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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / January 2007

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my test results

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mandillith@yahoo.com - 24 Dec 2006 20:00 GMT
Here is a copy of the results from Oct 27.  The hospital redid my liver
enzymes and said they are lower now, but are still double what they
should be.  I hope someone can make sense of all this and help explain
a few things.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRK
GjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
Cactus Jammies - 25 Dec 2006 04:32 GMT
Mande,
 Have you been diagnosed with active Hep C yet?  I hope this not a dumb
question.  The spike in your LFTs (liver function tests in enzymes AST and
ALT) may be due to other factors than Hep C.  You mention that your Hep C
labs will come back soon.  Is that what you're waiting for, a screen to see
if you have actually been in contact with the virus?  I have seen lots worse
elevated liver enzymes on this group, by the way.  Oh, what prompted you to
have this medical done in the first place, I wonder.

Thank you for sharing your blood work results.

Cactus Jammies ===========
> Here is a copy of the results from Oct 27.  The hospital redid my liver
> enzymes and said they are lower now, but are still double what they
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRK
> GjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
mandillith@yahoo.com - 25 Dec 2006 08:34 GMT
Not a dumb question.  I haven't been diagnosed with Hep C.  The jury is
still out on the results.  I have been talking back and forth with a
friend of mine who is a nurse and she pointed out the WBC, which
wouldn't you know my ignorant mind wouldn't realize that means White
Blood Cell, is not high enough for Hep.  So I feel very good about
that, but she said to still wait for the results.  I have been
researching a lot and finding out that my levels aren't as bad as many,
but they are still high.  Thank you Cactus Jammies, I appreciate that.

And as to why I got the labs done in the first place.  I was diagnosed
with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) three years ago, and to make
sure that I don't inherit the diabetes from both sides of my family, I
have to have labs done about every 6 to 12 months.  My mother died
three years ago from a P.E. and DVT and my father is slowly dieing from
Multiple Myeloma, so I have to get tests done all the time to make sure
I don't inherit anything and that I stay on a healthy track.
> Mande,
>   Have you been diagnosed with active Hep C yet?  I hope this not a dumb
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRK
> > GjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
greyhackles - 25 Dec 2006 04:39 GMT
>Here is a copy of the results from Oct 27.  The hospital redid my liver
>enzymes and said they are lower now, but are still double what they
>should be.  I hope someone can make sense of all this and help explain
>a few things.
>
>http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRKGjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0

Let's cover the flagged entries first:

LDH measures the concentration of the enzyme Lactic Acid Dehydrogenase in
blood plasma. LDH tests are most often used to evaluate the presense of tissue
damage, covering the major organs and skeletal muscle tissues. A heart attack,
kidney damage, significant liver damage, or a deep bruising muscle injury
would all be expected to *raise* LDH.

Your LDH reading is marginally below the "normal" range for your lab. That
should be a *good* sign, though it could be the result of the drugs you are
taking.

The next three tests (AST, ALT and GGT) are also associated with enzymes that
can vary in concentration in the presense of injury (including inflammation)
to major organs and muscle tissues. ALT, in particular, is of particular
interest to folks with liver disease, but someone who has experience cardiac
event(s) or a crushing muscle injury could read above the normal ranges for
these tests.

Your AST is at the high end of the normal range, and your ALT is obviously
elevated along with your GGT reading. But before you get overly worried, as an
ALT of 80 might seem very high, but folks that are HCV+ routinely see *much*
higher ALT - like two or four times as high as yours (case in point:
pre-treatment, my ALT hit 166).

Otherwise....

The lipid tests are barely interesting, you're just a scoche above the
"normal" ranges for total cholesterol, due to a moderately high Low Density
Lipoprotein reading (your HDL looks good, however). Nothing that dietary
discretion and a bit more exercise couldn't rectify.

And there's nothing in the CBC/Differential tests that looks interesting, they
all look horribly normal :-)  The Platelet count indicates you're not burning
up plates to repair internal damage - folks with toasty livers usually sport
much lower platelet counts. And your whites, reds, hemoglobin - they all look
very good through all those tests, both counts, size, types of WBCs - it all
looks very good indeed.

And your thyroid test (TSH) is almost dead-nuts in the middle of normal range.

And looking back at the first set of tests, your Albumin looks great, BUN
looks great, Bilirubin looks great, Iron looks great...

So...I'd quess, you're actually in pretty good shape, aside from a touch of
high cholesterol and some indication of inflammation/injury somewhere. If you
really are infected with Hep C, it couldn't have been for very long, yes?

Cheers

/greyhackles
mandillith@yahoo.com - 25 Dec 2006 08:45 GMT
Horribly normal, huh?  LOL...  I take it everyone here is suffering
from hep C and I must seem like some kind of jack a.s showing off what
must look like healthy labs to those who don't have the same results.
I am so sorry and I hope I didn't offend anyone.  I guess, just with
little information we have on my mother's death and knowing that both
my brother and I were born after my father was sprayed with Agent
Orange twice, I get a little freaked out when it comes to my health.
You wouldn't tell by looking at me, that's for sure.  I am about 75 lbs
over weight.
I think this is enough of a scare to keep me from getting anymore
tattoo's for a while, if ever again.  How long does it take hep to show
up after a tattoo?  My latest one was April of last year and my last
piercing was August of last year.  I would think if there was any kind
of danger from either, my results would be much higher.
You all, right now are my saviors.  I swear, this was becoming the
worst Christmas ever, but with your advice here and that of my nurse
friend's, I think the worst thing I have to overcome is my weight and,
like you said, a change in my diet and some exercise will probably
change things.  Thank you all so much and have a Merry Christmas.

> >Here is a copy of the results from Oct 27.  The hospital redid my liver
> >enzymes and said they are lower now, but are still double what they
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> /greyhackles
Paul - 25 Dec 2006 09:40 GMT
On 25 Dec 2006 00:45:00 -0800, "mandillith@yahoo.com"
<mandillith@yahoo.com>, in message ID
<1167036300.908173.88490@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, in the
newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>Horribly normal, huh?  LOL...  I take it everyone here is suffering
>from hep C and I must seem like some kind of jack a.s showing off what
>must look like healthy labs to those who don't have the same results.
>I am so sorry and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Your spreadsheet would not open on my computer.  I did have hep-c but
the tx worked for me a couple of years or so back.

My own bloodwork before tx was normal too.  There were only two
results outside normal range but they were so marginal that it was
inconsequential.  My ALT was 42 (normal is 0 - 41 in my part of the
world). There was another one as well that was just slightly over
(can't recall which).
However, I most definitely had hep-c.  Also, I most definitely had a
fair bit of liver damage - as revealed by biopsy.  I believe that my
biopsy results would have translated to somewhere around stage 2 grade
3.  Not about to keel over but certainly worth doing something about.

If you rely on blood tests alone, livers can often appear to function
pretty well until they are in a bad way.
mandillith@yahoo.com - 26 Dec 2006 09:18 GMT
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRKGjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
Try this again.  It opens up in Acrobat.
> On 25 Dec 2006 00:45:00 -0800, "mandillith@yahoo.com"
> <mandillith@yahoo.com>, in message ID
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> If you rely on blood tests alone, livers can often appear to function
> pretty well until they are in a bad way.
Paul - 26 Dec 2006 14:59 GMT
On 26 Dec 2006 01:18:17 -0800, "mandillith@yahoo.com"
<mandillith@yahoo.com>, in message ID
<1167124697.623619.172120@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>, in the
newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRKGjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
>Try this again.  It opens up in Acrobat.

Yes.  That one works thanks.
mawtuan - 26 Dec 2006 18:16 GMT
Both Meformin and Spironolactone are to be used with caution (or not at all)
if the patient has any type of liver disease.  Also, spironolactone is not
recommended if you are taking certain medications to control your blood
sugar.  I'm not sure if metformin is one of them, but certainly your doctor
should be monitoring this.
One of the side affects of spironolactone is hepatotoxicity.  Which, of
course, causes an increase in liver enzymes detected in a blood sample.
In rare cases, metformin can cause lactic acidosis (with a corresponding
increase in LDH).  However, since your kidney function tests (BUN,
Creatinine) are normal this is unlikely.  LDH may also be increased in some
folks following extreme weight-loss programs, or intermittant dieting.
Most of your lab results are completely normal.  The few elevated labs are
not really cause for panic, but should be investigated.
If it turns out you do have hepatitis, the abnormal enzymes are to be
expected.  The GGT may also be indicative of some extra-hepatic issues.
I'm not an MD, but have been a clinical laboratory director for 30+ years.
Given the limited info you've provided here's a few suggestions:
1. Review all of this with your MD and press for a comprehensive review.
Don't let him/her dismiss you by telling you your results are "..only
slightly abnormal.."
2. Stay away from extreme dieting or fad weight-loss programs.
3.  Make sure you do not have chronic exposure to chemical vapors from
volatiles, solvents, cleaning agents, etc..
4.  Lastly, some homeopathic and/or natural supplements can cause mild
hepatic toxicity.  These should be ruled out as well.
Good luck.  Let us know what you find out.
Thom

{formerly known as Firestar}

> On 26 Dec 2006 01:18:17 -0800, "mandillith@yahoo.com"
> <mandillith@yahoo.com>, in message ID
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Yes.  That one works thanks.
mandillith@yahoo.com - 27 Dec 2006 08:49 GMT
Hmmm...you bring up some interesting conversation topics with the
doctor, that's for sure.  Okay, so hopefully some of this will help.
I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS), or known as the bearded
woman disease (yuck!!!), and because of it I now have high blood
pressure.   For those who don't know what PCOS is, it means my hormones
are out of whack, causing me to not be 'normal', medically speaking,
and have a higher testoserone level than estrogen.  What's weird about
that, is apparently my testoserone levels are not higher than my
strogen, but doesn't explain why I get hair in places where they
shouldn't be.
As far as my research has gone, and all the books I have found on the
subject, PCOS is the starter in women for many things.  It causes
several different diseases, like endometriosis, cardiovascular disease,
diabetes and a few other things.  So to keep me from getting the
diabetes, I am supposed to take metformin.  These lab results are from
me not taking my medicine.  I haven't taken my meds for months.  I got
very tired of them, but because of this whole scare, I'm going to take
my health more seriously.
The PCOS is making me pre-diabetic, and because of the weight problems
caused by it, I am becoming insulin resistant.  The doctors said the
metformin would help me with the insulin and weight.
The Spironolactone is, of course, for my blood pressure, but the doctor
said it would also work on the excessive hair growth.  I was on
Hydrochlorothiazide for about a year before I moved and went to a new
doctor who put me on the Spironolactone.
So if Spironolactone isn't to be mixed with blood sugar meds, will it
cause a problem with the Metformin?  As far as I know, I have no liver
disease, just high enzymes.  I swear, if it's not one thing, it's
another...lol.  You all have been great to me.  Thank you.
> Both Meformin and Spironolactone are to be used with caution (or not at all)
> if the patient has any type of liver disease.  Also, spironolactone is not
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> >
> > Yes.  That one works thanks.
mandillith@yahoo.com - 27 Dec 2006 09:08 GMT
Okay, Good News:
                 Test results came back:  (drum roll please) I don't
have hep C
                 I see another P.A. Friday
         Bad News:
                We still don't know what's wrong with me.
I talked to my partner from work who said he had a similiar problem.
He said the elevated liver enzymes could be from stress and
dehydration.
     Stress in my life:
          Bad work environment
          Both my father and my grandfather are dieing from cancer
          The usual, bills, money to survive and a roof to keep over
my head
Does this sound about right?  I knew stress coulb be our worse enemy,
but like this?  I guess it shouldn't be surprising since stress can
cause heartattacks.  So here's a few questions for you Thom:
         In your line of work, do you deal with meds that help with
PCOS, and are there any that won't raise my liver enzymes?
         And is there anything to take that helps lower liver enzymes
even when the liver is not yet diseased or in any other way damaged?
Thanks in advance.
> Both Meformin and Spironolactone are to be used with caution (or not at all)
> if the patient has any type of liver disease.  Also, spironolactone is not
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> >
> > Yes.  That one works thanks.
greyhackles - 27 Dec 2006 16:24 GMT
>Okay, Good News:
> Test results came back:  (drum roll please) I don't have hep C

YAY!

Sorry about the rest of it all, but at least you don't have a dragon on your
plate :-)

Cheers

/greyhackles
mandillith@yahoo.com - 30 Dec 2006 09:43 GMT
Yah, but I went to see the P.A. today, and all she could ask is why the
other P.A. didn't bother to redo my GGT when she had my ALT redone.  So
without any actual answers today, it was back to getting my blood
taken.  What fun.  So now I am waiting until next week to hear back and
find out what the final word is.  Some kind of liver disease or just my
weight.  I hate being a pin cushion.  I was one growing up, I don't
feel like being one all over again.

> >Okay, Good News:
> > Test results came back:  (drum roll please) I don't have hep C
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> /greyhackles
mawtuan - 31 Dec 2006 05:17 GMT
mandilith,
I'm out of town, using a borrowed laptop with a ridiculously slow dial-up.
Consequently, remote access to my work computer is not possible.  I have
dealt with a few PCOS patients, but not recently.  I'll have to do a little
digging to provide you with any useful info.  I shall do that when I get
back to the lab - a couple of days after the New Year.
Very glad to hear you don't have Hep C.
thom

Signature

{formerly known as Firestar}

> Okay, Good News:
>                  Test results came back:  (drum roll please) I don't
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>> >
>> > Yes.  That one works thanks.
mandillith@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2006 10:51 GMT
Thank you.  Yah, the P.A. tried to convince me that there is still a
slim chance that I have it because the test only checks for things that
have happened within the last 6 months.  I explained to her that I
haven't been exposed to anything within the last 14 months that could
cause a problem.  So it's back to the drawing board to find out what
could be the problem.  Thanks for your help.  I appreciate it.
Mande
> mandilith,
> I'm out of town, using a borrowed laptop with a ridiculously slow dial-up.
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> >> >
> >> > Yes.  That one works thanks.
greyhackles - 31 Dec 2006 16:27 GMT
>Thank you.  Yah, the P.A. tried to convince me that there is still a
>slim chance that I have it because the test only checks for things that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>could be the problem.  Thanks for your help.  I appreciate it.
>Mande

Jesus, that PA sounds like a moron and a half.

Either you have HCV antibodies or you don't. If you had been exposed any time
(ANY TIME) earlier than say a few weeks before, you'd have antibodies, period.

Cheers

/greyhackles
Jeff - 27 Dec 2006 04:58 GMT
Paul - I may have replied directly to you so please pardon my mistake. I'll
post again to this thread.
--------------------------
Hi - I'm new here, unfortunately. I've had ulcerative colitis for about 7 or
8 years and have posted a lot in a support group for that disease.

About 3 years ago I had some tests done and my doctor reported I have Hep C.
I've been in denial since then but now I realize I've got to get serious
about it. So having experience in the other ng I'm involved with
(alt.support.crohns-colitis) it didn't take me long to find this group.

So my first question is to Paul

Your statement -

> I did have hep-c but the tx worked for me a couple of years or so back.

What TX are you speaking of? (I'm assuming tx means treatment)

thanks in advance

Jeff N

> On 25 Dec 2006 00:45:00 -0800, "mandillith@yahoo.com"
> <mandillith@yahoo.com>, in message ID
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> If you rely on blood tests alone, livers can often appear to function
> pretty well until they are in a bad way.
Paul - 27 Dec 2006 06:38 GMT
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 23:58:41 -0500, "Jeff" <jn425@comcast.net>, in
message ID <5_udnWOYtv4eYAzYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com>, in the
newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>Paul - I may have replied directly to you so please pardon my mistake. I'll
>post again to this thread.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Jeff N

Tx does indeed mean treatment and yes, I did get your post via email
too.  It's OK.
The tx I had was pegylated interferon (one injection a week) and two
lots of ribavirin pills per day.  I've no idea if these drugs would be
any help with your non hep-c issues.  You would need to have
discussion with your hep doctor about this because the
interferon/ribavirin regime can cause all manner of side effects and
some pre-existing conditions (such as certain heart problems) can make
doing the tx more risky.  I've no idea whether your other illness
would be OK with interferon/ribavirin or not.
There are different types of HCV.  Most people have to do 48 weeks of
tx.  I got lucky and only had to do 24 because the type that I had was
deemed easier to get rid of.
Jeff - 27 Dec 2006 16:48 GMT
Thanks for the info. Although I didn't mean to ask how my other "issues"
would be affected by the tx for HCV. Just wanted to know what treatment you
had that worked for that.

Next question: how was your general state of health during the treatment?
Mainly, were you able to work and/or what other aspects of your life were
noticably affected?

I appreciate yours, and anyone else who wishes to, answer.

Thanks again
Jeff N

> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 23:58:41 -0500, "Jeff" <jn425@comcast.net>, in
> message ID <5_udnWOYtv4eYAzYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d@comcast.com>, in the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> tx.  I got lucky and only had to do 24 because the type that I had was
> deemed easier to get rid of.
Paul - 27 Dec 2006 23:14 GMT
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:48:05 -0500, "Jeff" <jn425@comcast.net>, in
message ID <f-ednUE4vMpaPg_YnZ2dnUVZ_tKjnZ2d@comcast.com>, in the
newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>Next question: how was your general state of health during the treatment?
>Mainly, were you able to work and/or what other aspects of your life were
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Thanks again
>Jeff N

My general health on tx and or ability/inability to work will not give
you a reliable guide to your own situation as each person is affected
differently on tx.
However, since you've asked :-) , I found the first few weeks pretty
easy (apart from the after effects of the first injection) and it had
no impact on my ability to work.  Then I started to experience
increased fatigue, mood swings (read swearing at people and generally
being abusive over trivia), some depressive symptoms (though I would
not say full blown depression), very confused thinking, a need to
sleep more (which I succeeded at :-)  ), and bad guts - sometimes with
little warning of needing a crap.  These side effects came and went
and I didn't usually experience them all at the same time.  The most
persistent side effect was extreme thirst.
Once the drugs really kicked in (this took some weeks), I did need to
reduce my workload by some margin (I am self-employed and a manual
worker).

So pretty much every area of life was affected in some way.  I was
more fortunate than most because I use an excellent recovery network
(from addiction) and many of those people had hep-c or had treated it
already so helped me through it.  I did manage to have some kind of
social life so long as I restricted it to people who had some
understanding of what was going on for me and also understood that I
might need to cancel a social engagement at short notice.

I live on my own.  I had friends who were happy for me to turn up
unannounced at their houses and spend time there.  No explanations
needed.  In fact the only people who were unwelcoming while I had
hep-c were the ones I am related to.  Apart from a couple of them,
they can go f.ck themselves.

Also bear in mind that I "only" had to do a 24 week tx.  I'm told the
the side effects can grind you down even more on a 48 week tx.  Just
glad I didn't need to find out about that.
Jeff - 28 Dec 2006 03:07 GMT
Thanks so much for your response. Glad you got through it relatively
unscathed. I know from my other problems that people react differently but I
like to get a sampling of different people's experience, then I can at least
have "some" idea of what to expect.

Take care and have a great New Years.

tx
Jeff N
> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:48:05 -0500, "Jeff" <jn425@comcast.net>, in
> message ID <f-ednUE4vMpaPg_YnZ2dnUVZ_tKjnZ2d@comcast.com>, in the
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> the side effects can grind you down even more on a 48 week tx.  Just
> glad I didn't need to find out about that.
greyhackles - 26 Dec 2006 04:13 GMT
HCV antibodies appear within a month if not sooner from initial infection.
Symptoms, if any, appear around the same point. The acute phase is considered
over at the 6 month point.

I'm not sure there actually is any correlation between WBC counts and HCV
infection. Perhaps during the acute phase, but after that point I'm pretty
sure WBCs return to the same range as "normals". My WBC counts were in the
normal range every time they were checked; I was HCV+ for over 30 years.

An HCV antibody test could have been done in short order - hours, not days.
An actual HCV viral assay could take a week from draw to reviewed results.
Once you get the word back on the first test, let us know.

Cheers

/greyhackles

>Horribly normal, huh?  LOL...  I take it everyone here is suffering
>from hep C and I must seem like some kind of jack a.s showing off what
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>>
>> /greyhackles
mandillith@yahoo.com - 26 Dec 2006 09:14 GMT
I definitely will.  You all have been so great.  Thanks again.  Hope
everyone had a wonderful christmas and have a good New Year.
> HCV antibodies appear within a month if not sooner from initial infection.
> Symptoms, if any, appear around the same point. The acute phase is considered
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
> >>
> >> /greyhackles
mandillith@yahoo.com - 06 Jan 2007 19:13 GMT
Ok, so now the PA has decided that I have to go see a GI doctor.  There
is nothing she can do for me and said she can't figure out what the
problem is.  So now I am off to find a GI doctor that accepts my ins.
What fun.
> Here is a copy of the results from Oct 27.  The hospital redid my liver
> enzymes and said they are lower now, but are still double what they
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pgm4SrsXx63VRK
> GjtW6hhHQ&output=pdf&gid=0
 
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