Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / March 2008

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Jamffer - 21 Mar 2008 21:31 GMT
March 17, 2008
Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV

http://www.hepatitis-central.com/mt/archives/2008/03/abandoning_3_vi.html

All smoking and fat food.  Another reason to get treatment.

They should add (high sugar diet) to the no-no list too.
TX-012 - 21 Mar 2008 22:33 GMT
> March 17, 2008
> Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> They should add (high sugar diet) to the no-no list too.

They have their heads in their collective a.ses re: fats. Some promote
inflamation, some reduce inflation, some have no effect, etc.
Typically symplistic/retarded dietary drivel. Even different kinds of
saturated fats have very differing effects.
Jamffer - 21 Mar 2008 22:47 GMT
Fats are ok, it's (excessive) fats that are not so good.
The key is moderation.

On Mar 21, 1:27?pm, "Jamffer" <jamf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> March 17, 2008
> Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> They should add (high sugar diet) to the no-no list too.

They have their heads in their collective a.ses re: fats. Some promote
inflamation, some reduce inflation, some have no effect, etc.
Typically symplistic/retarded dietary drivel. Even different kinds of
saturated fats have very differing effects.
TX-012 - 22 Mar 2008 01:16 GMT
> Fats are ok, it's (excessive) fats that are not so good.
> The key is moderation.

Moderation is rarely wrong as a guideline---in anything---but where in
this article does it discuss which fats reduce markers of inflamation,
and that most people do not eat enough of these anyway, and that those
with chronic inflamatory conditions would benefit from eating MORE of
these than the average Joe?
TX-012 - 22 Mar 2008 01:27 GMT
> > Fats are ok, it's (excessive) fats that are not so good.
> > The key is moderation.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> with chronic inflamatory conditions would benefit from eating MORE of
> these than the average Joe?

For example, who consumes enough _sesamin_?
Jamffer - 22 Mar 2008 10:20 GMT
I don't know what sesamin is.  Cite the study you are referring to.

> On Mar 21, 2:45?pm, "Jamffer" <jamf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> with chronic inflamatory conditions would benefit from eating MORE of
> these than the average Joe?

For example, who consumes enough _sesamin_?
TX-012 - 23 Mar 2008 04:33 GMT
> I don't know what sesamin is.  Cite the study you are referring to.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> For example, who consumes enough _sesamin_?

Sesamin is a hepatoprotective lignan found in sesame oil.

Google

sesamin liver
sesamin hepatoprotective
sesamin inflamation
sesamin hepatitis

Sesamin is not primarily marketed for these properties; but rather
it's ability to help users lose fat and improve body composition.

Here is a writeup on one of the first sesamin products by Caleb Stone
AKA Par Deus of Avant Labs:

SesaThin Write Up by Par Deus - Avant Labs

Sesamin was pointed out to me by a colleague about 3 years ago, when I
basically did not even know what PPAR-alpha was. But I still wanted it
badly, from that point on because of its remarkable effects on
lipogenic and oxidative gene expression in rat livers and a study or
two on body composition in rats - it basically appeared to be a super
fish oil that would taste good and would not easily spoil.
Unfortunately, it was not commercially available at that time. And
unavailable it remained, until less than a year ago. In that time,
quite a bit more research was done on sesamin and quite a bit more
research was done on pathways that sesamin modulates, and it had
become clear that sesamin could be much more than an improvement on
fish oil. Unfortunately, raw materials were still quite pricey. As a
brand-name supplement, such a product would probably run $100-$150+
per month. Meaning that, for most uses and most consumers, it just
would not have been cost-effective. Fortunately, after quite a bit of
searching, and quite a bit of work, we have teamed with a supplier and
drastically cut raw material costs, so we are able to bring this
wonder substance to you, for less than $30 per month, without
compromising on dosing. So, with that aside, let's talk about why's
and hows of this compound and its amazing potential for health and
body composition.

Super Fish-Oil

The first study that struck me with sesamin was one showing it to be
about 10-fold more potent than fish oil, in positively modulating
expression of a battery of genes involved in storage and metabolism of
triglycerides. The obvious target for mediation is PPAR-alpha, as it
is known to affect most of these. Another known mechanism of fish oil
is via alteration of phospholipid membrane structure and properties -
specifically, it promotes an increase in the unsaturation index of
fatty acids, which is associated with increased lipolysis, increased
leanness, and better insulin sensitivity.

And Beyond

But, Sesamin also had some positive effects on gene expression not
shared by fish-oils. A possible target for this is PPAR-gamma
antagonism, though it increases gamma-tocephorol levels, and that is a
PPAR-gamma AGONIST. Spook has also mentioned sesamin as an agonist,
but I have never seen this, and it is in contrast to the way it
mediates gene expression.

Let's look at all of this in more detail. Make note of all of the
overlap and tie ins between PPAR, Lipogenic genes, fatty acid levels,
insulin resistance, and stress. You may also notice how much it all
ties in with previous writings by myself and Spook on leptin.

What does it do:

Sesamin has a host of benefits. First it boosts hepatic (liver) and
muscular mitochondria oxidation of fatty acids as well as boosting
peroxisome fatty acid oxidation. Particularly episesamin is extremely
potent boosting these two actions buy 2.1 hold and 5.1 hold in rats.
When coupled with a diet rich in omega-3 fats (they seem to work
synergistically) episesamin boosted them by 12.2 and 20.1
respectively. Now that's freaking impressive. It does this buy causing
the DNA transcription of CPT (carnitine palmitoyl transferase) which
is the rate limiting quantity in beta oxidation of fats in skeletal
muscle and liver cells. So the gist is you burn more fat plain and
simple.

It also protects the liver and kidneys. It prevents fatty liver from
chronic ethanol ingestion. Finally it keeps vitamin E levels high
either by recycling it or buy preventing its oxidation entirely (no
one knows which for sure).

One last great affect of ingestion of these compounds is along with a
boost in lipid metabolism it simultaneously lowers lipogenic enzymes
in the liver, reducing the amount of fats that are esterfied for
storage in adipose tissue. Rats fed a diet consisting of 0.4% sesmamin
had four times less lipogenic enzymes in there liver cells.

Why am I so excited about this stuff?

First and foremost a doubling of mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation it
and of itself is fantastic. But a 20- fold increase in peroxisomal
beta oxidation is even more impressive as it does not have the same
self-regulating mechanisms that mitochondrial oxidation does. You burn
too much fat and citrate buildup will shut down further fat oxidation.
But not so with peroxisomal oxidation. So the bottom line is if there
are lipids in your blood stream it will oxidize them. So coupled with
the standard fat loss stuff that causes adipose to release its
payload. Sesamin will cause more fat to be burned and less of it to
get reintegrated into adipose tissue at the next meal.

So basically sesamin can be used during maintenance or bulking to stay
lean and make sure you burn more fat at rest. And, Sesamin can also be
used during a diet to burn a lot more fat.

So to summarize the benefits:

  1. Huge increase in fat burning.
  2. Burn more fat when dieting and when FED.
  3. Protects the liver from necrosis.
  4. Protects the kidneys from renal failure.
  5. Improves cholesterol profile dramatically.
  6. Protects or elevates vitamin E in the blood stream.
Waterspider - 23 Mar 2008 07:38 GMT
"TX-012" <withbacon@aol.com> wrote
..........Sesamin is a hepatoprotective lignan found in sesame oil.
> Google
> sesamin liver
> sesamin hepatoprotective
> sesamin inflamation
> sesamin hepatitis

I did. I learned that a patent was issued for Sesamin in 1993 and ever since
it's been marketed as a "miracle" weight-loss and bodybuilding supplement. I
did not find even one reliable (or even unreliable) scientific study on the
effects of Sesamin therapy for liver disease or anything else.
Cactus Jammies - 23 Mar 2008 20:57 GMT
This might be a good start, Spidey.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5762935.html
In Asia, sesame oil is the vector for ingesting sesamin.

Here is an abstract: http://www.mupnet.com/JOCM%202(5)%20199.htm

and another:
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/google/abstract.asp?AcNo=20033210735

and another report from

http://www.alcoholism-cer.com/pt/re/alcoholism/abstract.00000374-200511001-00007
.htm;jsessionid=HmzpPsNTvb8L6XCLtmCmQm74mZWySvPjjJCj8nGnjJXRPzvDC30X!1675702673!
181195628!8091!-1


or in a more easily manageable form:

http://tinyurl.com/2nw5yg

I googled: >research sesamin< and skipped past the obvious commercial sites.
There are more scientific ones out there.

cactus jammies -----------------------

> "TX-012" <withbacon@aol.com> wrote
> ..........Sesamin is a hepatoprotective lignan found in sesame oil.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> scientific study on the effects of Sesamin therapy for liver disease or
> anything else.
Jamffer - 23 Mar 2008 21:21 GMT
> This might be a good start, Spidey.
> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5762935.html
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> and another report from

http://www.alcoholism-cer.com/pt/re/alcoholism/abstract.00000374-200511001-00007
.htm;jsessionid=HmzpPsNTvb8L6XCLtmCmQm74mZWySvPjjJCj8nGnjJXRPzvDC30X!1675702673!
181195628!8091!-1


> or in a more easily manageable form:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> > scientific study on the effects of Sesamin therapy for liver disease or
> > anything else.

Any human studies?
Jamffer
Cactus Jammies - 23 Mar 2008 22:04 GMT
Sesamin

> Any human studies?
> Jamffer

you know how to use Google?  try >research human sesamin<

anyone can do this.  hope you don't mind Japanese and Taiwanese resources

cactus jammies ----------
TX-012 - 23 Mar 2008 22:19 GMT
> "TX-012" <withba...@aol.com> wrote
> ..........Sesamin is a hepatoprotective lignan found in sesame oil.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> did not find even one reliable (or even unreliable) scientific study on the
> effects of Sesamin therapy for liver disease or anything else.

There are studies out there, although sesamin has only recently come
to the attention of either the scientific community or the fitness
community; if you're looking for extremely specific stuff like "Effect
of sesamin supplementation on progression of liver fibrosis in
untreated patients with hepatitis c" I don't believe those studies
have yet been done. FWIW, I don't believe I've seen it advertised as a
"miracle" weight loss product, although it unquestionably is
beneficial for improving body composition (I've used sesamin, and I've
read many, many reports from others who have used sesamin; two good
places to read accounts are www.mindandmuscle.net and http://www.avantlabs.com/forum/
) and is advertised for this purpose...In any event. my point was not
to urge people to take sesamin or to consume more sesame seed oil, but
rather to point out that some fats--or constituents of fats--are very
liver friendly, and instead of simply urging people with hep c to "cut
down on fats" it would be better to urge them to "cut down on _bad_
fats" and "increase consumption of _good_ fats"...blah blah blah...

PS---my personal interest in sesamin RIGHT NOW, while I'm on tx,
actually has nothing to do with my liver, but rather my desire to
reduce the inflammatory effects of the drugs I'm on and so reduce
joint pain, muscle pain, etc.
Cactus Jammies - 23 Mar 2008 22:35 GMT
> PS---my personal interest in sesamin RIGHT NOW, while I'm on tx,
> actually has nothing to do with my liver, but rather my desire to
> reduce the inflammatory effects of the drugs I'm on and so reduce
> joint pain, muscle pain, etc.

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/turmeric

I have been taking turmeric for about eight or nine months.  My
hepatitis-induced arthritis, or fibromyalgia or whatever you want to call it
in my extremities has gone away.  Who knows why.  I do not know how it is
'supposed to' interact with treatment drugs.
Google is a great tool.

cactus jammies
geno 1b post-tx relapser, waiting for something that wont drive me crazy
Jamffer - 23 Mar 2008 22:52 GMT
> > PS---my personal interest in sesamin RIGHT NOW, while I'm on tx,
> > actually has nothing to do with my liver, but rather my desire to
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> cactus jammies
>  geno 1b post-tx relapser, waiting for something that wont drive me crazy

It's difficult to find anything unbiased in any case.  Even some of the drug
companies try to adjust the results when they are dealing with hundreds of
millions of cash.
There is a ton of natural substances to research and little commercial
willingness to invest tons of money required.
I think that the vitamin companies should pool their resources.
Jamffer (starting the dragon war on March 25th) Thanks for the info.
TX-012 - 23 Mar 2008 22:52 GMT
On Mar 23, 1:35 pm, "Cactus Jammies"
<cactusjamm...@retinal.circus.orb> wrote:

> > PS---my personal interest in sesamin RIGHT NOW, while I'm on tx,
> > actually has nothing to do with my liver, but rather my desire to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 'supposed to' interact with treatment drugs.
> Google is a great tool.

Thanks---will check that out.
Jamffer - 22 Mar 2008 10:20 GMT
So, enjoy.

On Mar 21, 2:45?pm, "Jamffer" <jamf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Fats are ok, it's (excessive) fats that are not so good.
> The key is moderation.

Moderation is rarely wrong as a guideline---in anything---but where in
this article does it discuss which fats reduce markers of inflamation,
and that most people do not eat enough of these anyway, and that those
with chronic inflamatory conditions would benefit from eating MORE of
these than the average Joe?
Terry - 22 Mar 2008 03:29 GMT
>March 17, 2008
>Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>They should add (high sugar diet) to the no-no list too.

I would have guessed
alcohol
alcohol
and alcohol
Jamffer - 22 Mar 2008 10:20 GMT
> >March 17, 2008
> >Abandoning 3 Vices to Live Long with HCV
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> alcohol
> and alcohol

If I have a sustained response, maybe then I'll start back up a vice or two.
Cheers.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.