tyrannical powers by Congress, the FDA operates above the law.

It is not subject to any laws whatsoever; not even the U.S. Constitution
which is supposed to protect the People's right to "Life, Liberty and
the Pursuit of Happiness" (as stated in the Declaration of Independence) .

The mass irradiation of the food supply is a violation of the "Life"
part of that phrase, wouldn't you agree? If we can no longer buy
nourishing foods with their nutrients intact, then we are all doomed to
degenerative disease and death... but not before paying out our life
savings to doctors, drug companies and hospitals. That's the evil genius
of the food irradiation plot: It kills you slowly, at just the right
pace to drain your bank account before you expire from malnutrition.

I truly believe this irradiation of the food supply is the beginning of
the end of America. No nation can survive the destruction of its food
supply. The FDA is dooming America to a slow, painful, medicated death.
In a generation, this nation will be lost, destroyed from within by
short-sighted tyrants who violated nature and left the People to rot.

What you can do right now to fight this latest transgression by the FDA
For starters, you can:

1) Grow your own food. A little gardening is good. Grow whatever you
can, even if it's just a few kitchen herbs.

2) Buy your food at farmer's markets, coops and CSAs. See
http://www.localhar vest.org/ csa

3) Ask your grocery store if they are buying irradiated spinach. If they
don't know, demand they find out!

4) Raise hell with your Senators and Congresspeople, demanding they pass
new laws protecting consumers from the FDA and its plot to destroy the
nutritional value of the food supply.

Also, listen to two podcasts I've posted on this topic. The first was
recorded several months ago, where I publicly predicted the FDA would do
exactly what we're seeing right now. Listen to that podcast here:
http://www.naturaln ews.com/Index- Podcas...

The second podcast was just posted today. I recorded it right before
writing this article. It goes into much greater detail about the FDA's
plot to destroy the health of the U.S. population. You can listen to
that here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/Index- Podcas...

Finally, don't stand for this food supply madness! Raise your voice.
Write your local paper, call your representatives in Washington and tell
them you strongly oppose the irradiation of the food supply. Teach
people about phytonutrients. And stay tuned to NaturalNews as we
continue to cover this important story.

The FDA has gone mad. Criminally mad. It is an agency that will
literally kill you if given the chance, and it is up to all of us to
stop this madness before we lose our health, our children and our very
nation.
Paul - 25 Aug 2008 17:35 GMT
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:44:15 -0400, chardonney9
<chardonney9@notearthlink.net>, in message ID
<geudnf9wDL-kWC_VnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@earthlink.com>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>FDA Unleashes Mass by Mike Adams
>(NaturalNews) The FDA has announced that beginning today, spinach and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>(except for those who actually eat the irradiated food, in which case
>they will glow in the dark).

Another way of knowing that it's been irradiated is that it won't make
you fart.
Cactus Jammies - 25 Aug 2008 20:43 GMT
What's this got to do with Hepatitis C?  Now that we're off topic, a former
friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker. She
worked for a local company that sold the stuff, but from arm's length in a
juridiction outside the USA where the distributors could not be reached by
US laws.  I said she swallowed it.  Literally.  Apparently one of the
delivery systems for colloidal silver comprises small hollow silver balls
that are to be ingested orally, then waiting for the digestion and
elimination process to run it's course, then plucked from the 'patients'
fecal matter and washed and re-used.

cactus jammies

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:44:15 -0400, chardonney9
> <chardonney9@notearthlink.net>, in message ID
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Another way of knowing that it's been irradiated is that it won't make
> you fart.
chardonney9 - 25 Aug 2008 22:44 GMT
> What's this got to do with Hepatitis C?  Now that we're off topic, a former
> friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker. She
> worked for a local company that sold the stuff, but from arm's length in a
> juridiction outside the USA where the distributors could not be reached by
> US laws.  

It's made in the US all over the place. That isn't illegal.

I said she swallowed it.  Literally.  Apparently one of the
> delivery systems for colloidal silver comprises small hollow silver balls
> that are to be ingested orally, then waiting for the digestion and
> elimination process to run it's course, then plucked from the 'patients'
> fecal matter and washed and re-used.

Sounds like you were the one swallowing a story.
Char

> cactus jammies
Waterspider - 26 Aug 2008 23:17 GMT
>> What's this got to do with Hepatitis C?  Now that we're off topic, a
>> former friend swallowed the colloidal silver thing hook, line and sinker.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Sounds like you were the one swallowing a story.
> Char

Please don't embarrass yourself further by suggesting that someone else
might have "swallowed a story." You are the champ.
Waterspider - 26 Aug 2008 23:18 GMT
"chardonney9" <chardonney9@notearthlink.net> cut-and-pasted from uncredible
sources...
<snip>

Paranoia will destroy ya.
Waterspider - 20 Jul 2008 05:19 GMT
For Chardonney9. This isn't colloidal silver, but you'll find great
potential here for an alternative treatment of your hepatitis c.
http://www.skepticreport.com/lighterside/bluefairies.htm
Sara - 20 Jul 2008 05:49 GMT
> For Chardonney9. This isn't colloidal silver, but you'll find great
> potential here for an alternative treatment of your hepatitis c.
> http://www.skepticreport.com/lighterside/bluefairies.htm

heh :)  blue fairies.... blue heppers....

bring on the blue meanies!

S
past her bedtime and silly now
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 00:56 GMT
> And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_panacea.htm

The FDA's Panacea

    It is strange that we do not speak about Hitlers in the plural, as
we speak about Quislings. The small Hitlers are around us every day,
tormenting us with their promises, rejoicing in our weaknesses,
demanding our trust, our lives, while remaining totally indifferent to
everything except their thirst for power.

—Robert Payne, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler

Answering a knock at the door of his Lake Charles, Louisiana, home about
8:30 a.m. on September 17, 2003, the man found three U.S. marshals with
semiautomatic weapons who wanted to know if he was Greg Caton. When he
said yes, they asked him to step out of the house and handcuffed his
hands behind his back, claiming they had a warrant to search his home.

“Search for what?” he asked.

“First of all, we need to know where the battery acid is,” one marshal
replied.

“Battery acid?” Caton exclaimed. “I don’t have any battery acid in my home.”

The marshals entered the house, taking him along, and sat him down,
handcuffed, while they searched. Other marshals assisted, until, Caton
estimates, eight of them were going through his home. He asked no fewer
than four times to call his attorney, but they refused to allow it. When
he asked why, since he’d been arrested, their reply was, “You’re not
arrested—you’re a detainee.”

“This, to me, was the most amazing thing of all,” Caton says, “as if
somehow that wording changes what is in fact happening. When I brought
that up to my defense attorney, he said, ‘They’re not supposed to do
that.’ I said, ‘Well, can’t we do something about it?’ He said, ‘No,
because it’s your word against theirs—they can do whatever they want.’ ”

* * *

Greg Caton was a victim of “Operation Cure.All,” an initiative begun in
2001 by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the Federal Trade
Commission. A press release on the FTC’s web site says, “FTC, FDA and
other law enforcement agencies move to stop Internet scams for
supplements and other products that purport to cure cancer, HIV/AIDS and
countless other life-threatening diseases.” Unfortunately, the FDA has
used this as an excuse to shut down businesses and arrest people whose
products, though not recognized by conventional medicine, actually
work—and are inexpensive and have few, if any, side effects.

At the time of the raid, Greg Caton, an herbalist and inventor, was
founder and president of three companies. One, Lumen Foods, made soyfood
products. Another, Preservx, made a food preservative Caton invented and
patented that can be used in much smaller quantities than other
preservatives. The third, Alpha Omega Labs, sold what the FDA and
conventional medicine call “unproven” remedies for cancer and other
health problems.

Many of these remedies Caton and his wife, Cathryn, a naturopathic
doctor, had developed, some based on old formulas registered with the
U.S. Patent Office. His web site, www.altcancer.com, contains extensive
information and advice on dealing with cancer and other illnesses. The
site says, “our primary focus is on ‘plant medicines’ that are proven to
meet three criteria: (1) They must work, (2) They must be safe, and (3)
They must be sufficiently inexpensive so that the average worker can
afford the product(s) without distress.” He offered a money-back
guarantee on everything he sold.

Alpha Omega’s first product and one of its most popular, Cansema Salve,
contains chaparral, a traditional remedy for cancer, along with zinc
chloride and other ingredients to facilitate its action. Starting with
that one product, Caton built up his line to 350 or so items, some of
which he had traveled the world to find. He had about a hundred thousand
customers worldwide and grossed about a million dollars a year.

One product he carried was called hydronium, or H3O, a weak solution of
“scalar energized” sulfuric acid used for a variety of topical
applications, such as skin funguses, bites and burns, sore throat, and
disinfectant. Caton is refreshingly candid on his web site, and in the
case of H3O, this may have gotten him into trouble. In an extensive
discussion, he says, “This is a solution you can easily swallow (more
comfortably if diluted to a pH of 2.0, granted) at acidic levels, which,
if we were talking about any other acid in the 0.0 to 0.5 pH range,
would have potentially severe health consequences.”

Caton’s web site has testimonials about H3O—as it does about many of his
products. He sold thousands of bottles to customers all over the world
and hadn’t received a single complaint. Until, that is, a woman in
Indiana used Alpha Omega’s Cansema Salve and H3O and a product from
another company for what appeared to be a cancer on her nose and
suffered damage. She filed a lawsuit against both companies, but an
affidavit filed eight months after the raid doesn’t mention Alpha Omega
or its products.

Alpha Omega’s records indicate that a year and a half after the incident
with her nose, she attempted to return the H3O and another product, H3x,
unopened. Alpha Omega declined, because the product was more than three
months old, but the question arises how she could have suffered harm
from the H3O if she never opened it. She also bought two more jars of
Cansema Salve more than a year after the incident with her nose and
returned them unopened for a refund two months later. Caton’s attorney
points out, in a document filed with the court, that of the two
companies involved, Alpha Omega “is the only insured party.”

Around the same time, a surgeon in Texas used H3O as a disinfectant to
rinse out the site of a partial hysterectomy he performed. The patient
developed “various complications,” according to the lawsuit she filed,
which she blamed on the H3O “as well as the care and treatment” by the
surgeon, the hospital, and the holding company that owned the hospital.
In an August 2002 letter, a year before the raid on Alpha Omega, the
Texas State Board of Medical Examiners cleared the doctor of wrongdoing
after an investigation, saying “the evidence does not indicate a
violation of the Texas Medical Practice Act.”

These were the only lawsuits filed against Alpha Omega during its decade
in business. From the FDA’s point of view, however, Caton was cynically
selling battery acid and other dangerous products to unsuspecting
customers, and he had to be stopped.

Caton says that the manufacturer’s safety data sheet (MSDS) and skin
sensitivity test for H3O show that on human tissue, the product has the
same corrosivity or causticity as water. Although neither document says
this in so many words, the erythema/edema (skin redness/swelling) test,
done on six rabbits by a testing laboratory in New Jersey, does show no
discernible effect in two cases and a “very slight” or “barely
perceptible” effect in four cases after twenty-four hours.

After seventy-two hours, no effect is discernible in any of them. The
report says that the product “is not considered a primary skin irritant
according to 29 CFR, Section 1910.1200. App A (1), 2001.” H3O was sold
as a concentrate and was used in this form for the tests. Used as
directed, it would be diluted approximately one hundred twenty-eight
times (one ounce to a gallon of water).

The MSDS presumably intends to convey the same message but doesn’t do it
quite so clearly. It says the product is “Non corrosive per 49 CFR
173.136,” that no labels are required, and that it “Contains no
hazardous ingredients according to these citations.” Under “Effects of
chronic over exposure,” it says “None” for eyes, skin, and inhalation
and that ingestion is “Not a likely source of exposure. Dilute with milk
or water.”

On the other hand, the sheet also says, “May be harmful if swallowed”
and “Keep out of eyes and off skin.” It says users should wear safety
glasses or goggles and impermeable gloves and that “A well ventilated
work environment is recommended.” This appears to be boilerplate
language that would be reasonable for any chemical one worked with on a
regular basis, as opposed to something used occasionally for therapeutic
purposes. Again, this applies to the concentrated version.

* * *

At the same time the FDA was searching Caton’s home, other marshals were
searching his business premises and several properties he owned in Lake
Charles, much to the consternation of his employees and tenants. The
government brought in trucks to Alpha Omega and confiscated large
quantities of raw materials and finished products, which they
subsequently destroyed—essentially finding him guilty before his case
was even heard. The centerpiece of the operation was a special truck for
transporting hazardous materials, with “Sulfuric Acid” signs on the
sides, which they used to haul away the H3O.

Cathryn Caton had been at the gym that morning for a workout, along with
the Catons’ seven-year-old son, and arrived home just as Caton was being
arrested. A neighbor who saw what was happening came out and took charge
of their son, so Cathryn could respond to the situation inside.

The Lake Charles police chief, a former FBI agent, had also arrived,
Caton says in a letter, and “told me to my face that he could ‘rip up
the floors and tear out the walls’ if ‘we don’t get what we’re looking
for.’ I will never forget this as long as I live. I was sitting at the
West facing end of my dining room table with handcuffs on behind my back
when he told me. I was really, really concerned that they were going to
destroy our home.”

As it turned out, Caton was not only a detainee but an arrestee, and he
was sent to the parish jail. “Jail” conjures up the image of a couple of
cells in a police station or behind the sheriff’s office in an Old West
frontier town, but in fact, Lafayette Parish Correctional Center is a
prison, where Caton was held for two months without being charged and
for another six after that, without bail, on the premise that he was a
flight risk.

The government threatened to arrest Cathryn Caton and to file Racketeer
Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) charges against her, Greg,
and their employees, on the basis, Caton says, “that AO labs was huge
conspiracy to hurt the public with dangerous drugs.” They also
threatened to arrest his employees as unindicted co-conspirators. (In
fact, two of his Lumen Foods employees were subsequently arrested on
drug charges. Caton doesn’t know if these were justified or not.)

The prospect of both Catons in prison carried the implicit threat of
foster care for their seven-year-old son. Because of this, the Catons
signed papers appointing Cathryn’s brother, in Texas, guardian for their
son. They then sent their son to live with him for the entire fall
school semester.

Caton was a flight risk because, the FDA contended, he had three
passports and a pilot’s license and had flown as recently as the
previous month (August 2003). They also claimed two guns he had in his
home were for the purpose of harming federal agents. They made these
claims in court, under oath, Caton says.

However, he didn’t have three passports—he had two, one of which had
expired and was punched “VOID.” He didn’t have a pilot’s license—he had
taken flying lessons, and the last time he had flown, according to the
pilot’s log, was in August 2001, not 2003. The two guns were in his
wife’s name, and they were purchased, he says, before Y2K, as a
precaution. Nevertheless, when all the charges were added up, he
potentially faced a long stretch in prison.

“They used perjurious statements to even raid my house to begin with,”
Caton says. “They told a judge I was telling people to drink battery
acid, and I’ve got the Department of Justice report to show that.” FDA
agent John Armand was insistent about this in a meeting, Caton says,
recounting their conversation.

“Yes, it’s battery acid. You know it’s battery acid. It’s sulfuric
acid—it must be battery acid.”

“Would you like to see the MSDS sheet?” Caton asked.

“No, we don’t need to see that.”

“Would you like to see the skin sensitivity tests that were done in New
Jersey, showing that this is completely noncaustic, noncorrosive?”

“You know that’s not what it is.”

Ultimately, the government offered Caton a plea bargain: one count of
mail fraud, one count of introducing an unapproved new drug into
interstate commerce, and forfeiture of all his commercial property.

The mail fraud charge was for selling the H3O. Despite the absurdity of
the government’s claim that he was selling battery acid, why did they
insist he plead to it? Caton has an answer for that. “It’s like the
story of the guy who gets caught lying, and he looks you in the face,
and he says to you, ‘That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.’ ” This
obtuse, maddening attitude of a bureaucrat caught in an error or an
outright lie ultimately came to be something of a grim joke for the
Catons, illustrating the groundlessness of the government’s case.

Caton recounts that the FDA contacted the manufacturer of the H3O,
asking how to dispose of the battery acid. The owner of the company told
them it wasn’t battery acid and asked how they got that idea—a question
they didn’t answer. The owner subsequently received a call from the
hazmat disposal company the FDA had retained, asking how to dispose of
it. His reply was that the easiest way was probably to drink it.

The charge of introducing a new drug into interstate commerce was for
shipping a bottle of Cansema Tonic III to Plantation, Florida. The
recipient wasn’t specified, but the FDA happens to have a field office
there.

The government’s pièce de résistance was its demand that Caton forfeit
all his commercial property, plus $950,000. The rationale was that funds
from Alpha Omega had been commingled with those of his other two
companies and had “tainted” them. The FDA arrived at the amount from an
analysis of his financial records, which they’d also seized—it was
ostensibly what he’d defrauded customers out of. His assets were worth
only about half what they demanded, so they agreed to settle—for
everything he had.

Caton owned three buildings. He’d already had to sell a building in
which he had $500,000 in equity, as well as the Preservx company (now
called Global Preservatives) and its associated patent, for “pennies on
the dollar” to pay his legal bills. Of the remaining three buildings,
one was where Alpha Omega and Lumen Foods were located. Another was a
storefront building. The third was a house, worth about $45,000, that
he’d intended to sell to one of his assistants. Altogether, the
buildings were worth about $400,000, although he owed about $180,000 on
the mortgages. The FDA was going to let him keep his home and the
processing equipment for Lumen Foods.

Caton wasn’t sure whether the government would sell the buildings or let
him continue to lease from them. He estimated that if they sold, they
might end up with $150,000—not much for all the paper shuffling
involved. However, it had emerged earlier that the FDA believed Caton
had large sums of money stashed in offshore accounts. In fact, Caton has
reliable information that the night before the raid, fourteen federal
and local agents had a party at a local casino, celebrating what they
thought would be a large haul the next day—which, he says, their
departments would have shared in.

As it turned out, there were no offshore accounts. Caton is not a rich
man, although he probably could have become one from his cancer remedies
alone. He had fulfilled the three criteria he and his wife had
established when they founded the company: his products worked, they
were safe, and he charged reasonable prices. His customers’ many
testimonials confirmed this. Ironically, his generosity had cost him
dearly, because he’d had to scramble just to cover his legal expenses.
On the other hand, of course, if he’d had more money, the FDA would have
just taken it.

The belief that he had large offshore bank accounts may actually have
been one of the factors motivating the FDA’s raid. Caton, who has become
something of an unwilling expert on the subject (his eight months in
jail gave him a lot of time to read), points out a quotation in a book
by William Blum, Rogue State: A Guide to the World’s Only Superpower:

“The DEA, other federal and state agencies and police are seizing
houses, boats, cars, airplanes, real estate, furnishings, bank accounts
and other assets belonging to people suspected of involvement in drug
trafficking, or belonging to their spouses, often without a conviction
and whether or not the assets seized were tied to the alleged crime. . .
. The government agencies are selling these assets and using the
proceeds for anything from patrol cars to parties. The expected value of
forfeitures is at times a determining factor in the question of who to
raid. Police are routinely planting drugs and falsifying police reports
to establish probable cause for cash seizures. . . . As of early 1999,
there was $2.7 billion in the federal government’s ‘Asset Forfeiture
Fund’ alone.” (p. 270–1)

Caton also points to a letter in the the April 15, 2004, Wall Street
Journal that quotes former judge John Yoder, first head of the Justice
Department's Asset Forfeiture Office in the Reagan administration:

“When I set up the Asset Forfeiture Office, I thought I could use my
position to help protect citizens’ rights, and tried to insure that the
U.S. Department of Justice went after big time drug dealers and big time
criminals, rather than minor offenders and innocent property owners.
Today, overzealous government agents and prosecutors will not think
twice about seizing a yacht or a car if they find two marijuana
cigarettes in it, regardless of where they came from. I am now ashamed
of, and scared of the monster I helped to create.”

* * *

Reading through the thirty-eight pages of the eight-part plea agreement,
one cannot but be struck by the monstrous fabrications, profound
cynicism, and complete imperviousness to reason they display. The
agreement claims Caton knowingly created “a scheme and artifice to
defraud purchasers” and that “to facilitate the scheme and the artifice
to defraud, the defendant purchased buildings at the two locations
described.” So he didn’t just own the buildings—he purchased them
deliberately to defraud people.

It’s hard to decide which is worse—that the government actually believes
this or that they knew it was ridiculous and went ahead with it anyway.
One thinks of Bob Dylan: “How many times can a man turn his head and
pretend that he just doesn’t see?” Can one seriously believe, looking at
the depth of information on Caton’s web site, the extent of the
knowledge it reflects, the variety of products, the hundreds of
testimonials, that he’s out to defraud people—unless one were already
predisposed to view any alternative treatment as a fraud?

The potential prison time for the plea bargain was five years for the
mail fraud and three years for introducing an unapproved new drug, but
the government told him that realistically, he was looking at 41–47
months, less time served. Also, his cooperation with the FBI gave the
judge considerable downward discretion.

Cathryn Caton had sent out an appeal to Alpha Omega customers, asking
for letters—testimonials, character references, requests for leniency—to
present to the judge. She received a barrage of emails that, when
printed out, yielded a two-inch-thick stack of letters.

The judge was already quite sympathetic. At the hearing where Caton
entered his plea—after eight months in the parish jail—the judge pointed
at him and said to the prosecutor, “Why is this man still in jail?”
(Caton had previously appeared before two other judges.) The judge then
released him on bond. As Caton put it, “This judge does not like
prosecutorial misconduct, and this thing has got misconduct written all
over it.”

Not content with destroying Caton’s livelihood and holding him in
prison, the FDA proceeded to assail his reputation by giving the
Associated Press a story that ran in Lake Charles and Lafayette papers.
It gave the FDA’s version, quoting government officials and the attorney
for the woman who had named Caton in her complaint but omitted him from
her affidavit. The articles made him look only slightly less
reprehensible than an axe murderer. Neither Caton nor his lawyer was
contacted for their side.

At the sentencing hearing, the judge rejected the prosecution’s
contention that Caton had intended to cause harm with his products and
sentenced him to the minimum possible under the sentencing guidelines:
33 months, which he'll do in a minimum-security prison. With time served
and good behavior he’ll do 20, of which the last six may be in a halfway
house.

In all, Greg Caton estimates, the FDA took $250,000 worth of materials
and $400,000 worth of buildings. This doesn’t include what he lost in
the distress sale of Preservx and the one building he sold, his legal
fees—which amounted to $50,000 for the criminal charges alone—or the
ongoing revenue from Preservx and Alpha Omega.

After Caton was arrested, his wife had T-shirts made up. The front says,
“I survived an FDA raid on September 17, 2003.” The back is like a rock
band’s tour schedule, but instead of concert dates, it says “Other FDA
survivors,” then “In remembrance of Dr. Royal Rife, Harry Hoxsey and all
others that have contributed to alternative healing methods and for the
freedom of choice.” This is followed by the names of eight victims of
FDA raids, the last being Greg Caton’s. At the bottom is a picture of
Uncle Sam pointing outward, with the caption “Coming soon to a city near
you.”

“One of the sacred principles of American life is that private property
is respected,” Caton says. “I don’t even want citizenship in a country
that’s capable of doing this. I’m a manufacturer. I have equipment, I
have inventory—raw goods, finished goods, goods in process, goods
already prepared to ship that are on the bay door waiting to go out. You
can’t run a business if the principle of private property isn’t respected.

“If you’re an herbalist and you do what we do for a living, and you have
extensive knowledge and you’re very good at what you do, if at any given
time they can just come in and take your property, real property, take
equipment, take inventory, take goods—just take it all, like they did in
my case—you can’t operate in that kind of an environment.

“We’ve reached a point in our journey on the road to becoming a police
state where federal agents can get up on the stand, they can raise their
hand, they’re under oath, they can lie in the most egregious ways, and I
guess judges aren’t going to do anything about it. I brought this up to
two different defense attorneys, and it was like, blasé—looking at me as
if, ‘Are you naïve? So what? They lied—so what? Do you never get out of
the house? Don’t you know what’s going on?’ That was the real mindblower
in this whole situation: there’s nothing special about me or my case.
This goes on all the time.”

While Greg Caton was in jail, FDA agent John Armand told one of Caton’s
lawyers that he’d been getting calls from all over the world, from
people who had used Alpha Omega’s products, protesting what had
happened. Cathryn Caton had been getting calls too, from customers
crying, saying nothing else worked and that it was a matter of life and
death. She referred them to the FDA.

* * *

Although asset forfeiture may have been on the FDA’s mind when they went
after Caton, they’ve been raiding proponents of alternative remedies for
decades—since long before asset forfeiture was an option or the term
“alternative remedies” even existed. The FDA, in fact, has a long and
distinguished history of ruthlessly exterminating anything that competes
with conventional treatment, particularly for cancer.

It’s been observed that the FDA is heavily influenced by the medical and
pharmaceutical industries. Its favoritism had become so flagrant that,
as James Carter, M.D., points out in Racketeering in Medicine, “In June,
1990, Marvin Seife, the former head of the FDA’s generic drug division,
was the fifth FDA official to be indicted by a federal grand jury on
charges of perjury. . . . Four of Seife’s former employees at FDA have
already been convicted on corruption and racketeering charges. Five
industry executives, three companies and one consultant have been
convicted of similar charges.” (p. 165)

Conflicts of interest are still rampant, as a September 25, 2000,
article in USA Today points out: “More than half of the experts hired to
advise the government on the safety and effectiveness of medicine have
financial relationships with the pharmaceutical companies that will be
helped or hurt by their decisions.”

And as Shannon Brownlee reports in the April 2004 Washingtonian, “More
than 60 percent of clinical studies—those involving human subjects—are
now funded not by the federal government, but by the pharmaceutical and
biotech industries. That means that the studies published in scientific
journals like Nature and The New England Journal of Medicine . . . are
increasingly likely to be designed, controlled, and sometimes even
ghost-written by marketing departments, rather than academic scientists.”

Considering the FDA’s enforcement efforts, or lack thereof, toward
pharmaceutical manufacturers, its insistence on a mail fraud charge for
Caton’s H3O seems more than a little hypocritical, A study in the April
15, 1998, Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reports
that 76,000–137,000 people die each year from adverse drug reactions.

Despite this, according to the February 2003 Consumer Reports, the
number of warning letters the FDA sends to drug manufacturers “about
false or misleading drug ads has dropped precipitously, from more than
100 per year in the late 1990s to just 24 as of November 2002.” A drug
company’s misleading ad campaign may have run its course before the FDA
gets around to sending a warning letter, if it does at all.

The listing of warning letters on the FDA’s web site shows that the
downward trend has continued to the present. (The Consumer Reports
article also details a number of other questionable practices by the
industry.) Even drugs with proven harmful or fatal effects are merely
taken off the market. The manufacturer is not raided, its assets are not
seized, and its officers do not do time.

Like the pharmaceutical industry, the medical establishment is not
blameless in attempting to suppress alternative remedies. In 1976, in
what came to be known as the Wilk case, several Chicago-area
chiropractors sued the American Medical Association (AMA), which they
claimed had conspired to destroy their profession. The case went on for
fifteen years, in the course of which nearly a million pages of
documents, many from the AMA’s files, were disclosed.

As author John Robbins put it, “It was revealed quite clearly that, for
many years, the AMA had deliberately and systematically conspired to
destroy not only chiropractic, but midwifery, homeopathy, naturopathy,
and herbalism. The whole collection of what we call wholistic and
alternative medicine had been the AMA’s target for destruction.” The
case ultimately went to the U.S. Supreme Court, and the chiropractors won.

The medical and pharmaceutical industries’ interest in disparaging
alternative treatment is understandable. Several studies published in
medical journals point out that the number of visits per year to
alternative practitioners now exceeds visits to conventional physicians,
with most people paying out of their own pockets. This has been going on
since at least 1990 and is due to more people “seeking alternative
therapies, rather than increased visits per patient,” according to a
1998 study in JAMA. Clearly, all these people can’t be dupes of scam
artists.

* * *

Considering that half of American men and a third of American women will
come down with cancer, the question must be asked: whom is the FDA
“protecting”? The agency has effectively become the enforcement branch
of the medical and pharmaceutical industries, which want to preserve the
status quo. The pharmaceutical industry can’t make any money on natural
remedies, and the doctors don’t want to lose the vast amounts of funding
poured into cancer research.

It’s been said that those with serious illnesses are vulnerable to
fraud, and some may be—although they’re equally vulnerable to a doctor’s
pitch for conventional treatment that doesn’t work. But unlike in
decades past, virtually everyone now has access to a wide variety of
health information on the Internet—and they’re using it.

A survey in 2000 by the Pew Internet & American Life Project shows that
“fifty-two million American adults, or 55% of those with Internet
access, have used the Web to get health or medical information.” Of
these, 91% “have looked for material related to a physical illness.” And
“for the 21 million health seekers who say they were swayed by what they
read online the last time they sought health information . . . 70% said
the Web information influenced their decision about how to treat an
illness or condition.”

People are looking elsewhere because they’re realizing that the Western
approach is expensive, debilitating, and often ineffective—that it
treats the symptoms rather than the cause. We’re in the middle of a
changing paradigm—changing from the concept of attacking disease to one
of eliminating it by restoring balance.

Surely we, as adults, have the right to choose the type of healthcare
treatment available to us without the government unilaterally
eliminating our options. Isn’t it time for the FDA to heed what the
patient at one alternative cancer clinic said to them during a raid?
“We’re all adults here, making free-will choices. Why don’t you get out
of here and leave us alone?”

Aside from restricting our healthcare choices, what justifies the FDA’s
gestapo/KGB tactics in smashing, intimidating, demoralizing, and
bankrupting its targets, even before a trial to determine their guilt or
innocence? What justifies seizing their assets, impounding their
computers and business records, confiscating their personal papers and
effects, destroying their products and ingredients, and holding them in
prison for extended periods?
Very few people can do what Caton and others like him have done. It
takes tremendous initiative to come up with a product that works, make
it available commercially, and assume the risks of being put out of
business and perhaps imprisoned by the FDA.

Perhaps most important, Caton resisted the temptation to get rich on
other people’s suffering, which can’t be said of the pharmaceutical
industry. He could have made much more money and put enough away to
cover his eventual ruinous legal expenses—but he didn’t. Shouldn’t we be
encouraging and rewarding people like this rather than persecuting them
and destroying their lives?
greyhackles - 25 Jul 2008 01:52 GMT
Um, ok, this is gonna sound harsh, but after all that bullshit you've posted,
the image you've conjured is: "Dead Woman Walking".

Good luck to you, anyway...
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:45 GMT
> Um, ok, this is gonna sound harsh, but after all that bullshit you've posted,
> the image you've conjured is: "Dead Woman Walking".
>
> Good luck to you, anyway...

If CS is so toxic why doesn't the FDA have records of it?
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 01:02 GMT
> And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/forbidden_fruit.htm

The Forbidden Fruit

Jason Vale, a New Yorker and former arm-wrestling champion, used apricot
seeds to cure his own cancer and then began selling them on the
Internet, along with injectable laetrile. It does sound ludicrous at
first, but the idea has been around since the fifties, and the medical
profession has been ridiculing it and trying to stamp it out for just as
long, without success. Apricot seeds contain a cyanide compound that
targets cancer cells.

In Vale’s case, at least, the FDA sent him warning letters. He
subsequently signed a consent decree saying he would stop, but he
continued selling. He was tried for violating the consent decree,
convicted, and sentenced to five years and three months. With time
served and good behavior, it could be about half that.

According to one report of the sentencing, the judge said he didn’t
believe the numerous letters he had received, in which satisfied
customers of Vale’s claimed the apricot seeds had “saved them,” and that
some letters were “over the top” in alleging an FDA–pharmaceutical
industry conspiracy. Although Vale’s conviction was for violating the
consent decree, his imprisonment is ultimately a result of selling
apricot seeds as a cure for cancer. Vale’s case is documented on his web
site, www.seedoffaith.com.

Upon Vale’s conviction in 2003, the FDA issued a press release, which
quotes then FDA commissioner Mark McClellan: “The FDA takes seriously
its responsibility to protect patients from unproven products being
peddled on the internet by modern day snake oil salesmen such as the
defendant in this case. There is no scientific evidence that Laetrile
offers anything but false hope to cancer patients.” The press release
also quotes prosecuting U.S. attorney Roslynn Mauskopf: “This office
will not tolerate any disregard for the lawful orders of this Court. Nor
will it tolerate fraud, especially when it foists dangerous products on
a vulnerable public.”

These sanctimonious, Soviet-style pronouncements merely repeat the
conventional line about laetrile. Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
(MSKCC) in New York, the nation’s largest cancer treatment facility, has
claimed for decades (and still claims, on its web site) that “research
has demonstrated only the absence of beneficial effect” for apricot
seeds, otherwise known as amygdalin, laetrile, and vitamin B17.

However, Ralph Moss, Ph.D., who was assistant director of public affairs
at MSKCC for five years in the mid-seventies, noticed during his time
there that the institution’s claim about laetrile’s ineffectiveness
contradicted what its own research showed. When he pointed this out, he
was fired.

Moss went on to write books about alternative approaches to cancer and
other health problems, pointing out the substantial representation of
pharmaceutical, petrochemical, and automotive industry executives on the
MSKCC boards of directors and managers. He cites this as the reason for
MSKCC’s persistent lack of interest in natural remedies for cancer
(which would conflict with the pharmaceutical industry’s agenda) or
environmental causes of cancer (to which the petrochemical and
automotive industries contribute significantly).
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 01:04 GMT
And
> of course, I must remember that the government and big pharma have a
> huge conspiracy going on to keep us from having access to anything that
> will REALLY cure our ills.....  (gag)

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_cozy_relationship.htm
The FDA's Cozy Little Relationship

Relationships between the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry have led
to a “revolving door,” in which pharmaceutical executives go to work for
the FDA, making regulatory decisions on matters affecting their industry
and sometimes even their own former companies. When their time at the
FDA is over, they go back to higher-paying jobs in the industry.

A web search for “FDA revolving door” turns up numerous examples, but
it’s no longer necessary even to go to the trouble. The revolving door
was formalized in 2001, with the creation of the Food and Drug
Administration Alumni Association (FDAAA).

The FDAAA’s web site says the group is “a non-profit, non-lobbying
organization dedicated to serving those who have supported the consumer
protection mission of the U.S. FDA.” Oddly, however, pharmaceutical
industry lobbyists and p.r. people are well represented on its board of
directors.

Among the FDAAA's goals are to “enable former colleagues to stay current
on major scientific and regulatory issues facing FDA, educate the public
about the vital work of the FDA . . . ,” and “assist FDA in recruiting
alumni with specialized expertise and institutional knowledge during
critical situations.” The web site also says that the FDAAA’s “core
mission is to help alumni stay in touch with the issues of the day
facing FDA and support the Agency’s public health mission through
expertise-sharing, training and outreach opportunities.”

The FDAAA’s revenue “is primarily derived from member dues and outside
contributions.” As far as outside contributions go, “support from other
persons and institutions is welcome.” To facilitate recruiting alumni,
the home page has industry job postings—and the site can be accessed
from a link on the FDA’s site. The FDAAA’s logo incorporates the FDA’s
logo. In fact, the FDAAA’s office is in the same building as FDA
headquarters in Maryland. Its motto is “Serving Those Who Have Served.”

The chairman of the FDAAA, John C. Villforth, writes in the
organization’s first newsletter (November 2002) that in looking into the
idea of an alumni group, “we discovered that NIH, SSA, HCFA and
Congress, among others, have active alumni associations; other agencies
such as NRC, EPA and OSHA do not.” Perhaps it didn’t occur to them that
the latter three, like the FDA, are regulatory agencies and may not have
thought it appropriate for their officials to be fraternizing with
employees of the industry they regulate.

Villforth is on the board of directors of Vasogen, which makes heart
drugs, and EduNeering, which provides regulatory compliance “learning
solutions.” He has also been on the boards of other medical companies.

A few other examples:

The FDAAA’s treasurer and chairman of the finance committee, Jerome A.
Halperin, is president and CEO of the Food and Drug Law Institute
(FDLI). FDLI’s web site says its “500+ members comprise manufacturers
and suppliers of medicines . . . medical devices, food and cosmetics . .
. law firms, consulting firms, associations, and others.” Interestingly,
the stated goals of the FDLI, according to its web site, are quite
similar to those of the FDAAA: “providing high quality education and a
neutral forum for the generation of ideas and discussion of law and
public policy for its legal, policy and regulatory communities.”
Halperin was formerly vice president of technology for CIBA-GEIGY (now
Novartis) and in 2001 was appointed to the board of directors of
PharmQuest, which provides software to accelerate drug development.

James S. Benson, a member of the FDAAA board of directors, is also on
the board of Medical Device Consultants, “a leading consulting and
contract research organization for the medical device industry,”
according to the press release announcing his appointment to that
company’s board. He was formerly executive vice president for technology
and regulatory affairs at AdvaMed (formerly HIMA), which he has
described as “a trade association that represents more than 800
manufacturers of medical devices, diagnostic products, and medical
information systems.” The press release said Benson was the “lead
strategist for the association’s regulatory agenda.” FDAAA board member
Elizabeth Jacobson is executive vice president of AdvaMed.

Wayne L. Pines, another FDAAA board member and chairman of the
activities committee, is “president of regulatory services and health
care” for APCO, a “global communication consultancy”—a p.r. firm. Pines
“provides strategic counsel to clients facing crises or media,
legislative, regulatory or marketing problems.” Board member Gerald F.
Meyer is a senior consultant at AAC Consulting Group, which, its web
site says, “provides a full range of support and compliance assistance.
. . . offers a team of former high-level FDA officials and industry
experts.”

For those who might be suspicious of all this togetherness between the
FDA and employees and board members of the industries it ostensibly
regulates, the FDAAA has a code of ethics. Unfortunately, its
lofty-sounding but carefully worded constructions do not inspire
confidence. It says, for example, that members aren’t allowed to
“influence FDA policy or action in a manner other than that which [sic]
any member of the general public is legally entitled.”

Of course, if you have personal access in a social setting to FDA
regulatory officials who approve your product or could hire you or whom
you might hire, you’re already in a more favorable position than “any
member of the general public”—especially the small alternative
businesses the FDA feels it has a mandate to persecute.

Members aren’t allowed to lobby, either—but they don’t need to lobby.
They represent a community of interests. All they need to do is
network—for example, at a wine tasting at the Bretton Woods Conference
Center in October 2004—and they’re already way ahead. Whatever happened
to the idea of avoiding even the appearance of impropriety?

Violations of the ethical code are reviewed by . . . the board of
directors. If a violation is corroborated, the executive committee “may”
impose sanctions, including warning, suspension, and expulsion. So the
worst that can happen for an attempt to influence an FDA employee that’s
so flagrant it can’t be ignored is expulsion from the organization.
Sara - 25 Jul 2008 01:27 GMT
(snipped)

My apologies to this group for any part I had in pushing whatever buttons
that got Chardonney9 going with these awful posts.

and I'm officially kill-filing her now.   I can't read this garbage.

Sara
Cactus Jammies - 25 Jul 2008 01:34 GMT
> (snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sara

Me too Sara.  A nice healthy persecution complex sure helps to solidify a
position on anything.

Cactus Jammies
Paul - 25 Jul 2008 02:03 GMT
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:04 -0400, "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com>, in
message ID <_59ik.2497$dg.1666@fe097.usenetserver.com>, in the
newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>(snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Sara

I did read the first of her posts in its entirety but skipped over the
other two.  I do share her concerns about the state being excessively
authoritarian (even before reading her posts) but that is a separate
issue from whether certain alternative medicines actually work.  It
could be read that a con artist was shut down by the state and
stripped of the assets that were conned from people or it could be
read that a generous helpful person who did it for love was abused by
the state.  Whichever view someone takes, being detained without
charge for two months sounds outrageous.  Here in the UK the time
limit for detention without charge has recently increased to 42 days
but that is supposed to only be implemented for offences connected to
terrorism - the problem being that the state's definition of
"terrorism" gets looser with time.  Even without any terrorism
evident, the time limit is 7 days (unless they changed that too). When
you consider that in the 1970s, a charge had to be brought within 24
hours of arrest or the arrestee released, that's quite a change.
However, although (IMO) it's reasonable to be concerned about such
issues, that does deviate a long way from the main topic of this NG.
It's also a concern as to whether the FDA have been bought off by drug
companies.  I guess we will never know but I believe such things are
possible even though I am able to keep the "conspiracy theorist" side
of me well below the level of unprovoked paranoia.
chardonney9 - 26 Jul 2008 13:07 GMT
> I did read the first of her posts in its entirety but skipped over the
> other two.  I do share her concerns about the state being excessively
> authoritarian (even before reading her posts) but that is a separate
> issue from whether certain alternative medicines actually work.

Yes it is. I was addressing Sara's statement that denied there was such
a problem going on. Sorry to be redundant but if I posted just one it
would simply have been picked apart. I could post more but I think I
made my point.

  It
> could be read that a con artist was shut down by the state and
> stripped of the assets that were conned from people or it could be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> terrorism - the problem being that the state's definition of
> "terrorism" gets looser with time.

Feel fortunate. Here in the US, if they feel you are involved with
terrorism they can and do lock you up for as long as they want, with no
rights to a lawyer or speedy process of law. Some of them have come out
of such detention beaten so severely that they are permanently disabled.

I can't believe this is happening here in this country where freedom is
so cherished.

  Even without any terrorism
> evident, the time limit is 7 days (unless they changed that too). When
> you consider that in the 1970s, a charge had to be brought within 24
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> possible even though I am able to keep the "conspiracy theorist" side
> of me well below the level of unprovoked paranoia.

I think some of it will come out eventually. And to bring it back on
topic, some of the remedies being denied by the FDA actually help with
the side effects caused by the conventional treatments and if nothing
else would be wonderful to have if only for that reason.

To deny a possible cure or help with sx just because the big drug
companies can't control the profit is just plain wrong.

Cyndi
greyhackles - 27 Jul 2008 04:03 GMT
The plural of "anecdote" is not "proof"...
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT
> (snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sara

I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's
easier to hide and not think isn't it?
Waterspider - 25 Jul 2008 20:43 GMT
"chardonney9" <chardonney9@lalaland.net> proclaimed...

> I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's
> easier to hide and not think isn't it?

Yes, Chardonney, you're absolutely right. None of us know a damned thing
about liver disease, hepatitis c and its treatment. We're all brainwashed by
the pharmaceutical companies to believe that colloidal silver won't cure the
disease and we've not done any research on our own, our doctors are all
quacks and those of us cured by conventional treatment are just plain stupid
for putting those evil drugs in our bodies. And we're all mean and nasty
people, just unfairly picking on you because you're so much more intelligent
and better educated than the rest of us. I repent, o wise one, I bow down to
the great god Colloidal Silver! Oh please, Chardonnay, forgive us for being
so blind. Please, oh please, save us!!
chardonney9 - 25 Jul 2008 23:32 GMT
> "chardonney9" <chardonney9@lalaland.net> proclaimed...
>> I bet you call anything you don't understand garbage. Such a shame! It's
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> quacks and those of us cured by conventional treatment are just plain stupid
> for putting those evil drugs in our bodies.

There you go again, pretending you know what's in and on my mind.

I'm all for conventional treatments that work. I don't understand why
any of you would think to try combining treatments. Closed minds is all
I know. If the doctors were really interested in their patients I'd
trust them a whole lot more. And I did discuss possibly going into a
treatment program once the biopsy and viral count come back and someone
actually tells me what it said and what it means.

The more you post the more I know that you've never considered that I
may have some good points. This isn't a conversation it's a fairy tale,
with the regulars here making up what I meant and what I actually said
as you go along.

 And we're all mean and nasty
> people, just unfairly picking on you because you're so much more intelligent
> and better educated than the rest of us.

Again, something I never said or even alluded to. Better educated in
some areas obviously and not in others. It's a shame you can't really
talk to me like a person and take into consideration that I might just
know what I'm talking about. Your loss, not mine.

I repent, o wise one, I bow down to
> the great god Colloidal Silver! Oh please, Chardonnay, forgive us for being
> so blind. Please, oh please, save us!!

Take your shitty attitude and put it where the sun don't shine.
 
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