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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / March 2007

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12 week SVR

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Guy - 29 Mar 2007 19:41 GMT
Hi all,

I will be hitting 8 weeks Friday and you guys have been telling me
that most doctors
check the SVR at 12 and make a decision to continue or not at that
point.
I asked my Dr and he said he does it at 24. Almost doesn't seem
"fair" ( I hate to use
that word but for lack of a better one ) that I should have to endure
an extra 12 weeks
for nothing.

Is this something relatively new ? I think in another thread someone
mentioned it is.

Any suggestions as to how I can approach the Dr about this ? Have an
appointment
one week after 4th blood check  ( 1 before treatment, one at the 4
week point, one at 8
and one at 12 weeks ) and was thinking of approaching him about it.

If I used the wrong terminology or I am not conveying this correctly
please forgive me as the brain fog has me walking around in circles
lately :-)

Peace, Out.

G

BTW, Got Riba ? :-)
Guy - 29 Mar 2007 20:23 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> BTW, Got Riba ? :-)

Actually, it was Paul that posted this.

"Oh yeah.  Definitely a 12 week test required.  At least if you are
not
responding it will save you from unnecessary punishment.  I thought a
12 week VL test was standard procedure by now but it sounds like some
doctors haven't got around to it yet. "
greyhackles - 29 Mar 2007 23:47 GMT
>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>12 week VL test was standard procedure by now but it sounds like some
>doctors haven't got around to it yet. "

Yup, and I posted essentially the same thing earlier. From the last few years
hanging out here, coupled with the guidelines that Schering-Plough provides
physicians, I'd have to say not having a VL check at 12 weeks is unusual -
perhaps even very unusual.

Need ammo?

Here is something that both the HCV patient and doctors/RNs/PAs/etc should
read. I can't stress enough how much valuable information is in this document.
The document is currently version 6.0c, and it was originated and is regularly
updated by doctors at the California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco.

http://www.cpmc.org/advanced/liver/physicians/hcv-pathway.pdf

In the appendix on page 28 there is a Treatment Protocol Schedule that shows
the week 12 VL check of which we've been speaking. This is a "make it or end
it" gate for most people on therapy: if your viral load hasn't dropped by at
least "2 log" (which is essentially 99%) the only point in continuing therapy
would be for maintenance purposes, as statistically the patient is not going
to achieve SVR.

Again, regardless of this particular question at hand, *everyone* that either
has HCV, is treating someone with HCV, or is living with someone with HCV
going through treatment, needs to read this document...

More ammo:

From http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/479959_7

"Viral response can be assessed at 12 weeks of therapy, and therapy should be
continued in those who achieve a greater than 2log reduction in viral
load.[18] Patients who fail to achieve this end point have a less than 2%
chance of achieving an SVR with continued therapy."

[18]Davis GL, Wong JB, McHutchison JG, et al. Early virologic response to
treatment with peginterferon alfa-2b plus ribavirin in patients with chronic
hepatitis C. Hepatology. 2003;38:645-652.

You will find the above study referenced throughout the HCV community.

From http://www.hta.ac.uk/execsumm/summ1021.htm

"No patients who failed to achieve a 2-log drop in viral load at 12 weeks
achieved an SVR." [reference to Davis et al]

From
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1
5288482&dopt=Abstract


"The lack of a 2-log drop in HCV-RNA levels after 12 weeks of treatment showed
a 100% predictive value of lack of sustained response."

This was a separate study of HIV/HCV coinfected cohort to see if increasing
interferon dosing and adding Amantadine would improve SVR rates.

From the International Liver Transplantation Society
http://www.ilts.org/newsletter_issue10_article7.htm

"Patients who fail to respond at 12 weeks of treatment with at least a 2 log
drop in HCV-RNA should be dropped from treatment."

Try Googling "HCV anti-viral therapy 2-log drop 12 weeks". One could spend -
forever - documenting where care has converged at the current standard. Your
doc either knows something we don't know, or he's out standing alone in a very
big field.

How discuss this with your liver doc is the only real question. Not knowing
your situation in detail, or how volatile your doc is, I can't prescribe a
risk-free approach. You'll have to figure that one out on your own...

Cheers

/greyhackles
Cactus Jammies - 30 Mar 2007 01:01 GMT
Note, Guy...  an SVR is NOT a two log drop.  You need a PCR to find out if
you have a two log drop.
You may also wind up with a negative PCR, which says that the virus is
undetectable.  That is still NOT an SVR.  An SVR means (almost) that you are
'cured'.  You don' get that test til after you are done the treatment, after
48 weeks, then wait usually six months for the PCR which will determine if
you have an SVR.  The PCR is the test, the SVR is the best news you can get
more than a year from right now, dood.

cactus jammies ===========

>>> Hi all,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 124 lines]
>
> /greyhackles
Guy - 30 Mar 2007 07:18 GMT
On Mar 29, 5:01 pm, "Cactus Jammies"
<cactusjamm...@imitation.univ.net> wrote:
> Note, Guy...  an SVR is NOT a two log drop.  You need a PCR to find out if
> you have a two log drop.
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Greyhackles and Cactus Jammies. You guys are awsome, Greyhackles
thanks for the ammo, I'll
run it by the dr next month. Thanks again all of you for all your help
and information.
Russian - 30 Mar 2007 07:28 GMT
> I will be hitting 8 weeks Friday and you guys have been telling me
> that most doctors
> check the SVR at 12 and make a decision to continue or not at that
> point.
> I asked my Dr and he said he does it at 24.

At 12 weeks, I was in the hospital lab waiting to get blood drawn and I
commented how I was awaiting the PCR results.  The deskperson told me my
order didn't include PCR.

I asked them to call the doc and correct it.  Turns out the doc had not
intended to order it, but I said I was willing to take the chance of
insurance not covering it, so he faxed down revised orders.

........

I wish I could say that was the happy ending, but then they lost my test
results for two weeks and I only finally got the numbers when I directly
contacted the outside lab the hospital outsources PCR to.

Finally it had came to a good end, though - my reported virus count was
in the low end of the "undectable" range.
 
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