Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / November 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

4/48

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Russian - 12 Nov 2006 05:23 GMT
Shot 4 of 48 on Friday.  Tried doing it on Friday morning, thinking it
might give me more weekend uptime.  I was fine during the day Friday.

But the result was a woozy Friday night, a crummy Saturday (not
horrible, just crummy), and stay-at-home Saturday night anyway.

It's interesting how the day or two after the Peg, I can feel almost
okay and bored at home, but feel much worse if I go out.  Work is no
problem so far during the week since I'm not loading trucks or playing
major league baseball.

The sides aren't too bad as of any single moment, but it gets irritating
after awhile to be down, feverish, and achey and getting bored hanging
around.

The first weekend, watching old movies, catching up on reading etc. was
almost welcome, but I'm getting *very* caught up on reading and old
movies! <smile>

I'm also losing about 3/4 pound or so a week, but I can afford it <g>.
The very slight semi-nausea I think is from the Riba... seems to come
about 3 hours after each dose.  Not horrible but a little food goes a
long way.

For some bizarre reason, I'm getting the most intense itching on my
elbows!  I mean the very ends where the skin is toughest.

I want to say thanks to prior google-able advice from this forum on
itching - I've had a bit of it, and the recommendation to use cold tap
water on the itch works wonders for at least a few hours.  I'm trying
that oatmeal lotion - see how that works - Vaseline intensive care
actually burns sometimes.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 12 Nov 2006 14:56 GMT
Don't scratch!  :-)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Russian - 12 Nov 2006 17:45 GMT
> Don't scratch!  :-)
> elmo

I don't (mostly <g>).

I had to take 1/4 of a percoset last night to damp the itching enough to
go to sleep.  I really didn't feel any "buzz" (which is an annoyance at
this point in life anyway) off that amount of percoset, but it did the
trick on the itching.
Burke Gilman - 12 Nov 2006 21:08 GMT
> > Don't scratch!  :-)
> > elmo
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> this point in life anyway) off that amount of percoset, but it did the
> trick on the itching.

For itching, I used the following:

*Coal tar shampoo (marketed for tx of dandruff).
*Full strength OTC hydrocortisone cream
*Regular skin lotion
*Benadryl

I don't know that it did any good, but until it ran out I used coal tar
shampoo that I found in the shower and sometimes I took Benadryl. Bouts
of itching were worst during the early weeks when I broke out in hives
once. Never developed psoriasis or anything like that, so I guess I had
it easy.

All in all, when itching got bothersome I'd dose Benadryl, take a
shower with or without the coal tar stuff, and follow that with
lotions, sometimes the OTC hydrocortisone on my elbows and shins and
back.

For the HCV patient suffering the sides of interferron and ribavirin, I
think Benadryl can be a good OTC adjunct med because its indicated by
skin itching and is also administered as a  sleep aid and anti-nausea
agent.

Benadryl:
http://www.dermadoctor.com/pages/BrandDetail45.asp
Russian - 13 Nov 2006 02:01 GMT
> For itching, I used the following:
>
> *Coal tar shampoo (marketed for tx of dandruff).
> *Full strength OTC hydrocortisone cream
> *Regular skin lotion
> *Benadryl

I haven't tried benadryl yet - thanks for the reminder.

Funny how we develop these "rituals" - multiple treatments for a single
problem.  We do a bunch of things at some point in desperation, and then
 it works, so we keep doing all of the things.

Can't blame us for not doing the scientific experiment of leaving out
one item or another and seeing how it goes - when something is really
bothering you, you just do the ritual.

For me (and I'm new at this), so far it's this:

- When I take a shower, I don't stand in the water anymore - I point the
showerhead down and just use the water to get wet and wash off soap.  I
use lukewarm water, and then at the end do a quick spray with hot (not
really hot, just normal) water to dissolve all the soap and open the pores.

- Get out of the shower, turn off the cold, so the room fills with
steam.  Pat down with towel a little, no rubbing.

- Turn off steam after a couple of minutes, open window and door, let
cold air blow through.

- Use powder on the itchy & red places.  Only use lotion where there are
actual rough dry spots, not merely red.

- Chill for a few minutes on the bed before getting dressed.

- Wear an undershirt under my shirt to greatly lessen friction during
the day.

This morning treatment gets me through the day.  Now, if that benadryl
concept (or something) can get me through the night), I'd be set.
Cactus Jammies - 13 Nov 2006 02:55 GMT
Hey Russian
 Something that helps cut down on abrasion to your sensitive neck and face
areas when you sleep is to use a well-washed satin pillow cover.  You'll
find that that it is soft and relatively lacking friction.
 At the end of my tx, I could not wear anything with any synthetic in it or
my skin would start to chafe badly.  That meant labels and seams in shirts,
too.  I was down to 100% cotton tank tops and cotton training pants, very
loose.

cactus jammies

>> For itching, I used the following:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> This morning treatment gets me through the day.  Now, if that benadryl
> concept (or something) can get me through the night), I'd be set.
Russian - 14 Nov 2006 07:20 GMT
> I was down to 100% cotton tank tops and cotton training pants, very
> loose.

I'm a cotton-man by nature.  Linen and wool are numbers 2 & 3.  Anything
ending with "-on", or "-ex" is right out.
Al - 16 Nov 2006 00:11 GMT
I wouldn't use OTC hydrocortisone cream or any other corticosteroids (unless
it is on a very small portion of you skin) because they suppress the immune
system

"corticosteroid - a steroid hormone produced by the adrenal cortex or
synthesized; administered as drugs they reduce swelling and decrease the
body's immune response;..."
Ref.: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/corticosteroids

"...corticosteroids, ...relieve inflammation as well as suppress the immune
system. Corticosteroids given for a long time have many side effects (see
Corticosteroids: Uses and Side Effects). When possible, corticosteroids are
used for a short time-when the disorder begins or when symptoms worsen...."
Ref.: http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec16/ch186/ch186a.html

>> > Don't scratch!  :-)
>> > elmo
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Benadryl:
> http://www.dermadoctor.com/pages/BrandDetail45.asp
Thomas Wagner - 16 Nov 2006 02:09 GMT
>I wouldn't use OTC hydrocortisone cream or any other corticosteroids (unless
>it is on a very small portion of you skin) because they suppress the immune
>system

That's true for steroids you take orally. To get an immunosuppressant
effect with OTC hydrocortisone creams you'd have to slather your whole
body in it for days on end, and probably not even then. The dosage
absorbed through the skin that could have any other than a local effect
is generally minuscule. In some (rare) cases the immunosuppressant
effect of corticosteroids may even be beneficial during tx, for example
in cases of autoimmune reactions.

OTC or prescription strength hydrocortisone cream may not be ideal for
other reasons, long term use may damage the skin, but it often is a
vital component in fighting TX side effects. Don't panic just because
you've read something that doesn't even apply to this form of HC.

Thomas
Signature

To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

Al - 16 Nov 2006 21:34 GMT
> That's true for steroids you take orally. To get an immunosuppressant
> effect with OTC hydrocortisone creams you'd have to slather your whole
> body in it for days on end, and probably not even then. The dosage
> absorbed through the skin that could have any other than a local effect
> is generally minuscule.

Any reference for such a bold claim, please?

My philosophy in this case is: "In doubt, through it out"
The effect of topical corticosteroids happens BECAUSE they penetrate the
skin. The concept that the immune effect will be "generally minuscule" is a
very
relative one, and it depends on the individual susceptibility.
As always, one must make sure the benefits outweigh the potential risks.
Fortunately there are safer alternatives already mentioned on previous
posts.
Thomas Wagner - 17 Nov 2006 06:04 GMT
>Any reference for such a bold claim, please?

Any reference for your claim that topical hydrocortisone has an effect
on the immune system? All you've cited were references to orally
administered corticosteroids. Here's one reference I used:

http://dermnetnz.org/treatments/topical-steroids.html

To cite: "If more than 50g of clobetasol propionate, or 500g of
hydrocortisone is used per week, sufficient steroid may be absorbed
through the skin to result in adrenal gland suppression and/or
eventually Cushing's syndrome." Since maximum strength OTC
hydrocortisone cream contains just 1% of HC, you would have to apply
50kg of the stuff per week for this kind of side effect. That's about
1,785 1oz tubes per week.

>My philosophy in this case is: "In doubt, through it out"
>The effect of topical corticosteroids happens BECAUSE they penetrate the
>skin. The concept that the immune effect will be "generally minuscule" is a
>very relative one, and it depends on the individual susceptibility.

They penetrate the upper layers of the skin, but the effects generally
stay within the skin. The dosage absorbed into the skin also depends on
the treated area, see the cited site for more info.

>As always, one must make sure the benefits outweigh the potential risks.
>Fortunately there are safer alternatives already mentioned on previous
>posts.

And in many cases, those safer alternatives are insufficient and have to
be supplemented with appropriate medication, including OTC and
prescription strength corticosteroids. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong
with using topical steroids in appropriate doses for a limited time.

To cite the above site again: "The risk of these [skin] side effects
[such as thinning] depends on the strength of the steroid, the length of
application, the site treated, and the nature of the skin problem. If
you use a potent steroid cream on your face as a moisturiser, you will
develop the side effects within a few weeks. If you use 1%
hydrocortisone cream on your hands for 25 years, you will have done no
harm at all (except for having wasted a lot of money!)"

Thomas
Signature

To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

Al - 18 Nov 2006 05:36 GMT
The references I provided are not restricted to orally administered
corticosteroids.

The reference you provide is from an organization sponsored by sellers of
hydrocortisone and other "skincare products"...

Even if it were true that one needs those large amounts of hydrocortisone to
achieve Adrenal Gland SUPPRESSION, and Cushing's Syndrome, I'm not talking
about reaching that level of toxicity. My concern is that the treatment of
HCV infection is of limited efficacy as it is. Anything that may hamper the
full efficacy of the treatment should be avoided, and anything one can do to
optimize the benefit of the treatment should be adopted if tolerable.
I agree with you that "in many cases, ... safer alternatives are
insufficient and have to be supplemented with appropriate medication,
including OTC and prescription strength corticosteroids." Furthermore, some
people have to stop treatment altogether due to side effects. But, as a
general rule, I wouldn't use OTC hydrocortisone cream or any other
corticosteroids (unless it is on a very small portion of the skin) because
they suppress the immune system, even if it were a small effect, during
treatment.

The following references supports my suspicions about using hydrocortisone
during treatment :

West J Med. 1995 February; 162(2): 123-126.
Adverse effects of topical corticosteroid use.

D A Fisher
Department of Medicine, University of California, School of Medicine, San
Francisco, USA.

Topical corticosteroid use, a common and often efficacious therapy for a
wide variety of cutaneous conditions, may have substantial adverse effects.
These range from the notable nondermatologic side effects of
hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis suppression, Cushing's disease, femoral
head osteonecrosis, and cataracts to a variety of less serious skin effects
such as cutaneous tinea and contact dermatitis. The broad availability,
efficacy, relative low cost, and ease of applying topical corticosteroids
should not induce complacency or a cavalier attitude in prescribers.
Physicians should have the same awareness of the possible side effects of
topical steroid use as when prescribing parenteral medication.
-------------------------------------------

Br J Dermatol. 1986 Oct;115(4):475-84.
Effect of percutaneous absorption of hydrocortisone on adrenocortical
responsiveness in infants with severe skin disease.
Turpeinen M, Salo OP,  Leisti S.

Percutaneous absorption of hydrocortisone was studied in 18 children (aged
from 6 weeks to 14 1/2 years) with atopic or seborrhoeic dermatitis, by
measuring their serum cortisol before and after application of 1%
hydrocortisone cream. Endogenous secretion of cortisol was suppressed with
dexamethasone. A 24 h absorption test was performed on nine children. In
six, percutaneous absorption was detected. The highest serum cortisol level
was reached within the first 6 h. A 4 h absorption test was developed on the
basis of the 24 h test. This short absorption test was performed on nine
children, and in eight of them absorption of hydrocortisone was detected.
The rise of serum cortisol ranged from 98 to 2669 nmol/l. The 2 h ACTH test
was performed to evaluate the effect of previous treatment with topical
glucocorticoids. Suppressed adrenocortical function was found in five of 13
children, and was associated significantly with high post-application serum
cortisol levels. This occurred more often in infants with a severe skin
disorder than in older children or in those with mild or moderate skin
disease.
-------------------------------------------

Useful references that highlight some concerns in this context:
http://health.yahoo.com/drug/d03205a1
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1417221&blobtype=pdf

-------------------------------------------

>>Any reference for such a bold claim, please?
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> Thomas
Cactus Jammies - 18 Nov 2006 13:42 GMT
I was supplied some samples of a high potency steroidal cream to manage my
psoriasis.  I had previously used a less active prescribed steroidal cream
for the same purpose.  The Derm knew of the reason why I could expect an
eruption during the tx.   I was referred for consultation by my Liver
specialist.

BTW, I was also told by my Liver clinic that 500 mg of tylenol for shot side
effects for 3 days a week would not hurt my liver.  I never used the cream
much, as my psoriasis went down to nothing!  According to the published,
known side effects, the combo tx likely could have accelerated the spread
and severity of the psoriasis.

So much for general notes on side effects and yay for me.

My skin was suffering from rashes and other nice stuff that I just tried to
leave alone or manage infection risk with topical anti-bacteriological
potions.   If my psoriasis is any indication (it persists, but at a far
lower surface area of my body, no huge deal, just on the elbows)  and my
Liver is supposed to have a lot to do with skin health, then perhaps my
liver got a bit better too.

I relapsed according to the post-tx 6 month pcr.  But I was clear from I
would say, starting somewhere between weeks 24 and 34 and tested negative
two weeks post tx.  At that time, my LFTs were in the twenties.  I had
almost a 3 log drop at week 12.  Current conventional treatment methods
would have me start my 48 week actual suppression of the virii or whats left
of them, right when I cleared which would have added anywhere from (I
estimate), 24 to 34 weeks to the total.  yi.  anyway, numbers theory for the
devotees of combination therapy as the only way to kick the teeth out of the
Dragon.

cactus jammies.
> The references I provided are not restricted to orally administered
> corticosteroids.
[quoted text clipped - 124 lines]
>>
>> Thomas
Russian - 16 Nov 2006 18:12 GMT
> *Benadryl

A thousand thanks for the Benadryl mention.

I don't take it because I don't like how it makes me feel, but I like it
way better than the itching.

One Benadryl did the trick.  And it may have calmed down the nausea as well.

I actually fear this kind of itching - I had once in the late 70's
(maybe that was my own interferon kicking in).

Now I have a weapon and I'm not scared of itching attacks anymore.

This was a biggie for me.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 16 Nov 2006 21:36 GMT
If you're going to be taking benadryl, make sure you drink even MORE
water.  Antihistamines will dry you out lickity-split. elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
JV - 12 Nov 2006 18:05 GMT
Sounds like your doing ok for the first 4. I hope it gets easier for
you. Its winter now and you just better get used to being kind of idle.
Start doing stuff at home forget going out if you really don't have to
except to eat of course. As far as weight loss I put on 15lbs just for
the tx and it was gone and a little more at the end. I was really lucky
when it came to itching I never had any but it is a problem. The folks
in hear know lots on that subject. Remember always move your shot back a
day if you want to change it never foreward of you will go a 24hr span
with no inf in you. Good luck and eat lots of ice cream it seems to be a
#1 for some of us on tx.                  Juanita
Russian - 13 Nov 2006 02:03 GMT
> Sounds like your doing ok for the first 4. I hope it gets easier for
> you. Its winter now and you just better get used to being kind of idle.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> with no inf in you. Good luck and eat lots of ice cream it seems to be a
> #1 for some of us on tx.                  Juanita

Ice cream!  Okay, will *force* myself to do so <smile>... thx.

PS:  Yeah, that's why I put on 15 lbs before treatment, it was for
medical reasons, yeah... <g>

Of course, in my great wisdom, I put on the extra weight several *years*
before treatment, just to be safe... <g>

PS:  Thanks...
flifla - 13 Nov 2006 04:49 GMT
Hi Russian...welcome to the world of treatment.

Itching yes. I think it is caused by the really really dry skin  the
medications cause. Elbows are pretty dry. Vaseline Intensive Care
lotion will burn- use plain old Vaseline. A VERY thin layer- believe me
it works. I have been having to use it since beginning of tx and I am
in week 38 now. I must use it around my eyes every night or else they
dry out so badly the skin actually hurts. Keep your hands and doorknobs
and anything you touch especially clean. If you go grocery shopping
yourself try not to touch anything. I cover the shopping cart with a
paper towel - I don't care what people think.
> Shot 4 of 48 on Friday.  Tried doing it on Friday morning, thinking it
> might give me more weekend uptime.  I was fine during the day Friday.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> that oatmeal lotion - see how that works - Vaseline intensive care
> actually burns sometimes.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.