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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / December 2006

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Chinese Herbalists

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anonymousone - 13 Dec 2006 23:13 GMT
A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
responses here:

" I also talked to some chinese medicine people in santa monica where
all they do is
help people with herbs and mushrooms and they told me that the hep c
virus can be kept in check with there stuff. They said it doesn't cure
people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."
Cactus Jammies - 13 Dec 2006 23:19 GMT
details?  I am interested in the same thing.  prolonging liver health such
as it is until next tx.

cactus jammies
>A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
> responses here:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> virus can be kept in check with there stuff. They said it doesn't cure
> people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."
anonymousone - 13 Dec 2006 23:54 GMT
> details?  I am interested in the same thing.  prolonging liver health such
> as it is until next tx.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > virus can be kept in check with there stuff. They said it doesn't cure
> > people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."

I cant give you any details yet, and Im not convinced that what they
are claiming is true. There is a Dr. Marshall on the radio that says
Reishi is 75%+ effective (whatever that means) against all forms of Hep
C. However, I cant find any credible scientific data to support their
claims.
Cactus Jammies - 14 Dec 2006 00:36 GMT
> I cant give you any details yet, and Im not convinced that what they
> are claiming is true. There is a Dr. Marshall on the radio that says
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>anon1

that would almost certain be up to interpretation, eh?  maybe it 'just'
enhances cellular regeneration and promotes more rapid reduction of
fibrosis.  Something more easily acceptable as near the truth rather than
making claims as being effective against the actual virus?  too much
information from Dr Marshall (authoritative sounding name?) is baffle gab, I
think.

thanks

Cactus Jammies

>> details?  I am interested in the same thing.  prolonging liver health
>> such
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> > virus can be kept in check with there stuff. They said it doesn't cure
>> > people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."
Terry - 14 Dec 2006 02:31 GMT
>> details?  I am interested in the same thing.  prolonging liver health such
>> as it is until next tx.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>are claiming is true. There is a Dr. Marshall on the radio that says
>Reishi is 75%+ effective (whatever that means) against all forms of Hep

>C. However, I cant find any credible scientific data to support their
>claims.

You can't?  Boy that surprises me.  :)
kjoh - 14 Dec 2006 01:12 GMT
Hi.  OK right upfront: traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) offers no cure
for Hep C and there is no valid  research to show that TCM affects viral
load.  Some of the herbs, especially the blends containing multiple
ingredients, have had nasty effects on people.  My personal experience:  
I have regular acupuncture treatments for nerve and structural pain in my
spine. It helps.  My traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) practitioner is
also a registered nurse, so she is not a dummy about medicine. During the
acupunture treatments she also sneaks in a few pinpricks for my liver
health, and my adrenal/kidney system, which she says is awry.  I have
spoken with her at length about Chinese herbal treatments, both in
combination with Ifn/Riba tx and/or as an alternative to tx.  When I was
on treatment I did have acupuncture treatments but I opted not to use any
Chinese herbals because medicinal herbs have strong chemical properties
there is insufficient information about herbs and drug interactions.
Medicinal herbs have strong chemical properties.  Molecules derived from
plants and fungi are the basis for hundreds of medicines used in
conventional medicine (eg penicillin, taxol cyclosporine, morphine etc).

In addition to worrying about herb/drug interactions,  I  have to choose
carefully in the area of herbal medicine because I have at least one
autoimmune condition, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, wherein my own immune cells
attack my thyroid gland, causing it to be underactive (hypothyroidism).  So
I am uneasy about taking herbs or mushrooms that claim to "stimulate"  the
immune system, lest I stimulate the cells that beat up my thyroid  
Because I have formal education in botany and mycology, I feel comfortable
researching the traditional herbs prescibed for liver disease, and making
my own decisions.  On the basis of conventional medical research,
traditional literature and my own experience, there are only three  herbs
so far that I am convinced are safe for me.   Milk thistle comes from a
plant seed, turmeric from a root, and reishi is a mushroom.  

Imho, if you can't afford the conventional combo treatment, or relapsed
and decide to seek the recommendations of a Chinese practitioner, make
sure he/she knows about your other medical conditions and what drugs you
take.  Avoid blends that contain multiple herbs.  Find out the
scientific/latin name of recommended herbs and do your own online research
about toxicity and side effects.  Try little bits of the herb and then
listen to your body.

My acupuncture gal referred me to this California/hep C  website.
Apparently this doc is well-regarded in TCM circles.  When you read this
stuff, remember that Chinese culture evolved with a very different view of
reality and language structure, so they use some odd, almost poetic
language to describe medical phenomema.  

http://www.docmisha.com/applying/hepatitis_help/index.html

Although not strictly "traditional" Chinese, I like these books, which can
be had from Amazon .com.  The authors are primary researchers and
practitioners in their field:

Natural Therapy for your Liver / Chrisopher Hobbs

Herbs for Hepatitis C and the Liver / Stephen Harrod Buhner

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Therapy-Liver-Christopher-Hobbs/dp/1583331328/sr=8
-2/qid=1166056891/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-1808811-6616066?ie=UTF8&s=books


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102-1907731-3162525?url=search-alias%3Dstrip
books&field-keywords=Herbs+for+hepatitis+C+and+the+liver


The way I start my own online research is to go to pubmed.gov, which is a
government database of medical research, and type in the common OR latin
name of the herb.  If you add the word "review" to the search list you can
narrow the results.  

Reishi = Ganoderma lucidum
Milk thistle = Silybum marianum
Turmeric = Curcuma longa

Finally, I suspect Dr. Marshall is a hack.

Kathy
geez that was blog :-)
Geb Bixer - 14 Dec 2006 05:45 GMT
OK.  It's been several years since I read, and participated in, a
discussion on Chinese herbal medicine and Hep C in this news group.
The one thing I do remember is that, that stuff will probably kill you.
There is a lot of validity in Asian herbal remedies; however, there is
also beacoups of hocus pocus. . Caveat Emptor!

> A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
> responses here:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> virus can be kept in check with there stuff. They said it doesn't cure
> people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."
Waterspider - 15 Dec 2006 08:06 GMT
> OK.  It's been several years since I read, and participated in, a
> discussion on Chinese herbal medicine and Hep C in this news group.
> The one thing I do remember is that, that stuff will probably kill you.
> There is a lot of validity in Asian herbal remedies; however, there is
> also beacoups of hocus pocus. . Caveat Emptor!

...beacoups of hocus pocus...

I love your way with words, Gumboot!
(((hugs)))
Spidey
Geb Bixer - 15 Dec 2006 23:03 GMT
Thanks Spidey, I needed that.

GB
Waterspider - 15 Dec 2006 07:56 GMT
>A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
> responses here:
>
> "They said it doesn't cure
> people but will stop it from causing further damage and death."

They lied.
Terry - 15 Dec 2006 21:17 GMT
>>A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
>> responses here:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>They lied.

They still sell dragon bones and teeth.  Sounds like some good stuff
if it were remotely true.

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/dragonbone.htm

Dragon bone is sweet and balanced. It mainly treats heart and
abdominal demonic influx, spiritual miasma, and old ghosts; it also
treats cough and counterflow of qi, diarrhea and dysentery with pus
and blood, vaginal discharge, hardness and binding in the abdomen, and
fright epilepsy in children. Dragon teeth mainly treats epilepsy,
madness, manic running about, binding qi below the heart, inability to
catch one's breath, and various kinds of spasms. It kills spiritual
disrupters. Protracted taking may make the body light, enable one to
communicate with the spirit light, and lengthen one's life span.
Cactus Jammies - 15 Dec 2006 22:25 GMT
still doesn't replace good old Orange Sunshine!  in another day...

cactus jammies

>>>A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
>>> responses here:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> disrupters. Protracted taking may make the body light, enable one to
> communicate with the spirit light, and lengthen one's life span.
Waterspider - 16 Dec 2006 23:39 GMT
>>>A friend of mine sent me the following e-mail and I like to get some
>>> responses here:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> disrupters. Protracted taking may make the body light, enable one to
> communicate with the spirit light, and lengthen one's life span.

Wow. Who knew?
greyhackles - 17 Dec 2006 01:52 GMT
>> They still sell dragon bones and teeth.  Sounds like some good stuff
>> if it were remotely true.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Wow. Who knew?

Wicked harsh, though - even in an ice-chilled bong...

/greyhackles ;-)
kjoh - 17 Dec 2006 02:04 GMT
Yah I am having a heck of a time these days with old ghosts and abdominal
demonic influx. Chewing dragon bones is so hard on my teeth..

kj
running about manic
Waterspider - 17 Dec 2006 03:06 GMT
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:39:09 -0800, "Waterspider"
> <waterspider@moonlight.net>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> /greyhackles ;-)

LOL!

Yeah, and I'm kind of fond of my "demonic influx."
 
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