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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / April 2007

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Liver ultrasound

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Jeff - 27 Apr 2007 03:02 GMT
Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor ordered one and
the results came up clean. He said they found a small benign polyp on my
gall bladder but that was nothing to worry about. I think they were mainly
looking for cancer though (in the liver). I also have colitis. Can they tell
anything related to HCV from an ultrasound?

I need to interrogate my doctor some more on this and any additional info
would help.

tx
Jeff
greyhackles - 27 Apr 2007 03:18 GMT
>Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor ordered one and
>the results came up clean. He said they found a small benign polyp on my
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>tx
>Jeff

I had an ultrasound as part of my pre-therapy work-up, about two weeks before
my liver biopsy. They were likely looking for frank abnormalities of the liver
and spleen - size, shapes, density, any unexpected masses, etc, along with
finding a good biopsy site. I don't think they can do much more than that.

Other than freaking myself out by watching the screen while the tech was
probing, it was no biggie. The tech kept saying she couldn't believe I had any
liver problems as everything she could see was "perfect". Which pretty much
tells you they're looking for something obviously fubar, because my biopsy
grade was F2-F3...

Cheers

/greyhackles
anonymousone - 27 Apr 2007 03:21 GMT
> >Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor ordered one and
> >the results came up clean. He said they found a small benign polyp on my
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> /greyhackles

I had one. The liver biopsy later showed grade 3,stage 3. The
ultrasound showed nothing.
Jeff - 27 Apr 2007 04:00 GMT
That's kind of what I was thinking. It's more of a superficial, if you will,
diagnosis.

Can you give me more information on the grades and stages? I am woefully
ignorant on that.

tx
Jeff

>> >Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor ordered one
>> >and
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> I had one. The liver biopsy later showed grade 3,stage 3. The
> ultrasound showed nothing.
greyhackles - 27 Apr 2007 04:10 GMT
>>> >Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor ordered one
>>> >and the results came up clean. He said they found a small benign polyp on my
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>tx
>Jeff

This is the basic Metavir fibrosis scoring system:

0 = no scarring
1 = minimal scarring
2 = scarring has occurred and extends outside the areas in the liver that
contains blood vessels
3=bridging fibrosis is spreading and connecting to other areas that contain
fibrosis
4=cirrhosis or advanced scarring of the liver

Cheers

/greyhackles
kjoh - 28 Apr 2007 00:04 GMT
Hi Jeff.  Two years ago my biopsy showed 0-1 fibrosis and grade 2
inflammation.   I had an ultrasound then and again recently.  A small
hemangioma (blood bubble) disappeared over the two years and in the recent
scan they found a small area (+/-1cm) of calcification and a small cyst. No
other abnormalities.  My internist/infectious disease doc says both are
common and neither is of much concern.  The calcification may be the
remnants of damage from the biopsy and the cyst is just a cyst - it is
apparently not a precancerous sort of thing -  nor is it a cirrhotic node.
So no worries arose from the utrasound.  My understanding is that
ultrasound images are useful for more-or-less "architectural" or
structural observations like cirrhosis, misc nodes and cysts,
calcifications and cancerous misbehaviour.  The images can also be useful
in characterising steatosis. I think they also show gross abnormalities in
the large blood vessels. Ultrasounds are not good for characterising
inflammation or fibrosis.  Hoever the procedure is far less expensive than
biopises and MRIs and might give helpful information (though not conclusive
in terms of prognosis)  for docs and patients weighing the various factors
of advanced liver disease.  I pasted a burb below.

Btw I have been interested in Oriental views of health and disease for a
long time and am especially fascinated by the philosophical and practical
gyrations that occur at the interface of East and West medicine.  I don't
chat about it much here because I weary of attacks from chronic skeptics.
Perhaps you will send me an email and we can exchange info and links?  

kjohyayhoo at  yahoo dot  com

Best wishes
Kathy
geno 1b relapser

Clinical Care Options  
Noninvasive Techniques: Radiology   

Computerized tomography, magnetic resonance imaging, and ultrasonography
produce detailed cross-sectional images of the liver and its surrounding
structures. Today's techniques, however, do not provide sufficient
resolution to detect earlier stages of fibrosis prior to the development
of frank cirrhosis with portal hypertension, which can be determined by
identification of large varices, an enlarged caudate lobe, or
splenomegaly.
                           
Several simple modifications of ultrasonography can assist the anatomic
diagnosis of cirrhosis. The ratio of transverse caudate lobe width to
transverse right lobe width distinguishes cirrhotic from noncirrhotic
livers with a sensitivity of 84%, a specificity of 100%, and an accuracy
of 94%.[22] Approximately one dozen other sonographic and Doppler
techniques can detect cirrhosis with a reported accuracy of 82% to 88%.
Anatomical constraints and interobserver variability, however, remain
limiting factors. The clinical role of radiology is to confirm cirrhosis
in patients who show signs of advanced liver disease. These techniques may
also help support a diagnosis of cirrhosis in patients for whom biopsy
results are indeterminate or do not reflect clinical presentation.
Jeff - 28 Apr 2007 05:45 GMT
Thanks Kathy, and thanks to everyone else as well.

I know what you mean about being on the other side of the alternative
therapies vs. standard medical practice dialogs. I've been a member of my
other health issue group, Crohns - Colitis, for about 7 years and I was
often out-numbered in many a long debate. But I came upon my beliefs as a
slow process which didn't happen over night. And my interest only increased
only after experiencing some successes which led me to spend a few years
studying some of them. Still I am a skeptic at heart and don't believe
everything I hear or read about. And there is a lot of bunk out there too.

Anyway it would be nice to chat. I'll try to send a note sometime soon. I'm
not always that good at emailing. You see by day I'm actually an email
administrator so I get tons of it. By the time I get home and maybe cruise
my groups a little I'm pretty well shot.

take care, and be well
Jeff

> Hi Jeff.  Two years ago my biopsy showed 0-1 fibrosis and grade 2
> inflammation.   I had an ultrasound then and again recently.  A small
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> also help support a diagnosis of cirrhosis in patients for whom biopsy
> results are indeterminate or do not reflect clinical presentation.
Normin - 27 Apr 2007 04:16 GMT
AFAIK, the ultrasound looks for 'other' problems with your liver,
mainly cancer.  You do know we are at a higher risk for liver
cancer than folks who haven't had HepC, right?

I just got a note from my BCLD's office, telling me I need a
liver ultrasound or MRI every 6 months to check for any
abnormalities now that I'm done with tx. (and so far I am still
testing negative for hepc, and all bloodwork is 'normal')

Sara

> Anyone ever had an ultrasound for their liver. My GP doctor
> ordered one and the results came up clean. He said they found a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> tx
> Jeff
 
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