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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / December 2005

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Mission Completed: Found The WMDs

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Alan - 26 Nov 2005 14:37 GMT
Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against the
terrorists without fear or hesitation as is my duty to the people. I can now
proudly announce that I have finally found the WMDs.

I think this is very good news for most of us, but not if you live near
Jefferson Proving Ground in Indiana, Clonie New York, Jonesborough Tennessee,
or Concord Massachusetts. I myself feel particularly lucky because the woman
from Bama wanted me to move to Tenessee.

Here is the missing WMDs:

http://www.nukewatch.com/du/index.html

Alan

"Can't you see we're still here,
Can't you see we're still here,
Singing loud; Singing clear,
We shall not go under,
We're still here."

Nemesis Peace Centre

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/protector.html

Abuse of Women and Children

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/

Nemesis News

http://lordcerneabbas.blogspot.com/

Absolute Anarchy

http://lordcerneabbastoo.blogspot.com/

http://www.john-lennon.com/
Alan - 26 Nov 2005 15:24 GMT
> Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against the
> terrorists without fear or hesitation as is my duty to the people. I can now
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> or Concord Massachusetts. I myself feel particularly lucky because the woman
> from Bama wanted me to move to Tenessee.

It would appear that to the above list I need to add Minneapolis, Minnesota.

> Here is the missing WMDs:
>
> http://www.nukewatch.com/du/index.html

http://www.nukewatch.com/du/factsheet.html

I do hope that I have done my duty well.

Alan

"Can't you see we're still here,
Can't you see we're still here,
Singing loud; Singing clear,
We shall not go under,
We're still here."

Nemesis Peace Centre

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/protector.html

Abuse of Women and Children

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/

Nemesis News

http://lordcerneabbas.blogspot.com/

Absolute Anarchy

http://lordcerneabbastoo.blogspot.com/

http://www.john-lennon.com/
Alan - 26 Nov 2005 16:32 GMT
> > Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against the
> > terrorists without fear or hesitation as is my duty to the people. I can
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> I do hope that I have done my duty well.

Oh, and of course, we must add in any serving military personnel too.

Would you like an explanation of the Chromosomes and how they relate to genetic
mutations, because I do know that some of you think science is so unimportant.

What it means is that Mom had better take good care of Katie and keep her away
from any soldier boys, or her chances of having any normal healthy grandchildren
go down to about zero, and that goes for anybody else who sent their child off
to fight for Satan Incorporated.

I do hope that I have not ruined anybody's holiday weekend.

Alan

"Can't you see we're still here,
Can't you see we're still here,
Singing loud; Singing clear,
We shall not go under,
We're still here."

Nemesis Peace Centre

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/protector.html

Abuse of Women and Children

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/

Nemesis News

http://lordcerneabbas.blogspot.com/

Absolute Anarchy

http://lordcerneabbastoo.blogspot.com/

http://www.john-lennon.com/
Ray - 26 Nov 2005 16:52 GMT
Certainly haven't ruined mine. I hear propaganda all the time so the rubbish
you're trying to spew out is no different! I have an idea, if you hate
President Bush and the fundamental ideals that this country was founded on
so much why not move to someplace more in line with your "thinking"... like
Russia!!! (I'd even contribute for the plane ticket)

>> > Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against
>> > the
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Brian - 26 Nov 2005 17:07 GMT

Looks like another fool that thinks if you hate Bush then you must hate your
country.We'll you can put me in that group then Alan.Because I hate Bush and
everything that he and his cronies stand for!!!!If I believed in a anti
christ I'd be certain that Bush is a pawn for or maybe even the anti christ
himself.But I don't go for that stuff.

BrianD

> Certainly haven't ruined mine. I hear propaganda all the time so the
> rubbish you're trying to spew out is no different! I have an idea, if you
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>>
>> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Waterspider - 26 Nov 2005 20:05 GMT
> Certainly haven't ruined mine. I hear propaganda all the time so the
> rubbish you're trying to spew out is no different! I have an idea, if you
> hate President Bush and the fundamental ideals that this country was
> founded on so much why not move to someplace more in line with your
> "thinking"... like Russia!!! (I'd even contribute for the plane ticket)

Hi Ray,

I like most of the American people I've met (just like I like most of the
people I've met from all other countries), but I think Bush's handlers have
created a monster, and I think that fundamentalist ideals are just about as
scary as the Bush administration.

But I don't want to go to Russia, so would you consider chipping in to send
me on an Alaska cruise from Vancouver?

<smiling sweetly>

Waterspider
Gordo Mondragon - 26 Nov 2005 22:23 GMT
> Certainly haven't ruined mine. I hear propaganda all the time so the rubbish
> you're trying to spew out is no different! I have an idea, if you hate
> President Bush and the fundamental ideals that this country was founded on
> so much why not move to someplace more in line with your "thinking"... like
> Russia!!! (I'd even contribute for the plane ticket)

I love the fundamental ideals that this country was founded on, and I
despair at the corruption of those ideals by our current administration.

I don't think the founders of this country would think it was a good
thing that it was so easy to buy legislation and that the people running
the government were sharing in the profits of the companies they were
making laws to support.
Alan - 26 Nov 2005 16:56 GMT
> > > Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against the
> > > terrorists without fear or hesitation as is my duty to the people. I can
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> I do hope that I have not ruined anybody's holiday weekend.

And do please continue to pretend that I don't exist, because not only are my
children O.K. but I also might know something about..........

*snigger*

He who laughs last, lasts the loudest *feral* *cave* dwellers*

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/
Paul2 - 26 Nov 2005 16:59 GMT
Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the World.
Pray, do tell...

Paul2

>> > > Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against
>> > > the
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Alan - 26 Nov 2005 17:17 GMT
> Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the World.
> Pray, do tell...

The woman from Alabama. She even the name of a real famous person from the
South. She's good and she knows how to make people happy. I've been telling her
that for ever. And I promise that all the men would vote for her as long as
their wives didn't know.

Firebird

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/index.html

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Waterspider - 26 Nov 2005 20:09 GMT
> Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the
> World.
> Pray, do tell...

I know this question was for Alan, but I'd like to offer my suggestion.
How bout someone with a conscience and a modicum of respect for human life?
Surely there's a few of them out there.

Waterspider
Paul2 - 26 Nov 2005 21:09 GMT
Well, lets just agree to disagree.
One man's Lincoln is another man's murderer.

>> Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the
>> World.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Waterspider
Waterspider - 26 Nov 2005 21:21 GMT
> Well, lets just agree to disagree.
> One man's Lincoln is another man's murderer.

And that, I have to agree with!

:)

Waterspider
cactus jammies - 26 Nov 2005 21:47 GMT
Paul is an anarchist, according to what I have seen.  So in his case, the
person who would run the most powerful country in the world question is a
bit of a mind twister.  An anarchist (anarcho syndicalist, not an Ayn
Rand-ie) may be of the opinion that in actuality, the rights and
responsibilities of power should be as evenly distributed as possible, to
all people in the collective, according to their skills.  Sound familiar?
That is the obverse or complement to the "each according to their needs.."
line from Marx.  The collective or commonwealth of cooperatives is the basis
of how one small neightbourhood interacts with the next one, so far as
commercial enterprise or barter trade system is concerned.  So there is an
organizational chart, and the people who function as 'management' or the
persons running the the most powerful country in the world would therefore
in Paul's rhetoric, be the people who turn up to do so at any given time or
in any given number or from any given activity within the country.  Just to
keep things straight.  Right Paul?

Cactus Jammes
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Far be it from anyone to put Paul in any setting but the one he chooses.

>> Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the
>> World.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Waterspider
Paul2 - 26 Nov 2005 22:17 GMT
Quote Cactus PJ's.."Paul is an anarchist," Hehe, my 16 year old would think
I was sooo cool if I really was a Anarchist..
Honestly, not even close.
I think you got caught in some kind of verbal diatribe
vortex...........extend a hand, I'll help pull ya out.

Paul2
> Paul is an anarchist, according to what I have seen.  So in his case, the
> person who would run the most powerful country in the world question is a
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>>
>> Waterspider
cactus jammies - 26 Nov 2005 22:28 GMT
Hey Paul2
shhhh   it was a trap  maybe the other Paul won't notice.  the message was
designed to draw in anarchists who don't know they're actually not
anarchists.  I'm good at spinning mind traps, by the way.  even if most the
time its only me who knows what Im up to and even then sometimes nobody
really knows.

know what I mean?

cactus jammies   off to get furnace filters and 15 MGDs in cans for the grey
cup tomorrow.  go lions go (next season)

> Quote Cactus PJ's.."Paul is an anarchist," Hehe, my 16 year old would
> think I was sooo cool if I really was a Anarchist..
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>>
>>> Waterspider
Doug - 27 Nov 2005 04:49 GMT
> Hey Paul2
> shhhh   it was a trap  maybe the other Paul won't notice.  the message was
> designed to draw in anarchists who don't know they're actually not
> anarchists.  I'm good at spinning mind traps, by the way.  even if most
> the time its only me who knows what Im up to and even then sometimes
> nobody really knows.

That's just mental self-manipulation/masturbation.    nothing new.    Doug
Waterspider - 27 Nov 2005 05:12 GMT
>> Hey Paul2
>> shhhh   it was a trap  maybe the other Paul won't notice.  the message
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> That's just mental self-manipulation/masturbation.    nothing new.    Doug
Um, I always thought masturbation was self-gratification. Self-manipulation
sounds really weird...

WS
cactus jammies - 27 Nov 2005 05:26 GMT
I like your jokes too, Doug.  You know what I mean after all.

8-P

cactus jammies -------  Grey Cup ready
                         sampling MGDs and have blessed and reinstituted
                         hookah for festivities  yay!
                         no peyote buttons, though.  had a kind of
southwestern
                         chipotle dip in mind.....chilis and chocolate
mmmmm ha!
                         and garlic to ward off pandemics and loose at the
leash
                         black holes.
                         what are you doing around these parts, doug?
You're
                         a wee bit slippery, ain't ya...eh?

--------------------------  
ahem --------------------------------------------

>> Hey Paul2
>> shhhh   it was a trap  maybe the other Paul won't notice.  the message
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> That's just mental self-manipulation/masturbation.    nothing new.    Doug
Paul - 27 Nov 2005 07:27 GMT
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:28:10 GMT, "cactus jammies"
<cactusjammies@hotmail.com>, in message ID
<_j5if.135517$yS6.24445@clgrps12>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>Hey Paul2
>shhhh   it was a trap  maybe the other Paul won't notice.  the message was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>know what I mean?

Not sure if you mean me or not but I do have certain misgivings about
the degree of social engineering pushed onto us by governments in
order to further their agendas. I also have a severe mistrust of
politicians generally. I believe in live and let live without people
infringing each others human rights  I'm not sure that would make me
an anarchist though.  Indeed, without some kind of organising, many of
the positive social changes that have come about may not have
happened.
As the oil starts running dry, there will be enough anarchy around
without trying to make it happen anyway.  Life as we know it is
unsustainable.  It may well start to impact within our lifetimes -
indeed, we may well be seeing the start of it.  In the longterm
though, this major shift may be necessary in order to preserve some
human life on this planet as too many people seems to mean a poisoned,
polluted environment.
In principle, this planet is no different to the fishpond scenario.
Remove some fish and the others grow bigger.  Put some in and some of
them die.
There are ways to postpone the problem but the fundamental fact is
that this planet cannot indefinitely support 6+billion people living
in this manner.  I doubt that the transition will be bloodless either.

Signature

Paul

Use the reply by email facility in your
newsreader to send email

Waterspider - 27 Nov 2005 18:35 GMT
"Paul" <dontspamme@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk> wrote >

> Not sure if you mean me or not but I do have certain misgivings about
> the degree of social engineering pushed onto us by governments in
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> that this planet cannot indefinitely support 6+billion people living
> in this manner.  I doubt that the transition will be bloodless either.

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

WS
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 27 Nov 2005 14:18 GMT

Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2005, 12:09pm (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
"Paul2" <emperorwoo@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:i-2dnbzlycXmCRXeRVn-tg@rogers.com...
Hey Alan, who would you suggest run the most powerful country in the
World.
Pray, do tell...
I know this question was for Alan, but I'd like to offer my suggestion.
How bout someone with a conscience and a modicum of respect for human
life? Surely there's a few of them out there.
Waterspider
////////////
Are you suggesting I should run for office?
ahahahahahhaha!!!
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Alan - 27 Nov 2005 14:38 GMT
>  
> Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs  
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> ahahahahahhaha!!!
> elmo

Apart from the woman in Bama there is this guy

www.karlschwarz2008.com

But I understand that he has as terrible a reputation as me.

I'd go with the woman from Bama. She really fixed all that was wrong with me :-)

Firebird

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/index.html

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Waterspider - 27 Nov 2005 18:37 GMT
> Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ahahahahahhaha!!!
> elmo

Hell, yeah! I'll vote for you --oops, I guess I can't vote in Missouri. How
bout running for Prime Minister of Canada?

Spidey
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 28 Nov 2005 12:58 GMT

Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Nov 27, 2005, 10:37am (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9080-4389C01A-760@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2005, 12:09pm (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
"Paul2" <emperorwoo@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:i-2dnbzlycXmCRXeRVn-tg@rogers.com... Hey Alan, who would you
suggest run the most powerful country in the World.
Pray, do tell...
I know this question was for Alan, but I'd like to offer my suggestion.
How bout someone with a conscience and a modicum of respect for human
life? Surely there's a few of them out there. Waterspider
////////////
Are you suggesting I should run for office? ahahahahahhaha!!!
elmo
Hell, yeah! I'll vote for you --oops, I guess I can't vote in Missouri.
How bout running for Prime Minister of Canada?
Spidey
/////////
What about the language barrier?  I don't speak Canadian.  :-)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Waterspider - 28 Nov 2005 14:07 GMT
> Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> What about the language barrier?  I don't speak Canadian.  :-)
> elmo

Neither did Prime Minister Jean Chretien and BC Premier Ujal Dosangh; it's
not a problem :)

Spider of the Water
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Nov 2005 14:04 GMT

Re: Vote for Elmo!  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005, 6:07am (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13799-438AFF05-729@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net...
Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Nov 27, 2005, 10:37am (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9080-4389C01A-760@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net... Re: Mission
Completed: Found The WMDs
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2005, 12:09pm (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
"Paul2" <emperorwoo@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:i-2dnbzlycXmCRXeRVn-tg@rogers.com... Hey Alan, who would you
suggest run the most powerful country in the World. Pray, do tell...
I know this question was for Alan, but I'd like to offer my suggestion.
How bout someone with a conscience and a modicum of respect for human
life? Surely there's a few of them out there. Waterspider
////////////
Are you suggesting I should run for office? ahahahahahhaha!!! elmo
Hell, yeah! I'll vote for you --oops, I guess I can't vote in Missouri.
How bout running for Prime Minister of Canada? Spidey
/////////
What about the language barrier? I don't speak Canadian. :-) elmo
Neither did Prime Minister Jean Chretien and BC Premier Ujal Dosangh;
it's not a problem :)
Spider of the Water
/////////////
Then I'm running!  I'll start a new political party and call it the
'Beaver Party'.  BC bud for all!!!  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Waterspider - 29 Nov 2005 18:39 GMT
> From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
> <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> 'Beaver Party'.  BC bud for all!!!
> ////////////
You may not have to start a new party.
We already have the Marijuana Party, check it out:
http://www.marijuanaparty.com
and the BC Marijuana Party
http://bcmarijuanaparty.com/
There's a few other pro-weed parties out there, but these are the biggest
two.
Oh yeah, and most of the other parties support decriminalization if not full
legalization of cannabis.
So why isn't it legal yet in BC Canada at least?
Gee, Doc, I dunno... and they always told me this was a democracy.

Spidey
Michael Cody - 29 Nov 2005 19:45 GMT
>>From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
>><elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Spidey

Neither the government nor the traffickers want pot to be legal is why.

Cody
cactus jammies - 29 Nov 2005 20:05 GMT
The government missed the boat to rational decisions, Cody, they and
business have shifted from repression mode to oppression mode, or haven't
you noticed?  There are some places in the world, however, where the
realistic benefits of bud far outweigh whatever graven images are stacked
against it's use.  In Canada, the act to decriminalize marijuana possession
was passed in parliament however the royal assent has to come after the
upper house (the profunctory senate) has debated (and passed) the bill so it
can go onto the governor general for her signature and proclomation into
law.  Fact is, most courts in Canada have long been dismissing simple
possession charges right at the preliminary stages, and unless you are the
Leader of the Marijuana Party like Mark Emery, you will be ignored.  The
police don't bother unless there is a complaint or it is a major grow op
with hells angels ties or something.  I have heard it is tolerated the same
in Europe, but not in the Far East.

cactus jammies

"Michael Cody" <nospam@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote > Neither the government nor
the traffickers want pot to be legal is why.

> Cody
Waterspider - 29 Nov 2005 21:51 GMT
>>>From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
>>><elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Neither the government nor the traffickers want pot to be legal is why.

I think our government (Canadaian) is pretty much in favour of it, but they
suffer strong opposition pressure from our Bush buddy down south. Our
politicians would love to pull the tax revenue into their coffers, but
you're certainly right about the dealers and growers (it would be a disaster
for them). I conservatively estimated a couple of years back that it would
take nearly a million dollars, a year, out of the economy of Pender Harbour,
pop. 2,500. Economically speaking, it wouldn't be disasterous for us because
it's our biggest industry. The growers are great; they all shop locally and
they all pay cash :)

Spidey
Michael Cody - 02 Dec 2005 14:45 GMT
>>>>From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
>>>><elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> I think our government (Canadaian) is pretty much in favour of it, but they
> suffer strong opposition pressure from our Bush buddy down south.

Your politicians lie. Where do you think the large fines for illegal
drug trafficking goes?

> Our
> politicians would love to pull the tax revenue into their coffers,

They are already getting money from the activity, both legally and
illegally.

> but
> you're certainly right about the dealers and growers (it would be a disaster
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Spidey

Like the blacksmith of olde, if it's legal, the growers and dealers will
just have to get another job or open a cannabis cafe.

Cody
Waterspider - 03 Dec 2005 00:24 GMT
>>>>>Then I'm running!  I'll start a new political party and call it the
>>>>>'Beaver Party'.  BC bud for all!!!
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Your politicians lie.

Of course they do (everyone has lying politicians), but this isn't their
official statement on the issue, it's my knowledge of how things work up
here.

Where do you think the large fines for illegal
> drug trafficking goes?

Certainly not in the pockets of the politicians. Most of it goes to the
police.

>> Our politicians would love to pull the tax revenue into their coffers,
>
> They are already getting money from the activity, both legally and
> illegally.

Maybe, but they'd get one heck of a lot more if it was legalized. That would
give them full control of every level of the business, but mind you we'll
never see it exported so that will stay in the hands of those who already
own it (mostly organized crime).

>> but you're certainly right about the dealers and growers (it would be a
>> disaster for them). I conservatively estimated a couple of years back
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Like the blacksmith of olde, if it's legal, the growers and dealers will
> just have to get another job or open a cannabis cafe.

In an area like this, neither is possible. Jobs are scarce and a cannabis
cafe would quickly go bankrupt because there's not enough population to
support it.

I'd like to see it legalized to get rid of the criminal-behaviour stigma
associated with toking, but for the health of the local economy it's better
off as it is.

Spidey <looking forward to spring and planting a few pretty ones in the
garden>
kjoh - 03 Dec 2005 01:17 GMT
>Spidey wrote:
>I'd like to see it legalized to get rid of the >criminal-behaviour stigma

>associated with toking, but for the health of >the local economy it's
better off as it is.

>Spidey <looking forward to spring and planting a >few pretty ones in the
garden>

Well hey Spidey, that sure brings pleasant spring images to mind.  I'm a
serious amateur gardener of every sort.  I'm happy to remind everbody that
winter solstice is just around the bend and the days will soon start
getting longer! About 20 more days:)

Kathy
Waterspider - 03 Dec 2005 03:02 GMT
> >Spidey wrote:
>>I'd like to see it legalized to get rid of the >criminal-behaviour stigma
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> winter solstice is just around the bend and the days will soon start
> getting longer! About 20 more days:)

Hello from another amateur gardner! We have totally different climates and
probably grow quite different plants, but the pleasure is the same
everywhere.

I spent most of my treatment in my garden. I'd stumble outside, wander a
bit, sit on the ground, have a toke, pluck weeds, sort stones, take macro
pics of flowers and bugs and get lost in my own little world that took me
miles away from the Evil Drugs.

Got a Vessey's Seeds catalogue in the mail a couple of days ago, and I'm
putting together an order. For the first time, they have datura and papaver
somniferum seeds; these aren't available in local nurseries but I've always
wanted to grow them (not for the high, just cuz they're interesting plants).
In the meantime, it's clean out the greenhouse and get it ready for planting
seeds.

Waterspider
kjoh - 03 Dec 2005 03:57 GMT
>Spidey says:
>I spent most of my treatment in my garden. I'd >stumble outside, wander a

>bit, sit on the ground, have a toke, pluck >weeds, sort stones, take
macro
>pics of flowers and bugs and get lost in my own >little world that took
me
>miles away from the Evil Drugs.

Hey Ho Spidey.  I could say just the same!  We can while away Jan and Feb
discussing seed catalogs and what to order.  This fall I just managed to
get some crocus and garlic bulbs in.  It'll be heaven when they start to
show. There are lots of northwest species that will grow here.  I like to
try my hand at propagating montana native plants from seeds and cuttings.
I actually got paid for that for a few years.  I worked in a native plant
nursery in Glacier National Park, propagating natives for restoration
projects. Beautiful work.  And I do love to grow Papaver somniferum (in
the interest of symbolic protest of course - save the species!).  Have you
ever tackled Brugmansia? It used to be in the Datura family I think.  

You must have uncovered the work of Thomas Hobbs (Shocking Beauty) and Dan
Hinkley (Heronswood Nursery)?  If not, do google them up!

Cheerio to you
kj
Gordo Mondragon - 03 Dec 2005 18:24 GMT
In article
<2cc1f3ba5306287995162e3519b5993e@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>,

[...]

> Hey Ho Spidey.  I could say just the same!  We can while away Jan and Feb
> discussing seed catalogs and what to order.  This fall I just managed to
> get some crocus and garlic bulbs in.  It'll be heaven when they start to
> show.

I planted saffron crocus this fall and they immediately came up and we
clipped off some saffron threads,  but my partner's mother "cleaned up"
the kitchen when she was here and threw them away.  So we won't know
until next year.

Have you grown garlic before?  I planted some last fall and it came up
fine but it really wasn't any more special than what I got at the store.  
I even planted the hottest/strongest versions I could find.

> Have you
> ever tackled Brugmansia? It used to be in the Datura family I think.  

I have a friend who grows Brugs.  Big hassle in this part of the county
to harden them off and bring them inside for the winter, but they're
amazing all summer.

G
Waterspider - 04 Dec 2005 00:22 GMT
> In article
> <2cc1f3ba5306287995162e3519b5993e@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the kitchen when she was here and threw them away.  So we won't know
> until next year.

Poor man's saffron, plus good for ye olde liver: turmeric.

> Have you grown garlic before?  I planted some last fall and it came up
> fine but it really wasn't any more special than what I got at the store.
> I even planted the hottest/strongest versions I could find.

I have a garlic patch, but it's unfortunately elephant garlic (given to me
years ago with great raves, so I planted it). It produces like mad but the
taste is bland, not a good quality for garlic. I've been thinking of trying
something with a bit more oomph but it seems that most suppliers provide the
same stuff I've got. If you've had the same experience with stronger
varieties, I'm thinking that maybe home-cultivated garlic just doesn't have
what it takes. Mind you, I've not looked into soil requirements, so maybe
that's the key. Sure is easy to grow, though!

>> Have you
>> ever tackled Brugmansia? It used to be in the Datura family I think.
>
> I have a friend who grows Brugs.  Big hassle in this part of the county
> to harden them off and bring them inside for the winter, but they're
> amazing all summer.

The pics I've seen are gorgeous, and I'm thinking that they may do well on
the Sunshine Coast (mild winters... well, except for this one).

WS
Waterspider - 04 Dec 2005 00:17 GMT
> >Spidey says:
>>I spent most of my treatment in my garden. I'd >stumble outside, wander a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> nursery in Glacier National Park, propagating natives for restoration
> projects. Beautiful work.

I'll bet it was, talk about a dream job! I grow lots of indigenous plants in
my garden (tiger lily, columbine, salal, Oregon grape, sedum) and am
thrilled to have discovered an arbutus tree (I think you guys call them
madrones), about three feet high. I've tried transplanting these buggers for
years but none ever took. This one obviously seeded itself in the perfect
spot.

And I do love to grow Papaver somniferum (in
> the interest of symbolic protest of course - save the species!).  Have you
> ever tackled Brugmansia? It used to be in the Datura family I think.

I'm not familiar with brugmansia, so I googled it. Like datura, it's in the
solanaceae (sp?) family, but then so is the potato. Gorgeous plant tho, from
the pics I saw and I'll certainly try one (growing it, not getting high on
it!) if I can find one.

> You must have uncovered the work of Thomas Hobbs (Shocking Beauty) and Dan
> Hinkley (Heronswood Nursery)?  If not, do google them up!

No, never heard of them, but I will google when I have time. Thanks for the
info,

Waterspider
cactus jammies - 28 Nov 2005 15:02 GMT
You don't have to be born a Canadian citizen to be elected as Prime
Minister.
And yet no Canadian citizen can accept an appointment to peerage or
knighthood
by any foreign royalty.  Such as Conrad Black 'having to give up Canadian
citizenship'
for that of British in order to be knighted "as no mere mortal lord of
beaver pond" or
something like that.

I believe that to be nominated for President in the USA, the person must be
a natural
born American citizen, please correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's what's
keeping
Arnie from seriously running for the prexxy.

So, no Elmo, just make sure that you don't keep library books too long and
you
don't make noise on sunday mornings and you say "eh" and just try and be a
bit
Canadian.
Her Excellency the Right Honourable Ms. Michaëlle Jean.is our new governor
general
(Royal appointment by way of Canadian Government recommendation and approval
was born in Haiti, therefore is a cictuzen of France, but who married a
Canadian who
at one time challenged conventional wisdom in Quebec by discussion the
merits of
Quebec separtism in one of his documentaries.  Sweet.  8-)

cactus jammies

> Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Waterspider - 28 Nov 2005 17:14 GMT
> You don't have to be born a Canadian citizen to be elected as Prime
> Minister.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> cactus jammies

Most of our fellow heppers here don't have any idea how bizzare Canadian
politics really is. Perhaps this is a good thing.

And it snowed *again* last night in Pender Harbour!!!!! So much for global
warming.

Spidey
Alan - 28 Nov 2005 17:21 GMT
> Most of our fellow heppers here don't have any idea how bizzare Canadian
> politics really is. Perhaps this is a good thing.
>
> And it snowed *again* last night in Pender Harbour!!!!! So much for global
> warming.

Hey, it does sound like you are starting to see things my way, so why don't you
take a look at "Ice-Age Now"?

http://www.iceagenow.com/

LOL

Firebird

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/index.html

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Waterspider - 28 Nov 2005 18:19 GMT
>> Most of our fellow heppers here don't have any idea how bizzare Canadian
>> politics really is. Perhaps this is a good thing.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> LOL

Yes, but it's still interesting. I have always had deep suspicions that
Mother Nature is a lot stronger than we give her credit for being and that,
regardless or what we do or don't do, the planet earth will continue
spinning and supporting life. We're just twitchy about the *kind* of life it
may support, i.e. not the human race :)

Spidey
cactus jammies - 28 Nov 2005 18:29 GMT
you got an inside job, spidey?  i'm warming up in the basement right now
after grinding yew and myrtle in the carport for elmo's guitar.  He'd like
the grinding part, I am sure.  btw, really good grey cup, didn't care who
won, but you gotta like Black Eyed Peas bump and grind.

cactus jammies with PJs under skidoo suit
.................................................................
> Yes, but it's still interesting. I have always had deep suspicions that
> Mother Nature is a lot stronger than we give her credit for being and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Spidey
Waterspider - 28 Nov 2005 19:40 GMT
> you got an inside job, spidey?  i'm warming up in the basement right now
> after grinding yew and myrtle in the carport for elmo's guitar.  He'd like
> the grinding part, I am sure.  btw, really good grey cup, didn't care who
> won, but you gotta like Black Eyed Peas bump and grind.
> cactus jammies with PJs under skidoo suit

Grey Cup? Who won? :)

Still snow on the ground this morning, and it's kh-kh-kh-cold out there.
Makes for real snuggly cats though. Yes, I have an "inside job" <g> that
consists mainly of slaving over a hot keyboard.

I remember skidoo suits from New Brunswick. Ugliest garment ever invented,
but they sure were nice and toasty warm! Other than the lobster and Atlantic
salmon, snowmobiling is about the only "down east" thing that I miss.

You're right about Elmo liking the grinding, I'm sure, but most especially
because it's guitar grinding. You know Elmo... anything with a hole in it.

:o

I didn't say that; it was my evil twin.

WS
kjoh - 28 Nov 2005 20:49 GMT
Where is Elmo anyway? Ping Ping Ping, Bud.  Maybe if I haul out my red
galoshes and do a farty little jig? And Juanita.  Not much from you lately
either.  Must be hanging out over in Adrenal World?  Hope you're well
Sweetie (and thanks for the kittykat reply:)

So I got this lovely little bundle of software and music in the mail
today... from just across the Border. Sweet.  I'm just beginning to
unravel it. Many many hours of good vibes here :)

kj
Deportee from the universe
cactus jammies - 28 Nov 2005 21:50 GMT
kayjoe-
KUUU_LLL!  Now you rock in the peebuk!

Tell yer hubby my photobucket guitar pages are under construction like
elmo's guitar.  the chips are flying.  good thing I don't drink, I'd loose
another couple of skids of protoplasm off my fingertips.  I'm wearing winter
weight gloves and sweat pants and pj tops and comfy slippers and I am still
chill ed.  so upstairs to get the long johns.  not yet tie dyed.  sadly.

cj
'''''''''''''

"kjoh"
> So I got this lovely little bundle of software and music in the mail
> today... from just across the Border. Sweet.  I'm just beginning to
> unravel it. Many many hours of good vibes here :)
>
> kj
> Deportee from the universe
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Nov 2005 14:33 GMT

Re: Mission Completed: Elmo parachutes into Ottawa  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005, 3:49pm (CST+1)
From: kjohyayhoo@nospamyahoo.com (kjoh)
Where is Elmo anyway? Ping Ping Ping, Bud. Maybe if I haul out my red
galoshes and do a farty little jig? And Juanita. Not much from you
lately either. Must be hanging out over in Adrenal World? Hope you're
well Sweetie (and thanks for the kittykat reply:)
So I got this lovely little bundle of software and music in the mail
today... from just across the Border. Sweet. I'm just beginning to
unravel it. Many many hours of good vibes here :)
kj
Deportee from the universe
//////////
I'm still here, Kathy!  Just a bit more busy than usual.  About the time
I decided to scale back on activities, I was nominated to sit on the
Board of Directors for the Blues Society of the Ozarks.  The election is
in December and if I get elected, I'll have even more to do.  Am going
to a 3 day party at the end of January in Memphis for the International
Blues Competition held on Beale Street in various clubs.  My ex from
Jersey is flying in to meet me there.  :-)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Nov 2005 14:19 GMT

Re: Mission Completed: Elmo parachutes into Ottawa  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005, 11:40am (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
"cactus jammies" <cactusjammies@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T%Hif.179049$Io.85359@clgrps13...
you got an inside job, spidey? i'm warming up in the basement right now
after grinding yew and myrtle in the carport for elmo's guitar. He'd
like the grinding part, I am sure. btw, really good grey cup, didn't
care who won, but you gotta like Black Eyed Peas bump and grind. cactus
jammies with PJs under skidoo suit
Grey Cup? Who won? :)
Still snow on the ground this morning, and it's kh-kh-kh-cold out there.
Makes for real snuggly cats though. Yes, I have an "inside job" <g> that
consists mainly of slaving over a hot keyboard.
I remember skidoo suits from New Brunswick. Ugliest garment ever
invented, but they sure were nice and toasty warm! Other than the
lobster and Atlantic salmon, snowmobiling is about the only "down east"
thing that I miss.
You're right about Elmo liking the grinding, I'm sure, but most
especially because it's guitar grinding. You know Elmo... anything with
a hole in it.
o
I didn't say that; it was my evil twin.
WS
/////////
Gosh, Spidey!  I'll have to give it a try.  Didn't realize I was that
discerning.(?)  :-)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Waterspider - 29 Nov 2005 18:44 GMT
> Re: Mission Completed: Elmo parachutes into Ottawa
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> discerning.(?)  :-)
> elmo

Ahahahahahahahaha! Now I know why you don't play the accordion!
Spidey
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Nov 2005 14:12 GMT

Re: Mission Completed: Elmo parachutes into Ottawa  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005, 6:29pm (CST+6)
From: cactusjammies@hotmail.com (cactus jammies)
you got an inside job, spidey? i'm warming up in the basement right now
after grinding yew and myrtle in the carport for elmo's guitar. He'd
like the grinding part, I am sure. btw, really good grey cup, didn't
care who won, but you gotta like Black Eyed Peas bump and grind.
cactus jammies with PJs under skidoo suit //////////
yeee hawwww!!!!!  Yep, I like most grinding activities.  Am looking
forward to hearing the sweet sounds of that Dragoncaster.  Watch your
fingers, man!
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
kjoh - 28 Nov 2005 19:30 GMT
>Spidey wrote:
>Yes, but it's still interesting. I have >always .had deep suspicions that

>Mother Nature is a lot stronger than we give her >credit for being and
>that,
>regardless or what we do or don't do, the planet >earth will continue
>spinning and supporting life. We're just twitchy >about the *kind* of
life it
>may support, i.e. not the human race :)
>Spidey

Bingo, Spidey.

kj
eco-deconstructionist
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 02 Dec 2005 14:37 GMT
Wow, man!!  I almost broke my neck!!  The parachute cord was wrapped
around my neck when the chute opened.  My face turned blue and I passed
out before it came loose and I made a safe landing at the capitol steps.
Am ready to start the campaign but need a few tokes before I make my
first speech.  Anyone got a doobie?  Thank God I'm in Canada, eh? eheheh
elmo  
/////////////
You don't have to be born a Canadian citizen to be elected as Prime
Minister.
And yet no Canadian citizen can accept an appointment to peerage or
knighthood
by any foreign royalty. Such as Conrad Black 'having to give up Canadian
citizenship'
  for that of British in order to be knighted "as no mere mortal
lord of beaver pond" or
something like that.
I believe that to be nominated for President in the USA, the person must
be a natural
born American citizen, please correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's
what's keeping
Arnie from seriously running for the prexxy.
So, no Elmo, just make sure that you don't keep library books too long
and you
don't make noise on sunday mornings and you say "eh" and just try and be
a bit
Canadian.
Her Excellency the Right Honourable Ms. Michaëlle Jean.is our new
governor general
(Royal appointment by way of Canadian Government recommendation and
approval was born in Haiti, therefore is a cictuzen of France, but who
married a Canadian who
at one time challenged conventional wisdom in Quebec by discussion the
merits of
Quebec separtism in one of his documentaries. Sweet. 8-)
cactus jammies
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13799-438AFF05-729@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net...
Re: Mission Completed: Found The WMDs
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Nov 27, 2005, 10:37am (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9080-4389C01A-760@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net... Re: Mission
Completed: Found The WMDs
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2005, 12:09pm (CST-2)
From: waterspider@moonlight.net (Waterspider)
"Paul2" <emperorwoo@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:i-2dnbzlycXmCRXeRVn-tg@rogers.com... Hey Alan, who would you
suggest run the most powerful country in the World. Pray, do tell...
I know this question was for Alan, but I'd like to offer my suggestion.
How bout someone with a conscience and a modicum of respect for human
life? Surely there's a few of them out there. Waterspider
////////////
Are you suggesting I should run for office? ahahahahahhaha!!! elmo
Hell, yeah! I'll vote for you --oops, I guess I can't vote in Missouri.
How bout running for Prime Minister of Canada? Spidey
/////////
What about the language barrier? I don't speak Canadian. :-) elmo
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Waterspider - 26 Nov 2005 20:16 GMT
"Alan" <alan@veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk> wrote weekend.

> And do please continue to pretend that I don't exist,

No one is pretending that you don't exist, Alan. I think that (like me) most
people already know too well just how f.cked up our society is. Reading
volumes more evidence of this state of affairs is not only discouraging but
time consuming. I'd be far more interested reading your opinions and
experience re hcv related stuff, our common denominator.

Don't think I've ever asked you this, but did you coin Feral Cave Dweller
for me? I have used Feral as a pseudo and refer to my office at home as The
Cave. Coincidence? If not, thanks, I'm flattered :)

Spidey
Alan - 27 Nov 2005 10:41 GMT
> "Alan" <alan@veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk> wrote weekend.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Spidey

LOL. It's not you lot; somebody is very busy cancelling my posts.

How about this one:-)

By  Shaheen Chughtai
Sunday 27 November 2005, 11:18 Makka Time, 8:18 GMT  

When Australian police announced recently that eight men arrested on terrorism
charges were planning a bomb attack against a nuclear reactor near Sydney, many
security observers elsewhere were not surprised.

Officials and analysts in the United States have been warning that al-Qaida or
associated groups are planning such attacks on American soil.

Dubbed American Hiroshima, the plan apparently targets New York, Miami, Los
Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Boston and Washington,
DC.

Former US Defence Secretary William Perry says there is an even chance of a
nuclear attack on the US this decade. Renowned investor Warren Buffet has
predicted “a nuclear terrorist attack … is inevitable”.

David Dionisi, a former US army intelligence officer, is convinced that plans
for a nuclear attack are under way.

Once a conservative Republican, Dionisi enjoyed success as a Fortune 500
business executive after leaving the army. But he later rejected his political
beliefs and now advocates peace, social justice and humanitarianism.

In his new book, American Hiroshima, Dionisi argues decades of unjust US foreign
policies will be largely to blame for sowing the seeds of hostility and
vengeance which could lead to a nuclear catastrophe.

Aljazeera’s Shaheen Chughtai caught up with Dionisi in London.

Dionisi had just flown from Liberia where he helps run a Catholic orphanage.

Aljazeera.net: You were once a conservative Republican. What made you change
your beliefs?

Dionisi: The transformation was a discovery process. When I joined the military,
I had a very limited view of what the US was doing around the world. Through my
experiences as a military intelligence officer and later as a business executive
doing international volunteer work, I started to see our foreign policies were
often hurting people and making the world more dangerous.

One of the more dramatic moments in this process was when I was assigned to a
unit focussing on implementing US foreign policy in central America. I was part
of a rapid deployment team designed to go in and suppress forces working for
social justice in places such as Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala.

You describe the US public as uninformed - why?

The major media outlets are owned by a handful of corporations interested in
promoting advertising and pro-government messages. Anything that challenges the
existing power structure very often fails to receive air time. I highlight Fox
as an extreme example of the Republican propaganda machine.

But when your country is fighting a war, you have an obligation to understand
what’s really going on. If you don’t, you can become an agent of injustice. If
people can find the time to watch baseball or soccer etc, they can make an
effort to read, travel, talk and not be limited to the messages of fear.

They also need to understand their history. In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff
presented a plan called Operation Northwood, which is now declassified. It
proposed conducting mass casualty attacks on American targets and blaming it on
Cuba to rally public support for war against Fidel Castro. President Kennedy
rejected the plan. So we shouldn’t just assume any future attack on our soil is
the work of al-Qaida.

Your book condemns alliances with repressive regimes. Can’t these be justified
if they serve a greater cause?

History teaches us that when you form alliances that promote injustice, you can
only expect injustice in the future. Kindness begets kindness and the inverse is
also true.

The US fought the largest secret war in its history during the 1980s in
Afghanistan - over $6bn was funnelled into that war. As a result, US
collaboration with and responsibility for al-Qaida goes well beyond what most
even informed Americans understand.

If you consider that there are over 500 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay from over 40
countries - though not a single one is from Iraq – and that the CIA recruited
thousands of people from over 40 countries to be part of that war – none from
Iraq – you can better understand how the US played a direct role in creating
what became the Taliban and al-Qaida.

Bush supporters argue the removal of Saddam and the Taliban was beneficial and
therefore justified military action.

That starts from an artificial premise. When the Bush administration says,
“Well, it’s great that Saddam’s gone,” it fails to acknowledge that Bush’s
father and President Ronald Reagan were key forces that helped create Saddam
Hussein.

Looking at what happened in 1979 it can put a lot of this in perspective. As
Reagan came into office, the US embassy hostages in Iran were released after 444
days in captivity. Americans don’t know this wasn’t a coincidence. The US had
agreed in writing not to attack Iran and also paid Tehran $8bn. That’s why that
media event (of the hostages’ release during Reagan’s inauguration ceremony)
occurred with such precise timing.

How do you know this?

These are facts that were subsequently published. The agreement with Iran was
submitted for review by the current administration to see if it would be binding
and prevent an attack in the near future.

Bush administration attorneys concluded it was signed under duress and therefore
not binding. I know this from a former senior member of the Bush administration,
a seasoned CIA officer named Ray Flynn.

The US felt humiliated; the Reagan administration wanted to hurt the Iranians
but its hands were tied. So Saddam Hussein was used as the agent for that. He
ended up invading Iran … and you had this brutal war from 1980 to 1988 that
killed over a million people.

What was the US role in that war?

By 1982, Iran had recaptured lost territory and Saddam asked the US for help. So
President Reagan signed a National Security Decision Directive - NSDD 114 - to
provide all means of support to Saddam Hussein. Donald Rumsfeld then went on a
very sensitive mission to deliver satellite intelligence, other forms of
intelligence and weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

That’s why the current Bush administration was so confident Saddam had chemical
and biological weapons; they knew the US had supplied the ingredients in the
1980s.

Saddam broke with the US, however, when he found out we were selling weapons to
Iran in the mid-1980s – the Iran-Contra affair. All this puts the invasion of
Kuwait into perspective. Saddam got clear messages from the US saying he could
invade; plus he felt the US owed him one after betraying him over Iran.

All these wars form a continuum of injustice. Look at the UN economic sanctions
in the 1990s that the US and UK refused to lift: over a million Iraqis died,
including 500,000 children. That’s more than the number who died from the
Nagasaki and Hiroshima atomic bombings.

You list numerous ‘unjust’ actions that led to attacks on US targets – isn’t
that justifying terrorism?

I talked to the CIA’s Michael Scheuer, head of the “find bin Ladin” team, and he
stresses that people in the Muslim world are not fighting us because of our
freedoms or elections but our foreign policy. This is something the Bush
administration constantly twists.

The basic principle is: if you hurt someone, they’re going to want to hurt you.
We need to ask questions like: Why did 9/11 happen? Bin Ladin has a very clear
articulation of why he’s at war with the US, Britain, Israel and others. If
Americans read it, they’ll see it’s very clear about things such as US forces on
Arab land.

And it’s not just an Arab or Muslim issue. I learnt this in South Korea where
the US has had troops since 1950. When you’re there that long, it sends a
powerful message that you’re not there to liberate, you’re there to occupy.

You describe the US as the biggest WMD proliferator. Why?

The US has spent $5 trillion on 70,000 nuclear weapons since 1945 – more than
the rest of the world combined. A Congressional report in 1999 found the designs
for every deployed nuclear warhead – and for some not built yet – had been
stolen and passed to China. Israel acquired its programme from the US too.

Despite this, ordinary Americans are more concerned about the Bush
administration’s lies and hyped-up warnings about WMD in places such as Iraq.

Is Iran really a threat to the US? An alliance between Shia Iran and Sunni-led
al-Qaida seems far fetched.

Iran will not attack the US if the US does not attack Iran. Congressman Curt
Weldon (who accuses Tehran of plotting to attack the States) talks about
attacking Iran but such talk makes the world more dangerous. If we were Iran,
we’d develop nuclear weapons simply because Israel has them. So the US should
facilitate a process whereby Israel eliminates its nuclear weapons.

As for the religious differences between Iran and al-Qaida, yes, that’s been
true – but Bush’s War on Terror has been pushing the sects together.
Intelligence reports indicate bin Ladin’s son Saad has been based in Iran. No,
we can’t be certain they’re helping each other. But in any case, the Bush
administration does not want peace with Iran.

You say ‘kindness begets kindness’. What’s your evidence?

After the First World War, the Treaty of Versailles punished Germany harshly,
producing hardship and hostility that the Nazis exploited. But after the Second
World War, when the Marshall Plan helped rebuild Germany and Japan, the US did
more to promote democracy than at any time during the Cold War.

To make the world a safer place we must aggressively attack the causes of
suffering and hostility. Imagine if Bush had said after 9/11: “People are
capitalising on our mistakes in the Middle East. So, let’s ensure there is no
hunger, lack of clean water, lack of education etc in the Muslim world.” We
would have made more friends and drained support for our enemies.

If we can’t expect US foreign policy to change soon, isn’t it too late to stop
an American Hiroshima?

It’s not too late although your point is realistic. But we can still influence
the US response. Far more people will die in the retaliation and the
counter-retaliation.

If the US had the wisdom, we could make the world safer. The US military budget
was over $420 billion in 2005. We could split that three ways: a third on
economic development in the Middle East, especially Iraq; a third on tackling
injustice at home, such as providing universal healthcare – and that would still
leave us with the world’s biggest military budget.

People have to become more involved. The anti-Vietnam War movement is an example
– but it failed to hold government to account. If we had tried (former Defence
Secretary) Robert McNamara or (former Secretary of State) Henry Kissinger for
crimes such as the illegal bombing of Cambodia, it would have sent a powerful
message to future leaders. The Bush government today wouldn’t have been so bold.

Ultimately, Americans need to understand many of them will die and parts of
their country will become uninhabitable unless they hold their government to
account.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D99265B2-4402-46FE-A905-1F086F513A3D.htm

Alan

"Can't you see we're still here,
Can't you see we're still here,
Singing loud; Singing clear,
We shall not go under,
We're still here."

Nemesis Peace Centre

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/protector.html

Abuse of Women and Children

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/

Nemesis News

http://lordcerneabbas.blogspot.com/

Absolute Anarchy

http://lordcerneabbastoo.blogspot.com/

http://www.john-lennon.com/
cactus jammies - 27 Nov 2005 12:38 GMT
Pardon me, I did it again, I somehow got Paul and Alan confused.  All my
rambing stuff on here lately was in answer to Alan's hypotheses regarding
anarchism, not Paul or Paul2.  I apologize for the confusion and specially
for discomfort caused to those who took my misdirected comments to heart.  I
have no problem discussing this stuff with Alan in his own write, I am
somewhat impatient with the practice of reposting articles from places I've
never heard.  Most folks now adays just make reference to a URL on off topic
subjects.

anyways, its 4:30 AM, back to slumberland.

cactus jammies
aka Bob Mackie--------------------------------------------

>> "Alan" <alan@veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk> wrote weekend.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 356 lines]
>
> http://www.john-lennon.com/ 
Alan - 27 Nov 2005 14:48 GMT
> Pardon me, I did it again, I somehow got Paul and Alan confused.  All my
> rambing stuff on here lately was in answer to Alan's hypotheses regarding
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> cactus jammies

Hey, but it get worse if you live in New York.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/11/26/bedbugs-swarming-nyc_n_11276.html

Bedbugs Swarming NYC…

sh.t, the place is not only radioactive but swarming with bed bugs too and that
tosser on the phone was making out like he lives somewhere special. I'm glad I
don't live there :-)

Firebird

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/index.html

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Rimbaud lives on - 30 Nov 2005 22:26 GMT
Here is the DEFINITIVE article on bedbugs [microlice] endemic to NYC,
by Bryan Adrian

http://www.angelfire.com/zine/cetaceandragon/ems.html

It is a thriller!

.... "Upon inspecting yet another major hospital, I met a couple of
guys who were very busy scratching their entire body. Their scalps too!
They had a skin parasite which was not visible to the naked eye. The
physicians there insisted their malady was not scabies nor bedbugs [as
reported in THE NEW YORKER in late April 2005] and told them it could
only be an "imaginary illness." "There are no micro lice," they were
told, with such hideous smirks stapled onto the faces it was as if what
was also declared was "No nanobots too, Trekkies!"" [heard under spasms
and hoots of derision] echoing the sentiment nowadays that nearly
everything seems to bee connected to nanotechnology or the world wide
electronic spiderweb. The physicians suggested sarcastically to the men
(both chronically unemployed college honor roll grads, languages and
humanities majors, who are both very willing to work, but cannot find
even minimum wage jobs) because there are so many tens of millions of
new immigrants in the US now stealing their jobs from them. If you
aren't a recent immigrant, chances are slim for you, born here in
America, to obtain a job, even if you are literally starving to death
and would almost kill to have that job as a construction worker,
plumber, cashier, farmhand, custodian, or car or drug dealer.

The hospital medical staff insinuated to the two unemployed men in
question, who are both fluent in several languages, that they "go
upstairs to the psychiatric ward, or better yet to Bellevue".

Weeks later I met up with these same two distracted men to follow up on
their non-Bellevue progress. They told me they had spread this
imaginary illness to at least a few dozen people already. They wanted
to infest the physicians with their "imaginary" microlice, and then
tell them that THEY were the "deranged psychotics" who needed
"psychiatric evaluation." All three of us laughed, but not for long.
The itching and aggravating tickles of thousands of micro-filamentous
and hairy-legged critters dominated their every bodily sensation, and
they repeated their paroxysm dance, as they scratched, suffering not
unlike that of an epileptic. Despite the egregious and erroneous and
incomplete medical diagnosis they had received, the examining
physicians along with the hospital billed the men $515 each (which the
City of New York will eventually end up coughing up). Nobody gained
from this transaction except the hospitals, the doctors, and the
micro-lice (and certainly many of the HMO investment insiders who play
the strings of the hospital's financial portfolio, avoiding ERISA laws
like a lively gypsy fiddle player.

Later, in the non-gentrified hinterlands of the Chelsea District, I met
a woman who had been beaten so many times by her ex-husband that her
nose had been broken four times. She could luckily afford
reconstructive surgery each time, because, even though she was a
single-mom, she was also a highly paid CPA. Even though no longer
married, her former NBA ex-husband could visit their little daughter
without preventative restrictions, upsetting the balance of the
mother-daughter household, and both female psyches (and on occasion the
mother's already scarred and tilted nose). She knew of no agency in the
City yet that had helped her nor that had recommended to her a
productive course of legal or protective action. Previous City Hall
metro agency recommendations had actually brought her embarrassment,
shame, and potential loss of employment, in the end. It's not only the
homeless who suffer as a result of our pre-Neanderthal social services,
it is every last one of us. Anyone can suffer. You could be next. Yes.
You reading this article.

In Western Europe and Japan and even in Eastern Europe the people would
be shocked to witness the extent of our callous lack of humanity
towards our fellow citizens, especially from our government leadership,
and the slim percentage of our tax revenues used for social safety
nets, despite the incessant crowing of our more and more meaningless
media and press, touting our BOOM ECONOMY, and that we are the "richest
nation on Earth" while we spend nearly all our tax money on military
subcontractors worldwide, in particular in Afghanistan and Iraq. What
kind of boast is this?

Many homeless people have a horrible diet because they eat whatever is
cheapest, and most accessible. That means food that doesn't need
cooking. Food with more chemicals in them to preserve their shelf life
than exists in the combined warehouses of Proctor & Gamble, Union
Carbide, Shell, Dupont, and Monsanto. Alcohol, not the lobbyists of the
above, helps these poor souls to forget their despair and destitution.
Twinkies, crackers, greasy potato chips, candy bars and cheap alcoholic
beverages, such as Mad Dog 20-20, Irish Rose, or a 40 ounce bumper of
Old English 800, without sufficient or supplementary nutrients, bring
on a fierce systemic yeast infection called Candida Albicans, which can
take over any part of the body having a soft mucous lining. Especially
vulnerable: intestines, stomach, sinuses, eyes, vagina, anus, and
lungs. It can cause exhaustion, diarrhea, flu, lack of mental clarity,
depression, pneumonia, allergies, and death.

There is little acknowledgement of this illness by the American Medical
Association, nor from the doctors it yearly manufactures in its
factory-like training hospitals during the educational grind of earning
an MD title. Even rich people, if prescribed too many inappropriate
antibiotics by their physicians, get this same Candida Albicans. The
broad spectrum antibiotics used indiscriminately for the last several
decades, kill off vital, friendly, and symbiotic bacteria that live in
our body, and replace them with a choking overpopulation of budding
asexual yeasts, spores in a sense, such as Saccharomyces Ceres. It
takes years to fully recover, rich or poor, and it is much work to
re-harvest the indispensable intestinal colonies of the
life-sustaining, mating bacteria. Most US doctors label this systemic
yeast-spore illness "imaginary" also. Could it just be that arrogance
and the profit motive have completely killed off reason in the medical
profession, as surely as justice has been squeezed out by money in our
American courts?

I caught up again with the guys with the nano-lice. They explained that
they had learned that what was really their ailment was not lice but
microscopic mites, on the same dimensional scale as our current
nano-technology and the micro world of asexual fungal spores and unisex
nematode bloodworms, which can only be seen with an electron
microscope, colonizing your intestines or getting under your skin, the
same way a pimp slips into a full length mink coat.

The taller of the two, Ross M., had done lots of research. He
discovered that mouse, rat and pigeon mini-mites were endemic in parts
of New York City. When abandoned buildings, or hotels, housing
projects, apartment condominiums, subway tunnels, or trash dumps, are
exterminated for rats, the Bdellonyssus bacoti mite or the
Liponyssoides sanguineus nano-mite jumps from the dying or dead rodent,
bat, or pigeon (flying rats) onto a human host/victim. They can bring
or cause rickettsial pox and typhus fever. Much time and money needs to
be spent to obtain a correct diagnosis when one is afflicted with these
micro-mites. The baby nymphs and adults BOTH attack man, the nymph
being even more troublesome. Both are microscopic. The current campaign
in New York City to exterminate the crushing rat problem [the worse
ever in New York history, paralleling the illegal immigration
explosion, the biggest multi-waved immigration volume ever in the
history of our nation] ... is also increasing the mite problem, because
there is not much effort to collect and burn the dead rats.

The pesticide used by the Bloomberg Administration is also killing many
curious Park Avenue dogs who lick up the pesticides like new doggie
goodies.

The two homeless men had been to numerous emergency rooms, clinics, and
city agencies begging for relief. They never found it. Finally, they
found the answer at an old pest control business off of Times Square,
where the kindly and wise old proprietor, Dave who has been in his
business for decades, had guided them to the Handbook of Pest Control,
6th edition, and Elimite skin cream. He told them that environmental
control was perhaps even more essential than bodily control. Carpets,
bedding, clothing, even shoes, can serve as resting, breeding, feeding,
and staging areas for the invisible blood suckers. He recommended
silica aerogel and Lysol for environmental control, and Elimite lotion
for corporeal control. Doctors seldom prescribe Elimite anymore today,
perhaps because it is not pitched by the armies of pharmaceutical
salesmen that guide doctors through the labyrinth of commercial and
global pharmaceutical megalithic drug "products." Doctors in the U.S.
today are apparently no more than desperate street hookers cowering
under the fist of their pharmaceutical mulitinational pimps.

Elimite is produced from the permethrin 5% extract of various plants.
Some say that the chrysanthemum flower that is grown in the deserts of
Egypt, South Africa, and elsewhere for this purpose, is the best
source. Still, many others find that these two geographical areas do
not supply as rich a botanical source of natural insecticides, harmless
to man but lethal to insects, as several plants in more densely
forested areas. Plant hormones are the age old nemesis of crawling
parasites on humans. Yet today, toxic and poisonous synthetic and
polymerized substitutes are often prescribed (and rapidly becoming
ineffective) because the vermin have become more and more resistant to
the man-made (meaning often more profitable too) laboratory
preparations (Lindane, Kwell, Eurax, etc.)

If our medical services bug you, in New York City, or across the USA,
or if dreadfully inadequate distribution of tax moneys offends you, or
if you are suffering from the symptoms of Candida Albicans or the
mouse, rat, bat, or pigeon mite, please raise your voice, badger and
bug your politicians, or write to Street News or to me, of your
experience, or better yet, take the issue to the streets yourself and
do something now, before the handcuffs and shackles of the 3rd Bush
Family Administration makes every last one of us all mere food tidbits
for the belly of the beast."

by Bryan Adrian

> > Pardon me, I did it again, I somehow got Paul and Alan confused.  All my
> > rambing stuff on here lately was in answer to Alan's hypotheses regarding
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Paul - 27 Nov 2005 16:44 GMT
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:38:35 GMT, "cactus jammies"
<cactusjammies@hotmail.com>, in message ID
<fNhif.132879$S4.126066@edtnps84>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>Pardon me, I did it again, I somehow got Paul and Alan confused.  All my
>rambing stuff on here lately was in answer to Alan's hypotheses regarding
>anarchism, not Paul or Paul2.  I apologize for the confusion and specially
>for discomfort caused to those who took my misdirected comments to heart.

No problem at my end.
Long live the revolution  :-)
Signature

Paul

Use the reply by email facility in your
newsreader to send email

elmoemerson@webtv.net - 02 Dec 2005 14:22 GMT
And you do have quite the knack for getting the last laugh, Alan.
ahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
elmo
////////
And do please continue to pretend that I don't exist, because not only
are my children O.K. but I also might know something about..........
*snigger*
He who laughs last, lasts the loudest *feral* *cave* dwellers*
Lord Cerne Abbas
Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall. Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big
fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men couldn't put Humpty
Dumpty Bush together again.
http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html
http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html
http://www.john-lennon.com/

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Paul2 - 26 Nov 2005 16:58 GMT
give it up...sheeesh

Paul2

>> > Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against
>> > the
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> http://www.john-lennon.com/
mags - 27 Nov 2005 13:01 GMT
All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is to
read this stuff???  Oh my aching brain.

Mags
> Hi *feral* *cave* dwellers* as promised, I have fought my war against the
> terrorists without fear or hesitation as is my duty to the people. I can
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Alan - 27 Nov 2005 13:27 GMT
> All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is to
> read this stuff???  Oh my aching brain.
>
> Mags

Your brain will be aching when you finally grasp the enormity of what Bush has
done. Every single serviceman and woman out in Iraq has been exposed to depleted
uranium, which affectively removes them from America's breeding stock forever.

Deformed babies, even worse then when they did the great Thalidomide experiment.

Alan
Waterspider - 27 Nov 2005 18:40 GMT
>> All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is
>> to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> has
> done.

In all fairness to us Feral Cave Dwellers, if you look closely you'll see
that most of us agree with you; that's why no one has anything to add to
your posts. You're preaching to the converted.

Spidey
Alan - 28 Nov 2005 09:03 GMT
> >> All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is
> >> to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Spidey

It's O.K. now, I was having problems because I needed to unsubscribe and
resubscribe again.

What are the symptoms of encephalitis? Does your body hurt and you feel all
swollen? I think I might have to admit defeat and go see the Doc again and maybe
go on TX again.

Firebird

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/index.html

http://theoriginalfirebird.blogspot.com/
Doug - 27 Nov 2005 17:30 GMT
I'm with you mags, "ouch".   ahahah  (ouch)     Doug

> All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is
> to read this stuff???  Oh my aching brain.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>
>> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Shawn - 28 Nov 2005 09:48 GMT
Mags, some people just need to be kill filed that's all. If you're using
Microsoft Outlook Express I can tell you how to set it up so you don't ever
have wade through that kind of crap.

Shawn
(use the "reply feature on your browser to send a private reply via E-Mail.)

> All you commenters out there must be tx free.  Do you know how hard it is
> to read this stuff???  Oh my aching brain.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>
>> http://www.john-lennon.com/
Alan - 28 Nov 2005 10:01 GMT
*Blub* *Blub* *Blub*

When will you get it *Monkee* *Boy*

You do *not* control what I post to this newsgroup any more then your idiot
President controls Iraq.

You are so typical of the American male, who thinks because he can shoot a big
gun, he can think.

Now do dry your eyes and stop your *whining*

*snigger*

Lord Cerne Abbas

Humpty Dumpty Bush fell off the Iraq wall.
Humpty Dumpty Bush had a big fall.
All his spin doctors and all the President's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty Bush together again.

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/identity.html

http://www.veloceraptor.free-online.co.uk/mylinks.html

http://www.john-lennon.com/