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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / May 2007Hepatitis and iron reduction therapy
"effective cure rate in the area of 75-80%" http://www.myanmar.gov.mm/Article/Article2004/July/july31.html Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk You may well love us all Tom (I assume that's the answer to the question at the end of each post) and I accept that a high iron level is bad, particularly for hep c treatment but why do you pester us continually with your posts on iron being the root of all evil? Sure iron overload is bad just as many other factors may cause or indicate trouble. It's good to know that excess iron can inhibit the SVR process but do you really believe the statement "The iron from the meat we eat builds to toxic levels in the body and causes all disease"? It might make you feel good to have simplified Medicine down to a single issue but it doesn't really help anyone except those with too much iron. Even then I do not believe that iron is the cause of all disease. Life is just a lot more complicated than that. Study Biochemistry or Genetics and you'll soon see what I mean. If Jesus was a vegetarian then he wasn't too concerned about what others ate. Was not one of his purported miracles to feed the masses with 'loaves and fishes"? Anyone who hands out free fish burgers can't be too much of a vegetarian crank. "Man is a herbivore". It's pretty clear that Man, in his Neolithic days and after was an omnivore. Look at his dentition, his hunting tools, the bones found at his campsites, our love of meat today. Look at the history of hunting and farming. Of course we can eat veges too and we certainly should and if you want to do so to the exclusion of all meat you're free to do so. But don't try to pretend that yours is the 'natural' way. It's not. Even chimps, our nearest relatives, occasionally eat meat. Oh but you probably don't believe in evolution either I suppose so so much for that argument. Real herbivores do not like meat. Try feeding a nice juicy steak to a cow or a sheep. You should perhaps limit your case to something like "Some countries today eat too much meat". You might well be able to make a case for that. Cheers Jack > "effective cure rate in the area of 75-80%" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>On May 22, 2:23 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: You may well love us all Tom (I assume that's the answer to the question at the end of each post) << Not a good start .. being .. wrong ... >>and I accept that a high iron level is bad, particularly for hep c treatment but why do you pester us continually with your posts on iron being the root of all evil?<< Have I placed a disease which wasn't .. specifically .. SHOWN to BE .. iron .. related .. ? >>Sure iron overload is bad just as many other factors may cause or indicate trouble.<< Ok .. you got your two cents in .. "iron is a .. consequence OF disease and NOT the .. cause .. " .. Is that about what you .. said .. ? >> It's good to know that excess iron can inhibit the SVR process but do you really believe the statement "The iron from the meat we eat builds to toxic levels in the body and causes all disease"? << Show me a disease which iron ISN'T .. involved .. I've been saying THAT for years .. How come nobody can come up with .. one .. ? How come YOU don't place one ... BUT do take it upon yourself to .. what .. ? .. pratle on .. ? >>It might make you feel good to have simplified Medicine down to a single issue but it doesn't really help anyone except those with too much iron. << Yep .. that would be those .. sick people .. these groups are all about .. ? >>Even then I do not believe that iron is the cause of all disease. << Of course you use .. science .. in all your .. work .. >>Life is just a lot more complicated than that. Study Biochemistry or Genetics and you'll soon see what I mean.<< Study and logic to people like you .. are .. mutually .. **exclusive** .. >> If Jesus was a vegetarian then he wasn't too concerned about what others ate. Was not one of his purported miracles to feed the masses with 'loaves and fishes"? Anyone who hands out free fish burgers can't be too much of a vegetarian crank.<< I seee.. science ISN'T .. your ONLY .. field of .. expertise .. >>"Man is a herbivore". It's pretty clear that Man, in his Neolithic days and after was an omnivore. Look at his dentition, his hunting tools, the bones found at his campsites, our love of meat today. Look at the history of hunting and farming. << Soooo .. YOUR .. 'take' .. is .. "if one chooses to DO something.. then it is a NATURAL .. part of them .. " .. Just like .. skull fkg .. I suppose .. Eh .. >>Of course we can eat veges too and we certainly should and if you want to do so to the exclusion of all meat you're free to do so. But don't try to pretend that yours is the 'natural' way. It's not. Even chimps, our nearest relatives, occasionally eat meat. << Sooo .. again .. your 'argument' .. being .. compared to an animal that CHOOSES to KILL anothers children in order to coerce her into breeding due TO the fact he has killed her .. children .. ? Contrary to YOU .. I believe killing anothers children .. is **wrong** .. no matter HOW long it has been since I've been .. laid .. >>You should perhaps limit your case to something like "Some countries today eat too much meat". You might well be able to make a case for that.<< I believe I've .. made my case .. already .. It is a matter of .. **disproving** my .. case .. And frankly .. your ability to DO that .. has been found .. wanting .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>>On May 22, 2:23 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > You may well love us all Tom (I assume that's the answer to the > question at > the end of each post) << > > Not a good start .. being .. wrong ... Oh, well what is the answer? Our Mums? >>>and I accept that a high iron level is bad, > particularly for hep c treatment but why do you pester us continually [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Have I placed a disease which wasn't .. specifically .. SHOWN to BE .. > iron .. related .. ? As you think all diseases are iron related, you clearly must think that the answer is no. >>>Sure iron overload is bad > just as many other factors may cause or indicate trouble.<< [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is that about what you .. said .. ? No I don't think it is. Iron deficiency is clearly a cause for iron deficient anaemia for example. It is relevant to some other diseases too. Sometimes the iron level may be the cause of disease, sometimes the result, sometimes there's no relation. >>> It's good to know > that excess iron can inhibit the SVR process but do you really [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Show me a disease which iron ISN'T .. involved .. Well, I have lowish iron levels and yet I've caught many diseases, including Hep C. I suppose the syringe that gave it to me was made of iron. Does that count? > I've been saying THAT for years .. > > How come nobody can come up with .. one .. ? > > How come YOU don't place one ... BUT do take it upon yourself to .. > what .. ? .. pratle on .. ? I prattle on? As for suggesting a disease where iron is not 'involved', I suggest that no one has ever done that because they don't take the question seriously. Or if they have suggested one then you've probably just rejected it without evidence. I'll try my luck. What about the common cold? (or just about any other disease). Please explain the role iron has in causing the cold. Please don't place a link to a loony one-topic website. As I said (more prattle coming up) my iron levels are low to normal yet I've still caught lots of things. Are you going to say that iron at any level causes disease? If that's true then there's not much we can do. >>>It might make you feel good to have simplified > Medicine down to a single issue but it doesn't really help anyone [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yep .. that would be those .. sick people .. these groups are all > about .. ? Well they certainly should have received the message by now. >>>Even then I do not believe that iron is the cause > of all disease. << > > Of course you use .. science .. in all your .. work .. Why do you ... say that ... Tom? Is Science bad or can only scientists comment? >>>Life is just a lot more complicated than that. Study > Biochemistry or Genetics and you'll soon see what I mean.<< > > Study and logic to people like you .. are .. mutually .. > **exclusive** .. So what are people like me better at? Study or logic? . >>> If Jesus was a vegetarian then he wasn't too concerned about what others > ate. Was not one of his purported miracles to feed the masses with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I seee.. science ISN'T .. your ONLY .. field of .. expertise .. Did I ever say it was? >>>"Man is a herbivore". It's pretty clear that Man, in his Neolithic days >>>and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Eh .. Just as we know the smile is innate because all people from all different cultures use it to indicate the same thing, similarly, if you look at our history and all modern societies that I know of, you'll find people rather keen on meat. This indicates to me that it is innate. Just as you can't make a real herbivore like meat or a real carnivore eat lettuce. However, being an omnivore you can certainly choose not to eat meat. It's not that we choose to eat meat so much as that some people choose NOT to. And good luck to them. But of course it's natural whether we like it or not. Nature red in tooth and claw Tom. >>>Of course we can eat veges too and we certainly should > and if you want to do so to the exclusion of all meat you're free to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that CHOOSES to KILL anothers children in order to coerce her into > breeding due TO the fact he has killed her .. children .. ? Your thinking of lions. A new male to the pride will often kill all the cubs. But I don't think they eat them. At least that's not their primary aim which is, as you say, to bring the female to oestrus and replace the pride with their own offspring. But do lions choose to do this or is it innate? Innate I reckon. As for chimps (which is our nearest relative). They eat the meat of the Colobus monkey mainly. The males go out in a group and hunt them. Then they tear them apart with their bare hands and eat the meat red and dripping. Some males will then share some of their meat with a female on heat for sexual favours. See, they just love meat. > Contrary to YOU .. I believe killing anothers children .. is > **wrong** .. no matter HOW long it has been since I've been .. laid .. Ha ha. Yes every time I want to get laid, I kill someone's kids. Works every time. >>>You should perhaps limit your case to something like "Some > countries today eat too much meat". You might well be able to make a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And frankly .. your ability to DO that .. has been found .. wanting .. I disagree. Your case (iron causes all disease) is far from proven. It's true I haven't read all your posts. There's just so much info on iron that I need. > Who loves ya. My dog, I'm pretty sure about that. > Tom > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Top post: Sort of... like... talking with SOMEONE really, REALLY high on mushrooms... EXCEPT for the nasty, insulting bits. Oh well. THIS is... a GOOD reminder to... all of us... what a fuckwit ole Tom really IS. Too bad... his... prattling and ranting turns folks off from learning... more... about the REAL dangers... of iron overload. But, at least... the great HERBIVORE... in the sky... loves YOU!!! >>>>On May 22, 2:23 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: >> You may well love us all Tom (I assume that's the answer to the [quoted text clipped - 180 lines] >> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >> http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Of course, silly me. Living in France I'm sort of isolated from that stuff. It occurred to me last night actually but when I wrote I was genuinely perplexed. Thanks for the confirmation WS. Jack > Top post: > [quoted text clipped - 189 lines] >>> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >>> http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Oh, well what is the answer? Our Mums?<< Didn't the Bible tell you .. ? Oh .. yeah .. your research is .. ? .. wanting .. ? > > Have I placed a disease which wasn't .. specifically .. SHOWN to BE .. iron .. related .. ?<< >> As you think all diseases are iron related, you clearly must think that the answer is no.<< Well your .. reason .. seems to be .. intact .. Now it is a matter of .. logic .. >> Well, I have lowish iron levels and yet I've caught many diseases, including Hep C. << Since you are not a .. young vegetarian woman .. I'll assume your iron levels are that of a man .. a meat eating .. man .. which are shown to be double those of vegetarian .. men .. >>suppose the syringe that gave it to me was made of iron. Does that count?<< Only if you allow it to be accessed by a .. bacteria .. or .. virus .. which utilizes the iron for growth and a-d-h-e-s-i-o-n .. >> I prattle on? As for suggesting a disease where iron is not 'involved', I suggest that no one has ever done that because they don't take the question seriously. << Again .. prattle .. >>Or if they have suggested one then you've probably just rejected it without evidence. << Prattle .. ? >>I'll try my luck. What about the common cold? (or just about any other disease). Please explain the role iron has in causing the cold. << In the human body there is a natural antibiotic .. lactoferrin . It is present in all the slime in our bodies. It is the bodies PRIME defense in the fight of infection. Lactoferrin acts by removing iron from the invader. When this lactoferrin becomes 'saturated' with iron it becomes useless and is unable to function . Antiviral effects of plasma and milk proteins: lactoferrin shows potent activity against both human immunodeficiency virus and human cytomegalovirus replication in vitro. Harmsen MC, Swart PJ, de Bethune MP, Pauwels R, De Clercq E, The TH, Meijer DK Native and chemically derivatized proteins purified from serum and milk were assayed in vitro to assess their inhibiting capacity on the cytopathic effect of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-1 and human cytomegalovirus (HCMV) on MT4 cells and fibroblasts, respectively. Only native and conformationally intact lactoferrin from bovine or human milk, colostrum, or serum could completely block HCMV infection (IC50 = 35-100 micrograms/mL). Moreover, native lactoferrin also inhibited the HIV-1-induced cytopathic effect (IC50 = 40 micrograms/mL). When negatively charged groups were added to lactoferrin by succinylation, there was a 4-fold stronger antiviral effect on HIV-1, but the antiviral potency for HCMV infection was mostly decreased. Lactoferrin likely exerts its effect at the level of virus adsorption or penetration (or both), because after HCMV penetrated fibroblasts, the ongoing infection could not be further inhibited. -------------------------------------------- >>Please don't place a link to a loony one-topic website. As I said (more prattle coming up) my iron levels are low to normal yet I've still caught lots of things. Are you going to say that iron at any level causes disease? If that's true then there's not much we can do.<< Oh .. ? When you come onto a thread which SPECIFICALLY shows .. cure rate .. YOU .. say .. "nothing we can do .. " .. ? That would be .. as the article .. STATES .. "iron reduction therapy" .. >> Your thinking of lions.<< Chimps .. you said .. chimps .. didn't .. ya .. ? >> Ha ha. Yes every time I want to get laid, I kill someone's kids. Works every time.<< Works for .. chimps .. YOUR .. 'reference' .. TO .. man. >> I disagree. Your case (iron causes all disease) is far from proven. It's true I haven't read all your posts. There's just so much info on iron that I need.<< Well with one third of the world with hepatitis .. and the rest with diabetes malaria , tuberculosis or .. diabetes .. then since iron reduction has been shown to be .. efficacious IN .. "all of the above" .. then .. pretty much .. MOST .. of disease has NOW been .. accounted .. for .. NOW for the few .. relatively .. with cancer .. and such .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk [...] >Well with one third of the world with hepatitis .. and the rest with >diabetes malaria , tuberculosis or .. diabetes .. then since iron >reduction has been shown to be .. efficacious IN .. "all of the >above" .. then .. pretty much .. MOST .. of disease has NOW been .. >accounted .. for .. And with that 'graph you've gone and shown yourself to be a simple charlatan... Cheers anyway /greyhackles >>On May 22, 5:11 pm, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: shown yourself to be a simple charlatan...<< >>Cheers anyway<< Well that's awful .. white .. of ya .. call a guy a charlatan .. and THEN .. wish him well .. On medical lists .. ? You have MUCH more .. tolerance .. than .. I .. Whether wishing .. charlatans .. well .. is .. supportive .. is a matter of contention .. I guess .. Personally .. charlatans on medical lists .. should be .. **squished** .. but that is .. my .. take on it .. Yours .. ? .. "have at it .. " .. ? Heh .. heh .. You would NOT be the one .. watching MY back .. if I could / would have ANY say in it .. at .. all .. You couldn't be .. **trusted** .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>On May 22, 5:11 pm, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: shown yourself to be a simple charlatan...<< >>Cheers anyway<< Well that's awful .. white .. of ya .. call a guy a charlatan .. and THEN .. wish him well .. On medical lists .. ? You have MUCH more .. tolerance .. than .. I .. Whether wishing .. charlatans .. well .. is .. supportive .. is a matter of contention .. I guess .. Personally .. charlatans on medical lists .. should be .. **squished** .. but that is .. my .. take on it .. Yours .. ? .. "have at it .. " .. ? Heh .. heh .. You would NOT be the one .. watching MY back .. if I could / would have ANY say in it .. at .. all .. You couldn't be .. **trusted** .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>>On May 22, 5:11 pm, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: shown yourself to be a simple >charlatan...<< [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Who loves ya. >Tom Loves me :-) Loves me not :-( Just because you're a loony on a mission is no reason for me to be less than my usual pleasant self. So Cheers - whether you like it or not. /greyhackles (ahahahahahahahaha :-) Well, there ya go. Ole Tom doesn't only not trust you, but he wants to squish you. Good thing he loves ya. >>>>On May 22, 5:11 pm, greyhackles <greyhack...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: >>>>shown yourself to be a simple [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > /greyhackles (ahahahahahahahaha :-) > Well that's awful .. white .. of ya .. Not only is he a moron, but he's a racist as well. Then he goes on to speak of "tolerance." Just when you think you've seen all sides of him, he shows another ugly one. Brindal One last go at this and then I stop. Promise. > Oh, well what is the answer? Our Mums?<< > > Didn't the Bible tell you .. ? Yes I believe I've worked it out. Had to go back to Sunday school days. "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so". But if this is so Tom and you believe it then surely my first answer was right as well. At least that's what Jesus asks us to do. > Oh .. yeah .. your research is .. ? .. wanting .. ? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > levels are that of a man .. a meat eating .. man .. which are shown to > be double those of vegetarian .. men .. If vegetarian men have half of my iron levels, they must all be anemic. >>>suppose the syringe that gave it to me was made of iron. Does that > count?<< > > Only if you allow it to be accessed by a .. bacteria .. or .. virus .. > which utilizes the iron for growth and a-d-h-e-s-i-o-n .. Viruses grow on iron? I don't think so. They need a host cell. And adhesion hey. They stick to the needle. Now there's a revolutionary idea. >>> I prattle on? As for suggesting a disease where iron is not 'involved', >>> I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Again .. prattle .. Worth considering though Tom... >>>Or if they have suggested one then you've probably just rejected > it without evidence. << [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In the human body there is a natural antibiotic .. lactoferrin . > It is present in all the slime in our bodies. Slime? Is that the correct medical term? > It is the bodies PRIME defense in the fight of infection. > Lactoferrin acts by removing iron from the invader. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Harmsen MC, Swart PJ, de Bethune MP, Pauwels R, De Clercq E, The TH, > Meijer DK You say that iron causes disease but lactoferrin does not prove that. It shows that a normal level of iron is required to allow lactoferrin to do its stuff. The immune system is highly complex and has multifarious ways of warding off attack. No one is saying that iron doesn't come into the equation. You can have too much or too little iron as with everything else. > Native and chemically derivatized proteins purified from serum and > milk were [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > That would be .. as the article .. STATES .. "iron reduction > therapy" .. Too little iron is bad too Tom. >>> Your thinking of lions.<< > > Chimps .. you said .. chimps .. didn't .. ya .. ? Yes I said chimps. We're talking about meat eating are we not? If a dominant chimp murders a baby it's not for the food. It's for the same reason as lions. It's irrelevant to our discussion. My point of showing meat eating in chimps was just to show that meat eating in our lineage may go back quite a way. But of course I admit that because chimps eat meat doesn't mean that we naturally do. Only that looking deep into our past (all the homonids at least) our ancestors appear to have eaten meat. I take a leap then back to our common ancester with chimps and since meat eating occurs in both branches after the split, it's quite possible that our common ancester also ate meat. It may not have though. There is no evidence. It's just part of the big picture. >>> Ha ha. Yes every time I want to get laid, I kill someone's kids. Works >>> every > time.<< > > Works for .. chimps .. YOUR .. 'reference' .. TO .. man. Actually, what really works for a chimp (except the dominant male who does what he likes) is taking care of the babies. This confers immunity from attack and makes the females look kindly upon him. But, as I explained above, chimps are not my reference for Man. The best evidence for me that we naturally eat meat is that most people like it. Not everyone of course. Some people don't like meat and some don't like veges. I personally eat a bit of meat but not a lot. It takes all kinds. But you won't find many societies that don't eat meat. Why is it that most people like meat? Evolution has provided us with all our innate drives in order to make us successful at reproducing. We have desires for air, food and water, sex etc etc which we like to satisfy. It makes us feel good to do so. If we didn't benefit from eating meat, we simply wouldn't like it. Just as no one likes to eat rotten meat (because it would make us sick) some animals like hyenas and dogs thrive on it. They love the taste and the smell of it. This is obvious to anyone who has a dog. But dogs don't like bananas because they don't have the digestive system to deal with fruit and so evolution has programmed them to hate bananas (something I find incredible). Being omnivores we don't HAVE to eat meat. We can choose not to eat it just as priests can choose not to have sex (ostensibly at least). This argument holds by the way whether you believe in evolution or not. Whether it be by God, an intelligent designer or by evolution you have to wonder why we have a taste for meat. Reminds me of a joke. If God wanted us to be vegetarians then why did he make animals out of meat? >>> I disagree. Your case (iron causes all disease) is far from proven. It's > true I haven't read all your posts. There's just so much info on iron [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > above" .. then .. pretty much .. MOST .. of disease has NOW been .. > accounted .. for .. Your logic is only valid (perhaps) for those with too much iron. > NOW for the few .. relatively .. with cancer .. and such .. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Jack; > You may well love us all Tom (I assume that's the answer to the question at > the end of each post) and I accept that a high iron level is bad, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of all disease. Life is just a lot more complicated than that. Study > Biochemistry or Genetics and you'll soon see what I mean. Don't confuse Tom the Troll with reason, logic, or science. He has no real medical knowledge, only the clips he finds about iron, usually from PubMed. It's also useless to argue theology with him, as he claims to have found a secret code in the Bible. To put it kindly, he is borderline psychotic. If you don't agree with him and say so. he will SHOUT at you and spout obscenities with the vowels removed. I highly doubt he could study biochemistry or genetics. He lacks the intelligence for such an undertaking. He has been plaguing the Usenet groups for over a dozen years with his discombobulated misinformation. I don't think your articulate replies to him will change a thing. Brindal > Jack; > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Brindal I was naive, I see that now. Kinda fun though. I'm always surprised with what 'people like Tom' will come out with next. "If you don't agree with him and say so. he will SHOUT at you and spout obscenities with the vowels removed." Yes I noticed that. It seems to me that an obscenity is in the thought not the spelling. If you want to swear might as well just come out with the word, vowels and all. Maybe Tom's replying from work and is afraid that the in-house morality police will catch him?? Cheers Jack >>On May 23, 4:12 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: I was naive, I see that now. Kinda fun though. I'm always surprised with what 'people like Tom' will come out with next.<< Actually .. pal .. you see the .. thread .. ? DID you .. add TO .. the thread .. ? Did you contribute .. TO .. the thread ..? No .. you asked a few questions which were answered rather .. nicely .. And NOW .. you have something .. personal .. to .. say .. ? There is a word that .. fits .. here .. Everyone here .. knows the .. word .. You being new to these groups .. I believe .. don't know the .. word .. The descriptive word .. "of your kind" .. is .. pussy .. Heh .. heh .. Now fk off until you .. **learn** .. something .. TO .. contribute .. Heh .. heh .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > "If you don't agree with him and say so. he will SHOUT at you and spout > obscenities with the vowels removed." [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >>>On May 23, 4:12 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: I was >>>naive, I see that now. Kinda fun though. I'm always surprised with [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - Yes I think I added to the thread and I was trying to improve the quality of the newsgroup by getting you to stop ranting. But I see now how it goes with you. Anything you don't agree with or don't understand is prattle. Eventually you forget about the arguments completely and resort to straight out insults (vowels removed not withstanding). Well, I wanted to see what you'd say next and frankly I must tell you that I'm disappointed in you Tom. I thought you'd have something more amusing to say. . It is curious the way you remove the vowels from swear words. Why do you do that? I thought my guess was reasonable and gave you the benefit of the doubt. But it must be something else. Also why do you place ellipses . between . your .words? You seem to do it more when you get hot and bothered. Are you trying to represent your laboured breathing? Jack On May 24, 3:08 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:But I see now how it goes with you. Anything you don't agree with or don't understand is prattle.<< Actually .. pal .. you see .. I .. started .. the thread .. YOU .. asked questions .. The .. questions were asked by .. YOU .. If there is any .. lack of intelligence IN this .. thread .. You've admitted it .. BY .. ? .. asking questions .. Now you probably don't .. see .. HOW .. asking questions .. PROVES .. 'lack of intelligence' .. but that .. again .. is the whole circle of life .. dealy .. stupidity .. does not necessarily .. connotate .. intelligence .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 24, 3:08 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:But I > see now how it goes with [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Well you haven't disappointed me this time Tom. You've written almost complete gibberish. Most amusing. Sifting through the debris it seems you're saying that when you make a post, no one may ask you any questions. You expect us all to make endless pronouncements (the sillier the better apparently) without any interaction or questioning from other people. I can see why you don't like science. That's pretty much its antithesis. You appear to say that if someone asks a question then this proves that they are stupid and therefore not worthy of a response. Just for the record, my original questions (those I made when I had the audacity to barge into your post) were rhetorical. They didn't really require a response. You know what rhetorical means don't ya Tom? Well that was one. My first question to you was "why do you pester us continually with your posts on iron being the root of all evil?" That was another. They don't require a response. Think of it as a polite way of saying ' why don't you just fck off'. I particularly enjoyed this bit of illogic. "stupidity .. does not necessarily .. connotate .. intelligence .." Assuming you mean 'connote' (there's actually no such word as connotate) what do you actually mean? Given that stupidity is the opposite of intelligence, you seem to be saying that a lack of intelligence does not necessarily connote intelligence! Well of course not but what's with the 'necessarily'? Being opposites one cannot imply the other. See, that's why I have to ask questions. I have an irrepressible need to eliminate bullshit and clarify gibberish. You still haven't explained all those ellipses. And what the hell does 'dealy' mean? Jack >>>>On May 23, 4:12 am, "Jack Black" <jack.bl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: I was >>>>naive, I see that now. Kinda fun though. I'm always surprised with [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>> the >>> in-house morality police will catch him?? from work??? now that's a laugh ...Tom has been on the Canadian dole for decades....what he DOES that he calls "work" is to fire up his search engine,,enter in two works (one of which is iron or iron related)...then cut and paste...if anyone challenges "him"...than the rants start' you will also notice that once he has been "busted"...he will quietly leave a thread....only to reappear in another a few days later we have a word for Tom's ilk......pathetic >>> Cheers >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Jack >>On May 24, 8:56 am, "Hawki" <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:<< Typical medical professional .. bullsht .. Can't come up with anymore stupid .. comments .. like .. "you cannot be anemic and have polycythemia at the same time!" .. ? Or these wonderful comments from over the time you've been here .. in your medical professional .. guise .. ? Your strikes are .. "Give aminoglycosides antibiotics to anyone you want .." .. when in fact they have deafened half of China. "Benzene is NOT a chemical which is studied in Multiple Chemical Sensitivity .." When in fact it is the chemical they use in research for that very reason. And the classic .. " aspirin isn't used to treat headaches , migraines and pain in general .." When in fact .. it .. is ..EVERYONE but .. you .. knows it .. Now what part of .. no .. cred .. don't you understand .. ? Oh .. yeah .. ALL of it .. Just like your chosen .. profession .. Now go give some more iron to .. those anemic pregnant .. women ... Oh yeah .. you retired .. on your .. pension .. Nice little pension I .. bet .. For killing .. kids .. Heh .. heh .. Fk .. off .. cow .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > from work??? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>>> >>>> Jack I believe I met this guy in Austin Texas....East side of town. I know what he looks like and where he lives. To his credit, he is kind to homeless cats. dort > "effective cure rate in the area of 75-80%" > > http://www.myanmar.gov.mm/Article/Article2004/July/july31.html > > Who loves ya. > Tom That's from '04, Tom. Don't you think we'd have heard more about it by now if it was a viable option? --especially for those of us who are out of options. >> On May 22, 2:51 pm, "Thip" <m...@privacy.net> wrote: That's from '04, Tom. Don't you think we'd have heard more about it by now if it was a viable option? --especially for those of us who are out of options.<< Well it seems the Japanese are following up on it and getting some good results. Hepatogastroenterology. 2005 Mar-Apr;52(62):563-6. Additional effect of low iron diet on iron reduction therapy by phlebotomy for chronic hepatitis C. Kimura F, Hayashi H, Yano M, Yoshioka K, Matsumura T, Fukuda T, Shigeto N, Yamahara S, Koushi F, Mishima Y, Yoshino T, Tanimoto M, Kimura I. Department of Internal Medicine, Tamano-Municipal Hospital, Tamano City, Okayama, Japan. f-kim...@po1.oninet.ne.jp BACKGROUND/AIMS: Iron-induced oxidative stress plays an important role in the pathogenesis of chronic hepatitis C. Both phlebotomy for removing body iron stores and low iron diet for minimizing portal iron supply to the liver have been shown to improve serum transaminase levels in patients with the disease. However, the cooperative effects of phlebotomy and low iron diet have not yet been elucidated in detail. METHODOLOGY: A pilot study was undertaken to investigate whether a low iron diet could improve the efficacy of phlebotomy in iron reduction therapy. Of 21 patients diagnosed with chronic hepatitis C, 10 patients were treated with phlebotomy alone (group A) while 11 patients were treated with a low iron plus phlebotomy (group B). Phlebotomy was repeated biweekly until serum ferritin levels reached 10 ng/mL in both A and B groups. In addition, a low iron diet (iron intake of 8 mg/day or less) was recommended for group B, followed by estimation of iron intake from daily diet records. RESULTS: Serum alanine aminotransferase levels were significantly improved from 106+/-30 to 68+/-22 IU/L (p<0.005, paired t-test) in group A and from 100+/-33 to 46+/-10 IU/L (p<0.002, paired t-test) in group B. The enzyme levels after treatment were significantly higher in group A (p<0.02, non-paired t-test), which showed a higher upward distribution of the enzyme activity. The estimated dietary iron intake in group B was reduced from 17.6+/-6.1 to 8.2+/-3.7 mg/day. CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that phlebotomy alone does not completely remove iron-induced oxidative stress and a low iron diet induces an additional effect in iron reduction therapy for chronic hepatitis C. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&... Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > >> On May 22, 2:51 pm, "Thip" <m...@privacy.net> wrote: That's from '04, Tom. Don't you think we'd have heard more about it by now > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Now .. it would be of benefit to those in the community to .. calculate .. whether this diet 8.2+/-3.7 mg/day can be **easily** achieved with the present iron fortification .. program. If it is .. not .. achievable **easily** .. then a lawsuit would / could / should be .. implemented .. DUE TO .. the **consequences** OF .. not being easily able to protect oneself FROM .. death .. due to intervention of the government in ones' food supply. I .. think it is in the .. Constitution .. The estimated dietary iron intake in group B was reduced from 17.6+/-6.1 to 8.2+/-3.7 mg/day. CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that phlebotomy alone does not completely remove iron-induced oxidative stress and a low iron diet induces an additional effect in iron reduction therapy for chronic hepatitis C. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&... Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >> >> On May 22, 2:51 pm, "Thip" <m...@privacy.net> wrote: That's from '04, >> >> Tom. Don't you think we'd have heard more about it by now [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > > I .. think it is in the .. Constitution .. yikes...you are going off the bend Tom.....where in the US Constitution??? just curious > The estimated dietary iron intake in group B was reduced from > 17.6+/-6.1 to [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>> On May 22, 2:51 pm, "Thip" <m...@privacy.net> wrote: That's from '04, >>> Tom. Don't you think we'd have heard more about it by now [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > patients with the disease. However, the cooperative effects of > phlebotomy and low iron diet have not yet been elucidated in detail. ie...this is not a cure.....by any stretch of anyone's imagination... at best...at very best....the liver enzymes might be...might be...reduced a tad...ie...lifespan MIGHT be increased a tad/// not a cure by any means... > METHODOLOGY: > A pilot study was undertaken to investigate whether a low iron diet [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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