 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / December 2006Katie
Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed a lot of you advised she wait for a better treatment since she was so young and still doing drugs. She has long stopped the drugs but do you still recommend waiting? Any input I can pass along will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mom > Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved > at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, > Mom Why wait? To get older? To get sicker? To find a less opportune time? I'm one strongly inclined to advise almost anybody to get started as soon as possible. Been there. Did it. Now broke as a result, but no regrets. -bg > Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved > at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, > Mom Hi Mom, I've been reading your posts about Katie since 2004 and I've to say that I completely misunderstood them as I thought Katie had already done treatment... oh well. Anyway, how old is she? I am quite young (32) and I was diagnosed in 1996. Let's say I can understand her position and yours as well, because I think I've been going through *something* similar to her, and, probably, you've been going through something similar to what my mother had at the time... Now my story is this: they didn't want to treat me in 1996 because I had almost normal LFTs and no detectable (maybe under 600 or 1000 IU/ml back then) virus. After eight years (2004) LFTs went up again and I showed detectable virus. I had to determine genotype (4) and my friend liver doctor recommended to treat. I've always trusted her _a lot_ and so I decided to make it. I've done my best at it: when I started I was 30, my son was just 1 year and a half and I had to work, as well as my partner (she works full time as well). It hasn't been a nice period, but strong motivation helped me a lot. I've tested UNDETECTABLE 6 months and 1 year after End of Treatment and I am happy of what I've done. I don't know how I will be doing doing in the future but I'm sure I got what I wanted from treatment: SVR. I hope it will mean "cure" in the next future and in the meantime that's the way I am considering it :). If Katie does not have a significant liver damage (that in my opinion is anything more that a mild inflammation) she should treat, but this is only my opinion. One thing to consider would be the baby: if he/she (sorry Mom, I don't remember) is still under 1 year, maybe some more months of waiting would be indicated. With my best wishes, jeeb. Smiling Wickedly, Mom answered: > Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved > at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, > Mom Dear Mom, I might be prejudiced, as the treatment worked for me, but I say she should go for it. IMHO it's best to kill the dragon asap as long one is young enough and or still feels physically fit enough to try it. I think that gives the body the best chance at regenerating the liver as soon as the dragon is dead. Take care..  Signature*..· ´¨¨)) ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ .·´-:¦:-((¸¸.·´(º·.¸(¨*·.¸ ¸.·*¨)¸.·º) «.·°·. Michael .·°·-:¦:- >Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved >at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Thanks, >Mom Greetings, Mom. What is your daughter's genotype? If she's a g2, or even a g3, I say just find a good treating physician and start therapy - right after the holidays. No biopsy, just a good set of baseline tests/examinations and off she goes. If she's g1 or g4...Given her age I'm assuming she hasn't been infected even half as long as the typical hepper, so hopefully she hasn't incurred significant liver damage or collateral issues yet. On balance, even without a biopsy, I'd still give treatment a try, but she may be able to wait a couple of years to see if the proverbial "something better" is out of trials and available for all. Otoh, if she's had a biopsy, or there's other sufficient evidence that the virus is hammering her good, she ought to go for therapy now... Cheers - and good luck. /greyhackles >What is your daughter's genotype? If she's a g2, or even a g3, I say just find >a good treating physician and start therapy - right after the holidays. No [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >evidence that the virus is hammering her good, she ought to go for therapy >now... Hi Mom, I agree with Gray's recommendations. If she's genotype 2 or 3 (sorry, can't remember), treat now. If not, and if there isn't an urgent need to treat, I'd wait. Even though there's no guarantee, it looks like at least VX-950 may be available as soon as 2008. And that (combined with the current combo, possibly for a shorter time) could potentially significantly increase the chances for SVR. HCV usually acts slowly. There are exceptions, but if she's off the drugs and living healthy the risk of significant damage is relatively low. So unless there's reason to assume her liver is in bad shape, 2-3 more years of waiting shouldn't be a problem. Thomas SignatureTo reach me, complete my last name in the address. > >What is your daughter's genotype? If she's a g2, or even a g3, I say just find > >a good treating physician and start therapy - right after the holidays. No [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > -- > To reach me, complete my last name in the address. Regarding the idea of waiting 2-3 years: Prospects for improved treatment (with VX-950) are encouraging, but from the standpoint of early parenthood it might be easier to cope with tx when the child is an infant rather than a toddler. Babies sleep a lot, don't get up and run around, and don't require the level of communication that toddlers and older children need. Of course, breast feeding might be ruled out for the mother on ribavirin, but overall that first year might be the most optimal time for a parent to cope with treatment that will be available for a lot more than 2 or 3 years into the future. Based on my experience as a single parent (son is now a young adult) and a person who has been through IFN/Riba tx for HCV, I think the easiest time to take on both parenthood and treatment would have been when my son was an infant -- provided I could stay home and keep things really simple and really lazy: Lay around, cozy-up with the baby, watch TV, heat up formula, feed baby, put baby to sleep, watch TV (or whatever), change diapers, sleep, eat, drink lots of water, play with baby, sleep, heat up formula... I know that studies tell us it can be prudent to postpone treatment under certain circumstances, even if its simply a matter of convenience. Curiously, however, based on the diagnosed individuals who I have interviewed, the overall chances of engaging treatment after deciding not to treat are zero -- I've yet to meet one HCV survivor who has postponed treatment and then later on engaged treatment. Individuals who opted out of treatment years ago continue to do so today even after recent biopsies reveal advanced fibrosis. It's as if once there is an excuse not to treat, there is always an excuse not to treat. This pattern, even though its anecdotal, is more impressive to me than the fact that overall chance for SVR declines by 5% for each decade of infection -- as if the reduced chances for successful treatment were not significant enough alone. Obviously, I continue to have an extreme bias that keeps bringing me to the conclusion that treatment for HCV is very much a yes-or-no proposition in actual practice. People either do or they don't, and the ones that don't keep to their excuses all the way to ESLD. Early parenthood may be a different situation, I don't know. But if the caring for an infant is relatively simple and sedentary compared to caring for older children, I'd think sooner would be as good a time to treat as any over the next 15 years or so. -bg Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Nov 26, 2006, 12:32am (CST-2) From: burkegilman@moxmail.net (Burke Gilman) Thomas Wagner wrote: On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:47:52 -0500, greyhackles <greyhackles@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote: What is your daughter's genotype? If she's a g2, or even a g3, I say just find a good treating physician and start therapy - right after the holidays. No biopsy, just a good set of baseline tests/examinations and off she goes. If she's g1 or g4...Given her age I'm assuming she hasn't been infected even half as long as the typical hepper, so hopefully she hasn't incurred significant liver damage or collateral issues yet. On balance, even without a biopsy, I'd still give treatment a try, but she may be able to wait a couple of years to see if the proverbial "something better" is out of trials and available for all. Otoh, if she's had a biopsy, or there's other sufficient evidence that the virus is hammering her good, she ought to go for therapy now... Hi Mom, I agree with Gray's recommendations. If she's genotype 2 or 3 (sorry, can't remember), treat now. If not, and if there isn't an urgent need to treat, I'd wait. Even though there's no guarantee, it looks like at least VX-950 may be available as soon as 2008. And that (combined with the current combo, possibly for a shorter time) could potentially significantly increase the chances for SVR. HCV usually acts slowly. There are exceptions, but if she's off the drugs and living healthy the risk of significant damage is relatively low. So unless there's reason to assume her liver is in bad shape, 2-3 more years of waiting shouldn't be a problem. Thomas SignatureTo reach me, complete my last name in the address. ///////////////// Regarding the idea of waiting 2-3 years: Prospects for improved treatment (with VX-950) are encouraging, but from the standpoint of early parenthood it might be easier to cope with tx when the child is an infant rather than a toddler. Babies sleep a lot, don't get up and run around, and don't require the level of communication that toddlers and older children need. . That's ludicrous! Pre-toddlers require just as high a level of communication as toddlers. That's the period where they learn language, even if they aren't ready to speak it yet. Just curious, Burke, but were you a single parent when the baby was born and were you the person that got up in the middle of the night to change diapers and do all the bottle feeding? ......... Of course, breast feeding might be ruled out for the mother on ribavirin, but overall that first year might be the most optimal time for a parent to cope with treatment that will be available for a lot more than 2 or 3 years into the future. Based on my experience as a single parent (son is now a young adult) and a person who has been through IFN/Riba tx for HCV, .. You forget that you were just a short-timer doing only 6 months, not the 11 month variety as in Katie's case....and, as you said yourself, the mental and psychological sides started hitting you later on in your short-term therapy. You haven't had the pleasure of doing those final 5 months where those sides become even more profound. And what about riba rage? You think a screaming baby in the middle of the night is going to be a cakewalk? After all, all she'll have to do is shove a bottle in its mouth and change its diaper. ahahahahahahahahahah ... Curiously, however, based on the diagnosed individuals who I have interviewed, the overall chances of engaging treatment after deciding not to treat are zero -- I've yet to meet one HCV survivor who has postponed treatment and then later on engaged treatment. Individuals who opted out of treatment years ago continue to do so today even after recent biopsies reveal advanced fibrosis. It's as if once there is an excuse not to treat, there is always an excuse not to treat. This pattern, even though its anecdotal, is more impressive to me than the fact that overall chance for SVR declines by 5% for each decade of infection -- as if the reduced chances for successful treatment were not significant enough alone. Obviously, I continue to have an extreme bias that keeps bringing me to the conclusion that treatment for HCV is very much a yes-or-no proposition in actual practice. People either do or they don't, and the ones that don't keep to their excuses all the way to ESLD. . What does that have to do with Katie? She doesn't fit your mold. ..... Early parenthood may be a different situation, I don't know. But if the caring for an infant is relatively simple and sedentary compared to caring for older children, I'd think sooner would be as good a time to treat as any over the next 15 years or so. -bg . That's just it...caring for an infant isn't 'relatively simple'. So you think a difficult 11 month long regimen now that has a 60% chance of working (and that's an optimistic figure) as opposed to a shorter and probably easier regimen that has a much higher chance of success is the way to go? Katie may very well find herself having to do a second round of tx later on if she rushes into tx now. elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum My opinion is that Katie ought to have a biopsy to confirm that there is little or no damage and, that being the case, wait til the new drug comes on-line. However, if the biopsy reveals significant damage, treatment now may very well be indicated. elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Elmo, I agree that an infant requires more than just a bottle of formula and a changed diaper. I'm also aware that language acquisition begins shortly after birth and continues for several years and certainly depends upon close participation with the mother and/or other parental figures in the child's life. That said, I don't know the side effects of HCV Tx to be something that would necessarily interfere with the parent-child relationship during infancy any more than at any other time and I simply suggest it might actually be easier to start Tx sooner than later. Of course there's lots of unpredictable variables that can make all the difference in how Tx would work out for a parent caring for an infant child, and nobody is suggesting being on Tx while parenting a child is going to be a cake walk But because an infant is mostly bedfast, if the parent is also spending a lot of time in bed this might be a better situation than that presented by a toddler who is up and running and can be out the door in less time than it takes for Mom to observe that Uncle Elmo is passed out in the kitchen in a pile of beer cans and cigarette butts. About communication, I never said a toddler requires a "higher" level of communication in comparison to an infant - just different. I think we agree that all kids need and deserve attention and whatever appropriate communication that goes with it. We might even concur that behavioral experts will argue that older children do indeed communicate at higher levels than babies-but that is not what I said. I just said the level of communication is different, and, as such, it can translate to a greater or lesser challenge for the parent. In short, it may be easier to satisfy the baby-talk and the physical communication needs of an infant than it is to explain the world and set boundaries for an up-and-running toddler. An infant requires the parent to lay down. A toddler requires a chase. Go ahead, get loaded up on interferon and take your pick; for me, it would most likely be the mode of laying down every time. Regarding your complaint about screaming babies in the middle of the night, I think any parent who finds a crying child to be particularly irritating is a parent who needs professional help. That said, I think your are not really talking about screaming but crying. Give it a thought, and I think you will agree there is a difference: Screaming signals pain that plausibly indicates a need for medical intervention; crying, in contrast, is a routine part of a baby's way of communicating. While it is remarkable how powerful the voice of an infant can be, especially when driven by a pair of healthy lungs, that sound can also be immeasurably reassuring to a parent who would consider the alternative presented by an impaired respiratory system. Loud crying speaks volumes about the baby's health, as well as it often communicates a need for assistance with feeding and elimination - which brings up the topic of bottles and diapers. Elmo, in your retort you have dismissed the job of providing bottles of formula and changing diapers as being a minor task. This dismissal may have been inadvertent, but need I say more? As mundane these parenting functions may be, I think it inappropriate to single them out as anything other than vital activities that prove to be a substantial amount of work when you consider all it takes to get the job done on a perfectly consistent basis. I question where you get the imagery of a parent who is awakened in the night and responds by only shoving a bottle or changing a diaper, as you did not get it from the content of my post. In my post to which you responded, I suggested the parent who is under Tx can still spend long hours with the baby -- talking baby-talk, sharing affection, and all that good stuff. That said, I can point to countless cases where parents were quite comfortable caring for infant children, but were profoundly discontent with challenges presented by the needs of older children. Such does not have to be the case, but it shows that caring for children doesn't necessarily get any easier as they grow. On the other issues, regarding the difficulty of 11-month Tx duration vs. 6-month - hell yeah, being a short-termer, I know there's probably a whole lotta sh.t I never experienced. And you are right as can be about the way it went for me: It just got worse and worse, all the way up to the end. (And, for that matter, it took a good couple months or more to pull out of it after EOT.) So I don't have any personal experience with longer term Tx. So what? There's plenty of us who do! Besides, some long-termers report Tx gets easier during the final months - just another example of how varied the sides can be from person to person.. No less, as my experience might apply to case of person looking at Tx and early parenthood at the same time, I just have to think antidepressant therapy should be in the mix. Your own history as a geno-1 who got mentally battered by Tx three times (correct?) before it was successful would likely lead you to provide the same advice. My whole position can be summed up by saying I think what's-her-name can probably handle Tx sooner just as readily as she can later - the way to go is going to be a way of action, not inaction, and with all the experience to be shared there's a wealth of information to support prudent action. We know that Tx for HCV is usually a rough time no matter what - there's really no "mold" that can be used to fit one person the same as the next. I admit my own experience, both personal and vicarious, not to insist that anybody fit my mold, but to admit my own bias as it is obviously of a nature that's likely to distort my judgment. Whatever I say should be taken with the grain of salt that is my experience, and my experience has made me somewhat cynical: I believe that most people who refuse to take on at least a first round of treatment do so for the wrong reasons. Again, it's obvious that such a bias will affect my conclusions, and anybody who listens to what I have to say ought to know where I am coming from. But if an individual happens to be making a prudent decision on whether or not to treat, then I'm all for it. Bottom line is this: I think serious introspection should be a part of any patient's decision to not treat, and that related discussion by the patient is disingenuous if the intention is to play touchy-feely rather than find what's right. Some people, I swear, just want to hang on their disease. The others would slay a dragon, given half a chance. Take care of yourself. -bg > Elmo, > [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > Take care of yourself. -bg You make all good points, bg, but the strongest one for me was the comparrison of doing tx with a baby who would lie down with mom compared to a three-year-old who would want to be chased by mom! I think this discussion went through here a few years ago (can't remember who) but the bottom line was, what's best for the child-- a sick parent for the duration of tx or, down the road a bit, a terminally ill parent? However, we all know that the sure and easy "magic bullet" cure is just around the corner, any day now, might as well wait for it. We've known this for years now. How many are now on liver transplant lists because they waited? How many died because they waited? All that said, Katie is still young and healthy. But, there are many things to consider. Tx is always a hard choice. Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2006, 10:28pm (CST-2) From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider) "Burke Gilman" <burkegilman@moxmail.net> wrote in message news:1164950987.881473.61410@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... Elmo, I agree that an infant requires more than just a bottle of formula and a changed diaper. I'm also aware that language acquisition begins shortly after birth and continues for several years and certainly depends upon close participation with the mother and/or other parental figures in the child's life. That said, I don't know the side effects of HCV Tx to be something that would necessarily interfere with the parent-child relationship during infancy any more than at any other time and I simply suggest it might actually be easier to start Tx sooner than later. Of course there's lots of unpredictable variables that can make all the difference in how Tx would work out for a parent caring for an infant child, and nobody is suggesting being on Tx while parenting a child is going to be a cake walk But because an infant is mostly bedfast, if the parent is also spending a lot of time in bed this might be a better situation than that presented by a toddler who is up and running and can be out the door in less time than it takes for Mom to observe that Uncle Elmo is passed out in the kitchen in a pile of beer cans and cigarette butts. About communication, I never said a toddler requires a "higher" level of communication in comparison to an infant - just different. I think we agree that all kids need and deserve attention and whatever appropriate communication that goes with it. We might even concur that behavioral experts will argue that older children do indeed communicate at higher levels than babies-but that is not what I said. I just said the level of communication is different, and, as such, it can translate to a greater or lesser challenge for the parent. In short, it may be easier to satisfy the baby-talk and the physical communication needs of an infant than it is to explain the world and set boundaries for an up-and-running toddler. An infant requires the parent to lay down. A toddler requires a chase. Go ahead, get loaded up on interferon and take your pick; for me, it would most likely be the mode of laying down every time. Regarding your complaint about screaming babies in the middle of the night, I think any parent who finds a crying child to be particularly irritating is a parent who needs professional help. That said, I think your are not really talking about screaming but crying. Give it a thought, and I think you will agree there is a difference: Screaming signals pain that plausibly indicates a need for medical intervention; crying, in contrast, is a routine part of a baby's way of communicating. While it is remarkable how powerful the voice of an infant can be, especially when driven by a pair of healthy lungs, that sound can also be immeasurably reassuring to a parent who would consider the alternative presented by an impaired respiratory system. Loud crying speaks volumes about the baby's health, as well as it often communicates a need for assistance with feeding and elimination - which brings up the topic of bottles and diapers. Elmo, in your retort you have dismissed the job of providing bottles of formula and changing diapers as being a minor task. This dismissal may have been inadvertent, but need I say more? As mundane these parenting functions may be, I think it inappropriate to single them out as anything other than vital activities that prove to be a substantial amount of work when you consider all it takes to get the job done on a perfectly consistent basis. I question where you get the imagery of a parent who is awakened in the night and responds by only shoving a bottle or changing a diaper, as you did not get it from the content of my post. In my post to which you responded, I suggested the parent who is under Tx can still spend long hours with the baby -- talking baby-talk, sharing affection, and all that good stuff. That said, I can point to countless cases where parents were quite comfortable caring for infant children, but were profoundly discontent with challenges presented by the needs of older children. Such does not have to be the case, but it shows that caring for children doesn't necessarily get any easier as they grow. On the other issues, regarding the difficulty of 11-month Tx duration vs. 6-month - hell yeah, being a short-termer, I know there's probably a whole lotta sh.t I never experienced. And you are right as can be about the way it went for me: It just got worse and worse, all the way up to the end. (And, for that matter, it took a good couple months or more to pull out of it after EOT.) So I don't have any personal experience with longer term Tx. So what? There's plenty of us who do! Besides, some long-termers report Tx gets easier during the final months - just another example of how varied the sides can be from person to person.. No less, as my experience might apply to case of person looking at Tx and early parenthood at the same time, I just have to think antidepressant therapy should be in the mix. Your own history as a geno-1 who got mentally battered by Tx three times (correct?) before it was successful would likely lead you to provide the same advice. My whole position can be summed up by saying I think what's-her-name can probably handle Tx sooner just as readily as she can later - the way to go is going to be a way of action, not inaction, and with all the experience to be shared there's a wealth of information to support prudent action. We know that Tx for HCV is usually a rough time no matter what - there's really no "mold" that can be used to fit one person the same as the next. I admit my own experience, both personal and vicarious, not to insist that anybody fit my mold, but to admit my own bias as it is obviously of a nature that's likely to distort my judgment. Whatever I say should be taken with the grain of salt that is my experience, and my experience has made me somewhat cynical: I believe that most people who refuse to take on at least a first round of treatment do so for the wrong reasons. Again, it's obvious that such a bias will affect my conclusions, and anybody who listens to what I have to say ought to know where I am coming from. But if an individual happens to be making a prudent decision on whether or not to treat, then I'm all for it. Bottom line is this: I think serious introspection should be a part of any patient's decision to not treat, and that related discussion by the patient is disingenuous if the intention is to play touchy-feely rather than find what's right. Some people, I swear, just want to hang on their disease. The others would slay a dragon, given half a chance. Take care of yourself. -bg You make all good points, bg, but the strongest one for me was the comparrison of doing tx with a baby who would lie down with mom compared to a three-year-old who would want to be chased by mom! I think this discussion went through here a few years ago (can't remember who) but the bottom line was, what's best for the child-- a sick parent for the duration of tx or, down the road a bit, a terminally ill parent? However, we all know that the sure and easy "magic bullet" cure is just around the corner, any day now, might as well wait for it. We've known this for years now. How many are now on liver transplant lists because they waited? How many died because they waited? All that said, Katie is still young and healthy. But, there are many things to consider. Tx is always a hard choice. ////////// I doubt that anyone who had little or no damage to their liver at Katie's early age made it to the transplant list in just a few years. And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is > offering up child rearing advice, WS. > elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Re: Katie > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > elmo > you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. I don't know why she never had children, but whether it was a personal choice or something out of her control, that's a very sensitive area to women and really off limits no matter how you feel about the person. It would be similar to something drastic happening to affect your manhood, and then folks making fun of you about it. My turn to say "tacky" :))) actually, tho I know you didn't mean it to be, it was a cruel thing to say. And now that I jumped into this thread, I would like to say that I think Katie should really think hard about doing tx now. This will be the easiest time of her life in taking care of that precious little one. As the mother of 4, I can tell you that they just get MORE demanding, and the older they get, the more active you have to be. Yes, infants are a lot of work, but as Burke said, they do sleep a lot and I think if mom and baby get used to each others schedules and personalities at this early stage, the babe will handle mom's weaknesses better now than later when she's used to having an active mom taking care of her needs. In this day of magical super absorbant disposable diapers, baby wipes, even bottles that you can feed them baby food from.... taking care of infants is a lot easier than it was when I was washing cloth diapers every day and boiling their bottles! I know many of you moms remember swishing the dirty diaper out in the toilet, before wringing it out and sticking it in the stinky diaper pail to soak! I also thought that the sooner you start battling the dragon, the better your chances of defeating it. most of us old farts have had the virus active for so long in our bodies it's a lot harder for us to flush it all out and destroy it. Katie's young and I think she'd do a lot better even with side effects than many of us, just because of her age. And, in reality, she probably wouldn't even have some of the awful sides that us old farts with our damaged livers have to deal with. We've been fatigued and sick for so long we didnt' have much stamina to begin with. Wish I'd had a chance to do this 25 years ago, I really do believe my younger, no so worn out body would have dealt with it a lot better. And I'm not really having such terrible sides :) I think *I* could take care of an infant right now... you can lay around and watch tv a lot when caring for an infant :) In fact, I can remember as a young mom with my first son, totally babyproofing my living room, gating the doorways to the kitchen and bedrooms, and letting him play right there by me while I napped on the couch. Moms never sleep so soundly that they don't hear every noise their little one is making. And he'd often climb up on my chest and snuggle in and nap with me during those times. Lastly, even with all the exciting research going on and the promising results from some of it, there's still no guarantee they'll find an easier treatment than what we have right now. We hope so! Some of us have to count on them coming through. But IMO, Katie's best chance is to attack that virus now and hopefully be done with it instead of waiting and worrying for who knows how long. (besides, once you put something like this off, it's really easy to keep finding reasons to put it off indefinitely.... I think when you gotta do something, you should just DO it -- the details usually have a way of working themselves out.) anyway, just my two cents worth. And elmo, you know I adore you! I'll buy your next PCS and onion rings!! sigh, ok ok, and some Krispy Kremes too! Sara > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum >> Re: Katie >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was > uncalled for. Thanks, Sara! Glad to see there's no hard feelings about our disagreement. Take care, Spidey Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 12:39pm (CST-2) From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider) "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:7NednXIEHuEZGe3YnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com... <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:26133-45704BC5-351@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. Thanks, Sara! Glad to see there's no hard feelings about our disagreement. Take care, Spidey /////////// It wasn't a personal jab nor meant to be an upper-cut. Sorry if it came off that way, Spidey. elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum >>> Re: Katie >>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Spidey well, not sure one necessarily applies to the other :) but I wouldn't even kick Cody in the a.s right now, (tho fantasizing about it is gratifying). Some things are just NOT done. Not sure you and I will ever agree on much, but I do know that we both are independent women who have strong opinions about things, and that we do agree that sharing our experiences and helping others who are in the process of battling the dragon should be our first priority here on this newsgroup. The rest of it is all ego... and there's nothing wrong with ANY of the egos on this newsgroup :)) S Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 4:42pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) "Waterspider" <waterspider@moonlight.net> wrote in message news:12n14nutln019dc@corp.supernews.com... "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:7NednXIEHuEZGe3YnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com... <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:26133-45704BC5-351@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. Thanks, Sara! Glad to see there's no hard feelings about our disagreement. Take care, Spidey well, not sure one necessarily applies to the other :) but I wouldn't even kick Cody in the a.s right now, (tho fantasizing about it is gratifying). Some things are just NOT done. Not sure you and I will ever agree on much, but I do know that we both are independent women who have strong opinions about things, and that we do agree that sharing our experiences and helping others who are in the process of battling the dragon should be our first priority here on this newsgroup. The rest of it is all ego... and there's nothing wrong with ANY of the egos on this newsgroup :)) S ////////// I always thot this place was a Texas free-for-all, anything goes, wrestling grudge match. You take turns beating up on each other, then beat up on somebody else for a change of pace. :-) elmo < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Re: Katie > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > elmo > < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> frantically licking jelly off my face, yummmmm..... damn, can't reach it all! can I have another, please??? S Next time, I'd prefer the custard filled please > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 5:25pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-4570A7B1-494@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 4:42pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) "Waterspider" <waterspider@moonlight.net> wrote in message news:12n14nutln019dc@corp.supernews.com... "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:7NednXIEHuEZGe3YnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com... <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:26133-45704BC5-351@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. Thanks, Sara! Glad to see there's no hard feelings about our disagreement. Take care, Spidey well, not sure one necessarily applies to the other :) but I wouldn't even kick Cody in the a.s right now, (tho fantasizing about it is gratifying). Some things are just NOT done. Not sure you and I will ever agree on much, but I do know that we both are independent women who have strong opinions about things, and that we do agree that sharing our experiences and helping others who are in the process of battling the dragon should be our first priority here on this newsgroup. The rest of it is all ego... and there's nothing wrong with ANY of the egos on this newsgroup :)) S ////////// I always thot this place was a Texas free-for-all, anything goes, wrestling grudge match. You take turns beating up on each other, then beat up on somebody else for a change of pace. :-) elmo < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> frantically licking jelly off my face, yummmmm..... damn, can't reach it all! can I have another, please??? S Next time, I'd prefer the custard filled please ///////// AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! <elmo putting Sara in a sleeper hold, then gleefully smashing a custard filled Krispy Kreme into her face> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Re: Katie > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > custard > filled Krispy Kreme into her face> sure, thip and dort get groped. I get a sleeper hold. sigh S > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 11:28pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4502-4570F707-449@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 5:25pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-4570A7B1-494@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 4:42pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) "Waterspider" <waterspider@moonlight.net> wrote in message news:12n14nutln019dc@corp.supernews.com... "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:7NednXIEHuEZGe3YnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com... <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:26133-45704BC5-351@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. Thanks, Sara! Glad to see there's no hard feelings about our disagreement. Take care, Spidey well, not sure one necessarily applies to the other :) but I wouldn't even kick Cody in the a.s right now, (tho fantasizing about it is gratifying). Some things are just NOT done. Not sure you and I will ever agree on much, but I do know that we both are independent women who have strong opinions about things, and that we do agree that sharing our experiences and helping others who are in the process of battling the dragon should be our first priority here on this newsgroup. The rest of it is all ego... and there's nothing wrong with ANY of the egos on this newsgroup :)) S ////////// I always thot this place was a Texas free-for-all, anything goes, wrestling grudge match. You take turns beating up on each other, then beat up on somebody else for a change of pace. :-) elmo < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> frantically licking jelly off my face, yummmmm..... damn, can't reach it all! can I have another, please??? S Next time, I'd prefer the custard filled please ///////// AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! <elmo putting Sara in a sleeper hold, then gleefully smashing a custard filled Krispy Kreme into her face> ////////// sure, thip and dort get groped. I get a sleeper hold. sigh S ////////// Yeah, but you get the Krispy Kremes. Besides, an unhappy Frank might show up at my front door and want to make my life miserable. I gave up groping other peoples' wives decades ago. http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! > <elmo putting Sara in a sleeper hold, then gleefully smashing a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > gave up > groping other peoples' wives decades ago. s'ok, at this point in tx, I'm not much in the mood to be groped anyway. Can I have TWO Krispy Kremes? S > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Dec 2, 2006, 12:20pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-457152F6-650@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! <elmo putting Sara in a sleeper hold, then gleefully smashing a custard filled Krispy Kreme into her face> ////////// sure, thip and dort get groped. I get a sleeper hold. sigh S ////////// Yeah, but you get the Krispy Kremes. Besides, an unhappy Frank might show up at my front door and want to make my life miserable. I gave up groping other peoples' wives decades ago. ////////// s'ok, at this point in tx, I'm not much in the mood to be groped anyway. Can I have TWO Krispy Kremes? S //////// Sure...you can have as many as you want. :-) <elmo body-slams Sara into the donut case at Krispy Kreme and empties a bucket of custard over her head> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > I always thot this place was a Texas free-for-all, anything goes, > wrestling grudge match. You take turns beating up on each other, then > beat up on somebody else for a change of pace. :-) > elmo > < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> HEY!...."Don't mess with Texas" Especially with them there danged Krispie Kreme do-nots! Kripes them there Krispy Kremes make a big ol' mess...don't they? dort Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 9:59pm (CST-2) From: dortie_wilde@yahoo.com (dwilde1@comcast.net) I always thot this place was a Texas free-for-all, anything goes, wrestling grudge match. You take turns beating up on each other, then beat up on somebody else for a change of pace. :-) elmo < rubs a jelly-filled Krispy Kreme in Sara's face> HEY!...."Don't mess with Texas" Especially with them there danged Krispie Kreme do-nots! Kripes them there Krispy Kremes make a big ol' mess...don't they? dort ////////// Ummm..... I don't know how to tell you this, Dort, but that was no Krispy Kreme. :-) elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 2:37pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:26133-45704BC5-351@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 3:42pm (CST+7) From: ghibelno@_NOSPAMME_yahoo.it (ghibelno) elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote: [...] And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo What's up Elmo? I've always thought you were quite a gentleman, eh? You know that this is not such a fair thing to tell to a lady. In any case, every woman has some "mother" instinct, despite the fact they had children or not. Although I offered my opinion (as I had to face treatment and take care of my 1 and a half year old son), I think women are the most entitled to discuss whether or not to undergo treatment from this point of view. Have a nice day, jeeb. //////////// Thanks, Jeeb. Just getting ready to go outside and shovel the 9 inches of snow and ice we got yesterday and last night. I've had the flu for the past week. Geez, Jeeb, I thought I WAS being a gentleman. LOL. It was only an observation I was making. I don't think motherly instinct necessarily translates to motherly experience. elmo you have a nice one too Ouch, Elmo. From a woman's point of view, the personal jab at Spidey was uncalled for. I don't know why she never had children, but whether it was a personal choice or something out of her control, that's a very sensitive area to women and really off limits no matter how you feel about the person. It would be similar to something drastic happening to affect your manhood, and then folks making fun of you about it. My turn to say "tacky" :))) actually, tho I know you didn't mean it to be, it was a cruel thing to say. And now that I jumped into this thread, I would like to say that I think Katie should really think hard about doing tx now. This will be the easiest time of her life in taking care of that precious little one. As the mother of 4, I can tell you that they just get MORE demanding, and the older they get, the more active you have to be. Yes, infants are a lot of work, but as Burke said, they do sleep a lot and I think if mom and baby get used to each others schedules and personalities at this early stage, the babe will handle mom's weaknesses better now than later when she's used to having an active mom taking care of her needs. In this day of magical super absorbant disposable diapers, baby wipes, even bottles that you can feed them baby food from.... taking care of infants is a lot easier than it was when I was washing cloth diapers every day and boiling their bottles! I know many of you moms remember swishing the dirty diaper out in the toilet, before wringing it out and sticking it in the stinky diaper pail to soak! I also thought that the sooner you start battling the dragon, the better your chances of defeating it. most of us old farts have had the virus active for so long in our bodies it's a lot harder for us to flush it all out and destroy it. Katie's young and I think she'd do a lot better even with side effects than many of us, just because of her age. And, in reality, she probably wouldn't even have some of the awful sides that us old farts with our damaged livers have to deal with. We've been fatigued and sick for so long we didnt' have much stamina to begin with. Wish I'd had a chance to do this 25 years ago, I really do believe my younger, no so worn out body would have dealt with it a lot better. And I'm not really having such terrible sides :) I think *I* could take care of an infant right now... you can lay around and watch tv a lot when caring for an infant :) In fact, I can remember as a young mom with my first son, totally babyproofing my living room, gating the doorways to the kitchen and bedrooms, and letting him play right there by me while I napped on the couch. Moms never sleep so soundly that they don't hear every noise their little one is making. And he'd often climb up on my chest and snuggle in and nap with me during those times. Lastly, even with all the exciting research going on and the promising results from some of it, there's still no guarantee they'll find an easier treatment than what we have right now. We hope so! Some of us have to count on them coming through. But IMO, Katie's best chance is to attack that virus now and hopefully be done with it instead of waiting and worrying for who knows how long. (besides, once you put something like this off, it's really easy to keep finding reasons to put it off indefinitely.... I think when you gotta do something, you should just DO it -- the details usually have a way of working themselves out.) anyway, just my two cents worth. And elmo, you know I adore you! I'll buy your next PCS and onion rings!! sigh, ok ok, ..... Sara //////////// Geez! It hadn't occurred to me that never having children might be a sensitive issue, I assumed she never had kids as a matter of choice. If my assumption was wrong...I sincerely apologize, Spidey. My comments were NOT intended to be hurtful to you in any way. As far as Katie's situation goes, I stand by what I previously said. It's alright to agree to disagree, as long as you're buying lunch next time. :-) I think I'll have the meatball sandwich with homefries, pickle and a Snapple. :-) Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum (snipped a lot) As far as Katie's situation goes, I stand by what I previously said. It's alright to agree to disagree, as long as you're buying lunch next time. :-) I think I'll have the meatball sandwich with homefries, pickle and a Snapple. :-) Elmo AND a Snapple? geeze, you don't want much, do you? Sara grumble grumble http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 5:08pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-45709FCB-487@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... (snipped a lot) As far as Katie's situation goes, I stand by what I previously said. It's alright to agree to disagree, as long as you're buying lunch next time. :-) I think I'll have the meatball sandwich with homefries, pickle and a Snapple. :-) Elmo AND a Snapple? geeze, you don't want much, do you? Sara grumble grumble //////////// I've gotta drink something, don't I? How can you eat a meatball sandwich and fries without having something to drink? You want me to have a Pepsi instead? (Fricking women......always grumbling about something or other) elmo I want pie too http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 5:08pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-45709FCB-487@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... (snipped a lot) As far as Katie's situation goes, I stand by what I previously said. It's alright to agree to disagree, as long as you're buying lunch next time. :-) I think I'll have the meatball sandwich with homefries, pickle and a Snapple. :-) Elmo AND a Snapple? geeze, you don't want much, do you? Sara grumble grumble //////////// I've gotta drink something, don't I? How can you eat a meatball sandwich and fries without having something to drink? You want me to have a Pepsi instead? (Fricking women......always grumbling about something or other) elmo I want pie too Pickle Pie?? ewwww S or was that apple pie with pickle juice to drink http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 11:32pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4502-4570F602-448@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 5:08pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:347-45709FCB-487@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... (snipped a lot) As far as Katie's situation goes, I stand by what I previously said. It's alright to agree to disagree, as long as you're buying lunch next time. :-) I think I'll have the meatball sandwich with homefries, pickle and a Snapple. :-) Elmo AND a Snapple? geeze, you don't want much, do you? Sara grumble grumble //////////// I've gotta drink something, don't I? How can you eat a meatball sandwich and fries without having something to drink? You want me to have a Pepsi instead? (Fricking women......always grumbling about something or other) elmo I want pie too Pickle Pie?? ewwww S or was that apple pie with pickle juice to drink //////// Don't be silly. :-) elmo raspberry pie http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Re: Katie > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > elmo > raspberry pie Thanks guys. You all make excellent points! You're right Sara. Sydney is just going to keep getting more and more active and it won't be long before she is a real handful. I also have read that the sooner HCV is treated the better the chance of SVR. Maybe that's why every one of her friends that did TX cleared and they were all 1A. I think I mentioned before that their sides were nothing compared to what I have read in here. I was amazed when Katie told me how well they all did on TX. It's up to her but as far as her and Sydney's ages maybe this would be a good time. I'll pass this on to her again. Thanks!!! Mom > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Re: Katie > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > offering up child rearing advice, WS. > elmo Although I was more agreeing with BG than offering advice, I am equally entertained that you think experience is the only teacher in this arena, and that one who has not had children should not have the right to discuss child rearing. Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 1, 2006, 12:02pm (CST-2) From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4502-457035D4-343@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net... Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2006, 10:28pm (CST-2) From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider) "Burke Gilman" <burkegilman@moxmail.net> wrote in message news:1164950987.881473.61410@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... Elmo, I agree that an infant requires more than just a bottle of formula and a changed diaper. I'm also aware that language acquisition begins shortly after birth and continues for several years and certainly depends upon close participation with the mother and/or other parental figures in the child's life. That said, I don't know the side effects of HCV Tx to be something that would necessarily interfere with the parent-child relationship during infancy any more than at any other time and I simply suggest it might actually be easier to start Tx sooner than later. Of course there's lots of unpredictable variables that can make all the difference in how Tx would work out for a parent caring for an infant child, and nobody is suggesting being on Tx while parenting a child is going to be a cake walk But because an infant is mostly bedfast, if the parent is also spending a lot of time in bed this might be a better situation than that presented by a toddler who is up and running and can be out the door in less time than it takes for Mom to observe that Uncle Elmo is passed out in the kitchen in a pile of beer cans and cigarette butts. About communication, I never said a toddler requires a "higher" level of communication in comparison to an infant - just different. I think we agree that all kids need and deserve attention and whatever appropriate communication that goes with it. We might even concur that behavioral experts will argue that older children do indeed communicate at higher levels than babies-but that is not what I said. I just said the level of communication is different, and, as such, it can translate to a greater or lesser challenge for the parent. In short, it may be easier to satisfy the baby-talk and the physical communication needs of an infant than it is to explain the world and set boundaries for an up-and-running toddler. An infant requires the parent to lay down. A toddler requires a chase. Go ahead, get loaded up on interferon and take your pick; for me, it would most likely be the mode of laying down every time. Regarding your complaint about screaming babies in the middle of the night, I think any parent who finds a crying child to be particularly irritating is a parent who needs professional help. That said, I think your are not really talking about screaming but crying. Give it a thought, and I think you will agree there is a difference: Screaming signals pain that plausibly indicates a need for medical intervention; crying, in contrast, is a routine part of a baby's way of communicating. While it is remarkable how powerful the voice of an infant can be, especially when driven by a pair of healthy lungs, that sound can also be immeasurably reassuring to a parent who would consider the alternative presented by an impaired respiratory system. Loud crying speaks volumes about the baby's health, as well as it often communicates a need for assistance with feeding and elimination - which brings up the topic of bottles and diapers. Elmo, in your retort you have dismissed the job of providing bottles of formula and changing diapers as being a minor task. This dismissal may have been inadvertent, but need I say more? As mundane these parenting functions may be, I think it inappropriate to single them out as anything other than vital activities that prove to be a substantial amount of work when you consider all it takes to get the job done on a perfectly consistent basis. I question where you get the imagery of a parent who is awakened in the night and responds by only shoving a bottle or changing a diaper, as you did not get it from the content of my post. In my post to which you responded, I suggested the parent who is under Tx can still spend long hours with the baby -- talking baby-talk, sharing affection, and all that good stuff. That said, I can point to countless cases where parents were quite comfortable caring for infant children, but were profoundly discontent with challenges presented by the needs of older children. Such does not have to be the case, but it shows that caring for children doesn't necessarily get any easier as they grow. On the other issues, regarding the difficulty of 11-month Tx duration vs. 6-month - hell yeah, being a short-termer, I know there's probably a whole lotta sh.t I never experienced. And you are right as can be about the way it went for me: It just got worse and worse, all the way up to the end. (And, for that matter, it took a good couple months or more to pull out of it after EOT.) So I don't have any personal experience with longer term Tx. So what? There's plenty of us who do! Besides, some long-termers report Tx gets easier during the final months - just another example of how varied the sides can be from person to person.. No less, as my experience might apply to case of person looking at Tx and early parenthood at the same time, I just have to think antidepressant therapy should be in the mix. Your own history as a geno-1 who got mentally battered by Tx three times (correct?) before it was successful would likely lead you to provide the same advice. My whole position can be summed up by saying I think what's-her-name can probably handle Tx sooner just as readily as she can later - the way to go is going to be a way of action, not inaction, and with all the experience to be shared there's a wealth of information to support prudent action. We know that Tx for HCV is usually a rough time no matter what - there's really no "mold" that can be used to fit one person the same as the next. I admit my own experience, both personal and vicarious, not to insist that anybody fit my mold, but to admit my own bias as it is obviously of a nature that's likely to distort my judgment. Whatever I say should be taken with the grain of salt that is my experience, and my experience has made me somewhat cynical: I believe that most people who refuse to take on at least a first round of treatment do so for the wrong reasons. Again, it's obvious that such a bias will affect my conclusions, and anybody who listens to what I have to say ought to know where I am coming from. But if an individual happens to be making a prudent decision on whether or not to treat, then I'm all for it. Bottom line is this: I think serious introspection should be a part of any patient's decision to not treat, and that related discussion by the patient is disingenuous if the intention is to play touchy-feely rather than find what's right. Some people, I swear, just want to hang on their disease. The others would slay a dragon, given half a chance. Take care of yourself. -bg You make all good points, bg, but the strongest one for me was the comparrison of doing tx with a baby who would lie down with mom compared to a three-year-old who would want to be chased by mom! I think this discussion went through here a few years ago (can't remember who) but the bottom line was, what's best for the child-- a sick parent for the duration of tx or, down the road a bit, a terminally ill parent? However, we all know that the sure and easy "magic bullet" cure is just around the corner, any day now, might as well wait for it. We've known this for years now. How many are now on liver transplant lists because they waited? How many died because they waited? All that said, Katie is still young and healthy. But, there are many things to consider. Tx is always a hard choice. ////////// I doubt that anyone who had little or no damage to their liver at Katie's early age made it to the transplant list in just a few years. And I find it humorous that somebody who has never had children is offering up child rearing advice, WS. elmo Although I was more agreeing with BG than offering advice, I am equally entertained that you think experience is the only teacher in this arena, and that one who has not had children should not have the right to discuss child rearing. /////////// You don't have to bear em to care for em. I've got 3. elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2006, 9:29pm (CST-2) From: burkegilman@moxmail.net (Burke Gilman) Elmo, I agree that an infant requires more than just a bottle of formula and a changed diaper. I'm also aware that language acquisition begins shortly after birth and continues for several years and certainly depends upon close participation with the mother and/or other parental figures in the child's life. That said, I don't know the side effects of HCV Tx to be something that would necessarily interfere with the parent-child relationship during infancy any more than at any other time and I simply suggest it might actually be easier to start Tx sooner than later. Of course there's lots of unpredictable variables that can make all the difference in how Tx would work out for a parent caring for an infant child, and nobody is suggesting being on Tx while parenting a child is going to be a cake walk But because an infant is mostly bedfast, if the parent is also spending a lot of time in bed this might be a better situation than that presented by a toddler who is up and running and can be out the door in less time than it takes for Mom to observe that Uncle Elmo is passed out in the kitchen in a pile of beer cans and cigarette butts. About communication, I never said a toddler requires a "higher" level of communication in comparison to an infant - just different. I think we agree that all kids need and deserve attention and whatever appropriate communication that goes with it. We might even concur that behavioral experts will argue that older children do indeed communicate at higher levels than babies-but that is not what I said. I just said the level of communication is different, and, as such, it can translate to a greater or lesser challenge for the parent. In short, it may be easier to satisfy the baby-talk and the physical communication needs of an infant than it is to explain the world and set boundaries for an up-and-running toddler. An infant requires the parent to lay down. A toddler requires a chase. Go ahead, get loaded up on interferon and take your pick; for me, it would most likely be the mode of laying down every time. Regarding your complaint about screaming babies in the middle of the night, I think any parent who finds a crying child to be particularly irritating is a parent who needs professional help. That said, I think your are not really talking about screaming but crying. Give it a thought, and I think you will agree there is a difference: Screaming signals pain that plausibly indicates a need for medical intervention; crying, in contrast, is a routine part of a baby's way of communicating. While it is remarkable how powerful the voice of an infant can be, especially when driven by a pair of healthy lungs, that sound can also be immeasurably reassuring to a parent who would consider the alternative presented by an impaired respiratory system. Loud crying speaks volumes about the baby's health, as well as it often communicates a need for assistance with feeding and elimination - which brings up the topic of bottles and diapers. Elmo, in your retort you have dismissed the job of providing bottles of formula and changing diapers as being a minor task. This dismissal may have been inadvertent, but need I say more? As mundane these parenting functions may be, I think it inappropriate to single them out as anything other than vital activities that prove to be a substantial amount of work when you consider all it takes to get the job done on a perfectly consistent basis. I question where you get the imagery of a parent who is awakened in the night and responds by only shoving a bottle or changing a diaper, as you did not get it from the content of my post. In my post to which you responded, I suggested the parent who is under Tx can still spend long hours with the baby -- talking baby-talk, sharing affection, and all that good stuff. That said, I can point to countless cases where parents were quite comfortable caring for infant children, but were profoundly discontent with challenges presented by the needs of older children. Such does not have to be the case, but it shows that caring for children doesn't necessarily get any easier as they grow. On the other issues, regarding the difficulty of 11-month Tx duration vs. 6-month - hell yeah, being a short-termer, I know there's probably a whole lotta sh.t I never experienced. And you are right as can be about the way it went for me: It just got worse and worse, all the way up to the end. (And, for that matter, it took a good couple months or more to pull out of it after EOT.) So I don't have any personal experience with longer term Tx. So what? There's plenty of us who do! Besides, some long-termers report Tx gets easier during the final months - just another example of how varied the sides can be from person to person.. No less, as my experience might apply to case of person looking at Tx and early parenthood at the same time, I just have to think antidepressant therapy should be in the mix. Your own history as a geno-1 who got mentally battered by Tx three times (correct?) before it was successful would likely lead you to provide the same advice. My whole position can be summed up by saying I think what's-her-name can probably handle Tx sooner just as readily as she can later - the way to go is going to be a way of action, not inaction, and with all the experience to be shared there's a wealth of information to support prudent action. We know that Tx for HCV is usually a rough time no matter what - there's really no "mold" that can be used to fit one person the same as the next. I admit my own experience, both personal and vicarious, not to insist that anybody fit my mold, but to admit my own bias as it is obviously of a nature that's likely to distort my judgment. Whatever I say should be taken with the grain of salt that is my experience, and my experience has made me somewhat cynical: I believe that most people who refuse to take on at least a first round of treatment do so for the wrong reasons. Again, it's obvious that such a bias will affect my conclusions, and anybody who listens to what I have to say ought to know where I am coming from. But if an individual happens to be making a prudent decision on whether or not to treat, then I'm all for it. Bottom line is this: I think serious introspection should be a part of any patient's decision to not treat, and that related discussion by the patient is disingenuous if the intention is to play touchy-feely rather than find what's right. Some people, I swear, just want to hang on their disease. The others would slay a dragon, given half a chance. Take care of yourself. -bg ///////////// You take care of yourself too, Burke. :-) elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved > at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Mom Hi Mom, Ut oh... does this mean we'll be calling you Worried Mom again? Just kidding <g> I am so proud of Katie, and so happy for her! She's done one helluva job to beat her addiction and get her life together, and I suspect that doing treatment is the final stage of her recovery. Even without symptoms, the knowledge that hepatitis c is living in your blood and replicating in your liver billions of times every single day is... well, just f.cking creepy. Of course you know the physiological benefits of early treatment so I won't repeat them again. I wish that I'd had the opportunity to do tx when I was younger, healthier and my liver wasn't so badly beat up from hep c. I think that I would have considerably extended my potential lifespan, and quality of life, by doing so. If Katie wants to do it, if she's psyched for it, then I say go for it! All my best to Katie, and you too! Spidey >> Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally >> relieved at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Spidey > Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I will pass them along. Katie is > 1A and hasn't had a biopsy. A couple of her good friends have gone through > it and cleared. The ultimate decision is hers but I will tell her what you > all said. You're right Jeeb about Sydney being so young. That worries me > especially since I am 120 miles away. It will be hard to give her the help > she will need. Whatever she decides we will get through it together. Thanks for your help. Mom Knowing that Katie is type 1 and that she's had the disease a relatively short time, I'd wait a couple of years to see if the new protease inhibitors are coming on-line. Not that it will make tx any easier, necessarily, but I'm guessing that tx duration will be shorter, thus limiting her exposure to the really nasty drugs, interferon and ribavirin. Her chances of beating the dragon on the first try will be a heck of alot better with the new drug in the mix. Multiple tries at tx are pretty hard on the body.....I don't feel like the same person I was prior to three rounds of tx, mentally or physically. Katie is a brand new mother.....babies need alot of attention, especially early on. These are baby's most formative years and he needs a mom that's 100% and not suffering from the mind games tx will almost undoubtedly throw at Katie. I think the timing is wrong for Katie doing tx now. I'd tell her to be patient and wait a couple of years. Sorry to be the lone dissenter here. :-) elmo nlymtm http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum >I think the timing is wrong for Katie doing tx now. I'd tell her to be >patient and wait a couple of years. Sorry to be the lone dissenter >here. :-) You're not. Both Greyhackles and I recommended waiting if she's geno 1 and there's no sign of severe liver damage (which is quite unlikely given the short time she's been infected). I completely agree that attempting full-length treatment with a young baby would be an extreme strain on both Katie and Sydney, especially if there's no support system in place. Why go through that now when it's very likely that it will only be a few years for better stuff to come on the market? Thomas SignatureTo reach me, complete my last name in the address. Re: Katie Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Nov 21, 2006, 11:26am (CST+1) From: tomw@capecod.com (Thomas Wagner) I think the timing is wrong for Katie doing tx now. I'd tell her to be patient and wait a couple of years. Sorry to be the lone dissenter here. :-) You're not. Both Greyhackles and I recommended waiting if she's geno 1 and there's no sign of severe liver damage (which is quite unlikely given the short time she's been infected). I completely agree that attempting full-length treatment with a young baby would be an extreme strain on both Katie and Sydney, especially if there's no support system in place. Why go through that now when it's very likely that it will only be a few years for better stuff to come on the market? Thomas SignatureOooops, guess I wasn't reading close enough. Glad we're in agreement. :-) elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net> <k_GdnfRPKPVJcv_YnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@adelphia.com> : >>> Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally >>> relieved at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >Thanks for your help. >Mom hi mom, i am with elmo and jeeb and thomas on this one. she has no liver damage and could wait for something better to come up. concentrate on the baby first, she'll have a lot on her head. see also my reply to your former post below, i think it is something you have to keep in mind as well. and treatment will only enforce negative thoughts if she'd get them. all the best to all of you and please read the post below as well. i copied your post and my reply to it, because i don't know if you had the chance to read it, being so busy! lots of hugs anja (or if someone has moms email address, please pass these messages to her!, thank you) start of repost from a while ago: "Mom" <nospam4me@forgetaboutit.com> <3171h.1397$zf.708@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> : >Hi Anja, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Hope all is well. >Mom and Grandma thank you so much! 48 hours! pfew. both of you did a very good job! (and lets not forget the daddy!) ;) what a gorgeous baby! congratulations to all !!! having a child herself now, and the protective mother instinct that comes with it, kathy will probably realize (again) what she has done to her own mother in the past. if she starts to get negative feelings about her past (and passed,heh) 'behavior, tell her to see a psychotherapist. it is no luxury after having a baby, as a former 'user'. (i had that problem after i had ezra and no one wants a depression!) i am so glad for all of you! congrats again, and thank you for the wonderful news! (((((((mom kathy sydney marie)))))))))) anja -- mhm 35x6 smeeter 37(?) wsd40 we are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars wilde -- mhm 35x6 smeeter 37(?) wsd40 we are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars wilde > "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net> > <k_GdnfRPKPVJcv_YnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@adelphia.com> : [quoted text clipped - 131 lines] > we are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars > wilde I have e-mailed Katie all of the posts you have responded with. Thank you so much for the insight. I talked to Katie today about contacting you all and she reminded me that she will only have her health insurance for a short time since she is not going back to work right away. As I said she has had a few good friends go through TX and clear. Frankly I asked about them a lot when they were going through it and they made it seem like a piece of cake. I didn't understand after reading your stories all of these years how they functioned so well through their own. I don't think they all had 1A either. I told Katie I would forward the responses but no matter what she decided I would support her and be there as much as I could. There were some really important things written here for her to think about and I know she will read them all. Once again my friends are there for me. Thank you! Mom Anja, I am at tanbecat adelphia dot net. Sorry I don't get on near as often as I used to with this new job. Write me soon. Love you! Mom~ If Katie is worried about having no health insurance you can go to http://www.pegintron.com/peg/application Click on Support and Assistance then Financial Assistance--This will take you to Schering's Commitment to Care. I have no health insurance and qualified. They sent me the medication right to my house at absolutley no cost. For all my bloodwork and doctor visits I found a clinic that went by income and a lab that provided grants. In other words my treatment only cost me the gas it took to drive to the doctor. Also if Katie wont be returning to work anytime soon this might be a good time to do the treatment. She could stay at home and take naps with the baby. How old is Katie now. I was 19 when diagnosed and started treatment at 22 when my son was almost a year old. I don't regret doing treatment when my son was so young. I look at it as making sure I would be around to see him graduate high school and get married, have kids, ect. A small price to pay in the long run. Also, I just wanted to let you know that you seem like a wonderful and caring mother. It is great that Katie has so much support. Keep up the good work! >> "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net> >> <k_GdnfRPKPVJcv_YnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@adelphia.com> : [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Anja, I am at tanbecat adelphia dot net. Sorry I don't get on near as often >as I used to with this new job. Write me soon. Love you! On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:41:52 -0500, "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <r9idnS8Oct8hUfzYnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Katie has decided to start treatment in February. I am personally relieved >at the same time being scared to death. I know when she was first diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Any input I can pass along will be greatly appreciated. There are good arguments for and against treating if there is no or minimal damage to the liver. What did her biopsy reveal? (she did have one I take it?). > On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:41:52 -0500, "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net>, in > message ID <r9idnS8Oct8hUfzYnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@adelphia.com>, in the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > minimal damage to the liver. What did her biopsy reveal? (she did > have one I take it?). Hi Paul, No, she hasn't had a biopsy. She just said tonight that maybe she should. Do you think it's necessary? I have heard both sides to that. Mom On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:04:11 -0500, "Mom" <mom@nospamplease.net>, in message ID <QL-dnW8vKoimUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@adelphia.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Hi Paul, > >No, she hasn't had a biopsy. She just said tonight that maybe she should. Do >you think it's necessary? I have heard both sides to that. > >Mom I'm sure others will add to this but there are issues for and against a biopsy. Here they are as I see them. If someone is going to delay treating for some time, I would say that it is a very bad idea to do this without a biopsy. For all its fla |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message