Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / March 2006
It's not about religion
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Sara - 06 Mar 2006 16:08 GMT Ok Spidey, and/or anyone else who might care.
I'll try one last time, though I don't understand how my words got so twisted and misinterpreted.
First, Cody posts a link to a website that he thinks is funny and that others in this group would enjoy.
Folks, trusting Cody, click on that link and are taken to this website where there's a parody of a gay Jesus sashaying thru the streets singing "I will survive", only to be taken out by a bus.
Some folks felt sucker-punched by this video -- they expected humor and got their belief system slammed instead. Imagine yourself in their position -- you don't have to agree with their beliefs, but you should be able to respect their right to those beliefs enough to understand why they'd be upset about Cody posting this link to begin with.
These folks react to that post, protesting the act, and asking that he refrain from doing that again. Does he say "oops, you're right, I was being insensitive and I'm sorry. I'll try to be more careful"? yeah right. NO, instead, he defends his actions and states that he'll do what he wants and the hell with other folks feelings. Others pipe up, "geeze, what's wrong with you? that video was FUNNY"... invalidating the honest reaction some folks had to that video. More protests garner more negative response from the support group, defending/enabling Cody's initial action.
So, not only did you all make it "ok" for Cody to do and say anything he wants, you defended his actions by telling the protestors that THEY were wrong to protest, and they needed to get a sense of humor. Not to mention that anyone (me) who protested the action in general got painted with the 'religious zealot' brush whether they were speaking from a religious viewpoint or not.
MY objections are not that they made fun of Christians. My objection is that a very special, wonderful member of this group got hurt by trusting another member of this group and going to a website for a bit of humor, and got kicked in the head by a stupid video that attacked the very thing that is getting her through a very tough point in her life. And everyone here seems to think that's OK.
Paul made a point about sharing a sexist joke making fun of Nurses and how if he was to worry about everyone's feelings about these things that he could never share these "funny" jokes. Er, sorry Paul but that's exactly the point. Many of us don't think that's acceptable material to be sharing in this newsgroup. If we stop and think before we share something that may be offensive or hurtful, maybe there will be a lot less hurt feelings and a lot more trust.
I don't want to fight with anyone. I'm disappointed that my attempt to communicate something important to me was met with such derision and misundertanding. I'm disappointed that the heads in this group that I considered the coolest and most able to access a situation and understand someone's concerns misinterpreted what I tried to say.... I'm also very disappointed that my concerns have been dismissed as emotional over-reactions and trivialized the way they were.
mostly I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' for Cody to share that video to begin with. He had to know that some folks were going to be very upset with it. And if he really had his head so far up his a.s that he didn't realize it, at the very least he could be accountable and apologize to the folks that he hurt, instead of spewing more ugliness trying to defend his behavior.
I know I'm spinning my wheels and wasting my efforts here :) But Spidey and Paul did comment and I hope they understand a bit better where I am coming from.
Sara
Cody - 06 Mar 2006 16:36 GMT I don't want to fight with anyone. <<<
Then drop it.
Cody
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Sara - 06 Mar 2006 16:54 GMT > I don't want to fight with anyone. <<< > > Then drop it. > > Cody yes, your highness.
I hear and obey.
Cody - 06 Mar 2006 17:18 GMT >> I don't want to fight with anyone. <<< >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I hear and obey. Now, that's more like it! <vbg>
Cody
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Gordo Mondragon - 06 Mar 2006 18:32 GMT [...]
> My > objection is that a very special, wonderful member of this group [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > through a very tough point in her life. And everyone here seems > to think that's OK. That's a highly unfair characterization. I think that most people are struggling with the conflict between the hurt that someone expressed and what can be reasonably done about it.
My personal take on it is that I'm sorry she felt hurt, that I'm willing to accommodate other people's beliefs and have actively worked to do that here, but that what she and you are asking for is beyond accommodation and respect, it's strict adherence to specific religious rules.
That, I think, is an unreasonable request. I can be saddened that someone is hurt when these requests are not met but I think that because of the unreasonableness the hurt is not my responsibility.
> If > we stop and think before we share something that may be offensive > or hurtful, maybe there will be a lot less hurt feelings and a > lot more trust. Because this group is so diverse it's not possible to always know what's going to offend someone, so the only thing to do to get what you want is to not post anything but technical information.
The reality is that to get the sort of overall supportive environment that has done a lot of people a lot of good here you can't be that restrictive. You're going to have to accept that someone, sometime, is going to post something that's going to piss you off unintentionally.
[...]
> mostly I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' for Cody > to share that video to begin with. He had to know that some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hurt, instead of spewing more ugliness trying to defend his > behavior. Well, there you go. If he's not following the the strict religious rules of a religion he doesn't believe in and may not know the strict rules for, he's got his head far up his a.s.
If that's not what you meant, please tell me what I've misunderstood.
Gordo
Mom - 06 Mar 2006 18:56 GMT > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Gordo Gordo,
I love your posts. I often sift through the other's to read yours. Maybe our beliefs are simply similar but you have way of articulating yours in a way that is very unbiased, to the point, and without ridicule or criticism. Thanks.
Mom
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 06 Mar 2006 21:22 GMT Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Mar 6, 2006, 1:56pm (CST+1) From: mom@nospamplease.net (Mom) "Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondragon@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ga_mondragon-692EE2.13325706032006@news-rdr-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com... In article <ecqdnR10EfiqwpHZRVn-pw@wideopenwest.com>, "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote: [...] My objection is that a very special, wonderful member of this group got hurt by trusting another member of this group and going to a website for a bit of humor, and got kicked in the head by a stupid video that attacked the very thing that is getting her through a very tough point in her life. And everyone here seems to think that's OK. That's a highly unfair characterization. I think that most people are struggling with the conflict between the hurt that someone expressed and what can be reasonably done about it. My personal take on it is that I'm sorry she felt hurt, that I'm willing to accommodate other people's beliefs and have actively worked to do that here, but that what she and you are asking for is beyond accommodation and respect, it's strict adherence to specific religious rules. That, I think, is an unreasonable request. I can be saddened that someone is hurt when these requests are not met but I think that because of the unreasonableness the hurt is not my responsibility. If we stop and think before we share something that may be offensive or hurtful, maybe there will be a lot less hurt feelings and a lot more trust. Because this group is so diverse it's not possible to always know what's going to offend someone, so the only thing to do to get what you want is to not post anything but technical information. The reality is that to get the sort of overall supportive environment that has done a lot of people a lot of good here you can't be that restrictive. You're going to have to accept that someone, sometime, is going to post something that's going to piss you off unintentionally. [...] mostly I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' for Cody to share that video to begin with. He had to know that some folks were going to be very upset with it. And if he really had his head so far up his a.s that he didn't realize it, at the very least he could be accountable and apologize to the folks that he hurt, instead of spewing more ugliness trying to defend his behavior. Well, there you go. If he's not following the the strict religious rules of a religion he doesn't believe in and may not know the strict rules for, he's got his head far up his a.s. If that's not what you meant, please tell me what I've misunderstood. Gordo Gordo, I love your posts. I often sift through the other's to read yours. Maybe our beliefs are simply similar but you have way of articulating yours in a way that is very unbiased, to the point, and without ridicule or criticism. Thanks. Mom /////////////// So you don't read my posts, eh? :-) elmo
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile
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Mom - 06 Mar 2006 22:05 GMT > Re: It's not about religion > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > So you don't read my posts, eh? :-) > elmo Who loves ya baby?
Mom
> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 04:28 GMT Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Mar 6, 2006, 5:05pm (CST+1) From: mom@nospamplease.net (Mom) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:21272-440CA81D-174@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net... Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Mar 6, 2006, 1:56pm (CST+1) From: mom@nospamplease.net (Mom) "Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondragon@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ga_mondragon-692EE2.13325706032006@news-rdr-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com... In article <ecqdnR10EfiqwpHZRVn-pw@wideopenwest.com>, "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote: [...] My objection is that a very special, wonderful member of this group got hurt by trusting another member of this group and going to a website for a bit of humor, and got kicked in the head by a stupid video that attacked the very thing that is getting her through a very tough point in her life. And everyone here seems to think that's OK. That's a highly unfair characterization. I think that most people are struggling with the conflict between the hurt that someone expressed and what can be reasonably done about it. My personal take on it is that I'm sorry she felt hurt, that I'm willing to accommodate other people's beliefs and have actively worked to do that here, but that what she and you are asking for is beyond accommodation and respect, it's strict adherence to specific religious rules. That, I think, is an unreasonable request. I can be saddened that someone is hurt when these requests are not met but I think that because of the unreasonableness the hurt is not my responsibility. If we stop and think before we share something that may be offensive or hurtful, maybe there will be a lot less hurt feelings and a lot more trust. Because this group is so diverse it's not possible to always know what's going to offend someone, so the only thing to do to get what you want is to not post anything but technical information. The reality is that to get the sort of overall supportive environment that has done a lot of people a lot of good here you can't be that restrictive. You're going to have to accept that someone, sometime, is going to post something that's going to piss you off unintentionally. [...] mostly I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' for Cody to share that video to begin with. He had to know that some folks were going to be very upset with it. And if he really had his head so far up his a.s that he didn't realize it, at the very least he could be accountable and apologize to the folks that he hurt, instead of spewing more ugliness trying to defend his behavior. Well, there you go. If he's not following the the strict religious rules of a religion he doesn't believe in and may not know the strict rules for, he's got his head far up his a.s. If that's not what you meant, please tell me what I've misunderstood. Gordo Gordo, I love your posts. I often sift through the other's to read yours. Maybe our beliefs are simply similar but you have way of articulating yours in a way that is very unbiased, to the point, and without ridicule or criticism. Thanks. Mom /////////////// So you don't read my posts, eh? :-) elmo Who loves ya baby? Mom ///////////////// My left nut just started twitching! hehe ILYM ahahahahaha!!!!!! elmo
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Waterspider - 06 Mar 2006 20:30 GMT > Ok Spidey, and/or anyone else who might care. <snippage to get to the point>
> I don't understand how my words got so twisted and misinterpreted. > (me) who got painted with the 'religious zealot' brush MY objections. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' I know I'm spinning my > wheels and wasting my efforts Okay, Sara...
Lots of complaints from you about your experience here, so here's my complaint: This group isn't about you, and it isn't about good manners. Your whining that somebody else got a good laugh out of something offensive to you is making *everyone* uncomfortable. You've ignored every reasonable, positive post on the subject. It reminds me how much I detest this Christian superiority moral majority bullshit that you're peddling. People here shouldn't have to pretend they're walking on eggshells, worried that someone is analyzing every post, trying to find something to be offended by. Get over it.
WS <running out of patience>
Sara - 06 Mar 2006 21:02 GMT Ya know Spidey, the one fact that everyone keeps attributing to me that just isn't so is the "so called Christian Morality" issue.
My concerns are about human decency. period. About treating fellow human beings with the respect they deserve.
If Cody worked at Ford Motor company, or ANY major company in the US, and posted that on the internet for fellow employees to 'get a chuckle' from, he'd be severly disciplined, if not fired. It's just NOT acceptable social behavior in any place that I want to be a part of.
Wondering what happens when you totally lose your patience :) but, honestly, not sticking around to find out. you guys have finally totally alienated me, I'm gone. I'll stress over issues that matter, thanks anyway.
Sara
p.s. I thought the whole idea of a support group is that it IS all about me.... and you... and each individual who joins that group and contributes. WE are supposed to be equals, there to give and receive support for the problem we have in common. Sadly, the ASH-C group seems to be about a select few individuals who think they should make the rules and decide who gets to belong to the group and who doesn't. I left this kind of juvenile crap behind in junior high, and I have NO desire to revisit it. In Gordo's immortal words, "So Long".
>> Ok Spidey, and/or anyone else who might care. > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > WS > <running out of patience> Thip - 06 Mar 2006 21:36 GMT > Wondering what happens when you totally lose your patience :) > but, honestly, not sticking around to find out. you guys have finally [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > of juvenile crap behind in junior high, and I have NO desire to revisit > it. In Gordo's immortal words, "So Long". Hold the door, I'm right behind you.
Love you all, and thanks for the support and help you've given me over the years.
dortski - 06 Mar 2006 23:00 GMT >> Hold the door, I'm right behind you. > > Love you all, and thanks for the support and help you've given me over the > years. Thip....not you too! This is such a heartbreak, I am stunned, truly stunned! Very sad too. Please don't give up on us Thipper and Gordo. I wish my head wasn't pounding so badly so I could make more sense. Misunderstandings happen, it's life. Can everyone please calm down and try to find the love that is shared here more often than the misunderstandings?
I gotta lay down now...ouch.
dort
Paul - 06 Mar 2006 23:25 GMT On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:36:43 -0500, "Thip" <me@privacy.net>, in message ID <473ob1FdatsfU1@individual.net>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>Hold the door, I'm right behind you. > >Love you all, and thanks for the support and help you've given me over the >years. The exit from this group is a revolving door. You may get stuck in it and re -enter :-) Hope to see you back Thip. Let us know how you get on sometime, won't you?
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 04:23 GMT Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Mar 6, 2006, 4:36pm (CST+1) From: me@privacy.net (Thip) "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:aPSdnXP9I7D5PpHZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@wideopenwest.com... Wondering what happens when you totally lose your patience :) but, honestly, not sticking around to find out. you guys have finally totally alienated me, I'm gone. I'll stress over issues that matter, thanks anyway. Sara p.s. I thought the whole idea of a support group is that it IS all about me.... and you... and each individual who joins that group and contributes. WE are supposed to be equals, there to give and receive support for the problem we have in common. Sadly, the ASH-C group seems to be about a select few individuals who think they should make the rules and decide who gets to belong to the group and who doesn't. I left this kind of juvenile crap behind in junior high, and I have NO desire to revisit it. In Gordo's immortal words, "So Long". Hold the door, I'm right behind you. Love you all, and thanks for the support and help you've given me over the years. //////////// Dammmit, Thipper!!! Why now? Cody's been spewing his crap for years!! Don't blame everyone else for this stuff. If you want to blame someone, don't blame the people who know and love you. f.ck Cody, and f.ck the horse he rode in on. We need you.....and you need us. Get it? Much love, tequilla sunrise elmo
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elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 04:12 GMT That's bullshit, Sara! I'm a strong believer in God, but believe He has a sense of humor too. Otherwise, He wouldn't have let us have a good fart when we need one. Get over it!!! Father Elmo POOOOOOOOOTTT!! /////////////// Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Mar 6, 2006, 4:02pm (CST+1) From: puffler@wowway.com (Sara) Ya know Spidey, the one fact that everyone keeps attributing to me that just isn't so is the "so called Christian Morality" issue. My concerns are about human decency. period. About treating fellow human beings with the respect they deserve. If Cody worked at Ford Motor company, or ANY major company in the US, and posted that on the internet for fellow employees to 'get a chuckle' from, he'd be severly disciplined, if not fired. It's just NOT acceptable social behavior in any place that I want to be a part of. Wondering what happens when you totally lose your patience :) but, honestly, not sticking around to find out. you guys have finally totally alienated me, I'm gone. I'll stress over issues that matter, thanks anyway. Sara p.s. I thought the whole idea of a support group is that it IS all about me.... and you... and each individual who joins that group and contributes. WE are supposed to be equals, there to give and receive support for the problem we have in common. Sadly, the ASH-C group seems to be about a select few individuals who think they should make the rules and decide who gets to belong to the group and who doesn't. I left this kind of juvenile crap behind in junior high, and I have NO desire to revisit it. In Gordo's immortal words, "So Long". "Waterspider" <waterspider@moonlight.net> wrote in message news:120p89tto0dafac@corp.supernews.com... "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com> wrote in message news:ecqdnR10EfiqwpHZRVn-pw@wideopenwest.com... Ok Spidey, and/or anyone else who might care. <snippage to get to the point> I don't understand how my words got so twisted and misinterpreted. (me) who got painted with the 'religious zealot' brush MY objections. everyone here seems to think that's OK. Many of us don't think that's acceptable I'm disappointed that ... was met with ... derision and misundertanding. I'm disappointed that the heads in this group .. misinterpreted what I tried to say.... I'm disappointed that my concerns have been dismissed as emotional over-reactions and trivialized . I'm just appalled that you all think it was 'ok' I know I'm spinning my wheels and wasting my efforts Okay, Sara... Lots of complaints from you about your experience here, so here's my complaint: This group isn't about you, and it isn't about good manners. Your whining that somebody else got a good laugh out of something offensive to you is making *everyone* uncomfortable. You've ignored every reasonable, positive post on the subject. It reminds me how much I detest this Christian superiority moral majority bullshit that you're peddling. People here shouldn't have to pretend they're walking on eggshells, worried that someone is analyzing every post, trying to find something to be offended by. Get over it. WS <running out of patience>
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Mom - 06 Mar 2006 22:19 GMT >> Ok Spidey, and/or anyone else who might care. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > WS > <running out of patience> Unfortunately there is no "Kansas".
Mom
Paul - 06 Mar 2006 23:17 GMT On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:08:27 -0500, "Sara" <puffler@wowway.com>, in message ID <ecqdnR10EfiqwpHZRVn-pw@wideopenwest.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>These folks react to that post, protesting the act, and asking >that he refrain from doing that again. Does he say "oops, you're [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >response from the support group, defending/enabling Cody's >initial action. If other people (myself included) say that they thought the video was funny, it does not invalidate your opinion/reaction unless you choose to let it. Have others tried to walk all over/invalidate your opinions in the past when you were less able to speak up for yourself? I know I had a lot of problems in that area - just guessing that it may have been like that for you sometime. Well I've got news for you. ****Your opinion is valid**** even though it differs from mine.
Could it be that you may have been trying to invalidate others' opinions because the found it funny and you didn't. Just a thought. I'm NOT having a go at you here. Just trying to chat. Please insert a caring tone into my message rather than a harsh critical one (this can be so hard to convey in a text only medium).
Paul - 06 Mar 2006 23:23 GMT On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 23:17:51 +0000, Paul <dontspamme@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk>, in message ID <cagp021t6opggjuhhl49r959talrck2brc@4ax.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:
>If other people (myself included) say that they thought the video was >funny, it does not invalidate your opinion/reaction unless you choose [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I'm NOT having a go at you here. Just trying to chat. Please insert >a caring tone into my message rather than a hars Oops !! I posted this before I read Sara's goodbye post. Ah well. Maybe she will read it anyway even if she no longer wishes to participate.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 04:39 GMT I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give it up for the sake of the group. I'll be gentle.....or rough.....however you like it best......in the name of the NG. ahahahahahahaha!!!! Elmo
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kjoh - 07 Mar 2006 04:55 GMT ahahaha! baby baby why you been gone so long?
:-) kj "I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give it up for the sake of the group. I'll be gentle.....or rough.....however you like it best......in the name of the NG. ahahahahahahaha!!!!" Elmo
dortski - 07 Mar 2006 12:28 GMT > I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have > sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give > it up for the sake of the group. I'll be gentle.....or > rough.....however you like it best......in the name of the NG. > ahahahahahahaha!!!! > Elmo Not now Elmo....I have a headache....
dort
dortski - 07 Mar 2006 13:08 GMT >> I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have >> sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > dort Hey wait....does that mean you want everyone to come back but me?
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 14:47 GMT Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 7, 2006, 1:08pm (CST+6) From: dwilde1@austin.rr.com (dortski) "dortski" <dwilde1@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:Y%ePf.415$wr.99@tornado.texas.rr.com... <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4238-440D0E74-884@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net... I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give it up for the sake of the group. I'll be gentle.....or rough.....however you like it best......in the name of the NG. ahahahahahahaha!!!! Elmo Not now Elmo....I have a headache.... dort Hey wait....does that mean you want everyone to come back but me? /////////// Of course not! We need you here. You still have a headache? :-) elmo
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elmoemerson@webtv.net - 07 Mar 2006 14:43 GMT Re: It's not about religion Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 7, 2006, 12:28pm (CST+6) From: dwilde1@austin.rr.com (dortski) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:4238-440D0E74-884@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net... I'll bet I could get everyone to come back and relax if Dort would have sex with me. That is......... everyone but Dort. Come on, Dort. Give it up for the sake of the group. I'll be gentle.....or rough.....however you like it best......in the name of the NG. ahahahahahahaha!!!! Elmo Not now Elmo....I have a headache.... dort //////// Thanks for not taking me too seriously, Dort. :-) elmo
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swargler@yahoo.com - 07 Mar 2006 03:46 GMT Well I'm thinking about how the muslim world reacted when they found out about the Swedish funnies on Mohammed. Thats how it goes. Cody has always had his say about Christian religions and I don't really have a problem with that myself. If someone's belief is strong they shouldn't feel threatened by such humor. You know, as far as I'm concerned, it is all just a load of bullshit. But bullshit can get people killed. That's the way it goes.
kjoh - 07 Mar 2006 04:42 GMT Hey Swargler I'm thrilled that you don't have a problem with Cody, but people facing death don't need their faith attacked in a support group, even if it was just a lame attempt at cuteness. Get real. kj
Swarger: (?!) Cody has always had his say about Christian religions and I don't really have a problem with that myself.
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