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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / October 2005

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VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights

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smith21347@msn.com - 27 Oct 2005 16:41 GMT
 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights
   * VX-950: Vertex announced today that it has initiated a 20-patient
Phase
     Ib study of VX-950 dosed in combination with pegylated interferon
in
     Europe.  Top-line results from the study including safety and
viral
     kinetic data are anticipated by early first quarter 2006.
The Company also announced today that it has completed key steps toward
    submitting an IND to support Phase II development of VX-950 in the
    United States, including the completion of a pharmacokinetic study
in
    healthy volunteers that has confirmed the bioavailability of the
tablet
    form of VX-950, and the completion of 28-day nonclinical
toxicology
    studies in two species.  Vertex has completed pre-IND
consultations with
    the U.S. FDA and plans to submit an IND in the next few weeks.
The
    Company anticipates initiating in the U.S. by year-end a one-month
Phase
    II clinical trial of VX-950 in combination with pegylated
interferon.      In November, Vertex plans to present data on VX-950 at
a medical
     conference, including the full results of the Phase Ib VX-950
     monotherapy study, as well as related pharmacokinetic and viral
     sequencing data.

                                                       Ron
anonymousone - 27 Oct 2005 18:01 GMT
> Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights
>     * VX-950: Vertex announced today that it has initiated a 20-patient
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>                                                         Ron

It looks like better treatments are going to be here in a few years. It
probably makes sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait.
greyhackles - 27 Oct 2005 22:49 GMT
>It looks like better treatments are going to be here in a few years. It
>probably makes sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait.

It may *always* make sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait
(whomever those people might actually be), but to evaluate a
treatment-delaying decision based on the possible future availability of
alternative treatment probably doesn't make sense, imo.

To my knowledge, nobody has achieved SVR with any of the alternatives to
IFN/Ribavirin. So far all that has been shown is there are alternatives that
can knock down viral loads without killing the patient, but that's as far as
the supporting data goes.

Delay if you can afford to delay (with all the unstated connotations that
might imply - and there are a bunch, for sure) but don't delay simply on the
expectation of proven alternatives arriving in the nick of time.

Cheers - and always keep an eye out for stock shills...

/greyhackles
Doug - 27 Oct 2005 23:51 GMT
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8DFV5PG0.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_
down&chan=db


doogie

> Cheers - and always keep an eye out for stock shills...
>
> /greyhackles
smith21347@msn.com - 28 Oct 2005 00:00 GMT
What is it with this Doom and Gloom.  Hep -C is not a death sentence.
If you read Thomas's new post you will see that only 3 out of 100 will
actually die because of the virus. Peg will soon go by the wayside
sooner than later.  Schering-Plough see's the hand writing on the wall
and are in heavy research to come up with their inhibitor.  Next Month
NM-283 as well as VX-950 will be the talk of the AALSD.

                                           Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 28 Oct 2005 13:57 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 4:00pm (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
What is it with this Doom and Gloom. Hep -C is not a death sentence. If
you read Thomas's new post you will see that only 3 out of 100 will
actually die because of the virus. Peg will soon go by the wayside
sooner than later. Schering-Plough see's the hand writing on the wall
and are in heavy research to come up with their inhibitor. Next Month
NM-283 as well as VX-950 will be the talk of the AALSD.
                                                                                        Ron
////////////
Yeah, and half the rest will die from other things caused by their hepc.
LOL.  Interferon will be around alot longer than ribavirin in the mix of
combo drugs used for hepc.  Year before last, it was Biln's drug that
was the talk of the town.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Gordo Mondragon - 28 Oct 2005 14:46 GMT
I think you're right.  Interferon seems to be what provides the SVR.  
The antivirals by themselves just suppress the virus.

>  
> Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 14:48 GMT
It's interesting to note that the new drugs are being used in trials
with interferon.  Ribavirin is the drug in present combo tx with the
most debilitating side effects, as well.  
elmo
///////
I think you're right. Interferon seems to be what provides the SVR. The
antivirals by themselves just suppress the virus.
In article <7360-43622021-290@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>,
elmoemerson@webtv.net wrote:
Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 4:00pm (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
What is it with this Doom and Gloom. Hep -C is not a death sentence. If
you read Thomas's new post you will see that only 3 out of 100 will
actually die because of the virus. Peg will soon go by the wayside
sooner than later. Schering-Plough see's the hand writing on the wall
and are in heavy research to come up with their inhibitor. Next Month
NM-283 as well as VX-950 will be the talk of the AALSD.
??????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????Ron
////////////
Yeah, and half the rest will die from other things caused by their hepc.
LOL. Interferon will be around alot longer than ribavirin in the mix of
combo drugs used for hepc. Year before last, it was Biln's drug that was
the talk of the town.
elmo
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Russ - 29 Oct 2005 20:51 GMT
amen to that!! I would really think about treatment again if Riba was out of
the mix.... The interferon was bad enough, but that damned anemia!

Signature

Russ

Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com

> It's interesting to note that the new drugs are being used in trials
> with interferon.  Ribavirin is the drug in present combo tx with the
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 03:36 GMT
<snip> Peg will soon go by the wayside sooner than later. ????Ron
<snip>
////////////
Truly an intelligent statement, Ron.  Jack Daniels or George Dickel?
:-)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 28 Oct 2005 13:51 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 5:49pm (CDT+1)
From: greyhackles@NOSPAMyahoo.com (greyhackles)
On 27 Oct 2005 10:01:55 -0700, "anonymousone" <tedw2@earthlink.net>
wrote:
It looks like better treatments are going to be here in a few years. It
probably makes sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait.
It may *always* make sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait
(whomever those people might actually be), but to evaluate a
treatment-delaying decision based on the possible future availability of
alternative treatment probably doesn't make sense, imo.
To my knowledge, nobody has achieved SVR with any of the alternatives to
IFN/Ribavirin. So far all that has been shown is there are alternatives
that can knock down viral loads without killing the patient, but that's
as far as the supporting data goes.
Delay if you can afford to delay (with all the unstated connotations
that might imply - and there are a bunch, for sure) but don't delay
simply on the expectation of proven alternatives arriving in the nick of
time.
Cheers - and always keep an eye out for stock shills...
/greyhackles  
///////////////
I couldn't agree with you more, Grey!
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 28 Oct 2005 13:49 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 10:01am (CDT-2)
From: tedw2@earthlink.net (anonymousone)
smith21347@msn.com wrote:
Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights
        * VX-950: Vertex announced today that it has
initiated a 20-patient Phase
            Ib study of VX-950 dosed in
combination with pegylated interferon
in
            Europe. Top-line results from the
study including safety and viral
            kinetic data are anticipated by
early first quarter 2006. The Company also announced today that it has
completed key steps toward
            submitting an IND to support Phase
II development of VX-950 in the     United States, including the
completion of a pharmacokinetic study
in
          healthy volunteers that has confirmed the
bioavailability of the tablet
          form of VX-950, and the completion of
28-day nonclinical toxicology
          studies in two species. Vertex has
completed pre-IND consultations with
          the U.S. FDA and plans to submit an IND in
the next few weeks. The
          Company anticipates initiating in the U.S.
by year-end a one-month Phase
          II clinical trial of VX-950 in combination
with pegylated interferon.     In November, Vertex plans to present
data on VX-950 at a medical
              conference, including the full
results of the Phase Ib VX-950       monotherapy study, as well as
related pharmacokinetic and viral       sequencing data.
                                                                                                                  Ron
It looks like better treatments are going to be here in a few years. It
probably makes sense to wait for treatment for those that can wait.
//////////////
I've been hearing that for the past 6 years...and they aren't any closer
now than they were then.  "Yeah, in the next 4 or 5 years, something new
will come along."  Yadda, yadda, yadda.....

Don't mean to be a bubble burster, but I think putting off tx waiting
for something better is a mistake for some people, not all.  For younger
people (40 and under) who have little or no liver damage, waiting may
very well be the right course.  On the other hand....

I also think more people could attain an SVR than do, using the drugs
we've got right now, if doctors utilized them in a more intelligent
manner.  That means daily Infergen and more ribavirin for type 1 and 4.
Procrit and Neupogen available to everybody if their labs indidcated.  

"And if that aint country, ......"

elmo  

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 28 Oct 2005 15:08 GMT
You people that spout TX remind me of a group of junkies.  I remember
in the 60's when so many of my friends started shooting dope and for
some reason they were always trying to make me become one of them.
There seemed to be this need for them to have everyone around them to
be junkies so they could feel more secure.  The difference here is you
use the fear factor.  A lot of people feel safer because everyone takes
their shoes off before getting on a plane, not me it just smells bad.

                                                             Ron
Russ - 28 Oct 2005 16:02 GMT
I think Elmo is saying before NOT treating you should be very careful and
make an educated decision. And it is fact that HCV causes many problems NOT
related to the liver, only recently has the medical system started to
acknowledge this. My reasons for doing treatment were not to "be in with a
bunch of groovy heppers", sh.t the treatment sucked rotten eggs and I did
not like it.

But I did not like feeling like I was going to barf 2 out of 4 weeks in a
month, and feeling tired all the f.cking time. Think about it, you have a
virus in your body and it is constantly in this struggle to get rid of it.
Throws your immune system into chaos. In contrast, the little window of
viral free I had after treatment till the time I relapsed proved to me the
effects of NOT having this virus were something to consider. Till about 4
1/2 months after finishing treatment, once the chemo wore off, I felt great.
I was viral free at 12, 24 and 48 weeks. I responded to treatment, but
"relapsed". And when I relapsed, it was the same old "Flu like "want to
puke" tired " feeling of just not being well. I knew it was back though I
tried to be positive. But I was not surprised at the outcome of my 6 month
post-treatment. My liver functions were before treatment and after are good,
stage 1 fibrosis, mild inflammation. I wasn't worried about my liver so much
as QOL (quality of life!).

The WHOLE reason I found out about the virus was asking my doctor, "Why am I
so tired all the time?". I found out when I visited an old high school
friend. We had shared needles back in the 70's. He told me he had HCV, type
1a, as I. I asked him how he found out, he said the same thing I did, "I was
complaining to my Doc about being tired all the time". I guess having
billions of virii in your blood wears you down, ya think?

So before labeling everyone here, maybe you could sit back and read some
more of peoples experiences before pronouncing such judgment. It was the
collective experience of this group that helped me to decide to do
treatment, and the support of the group that helped me to get through what
was decidedly the hardest thing I have ever done. 48 weeks of pure crap...
never been so sick so long in my life..

A lot of people who have done the treatment have been successful. I was
unfortunate that I was not. I had a good shot at an SVR and tried, that is
all one can do. Today I do not feel the affects of the HCV, why I do not
know. I had felt the affects for years. I'm not going to complain.

Oh, one other thing, you don't have to do treatment to be a part of this
group either. Just an interest in KILLING THE f.cking DRAGON!!

Signature

Russ

Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com

> You people that spout TX remind me of a group of junkies.  I remember
> in the 60's when so many of my friends started shooting dope and for
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>                                                               Ron
smith21347@msn.com - 28 Oct 2005 16:29 GMT
Russ
         You make some good points.  I may have gone a little
overboard with my post.  I just get tired of being attacked for my
views.

       Ron
greyhackles - 28 Oct 2005 19:40 GMT
>Russ
>          You make some good points.  I may have gone a little
>overboard with my post.  I just get tired of being attacked for my
>views.

Welcome to Usenet!

Lesson 1: grow a hide.
Lesson 2: stop whining.
Lesson 3: if you can't handle negative responses, don't poast.

hth ;-)

/greyhackles
smith21347@msn.com - 28 Oct 2005 20:24 GMT
Pink Floyd had it right.   Another brick in the wall

                 Ron
greyhackles - 29 Oct 2005 00:10 GMT
> Pink Floyd had it right.   Another brick in the wall
>
>                  Ron

No, that ain't it.

Some folks here have been leaping at every press release regarding possible
HCV treatments (of pretty much any type, from biochem to TCM) for the last
couple/few years...only to eventually express disappointment with each, for
whatever reasons.

That's gotta be an emotional roller coaster for you...

/greyhackles
Thip - 29 Oct 2005 00:17 GMT
> No, that ain't it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> /greyhackles

I'm one of the "some people".....tried Peg-Intron and flopped at 12 weeks,
Pegasys and flopped at 12 weeks, daily Infergen and could not handle it.
I'm 52, Stage 4, and I'd dearly love to live and be healthy.  Yeah, when
something new looks good, I get REALLY excited.  We all need hope, dude.
greyhackles - 29 Oct 2005 01:19 GMT
>> No, that ain't it.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>I'm 52, Stage 4, and I'd dearly love to live and be healthy.  Yeah, when
>something new looks good, I get REALLY excited.  We all need hope, dude.

Yeah, as soon as I posted that, I figured someone would drop that dime.

I totally understand "hope" for those who had tx fail them. - who knows, I
could join their ranks with the next VL check. But we need to allow a
different perspective for tx-naive HCV+ patients, I believe, lest people incur
additional and unnecessary damage due to fence-sitting caused by misplaced
expectations...

Cheers - and here's hoping at least one of the potential therapy agents proves
successful...

/greyhackles
smith21347@msn.com - 29 Oct 2005 02:15 GMT
What about the tx naive hcv people who's odds by pre determined
conditions stand a poor chance of success? Should they go through 48
weeks of sides with such high odds against them?   Or should they wait
on something that might give them higher odds for success?  This is why
everyone has to make their own decision on how to deal with their
Dragon.  Good luck to everyone.

                               Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 15:15 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 6:15pm (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
What about the tx naive hcv people who's odds by pre determined
conditions stand a poor chance of success? Should they go through 48
weeks of sides with such high odds against them?   Or should they wait
on something that might give them higher odds for success? This is why
everyone has to make their own decision on how to deal with their
Dragon. Good luck to everyone.
                                                                Ron
////////////
You don't have to do a full 48 weeks of tx to figure out whether it's
going to work or not.  If you haven't come close or attained a 2-log
drop at 12 weeks, you can always stop tx at that point.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
kjoh - 31 Oct 2005 04:03 GMT
On 28 Oct 2005 08:29:48 -0700, "smith21347@msn.com"
<smith21347@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Russ
>          You make some good points.  I may have gone a little
>overboard with my post.  I just get tired of being attacked for my
>views.

Welcome to Usenet!

Lesson 1: grow a hide.
Lesson 2: stop whining.
Lesson 3: if you can't handle negative responses, don't poast.

hth ;-)

/greyhackles

Hey Grey:
Poast.  I like that.  Pot roast with toast.

kj


elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 04:15 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 10:03pm (CST+1)
From: kjohyayhoo@nospamyahoo.com (kjoh)
On 28 Oct 2005 08:29:48 -0700, "smith21347@msn.com"
<smith21347@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Russ
                    You make
some good points. I may have gone a little overboard with my post. I
just get tired of being attacked for my views.
Welcome to Usenet!
Lesson 1: grow a hide.
Lesson 2: stop whining.
Lesson 3: if you can't handle negative responses, don't poast.
hth ;-)
/greyhackles
Hey Grey:
Poast. I like that. Pot roast with toast.
kj
///////////
:-)

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 15:03 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 8:29am (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
Russ
                    You make
some good points. I may have gone a little overboard with my post. I
just get tired of being attacked for my views.
                Ron
////////////
You went WAY overboard with your post, Ron.  I don't remember ever
attacking you for your views.  And if others have disagreed with you,
have you considered that you might be wrong?  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 29 Oct 2005 16:50 GMT
No I don't think I am wrong.  I have had the virus since the late 60's
and I am 60 now.  I am one of those in the Vast Majority who will die
with the virus and not because of it.  I get up and do five miles of
road work every morning. You would be puking within a mile.  I have
never felt better.  Amazing what a lifestyle change will do.  I
couldn't even amagin doing TX.

       Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 17:09 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sat, Oct 29, 2005, 8:50am (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
No I don't think I am wrong. I have had the virus since the late 60's
and I am 60 now. I am one of those in the Vast Majority who will die
with the virus and not because of it. I get up and do five miles of road
work every morning. You would be puking within a mile. I have never felt
better. Amazing what a lifestyle change will do. I couldn't even amagin
doing TX.
                Ron
///////////
So you're in the paving business, eh?  I can't amagin bein in your 'Vast
Majority' and dieing with the virus if I had a chance to get rid of it.
But, hell....it's your choice.
By the way, how would you know the hepc isn't going to cause you
problems down the road?  You have a crystal ball or something?    
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 29 Oct 2005 17:41 GMT
Its amazing.  How do you know that your thryoid or other problems
associated with TX  won't be a problem down the road.  Lets wait for 20
years and look at it then. Don't get me wrong, I by no means suggest
that people should not do TX.  I can only state what I feel is right
for me.  Do you put as much effort against other possible causes of
your demise? Lets see now things like harding of the arteries, cancer,
lung problems to mention a few.  I don't know about you but I think
quality of life is more valuble the quanity.

                                           Ron
Thomas Wagner - 30 Oct 2005 16:53 GMT
>Its amazing.  How do you know that your thryoid or other problems
>associated with TX  won't be a problem down the road.  Lets wait for 20
>years and look at it then.

It is rather unlikely to cause problems "down the road" if it has
resolved itself after tx has stopped. Since the causal agent is gone,
what mechanism do you propose would be behind a worsening of the
condition?

Untreated HCV, OTOH, persistently damages the host organism. The amount
of damage it does varies from person to person, but damage it does,
whether it results in symptoms or not.

>Don't get me wrong, I by no means suggest
>that people should not do TX.  I can only state what I feel is right
>for me.  Do you put as much effort against other possible causes of
>your demise? Lets see now things like harding of the arteries, cancer,
>lung problems to mention a few.  I don't know about you but I think
>quality of life is more valuble the quanity.

But that's exactly it - HCV doesn't just cause death, it DOES
significantly lower the quality of life for a large percentage of the
infected:

[...] "This preliminary analysis indicated that patients with HCV
infection have an impaired quality of life compared with healthy
controls. Further, this impaired quality of life apparently is not
secondary to anxiety or depression."

http://www.hepnet.com/hepc/easl97/easl97i.html

And:

[...] 'The authors conclude, “The better quality of life in patients
with sustained virological response indicates that antiviral therapy
might even be indicated in the absence of any liver disease.”'

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2004icr/aasld/docs/hcv/112204_c.html

Thomas
Signature

To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

smith21347@msn.com - 30 Oct 2005 17:27 GMT
The problem here is that this could apply to any ailment.  I wouldn't
think you would need a 600 person study to figure it out.  This is
simple human nature.

                            Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 30 Oct 2005 20:59 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 8:27am (CST-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
The problem here is that this could apply to any ailment. I wouldn't
think you would need a 600 person study to figure it out. This is simple
human nature.
                                                          Ron
///////////////
The 600 person study was done to determine in what percentage of hcv
patients had quality of life issues become a factor and how many in that
group had improvements in that regard once they acheieved SVR.  What
don't you get, Ron?  If you had 'any ailment' that caused you
significant quality of life issues, wouldn't you do your best to get rid
of that ailment?  Correct me if I'm wrong, LOL, but doesn't the majority
of your 'road work' consist of running from the truth?  Sorry for the
last comment, it's my 'simple human nature' at work.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 01:22 GMT
Well you have convinced me of one thing.  Tx does cause brain damage.
I am sorry its causing you quality of life issues.  You sound like one
of the bushie butt sucking androids who goes with what ever the party
line is.  Try and find a little hightened awarness and think for
yourself sometimes. You might find it refreshing.

                               Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 01:36 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 4:22pm (CST-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
Well you have convinced me of one thing. Tx does cause brain damage. I
am sorry its causing you quality of life issues. You sound like one of
the bushie butt sucking androids who goes with what ever the party line
is. Try and find a little hightened awarness and think for yourself
sometimes. You might find it refreshing.
                                                                Ron
///////////
And you just sound like a plain old idiot.  
Elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 02:29 GMT
I have to tell you, On the board over the last few years I have noticed
that it is always YOU having problems with other people. Ray Charles
can see that you are the problem.  If I am in error, and TX does not
cause brain damage please consult professional help.

                                              Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 02:58 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 5:29pm (CST-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
I have to tell you, On the board over the last few years I have noticed
that it is always YOU having problems with other people. Ray Charles can
see that you are the problem. If I am in error, and TX does not cause
brain damage please consult professional help.
                                                                                              Ron
//////////////
That's because I"m brutally honest and I don't care for a.sholes like
you.  Your posts in this thread reveal you to be an uneducated fool that
thinks he can outrun anybody and everything, including the virus.
You're a fuckstick.  I think you should invest all your money in Vertex.
My money is on Taco Bell because I can think 'outside the bun'.  
elmo  

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 03:43 GMT
Yep I have heard it before everyone is f.cked and you are right. Yep a
Bushie.  Get a life or at least try and live one instead of living not
to die and not living at all.  Not only are you brain dead but a panty
waist with out the courage to live. Allways afraid.  I wish I could
provide you a backbone.   So sad.

                                                    Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 03:43 GMT


Ray Charles can see that you are the problem. If I am in error,  <snip>
Ron
///////////////
By the way, Ray Charles was one of the 3 out of 100 that died from their
hepatitis.  ahahahahahaha   You're such a f.cking idiot, Ron.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 04:13 GMT
Wow I knew you would say that.  Only reason why I said ray instead of
stevie.  You eat it up as fast as its put out.  Yep a Bushie.

                                           Ron
kjoh - 31 Oct 2005 04:21 GMT
Go away Ron.  You're boring and useless.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 05:03 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 10:21pm (CST+1)
From: kjohyayhoo@nospamyahoo.com (kjoh)
Go away Ron. You're boring and useless.
//////////
Besides, there are more potholes that need filling before winter sets
in.  hehe  (roadwork....yada, yada)
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 04:54 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 7:13pm (CST-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
Wow I knew you would say that. Only reason why I said ray instead of
stevie. You eat it up as fast as its put out. Yep a Bushie.
                                                                                        Ron
///////////
Stevie Charles?  ahahahahahahah!!!!

If you're referring to the opposite sex, then I guess you could call me
a 'bushie'.  I've never voted for anyone named Bush and I make a point
of voting in every election.  
elmo
(think 'Taco Bell')

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 05:26 GMT
Well that explains it.

Ron
Doug - 31 Oct 2005 05:49 GMT
Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2005, 7:13pm (CST-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
Wow I knew you would say that. Only reason why I said ray instead of
stevie. You eat it up as fast as its put out. Yep a Bushie.
Ron
///////////
Stevie Charles?  ahahahahahahah!!!!

If you're referring to the opposite sex, then I guess you could call me
a 'bushie'.  I've never voted for anyone named Bush and I make a point
of voting in every election.
elmo
(think 'Taco Bell')

ewwwww echhhhh you voted for Kkkkkkerrrry yeesh.  you did?  I can't believe
voted in line with ronny!  I admit it was a hard choice but  kerry ain't
outside the bun.  Hey when are you going to put those new pictures up?  Got
some more like that babe in the Catsuit ;-) you know it is Hallooween.....
Boo!    doogie
smith21347@msn.com - 31 Oct 2005 05:52 GMT
Wow I bet you have big thighs.   Huge!!!    Ha Ha Ha  Yuck!!!

                     Ron
Gordo Mondragon - 31 Oct 2005 13:19 GMT
Ron -

This group really provides value to people who are trying to cope with
Hep C and its treatment.

I know it's fun to throw insults at people who are far away but it
doesn't do any good for the people who are hurting - just the opposite,
it makes them stay away.

All I'm asking is that you think about why you're participating in this
group and focus on the good parts of it.

Thanks

> Wow I knew you would say that.  Only reason why I said ray instead of
> stevie.  You eat it up as fast as its put out.  Yep a Bushie.
>
>                                             Ron
JV - 31 Oct 2005 17:12 GMT
Ron what is your problem your disrupting the space here? Your comment
below is far from the truth. We are not in the 60s.  think out side the
box. Comparing interferon tx to a bunch of your junkie low life friends
is quite lame and advertises your complete lack of knowledge as to what
is going on in here.. We don't need no flak from a rookie like you with
a big mouth. Things are tough enough for those on tx who need support
and not flack.
Are you planning to do tx or what? If you do I suggest you change your
tune as this place is a life saver for many. Whats wrong with being
nice? Sweep under your door step before you start sweeping under others.
Clean up your act.
Juanita  

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
(smith21347@msn.com)
You people that spout TX remind me of a group of junkies. I remember in
the 60's when so many of my friends started shooting dope and for some
reason they were always trying to make me become one of them. There
seemed to be this need for them to have everyone around them to be
junkies so they could feel more secure. The difference here is you use
the fear factor. A lot of people feel safer because everyone takes their
shoes off before getting on a plane, not me it just smells bad.
                                                                                                                            Ron
Thomas Wagner - 31 Oct 2005 04:36 GMT
>The problem here is that this could apply to any ailment.  I wouldn't
>think you would need a 600 person study to figure it out.  This is
>simple human nature.

What??? Now you're making no sense whatsoever. Well, DUH! If you have an
ailment that causes you to have a reduced quality of life, and you have
the chance to cure that ailment, then why wouldn't you? In the case of
HCV, curing the ailment is a rough ride, and we're all hoping that the
ride will be smoother in a few years with the advent of new meds. But
even now the ride isn't so bad that it causes more damage than the virus
when left untreated. Temporary problems are frequent and can in some
cases make continuation of treatment impossible. But permanent damage
from treatment is rare when doctor and patient know what they're doing.
This group helps at least the patients to know.

Your bragging about "close contacts" with new developments is laughable.
You're constantly posting the same stuff in new packaging (after all,
Vertex hasn't completed any new trials yet) as soon as Vertex tries to
push its stock. How is that helping anyone now? It's still
pie-in-the-sky stuff, only a completed phase 3 trial will clearly show
whether the stuff works with an acceptable safety profile or not. And
both Vertex and Idenix (and all others) are far away from phase 3.

As I posted repeatedly, I do believe that really new meds finally will
be available somewhere around 2010, though not necessarily from Vertex.
But there is no guarantee, and no amount of "close contact" and posting
of press releases will change that. Basing decisions about your health
on believing the self-serving statements of companies trying to get
their developments financed is a bit shortsighted.

But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong...
Thomas
Signature

To reach me, complete my last name in the address.

Thip - 29 Oct 2005 17:50 GMT
> No I don't think I am wrong.  I have had the virus since the late 60's
> and I am 60 now.  I am one of those in the Vast Majority who will die
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>        Ron

Interesting.  I've had it since 1974.  When I was diagnosed in 2002, I was
at Stage 2.  Within 2 years, I was Stage 4.

Lifestyle changes aside, you CANNOT predict the progress of this disease.
It will do what it wants no matter what you do.
smith21347@msn.com - 29 Oct 2005 19:14 GMT
Sorry to hear how quickly things have changed for you.  I agree there
is nothen you can do with lifestyle changes to change what ever course
the virus takes.  I hope that VX-950 or something will come along
before any more damage takes place.  It all might be in the Genes.  My
wife of 35 years never got it or if she did she cleared without even
knowing it. I went to a family reunion of hers and they had these
boards layed out with the family tree and all that stuff and the thing
that struck me was that her family in the 17 and 18 hundreds were
living into their 80's and even 90's. I thought People just didn't live
that long back then. She never has had a problem with viruses not even
the flu.  I guess thats why all the literature says Hep-c virus may or
might cause liver damage. It never says it will.  I am in close contact
with both Vertex and Idenix and will update the board when ever I hear
anything.  There still is 50% of people with Geno 1 that can't get rid
of the virus with Peg.

                                                     Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 01:58 GMT
It all might be in the Genes. My wife of 35 years never got it or if
she did she cleared without even knowing it.
///////////
How do you know she doesn't have it now?  If you tell me she was tested
for it and has no virus, then I'd have to conclude you haven't done your
homework, that you're an idiot and that you can't add 2+2 (based on what
you said above)
elmo  
Think outside the box.....eat Taco Bell.    

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 Oct 2005 02:09 GMT
I am in close contact with both Vertex and
Idenix.....<snip>                                            Ron
///////////////////
ahahahahahahaha!!!  I think you have them mixed up with Burger King.  
elmo  

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Red Dwarf - 29 Oct 2005 08:59 GMT
Hi Russ, et al,
It was interesting to me what you had to say about seeing your H.S. buddy
and finding out how you were initially infected.I guess the period between
exposure(shooting drugs) and developing acute hepatitis was about 3 or 4
months, and that can skew your recollection of events.I had acute hep twice
in 72 and 75. The second time I got sick I was on vacation with a bunch of
friends on a 55 ft. Chris Craft boat and was having Bloody Marys on the fan
tail of the boat tied up at Edgartown, Martha's Vineyard, off the coast of
Massachusetts.For some unknown reason the smell of cigarette smoke made me
ill, and I was unable to drink any further(sh.t). My eyes were yellow, as
well as my skin. My friends took me to the local hospital, and the next
thing I knew, they were in a panic trying to get shots of Gamma Globulin,
while I was suddenly treated like a leper.A short flight from there to
Boston and home in the burbs, and I had a second stay in an isolation
ward.It sucked big time. The only thing that made that hospital bearable was
that my G.F. at the time made conjugal visits almost daily(thank goodness
for isolation rooms) and she never developed hep at all. A nurse did walk in
at a most inopportune time, gawked at us,(I guess she couldn't believe her
eyes), then walked out again, and never came in again without knocking
first.At least I have some slightly amusing memories amongst all the crap I
had to deal with.

But I digress, my point is that in 1982 I moved to California, and lost
touch with all of the buddies I grew up with.Gradually as I called home
sometimes, one or another of my brothers would tell me which of my old
friends had died, until most if not all were gone forever. This included my
1st cousin Alain(god rest his soul) with whom I first experienced different
drugs.I can still hear his voice,("Hey Johnny, check this out, I just copped
today, lets get high").He and they, all succumbed to one sort of liver
disease or another. I believe that what saved my life was moving cross
country alone, starting a new career I enjoyed, and lost contact with all of
them. What for me, was a lark, turned to be a lifetime of heavy drug use for
them, and they paid the supreme price for their sins(actually choices, but
sins sounds more dramatic).I really feel for them, especially Alain, as
until the day he died, he could not and would not stop drinking and
drugging.About the only illicit substance I use now is the weed, when
available, and can afford it. As most of you know now that I suffer from
chronic pain from a hip problem, and must use narcotics(legally prescribed
methadone and oxycodone) for relief.

I still have some difficulty understanding all of their deaths, and am
sometimes in denial of it. As I understand it cirrhosis is a particularly
nasty and messy way to die, and holds no appeal to me at all. Yet, so many
DO die from it, whether from hepatitis, or  alcoholism. I'm fairly sure I
know from whom I originally contracted the disease, but he is gone also.But
for some reason I still survive.I have to believe there is some reason for
all this and my being alive, although I may never figure it out. I can
hardly believe I had to be talked into treatment, as I had read and heard
about all of the negative's  related to TX, but I AM glad I did the
treatment. It means I will live a little longer(thank you), and perhaps may
see my daughter go to college and marry, and all of that. It was indeed the
suckiest 48 weeks of my life, as there was for me, other factors involved. I
do indeed value all of the stories I read here, and hope that by sharing my
story, it may help others in some way or another. Thanks for sharing Russ,
and all of you out there in Hep land, lets keep posting, and kill or
eliminate that nasty  dragon hep C.
John in Honolulu

>I think Elmo is saying before NOT treating you should be very careful and
> make an educated decision. And it is fact that HCV causes many problems
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>>
>>                                                               Ron
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 14:56 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 7:08am (CDT-2)
From: smith21347@hotmail.com (smith21347@msn.com)
You people that spout TX remind me of a group of junkies. I remember in
the 60's when so many of my friends started shooting dope and for some
reason they were always trying to make me become one of them. There
seemed to be this need for them to have everyone around them to be
junkies so they could feel more secure. The difference here is you use
the fear factor. A lot of people feel safer because everyone takes their
shoes off before getting on a plane, not me it just smells bad.
                                                                                                                            Ron
//////////
See what you got for listening to your friends?  You shouldn't otta done
it.  Be sure and leave your shoes on, wouldn't want you to feel
insecure.
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Jake - 28 Oct 2005 18:02 GMT
Dunno folks. My wife and I decided to go through the tx based on
everything we read about the disease, what it does, and what it can do
if untreated. Her liver is not scarred and she is under 40 (37). We
still decided to go through this.

She is going through her mini-hell right now, but is sticking to it (no
pun intended). It's the best thing for her (and, essentially, us as a
family) based on everything that we have read. If it works, it will be
awesome. If it does not, THEN we will start waiting for the other drugs
on the horizon.

I will say, however, that the knowledge (and even disagreements) of
this groups' participants is vast and appreciated.
Russ - 28 Oct 2005 20:32 GMT
Jake, your wife is in my thoughts this morning. I haven't forgotten what it
was like.

But somehow, even though it didn't work, I think I am a better person in the
long run. One thing I learned doing treatment, Patience, patience....

Well to your wife, hang in there! Day at a time, drink your water, eat
when/what you can.

Signature

Russ

Visit Alaska @ http://www.tannersacre.com

> Dunno folks. My wife and I decided to go through the tx based on
> everything we read about the disease, what it does, and what it can do
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I will say, however, that the knowledge (and even disagreements) of
> this groups' participants is vast and appreciated.
Jake - 28 Oct 2005 21:02 GMT
Russ,

What amazes me is that you are not bitter and still a proponent of the
therapy even after it was a torture for you and still didn't work. I
think that speaks volumes of your beliefs and your integrity. Very much
appreciate it in these difficult times.

And thanks very much for the prayers.
Frank - 29 Oct 2005 02:53 GMT
>Russ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>And thanks very much for the prayers.

I'm on my 3rd shot right now and fortunately, the Peg isn't bothering me much
other than the actual injection, which still feels like such an unnatural act. The
Rib is giving me some brain fog and in general a slow-down feeling.  But after
the first shot, a symptomatic burning in my eyes that has plagued me the last
few years has completely disappeared after the first shot. Amazing.

While I know this will get worse with the anemia and all, the point is, already,
I'm glad I've decided to do this. I'm not waiting for VX anything. That thing
could blow up in an eye blink. However, I am glad I waited for 1-shot Peg.  3
shots a week?  No way.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 15:21 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 8:53pm From:
HangininThere@verizon.com (Frank)
In article <1130529598.158395.247340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
ethics@gmail.com says...
Russ,
What amazes me is that you are not bitter and still a proponent of the
therapy even after it was a torture for you and still didn't work. I
think that speaks volumes of your beliefs and your integrity. Very much
appreciate it in these difficult times.
And thanks very much for the prayers.
I'm on my 3rd shot right now and fortunately, the Peg isn't bothering me
much other than the actual injection, which still feels like such an
unnatural act. The Rib is giving me some brain fog and in general a
slow-down feeling. But after the first shot, a symptomatic burning in my
eyes that has plagued me the last few years has completely disappeared
after the first shot. Amazing.
While I know this will get worse with the anemia and all, the point is,
already, I'm glad I've decided to do this. I'm not waiting for VX
anything. That thing could blow up in an eye blink. However, I am glad I
waited for 1-shot Peg. 3 shots a week? No way.
/////////
I did the 3 shots per week regimen my first round of tx.  It was a
continuous roller-coaster ride that make me feel like sh.t every shot I
took.  The stuff didn't do a very good job keeping the dragon at bay,
either.  After just a few months, my viral load jumped way up there and
I quit tx at 6 months.  Peg interferon keeps a therapeutic dose in your
system all week so that the virus doesn't have a chance to regroup
between doses.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 29 Oct 2005 15:07 GMT

Re: VX-950 Recent Clinical and Corporate Highlights  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 10:02am (CDT-2)
From: ethics@gmail.com (Jake)
Dunno folks. My wife and I decided to go through the tx based on
everything we read about the disease, what it does, and what it can do
if untreated. Her liver is not scarred and she is under 40 (37). We
still decided to go through this.
She is going through her mini-hell right now, but is sticking to it (no
pun intended). It's the best thing for her (and, essentially, us as a
family) based on everything that we have read. If it works, it will be
awesome. If it does not, THEN we will start waiting for the other drugs
on the horizon.
I will say, however, that the knowledge (and even disagreements) of this
groups' participants is vast and appreciated.
/////////
Take good care of your wife, Jake.  She's the only one you've got.  LOL.  
elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
 
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