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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / July 2008Ping Chardonney9
After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... 1. You do not want to undergo a biopsy to determine the extent of your liver damage. 2. You do not want to even attempt peg-interferon/ribavirin treatment for your hepatitis c. 3. You believe that colloidal silver and other "alternative treatments" will, if not erradicate the hepatitis c virus, make you healthy. 4. You do not believe that you are critically ill. You blame your doctors for not giving you sufficient information, but I suspect they may have simply given up trying to educate you. You have been defensive and arguementive with people here who have attempted to correct your wrong assumptions and misinformation, along with trying to educate you about hepatitis c. If you continue to appear so close-minded and pig-headed, they'll give up on you too. You told us that you are depressed, and that you are self-medicating with St. John's wort, but you have decided that you're not a good candidate for treatment because you're depressed. I have to wonder what other types of self-medicating you do (and sincerely hope it doesn't include the odd glass of chardonnay, but nothing would surprise me at this point). Anyway, here's something to think about: if the St. John's wort is working for your depression, then you shouldn't worry about undertaking treatment with depression. Otherwise, you must admit that it's not working, and we're back to stop wasting your money on the stuff. Talk to your doctor about depression. Get a referral to Mental Health or get a prescription for a low-dose antidepressant. Or both. Depression is a symptom of liver disease, hepatitis c in particular. Curing hepatitis c will go a long way in dealing with your depression (and your fatigue, which is also a symptom). Another symptom of more advanced liver disease is mental confusion, and I have to say that your posts would lead at least a few people to wonder about your mental state. You say that you know people who have cured their hepatitis c with alternative treatments. I call bullshit on this one. Maybe you've talked to people who tell you that a friend of a friend cured their hep c with colloidal silver or milkthistle or whatever, but that's simply not true. Maybe you talked to someone directly who told you that they cured their hep c with an alternative treatment. Guess what? They didn't. Ask to see the most recent results of their viral load test, and you'll hear that their liver function tests are within normal range. Liver function tests may or MAY NOT relate to hepatitis c viral load. Don't even bother reading testimonials on cheesy websites trying to peddle a book or a dose of colloidal silver. You ask us to show evidence that colloidal silver cannot cure hepatitis c, but it's impossible to prove a negative. However, there is not one (I repeat, not even one) legitimate, documented case of hepatitis c being cured by colloidal siver or any other alternative treatment. Not one. Ever. I read the "study" for which you provided a link. This is not a legitimate study, it is a private experiment on only three patients. Nowhere in the text did the good doctor claim to cure hepatitis c, he only said his patients felt better, looked better and lowered their liver function test results. None of this relates to extent of liver damage. Remember, most people with hep c do not show or feel any symptoms until the disease has progressed to end stage, transplant time, and a liver transplant will not cure hepatitis c. The "information" in this "study" is outdated at best and by today's knowledge about the disease, it's inaccurate. Here's a quote from the article: "There are no remarkably effective treatments for chronic hepatitis C in general use. Interferon and antivirals have less than a 30% response rate." WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! When this was written, it was debatable but today it's incorrect. When this was written, pegylated interferon wasn't even to the clinical trial stage, but today it's the standard and successful treatment rates have roughly doubled. As well, the side-effects from the "new" pegylated-interferon with ribavirin treatment are substantially less and the peg-ifn is injected weekly instead of every three days. Treatment is weight-based today, which also contributes to the higher success rate. You're genotype 2, which is the easiest to cure (along with geno 3). Genotypes 2 and 3 undergo treatment for 26 weeks, rather than the 52 weeks that Geno 1 (the most common type) undergoes. Unlike your doctors and a few people here, I haven't given up on you yet. I think that, deep down, you really do want to get rid of this virus that's destroying your liver 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that you'd like to go back to living a healthy, happy life (which you probably can't even remember at this point). I'm here to tell you that you can do it, that you should do it, and that you're not only killing yourself but ruining the quality of what life you have left by playing around with alternatives. Go back to your doctor. Ask for antidepressants and ask for peg/ifn treatment. If you can't get it without the biopsy, great! And do some good research to find out what you should be including and avoiding in your diet, and follow it religiously. You've either had your head up in the clouds, or in the sand like an ostrich, or stuck up your arse like an idiot. Time to move on and start looking after yourself. You've only got one life, honey, might as well make it as good as you can. Good luck. Waterspider > After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The > Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > Waterspider Waterspider, very good post, I just hope you aren't talking to a brick wall. I would love to get rid of this dragon and try to remember feeling normal again (whatever that may be). Hopefully she will come to her senses before it is too late. If she just realized how lucky she is to have Geno 2 instead of 1, and how good her odds are a beating this sh.t, she would quit wasting her time/life with snake oil. Dwight > After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The > Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... > > 1. You do not want to undergo a biopsy to determine the extent of your liver > damage. I didn't know about biopsies till I came here. I'd love to have one. Why would I not want to know? Knowing is educational, I need to know what is going on because the docs sure aren't telling me. > 2. You do not want to even attempt peg-interferon/ribavirin treatment for > your hepatitis c. I hadn't till I came here. Now I'm considering it. > 3. You believe that colloidal silver and other "alternative treatments" > will, if not erradicate the hepatitis c virus, make you healthy. Show me they can't. Yes, I believe they can help me. I'm willing to look at evidence that I'm wasting my time. Nobody has been able to provide that. Anybody? > 4. You do not believe that you are critically ill. I wasn't told I was critically ill. I can't believe something I was not aware of. You think I'm faking my lack of knowledge? Is it unbelievable that my doc would not have me aware of the whole picture? I do too but it's happening to me which is why I want to talk to others in my position. > You blame your doctors for not giving you sufficient information, but I > suspect they may have simply given up trying to educate you. Nope, I actually broke down crying in the halls once, so mad because nobody would sit down and explain things to me. You have been > defensive and arguementive with people here who have attempted to correct > your wrong assumptions and misinformation, And giving absolutely no proof for their allegations. That's what I'm looking for. Show me what I'm doing won't work. I don't take anyone's word for it. Show me! along with trying to educate you > about hepatitis c. If you continue to appear so close-minded and pig-headed, > they'll give up on you too. > > You told us that you are depressed, and that you are self-medicating with > St. John's wort, Nope, I used to take it, for years and it worked well. Something changed awhile back and I got into a depression it would not touch. I'm now on generic zoloft. It happened about the same time I started getting the body pains and headaches I thought was my parathyroid gland. > but you have decided that you're not a good candidate for > treatment because you're depressed. I have to wonder what other types of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > depression. Otherwise, you must admit that it's not working, and we're back > to stop wasting your money on the stuff. Did you ever look into St John's Wort? It's the number one med prescribed in Germany for depression. Read the above so you can stop making up things about me you don't know. > Talk to your doctor about > depression. Get a referral to Mental Health or get a prescription for a > low-dose antidepressant. Or both. Already did that. I had to try many different ones over the years before I found one I could tolerate at all but I did. Depression is a symptom of liver disease, > hepatitis c in particular. Curing hepatitis c will go a long way in dealing > with your depression (and your fatigue, which is also a symptom). Then why have people posted on here that they are still tired after successful treatment? How long does it take to get your energy back? And did you not see the post where I said the silver and lipoic acid gave me energy? I could finally get up and clean the house! It's wonderful! Since I know positively they aren't hurting my liver or anything else (I did my research) isn't just that worth looking into? Another > symptom of more advanced liver disease is mental confusion, and I have to > say that your posts would lead at least a few people to wonder about your > mental state. Let's see how many digs you can fit into one post..... You really think putting me down is going to help here? > You say that you know people who have cured their hepatitis c with > alternative treatments. I call bullshit on this one. Maybe you've talked to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > being cured by colloidal siver or any other alternative treatment. Not one. > Ever. That you know of. > I read the "study" for which you provided a link. This is not a legitimate > study, it is a private experiment on only three patients. Nowhere in the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Unlike your doctors and a few people here, I haven't given up on you yet. Then you need to stop pissing me off when I'm being dead serious. I > think that, deep down, you really do want to get rid of this virus that's > destroying your liver 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that you'd like > to go back to living a healthy, happy life (which you probably can't even > remember at this point). Why do you assume I've ever wanted anything else? I'm here to tell you that you can do it, that you > should do it, and that you're not only killing yourself but ruining the > quality of what life you have left by playing around with alternatives. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > research to find out what you should be including and avoiding in your diet, > and follow it religiously. I know more about diet than their expert. I actually taught her a few things. Been on diets all my life. They would not consider a low carb diet at all which is best for me being diabetic and just recently the diabetes association just came to their senses and said they *finally* believe that it works. > You've either had your head up in the clouds, or in the sand like an > ostrich, or stuck up your arse like an idiot. Time to move on and start > looking after yourself. You've only got one life, honey, might as well make > it as good as you can. Good luck. Do you really think saying such things will make me want to listen to you? I'm getting good info here and I've claimed it as such all along. Please back off and let me get the info I need. You know at least as well as I do that I *have* to find out all I can to do the right thing and that is all I'm trying to do. I'd hate to plonk you this soon. > Waterspider >> 1. You do not want to undergo a biopsy to determine the extent of your >> liver damage. > I didn't know about biopsies till I came here. I'd love to have one. Why > would I not want to know? Knowing is educational, I need to know what is > going on because the docs sure aren't telling me. What's going on is your liver is being destroyed by replecation of the hepatitis c virus. This is common knowledge, easily researched. A biopsy will tell you the degree of destruction that has already occurred, the stage of your liver disease. Most people undergo a biopsy because it's required by their doctor before the prescription for peg/ifn is approved. Most people, if they don't have to do it, don't, because it's unpleasant and painful. >> 2. You do not want to even attempt peg-interferon/ribavirin treatment for >> your hepatitis c. > I hadn't till I came here. Now I'm considering it. I'm happy to hear this :-) >> 3. You believe that colloidal silver and other "alternative treatments" >> will, if not erradicate the hepatitis c virus, make you healthy. > Show me they can't. Yes, I believe they can help me. I'm willing to look > at evidence that I'm wasting my time. Nobody has been able to provide > that. Anybody? It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove it doesn't work. It is impossible to prove a negative. For example, it is impossible to prove that picking your nose every month under the full moon at midnight while dancing naked to a Frank Sinatra song will not cure your hepatitis c. That science cannot prove colloidal silver cures hep c should be more than enough evidence for you to give up on the crap. >> 4. You do not believe that you are critically ill. > I wasn't told I was critically ill. I can't believe something I was not > aware of. You think I'm faking my lack of knowledge? Is it unbelievable > that my doc would not have me aware of the whole picture? I do too but > it's happening to me which is why I want to talk to others in my position. Everyone on this board has been in your position of being newly diagnosed with hepatitis c, with being scared and being overwhelmed about the whole thing and feeling like they are totally ignorant. The best way to deal with this is to do your own research, to learn as much as you can. There is a lot of knowledge here at ash-c, in some cases even more than a particular gp may have, so do take advantage of us. We're happy to share our knowledge to anyone open to learning. >> You blame your doctors for not giving you sufficient information, but I >> suspect they may have simply given up trying to educate you. > Nope, I actually broke down crying in the halls once, so mad because > nobody would sit down and explain things to me. Bursting into tears will get you attention, but it's not the best way to get someone to take you seriously. Usually your doctor isn't the one who tells you about hep c, too often you're simply handed a useless pamphlet but sometimes a nurse can give good information. You might even have a hep c support group in your area, where you could meet and talk to people in your position. Again, this is probably your best source for solid information. > You have been >> defensive and arguementive with people here who have attempted to correct >> your wrong assumptions and misinformation, > And giving absolutely no proof for their allegations. That's what I'm > looking for. Show me what I'm doing won't work. I don't take anyone's word > for it. Show me! Once again... It is impossible to prove a negative. > along with trying to educate you >> about hepatitis c. If you continue to appear so close-minded and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > generic zoloft. It happened about the same time I started getting the body > pains and headaches I thought was my parathyroid gland. Sorry, I obviously missed that. Body pains and headaches are symptoms of hepatitis c. Because you have hepatitis c, I doubt it's your parathyroid gland. >> but you have decided that you're not a good candidate for treatment >> because you're depressed. I have to wonder what other types of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in Germany for depression. Read the above so you can stop making up things > about me you don't know. Sorry, I missed your post about Zoloft. Yes, I have researched St. John's wort. It appears to be effective (combined with exercise) in cases of mild depression. In moderate depression, it is no more effective than a placebo. Because a placebo is not effective at all, this means that St. John's wort is not effective in cases of moderate depression. So, it appears that as your depression worsened, the St. John's wort became useless. >> Talk to your doctor about depression. Get a referral to Mental Health or >> get a prescription for a low-dose antidepressant. Or both. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Then why have people posted on here that they are still tired after > successful treatment? How long does it take to get your energy back? So you see that it takes time to get your energy back after treatment. This varies among individuals and is affected by many factors including the general health of the individual. Judging from people who post here (although very few of us stick around after we've completed successful treatment), it's about six months until you're back to "normal." In my case, I felt fabulous in just a couple of weeks after finishing treatment, but I know I'll never regain the energy levels I had before I contracted hep c. This is because I got hep c in my 20s and I'm now in my 50s, so I can't blame it on treatment. And > did you not see the post where I said the silver and lipoic acid gave me > energy? I could finally get up and clean the house! It's wonderful! Since > I know positively they aren't hurting my liver or anything else (I did my > research) isn't just that worth looking into? My treatment for fatigue, before I did treatment, was spirulina and green tea. Waaaay cheaper than silver, but it won't cure your hep c. Oh, right... neither will the silver. > Another >> symptom of more advanced liver disease is mental confusion, and I have to >> say that your posts would lead at least a few people to wonder about your >> mental state. > Let's see how many digs you can fit into one post..... > You really think putting me down is going to help here? Do not take this personally. I am not putting you down, I am trying to give you some much-needed information for your own good. >> You say that you know people who have cured their hepatitis c with >> alternative treatments. I call bullshit on this one. Maybe you've talked [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> alternative treatment. Not one. Ever. > That you know of. Believe me, if there was one I would know about it. >> I read the "study" for which you provided a link. This is not a >> legitimate study, it is a private experiment on only three patients. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> Unlike your doctors and a few people here, I haven't given up on you yet. > Then you need to stop pissing me off when I'm being dead serious. And you need to stop being defensive and taking it personally when people give you facts that conflict with your unsubstantiated beliefs. > I >> think that, deep down, you really do want to get rid of this virus that's >> destroying your liver 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that you'd >> like to go back to living a healthy, happy life (which you probably can't >> even remember at this point). > Why do you assume I've ever wanted anything else? I don't assume you want anything else-- read again what I said, you misunderstood. > I'm here to tell you that you can do it, that you >> should do it, and that you're not only killing yourself but ruining the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > association just came to their senses and said they *finally* believe that > it works. If you know so much about diets, then why are you still overweight and why have you been on diets all your life? >> You've either had your head up in the clouds, or in the sand like an >> ostrich, or stuck up your arse like an idiot. Time to move on and start >> looking after yourself. You've only got one life, honey, might as well >> make it as good as you can. Good luck. > Do you really think saying such things will make me want to listen to you? I will give you clear and concise, sometimes blunt, facts. If you want strokes and warm fuzzies and someone to share your belief in the magick of colloidal silver, then simply stop reading my posts. However, if that's the case I suspect no one else will bother responding to you. I'm not here to make friends with you, or to make your life miserable. I simply want to share my knowledge with you. Take it or leave it. I'm getting good info here and I've claimed it as such all along. > Please back off and let me get the info I need. You know at least as well > as I do that I *have* to find out all I can to do the right thing and that > is all I'm trying to do. And that's exactly what you should be doing, but your posts contradict that. You come across as trying to defend, if not promote, the use of colloidal silver and other alternatives as a cure for hepatitis c. You type more complaints about your doctors and your life than you type questions about your disease. You dismiss good advice with responses like, "prove to me that it doesn't work." > I'd hate to plonk you this soon. Do what you want, I don't really give a rat's a.s either way because I'm not here to make friends (although it would prove to me that your head really is in the sand, like as ostrich). But, because this may be the last post of mine that you read, let me tell you one more thing... There are a number of people on this newsgroup who have undergone treatment, and it has failed. Some of them did it a second and even a third time, and it failed. They are sick and they are dying. They know it and we know it, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Over the years, a number of regulars on this group have died because the did not or could not do treatment, or it failed. We read their posts until there were no more posts, or an emotional post from a friend notifying us that Dez or Shawn or whoever was dead. Hepatitis c is not something to f.ck around with. It's serious and it's deadly. So, for you-- you who have been offered treatment and you who have a damned good chance of having it cure your hep c-- to blather on about colloidal silver and overweight and nobody will spend time with you, is highly disrespectful to the memory of those who would have given their right arm to be in your position, and it's downright insulting to those reading your posts who have had treatment fail, sometimes repeatedly. The decision to undergo treatment is yours and yours alone. A few folks here decided to pass on treatment, at least for the time being, and I respect their decision because it was based on solid research, medical knowledge and their particular situation (minimal liver damage, short-term infection etc.). You, on the other hand, have had hepatitis c over thirty years so you likely have bridging fibrosis/cirrhosis which normally develops in 20-30 years. You have a number of symptoms: fatigue, body pain, headaches, gall stones and possibly more that you've not mentioned or you've not related to your hepatitis c. You have an excellent chance of being cured of hep c because you are genotype 2 and you are female. It's a no-brainer. Well looks like I Missed a lot of this whole stream. So rather than advise, or prosthelitize (sp?), I will just state my own case. Current Age 55 Diagnosed Hep C late 2005, did Peg/Ribarivirn tx thru 2006. Virus Free so far, knock on wood, almost two years later. Char - I too suffered from depression adn fatigue for years and years etc. But sh.t, as a single mother who raised three boys on my own working fulltime to support myself and them from the time they were 4.6, and 8, who the hell wouldn't be depressed and fatigued? Why should I have thought it was anything more than that?? Spent lots of years and money on antidepressants to keep me going etc etc. I thought I took great care of myself - after all, I was "all my kids had". I had annual physicals and all the usual things one does to try to take care of my health. This included all the "usual" annual bloodwork, including liver function tests, so imagine my shock at being told I had this disease, being told that I'd probably had it for 30 years (like many people here) with no IDEA there was anything "wrong" - then undergoing a liver biopsy, and finding my liver was at stage 3 fibrosis. (I'm sure your research has led you to know that there are only four stages, and Stage 4 is Cirrhosis.) with severe inflammation. Yet even at this point my liver enzymes were only MILDLY evevagted, and at my questioning, my primary care doctor had ASSURED me, that this was nothing more than one of those As We Get Older Things, fat deposits start to build up in your liver, you've gained some weight, blah blah blah... it wasn't until I saw someone else on an unrelated matter that the other medical person (not even an MD, mind you!) was "extremely concerned" about the fact that my liver enzymes had been very slowly, bit by bit going higher for about three years....mind you they still were not alarmingly high, but she saw that pattern that they were continuing to go up and insisted I pursue it. Go figure. Millions and millions of littlve viruses running rampany thru my body for decades, destroying my liver day by day, and NOTHING showing up in the usual medical tests, exams etc. I reflect often about what the outcome might have been had I not "chanced" to meet up with that one person, and had just continued seeing my regular Primary Care doc forward. He probably would have stood over my coffin telling me that my Mildly Elevated Liver Enzyes were absolutely nothing to worry about. You know now what you are dealing with - HEP C - So the question is what you are going to do with it. I agree the liver biopsy is the only real way to determine the amount of liver damage.. Ultrasound will show some things, but the biopsy is the bottom line. At best you have a biopsy and find that the damage to your liver is minimal ( rather unlikely, in reality if you have had this for years and years) and you then have the option to sit back and try to take care of yourself in the hope that perhaps "better" cures come down the road in the next years. At worst, you find out you are one step away from the grave, or at least from liver failure..... My biopsy results shocked me into action, and believe me I did not go into treatment uninformed or unaware of the risks, possible side effects etc etc. It seemed like my best course of action to attack this Beast as soon as possible. Hanging around thinking about it for a few years did not seem like a Good Plan for me... I certainly DID take exception to the fact that this Cowardly Virus had been hiding in my unseen for all those years, doing its best to destroy me and my health. For me it was "simple" - Show Yourself You little Bastard, if you think you are so Tough, and take me on man to man, and we'll see who's tougher.... Possibly you have been attempting to treat your fatigue/depression etc thru natural remedies, which a great many people do. Nothng wrong with that. But its kind of like trying to treat depression by eliminating unhappy people, or bad situations from your life in the belief that the depressiin will go away - which certainly CAN help if the depression is basically situational.... But if the depression is rooted in the consequences of real physical illness, removing all the a.sholes from your life won't help much at all ;) Nor, I suspect will drinking enough Green Tea, or swallowing enough St Johns Wort. On the other hand those things may not hurt you either, but I wouldn't bet my LIFE on them. I also took a look at the link you put up regarding that article and I have to admit the second the link came up, the first thing that went thru my mind was "oh another Shaman looking to sell his book or Miracle Cure!" etc. I work in information technology and am exposed to all kinds of the very best medical journals and research, on a daily basis I have to tell you, and there was nothing professional appearing about this entire thing. BUT I am willing to keep an open mind and research this person, and the "study". I"ll let you know what I turn up :) My personal feeling is that now knowing that it is Hep C is the root of these problems, perhaps you can look at these problems from a different perspective. Putting corn starch on Poison Ivy rash may soothe it, but the best course of action is to rid yourself of, and stay away form Poison Ivy.... Knowlege is your Friend. Don't let doctors medical personnel put you off. If you aren't getting the answers you need, just say who else can I talk to? I may have missed it but I dont' recall you mentioning Health Insurance or your status on that, but I have to assume since you talk about so many different medical issues, you have insurance. If you do, then USE IT. As for the thought that you may be ahead of others in your thinking, I can only say that ignoring reality of this disease and its consequences could leave you ahead of others in no longer thinking, period. Or breathing for that matter. Keep an open mind. It IS, as they say, a personal choice, but make it wisely. All the best of luck - Deb > > 4. You do not believe that you are critically ill. > > I wasn't told I was critically ill. I can't believe something I was not > aware of. You think I'm faking my lack of knowledge? Is it unbelievable > that my doc would not have me aware of the whole picture? I do too but > it's happening to me which is why I want to talk to others in my position. Being critically ill is a great reason to start treatment for hepatitis c. Ironically, so is NOT being critically ill. If you are very ill with hep c, you obviously need to either save your liver ASAP, or find a new liver. And if you can save your liver, you need to, because the number of people who NEED donor livers outnumbers the number of AVAILABLE livers many times over. Thousands and thousands of people die in the US alone waiting for donor livers. Don't become one of them. But if you aren't that sick, consider this: The sooner you start treatment after contracting hep c, the better your chances of clearing the virus. This has to do with many things, but largely with the fact that as hep c replicates and damages the liver, it creates abnormally structured scar tissue in which the virus can "hide" from interferon/ antiviral medications. The less damaged your liver is, the easier it is to get rid of these nasty little &%4@ers. Here's a video (posted previously) about someone who, like yourself, had a genotype requiring only 24 weeks of treatment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYMTmCoGtoo "TX-012" <withbacon@aol.com> wrote in message news:a0309095-79b9-486b-8502- (snipped) Here's a video (posted previously) about someone who, like yourself, had a genotype requiring only 24 weeks of treatment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYMTmCoGtoo ================ Great video, thanks for posting this. I never saw that before, but just posted it to my Facebook profile. Sara >> After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The >> Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... [quoted text clipped - 174 lines] >> >> Waterspider if you really want info, you'll pay attention to spidey. she does know of which she speaks. If you've done so much research, you should know these things you say you didn't know til you came here. The main sites that come up when you google hepc and/or start reading about it at legitimate sites tell you all the things we've been trying to tell you. I do agree with most of what spidey said.. and I truly believe you are looking for your info in all the wrong places. It hasn't been that long since I was researching info on HepC, and I didn't have any problem finding sites that explained about biopsies, current treatments, and tons of other good information. whatever. good luck to you Sara On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:52:19 -0400, chardonney9 <chardonney9@notearthlink.net>, in message ID <3ZKdnYFsIdEMuuTVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >> 3. You believe that colloidal silver and other "alternative treatments" >> will, if not erradicate the hepatitis c virus, make you healthy. > >Show me they can't. Yes, I believe they can help me. I'm willing to look >at evidence that I'm wasting my time. Nobody has been able to provide >that. Anybody? The trouble with taking this line is that it would be impossible to totally refute the case for colloidal silver until you were very sick - possibly too sick to take interferon or too sick for a transplant. AS WS says in another post, you can't prove a negative. I cannot prove that the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist either but, IMO, there is more chance that the Loch Ness monster exists than of colloidal silver getting rid ofd your hep-c. >> 4. You do not believe that you are critically ill. > >I wasn't told I was critically ill. I can't believe something I was not >aware of. You think I'm faking my lack of knowledge? Is it unbelievable >that my doc would not have me aware of the whole picture? I do too but >it's happening to me which is why I want to talk to others in my position. Unfortunately, I have witnessed some poor quality medical practitioners too (along with some very good ones). My biggest complaint was also about lack of information. It's as if some doctors decide that what is going on inside your body is none of your business. Thankfully, the nurse used to scribble some of the test results on secretive pieces of paper and sneak them to me. >And giving absolutely no proof for their allegations. That's what I'm >looking for. Show me what I'm doing won't work. I don't take anyone's >word for it. Show me! Of course that can only be shown with certainty once your very sick. Hopefully it won't come to that. Ya know, I made my choices without knowing a lot of what you all have just told me. Somehow I'm the idiot because of that. Whatever! Most of you were nice and thank you for that. Char No, not an idiot at all, you have been stubborn, defensive and became passive aggressive. Not an idiot, just human like the rest of us. get the biopsy, take the tx, come back in six or seven months singing a happy song! best wishes, with Metta cactus jammies ~~~~~~~~~~ > Ya know, I made my choices without knowing a lot of what you all have just > told me. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Char > After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The > Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > Waterspider great post WS. thank you Sara > great post WS. thank you > Sara Thank *you*! It means a lot, considering we've had our little differences in the past. >> great post WS. thank you >> Sara > > Thank *you*! It means a lot, considering we've had our little differences > in the past. No more Riba Rage here :)) you spent a lot of time trying to share what you know with someone who doesn't seem to want to hear what you have to say -- I hope you've at least gotten through to some lurkers who will be helped by your words. Everyone wants a 'magic' solution to the HepC issue... but those of us who've gone through the research, the fear, and finally the treatment know there's no magic out there, just guts and determination -- and a little luck. I am with you, I cry for those who go through so much and the tx doesn't work for them. Things are getting better, and one day it'll be an easy cure. Today it's not, and it takes courage to fight the dragon with the weapons we have available. oops, babbling. I just want to shake Char and tell her to wake up and find a doctor who will work with her. She's great at making excuses and chasing dreams, better she use her energy to fight that dragon. And we know there are resources out there for uninsured Heppers... so no excuses are going to fly here -- "sh.t or get off the pot" seems to apply. BTW, I know I've told you this in the past, but it's been a while. Yeah, we may have our differences, but ultimately when I first found out I had HepC and started reading this group, your words had a big influence on me and on how I handled being on TX. You know a lot about the virus, the treatment, and how to deal with the side effects. I hope you realize how much you do help folks when they come to this group for support -- and some of your stories of the experiences you had during TX are priceless :) thanks again S >>> great post WS. thank you >>> Sara [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > thanks again > S And thank you again. You seem to understand my frustration with Chardonney, but you may not realize that I was exactly like her when I was first diagnosed. I had been told-- by a friend with hep c-- how horrible the treatment was, that it killed people, that it didn't cure hep c, that it was worse than the disease and so on. She told me that I could live a long and productive life with vitamin and herbal supplements and by being careful with my diet. She told me I would die *with* hep c, not of it. She had printouts of study results, books and a wealth of anecdotal evidence to back up her claims. Of course I bought into it! Luckily I found this group and got some straight info, or I would be dead today instead of cured, healthy and happy (my biopsy revealed cirrhosis and I was told I probably had five years before my liver failed). I shared what I learned with my friend, but she refused to consider treatment and finally stopped talking to me not long after I announced my svr. I don't see her any more because she doesn't leave her home except for medical appointments, but I will never forget watching a vibrant, intelligent and attractive wife and mother deteriorate into a bloated, yellowing, depressed, confused and angry person dying of liver disease. It haunts me because it is so wrong and because it shouldn't be happening. She could have done treatment easier than most because she has a loving and supportive, financially secure family. We might still be friends if I supported her decision to cure her hep c with milkthistle, vitamins, enzymes and liver tonics, but I can't lie to a friend and I can't shut up when I see someone killing themselves. C'est la vie. At least I tried. And I will never stop trying, regardless if it's a friend or a Chardonney or a total stranger on the street. I feel sad for those who don't try, those who are in denial, those who give up, but at least I try. So you see, there's a personal motivation here too. But, as you said above, "oops, babbling!" You mentioned Facebook in another post. Dunno if this link will work, but please do drop by... http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=795974851 On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:45:17 -0700, "Waterspider" <nospam@all.com>, in message ID <KK6dnQVuXsx-iuTVnZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@posted.deltacablecommunications>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >You told us that you are depressed, and that you are self-medicating with >St. John's wort, but you have decided that you're not a good candidate for >treatment because you're depressed. A very to the point post as usual WS. The bit I've quoted concerns me as I though that St John's Wort shouldn't be taken by people with a compromised liver. >After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The >Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... <SNIP> >Waterspider Hey Chardonney, A few thoughts for you -- take them for whatever they're worth to you: 1. If your doctors won't tell you anything, FIRE THEM! You're paying for medical services and you're entitled to you you're paying for. Do not rely on doctors, or anyone else, for understanding what is and is going to happen to you as time progresses. Use the Internet -- Google in particular -- to research Hepatitis C for yourself. 2. My wife is an expert in Naturopathy, Homeopathy, vitamins and herbal treatments and probably some 'opathys I don't even know about. When I was finally diagnosed with Hep-C she was the first to tell me not to rely on natural or alternative remedies as a cure for hepatitis. It is extremely unlikely that alternative treatments have the ability to punch through the hard protein shell surrounding a constantly mutating RNA virus and destroy it when your body's own "Hunter-Killer" T-Cells can't. 3. If they make you feel better and don't cause your liver more problems or prevent you from starting a combined treatment (Peg-Interferon with Ribivirin) then by al means do what feels good. Do not, however, choose the colloidal silver over the, proven, treatment I already mentioned. 4. If you have genotype 2, you're one lucky Hep-C victim since, as WaterSpider noted, it responds very well to short terms treatment and the cure rate for this genotype is tremendous. I have genotype 1 sub-type "A" at borderline stage 3/4 -- I'd give an arm to have genotype 2. 5. Now that you've been diagnosed with Hep-C, don't let GP's try to treat it. Find yourself a good Gastroenterologist (GI) that specializes in Hepatology. Universities with their own hospitals are a great place to look since thay are ofter doing studies that include the newest, approved, treatments and are generally more upu-to-date on the disease and what's happening in that field of research. Best wishes to you -- go get well! -- Steve >> After reading the numerous posts to you and your responses in the For The >> Newbies thread, I've come to some conclusions... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > going to happen to you as time progresses. Use the Internet -- Google > in particular -- to research Hepatitis C for yourself. I'm getting free services from the county so I'm stuck with what I can get. The good part is that I am at a teaching hospital so I'm supposed to get some of the most recent treatment out there. The drugs are good, just the doctors are overworked and can't really do their job. > 2. My wife is an expert in Naturopathy, Homeopathy, vitamins and > herbal treatments and probably some 'opathys I don't even know about. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Do not, however, choose the colloidal silver over the, proven, > treatment I already mentioned. I wouldn't do that. I've tried the CS and it's great for energy but slow on killing especially if you don't take massive doses. I have been trying two other treatments and want to see what they have accomplished. Once I get another viral count and insist on a biopsy (thanks for that info!) I will make a decision. > 4. If you have genotype 2, you're one lucky Hep-C victim since, as > WaterSpider noted, it responds very well to short terms treatment and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the newest, approved, treatments and are generally more upu-to-date on > the disease and what's happening in that field of research. Well, that's what I have at present. I'm just not thrilled or trusting because of several other incidents that include ending up with a half numb hand and more. I've had several docs insist on giving me Tramadol for pain while I'm on anti-depressants and when I called them on it, all they could say is they do it all the time. As if doing something wrong all the time makes it right. At least the psychiatrist knew better and told me not to take it. I had to wait about a month for pain meds of any kind because I refused the Tramadol and because there is no way to directly contact your own doctor. All you can do is leave a message and usually it's a nurse who gets back to you and of course they can't write scripts. The one specialist actually threw me out of his office and refused to treat me because I refused the Tramadol. Now I find out here that my body pains and headaches may be a hep c thing and not my parathyroid, which was giving me problems but something I am taking actually shrunk that tumor so now they won't operate and take it out. > Best wishes to you -- go get well! > > -- > Steve Thanks for being a friendly voice among the flamers! And I don't see why the two modalities can't be mixed. If CS gives energy why not take it just for that reason? I make it at home so it's not expensive. It's kept me cold and flu free for a long time. Milk thistle doesn't cure it at all but it surely supports the liver and my doc is ok with me taking it. Char >Thanks for being a friendly voice among the flamers! You haven't been flamed. If you check the messages closely, you should be able to tell from some of posts that a couple of people have been re-reading information that is directly related to the concerns you have posted here. No one here is talking down to you, but no one has been sugar coating things either. |
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