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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / July 2005Liver Biopsy done today
Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a lightening strike going into my back and right shoulder. Held my breath and stab for a sample and the sample was stingy. Another stab and a viable sample. Demerol given for the pain. My side feels thick and heavy and the shoulder pain is subsiding. Will get results in a few weeks. My decision on treatment - peginterferon with riba or pegintron. Any suggestions or comments on which one. mags you got a bad one, man. did they use ultrasound to guide the needle? cactus jammies--------------- > Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, > another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > mags No ultrasound - just counted down my ribs and gave me the big stab. I have to admit I am in one heck of alot of pain here but I feel it is bruising. mags > you got a bad one, man. did they use ultrasound to guide the needle? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> mags No ultrasound?? AAAHHHHHHHHH!!! You don't live in Spain, do you? You should have let Dr Killborn do your biopsy. He uses a pick axe for the biopsy, but at least he sedates you. Geeeez!!!!! Elmo //////// No ultrasound - just counted down my ribs and gave me the big stab. I have to admit I am in one heck of alot of pain here but I feel it is bruising. mags "Cactus Jammies" <not@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message news:KsTFe.139584$HI.95830@edtnps84... you got a bad one, man. did they use ultrasound to guide the needle? cactus jammies--------------- "mags" <chillnil@rogers.com> wrote in message news:49udnTDb0K5GZ3rfRVn-vQ@rogers.com... Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a lightening strike going into my back and right shoulder. Held my breath and stab for a sample and the sample was stingy. Another stab and a viable sample. Demerol given for the pain. My side feels thick and heavy and the shoulder pain is subsiding. Will get results in a few weeks. My decision on treatment - peginterferon with riba or pegintron. Any suggestions or comments on which one. mags http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum that doctor is a heartless butcher. I wouldn't want to even have to talk to that sorry a.s again... what can I say you must have a pretty skanky HMO? cactus jammies ///////////////////////////////////////////////// > No ultrasound - just counted down my ribs and gave me the big stab. I > have to admit I am in one heck of alot of pain here but I feel it is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> >>> mags >No ultrasound - just counted down my ribs and gave me the big stab. I have >to admit I am in one heck of alot of pain here but I feel it is bruising. > >mags No bending yourself into a big "C", then exhaling to the point of blacking out, before the doc hit you with the biopsy punch? I always figured that's why they don't want to sedate the patient - too much cooperation required to get the lungs out of the way and get the liver up against the right part of the rib cage. I felt like a contortionist. fwiw, my bcld said guided biopsy when looking for HCV-related damage is probably rare; that guided needles are usually used on focused lesions (eg: HCC), not for generic surveys; and the needles used are typically too small diameter to get enough complete/undamaged liver "cores" to be able to accurately grade any damage. I've not tried to debunk any of that, btw, so its veracity is unconfirmed. I had what wind was left after the exhale part knocked right out of me when I got punched (unsedated/local only). My ribs are uniformly very tight (genetic) so the doc had a time of getting the needle through and positioned to use the punch, meanwhile I'm turning blue. The pain was minimal compared to the surprise, and while I was aware of the biopsy site for a few months, these days (over a year later) there's no lingering discomfort... Cheers - and here's hoping you have really low biopsy scores! /greyhackles Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post these messages. Must be my karma. One thing for sure, no sedation, no biopsy.  SignatureCody Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me. Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail. > On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:26:27 -0400, "mags" <chillnil@rogers.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > /greyhackles Most definitely happy with my fibrosure test results after reading these!! Cindy in Pa > Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post > these messages. Must be my karma. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > /greyhackles >Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post >these messages. Must be my karma. > >One thing for sure, no sedation, no biopsy. All in all, up front I'd have rather been hopelessly lost in the Red States than do the biopsy, but truthfully, the procedure wasn't a big deal after all. A couple of moments of surprise was pretty much what it came down to. Get it done, Cody. You're no ostrich... /greyhackles >>Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post >>these messages. Must be my karma. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > /greyhackles Oh, I will but I will make sure they give me sedation. Cody Cody, we're talking about minor discomfort for a short period of time. This f.cking toothache and extraction has been far worse than my biopsy. Nobody's liver exploded and they will all recover from their biopsies. Don't be a woos, git er dun!! The peace of mind and/or wake-up call will be worth whatever discomfort you'll experience. You aren't the kind of guy that cried and screamed every time you had to get a shot when you were a little kid, were you? Elmo /////////// Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post these messages. Must be my karma. One thing for sure, no sedation, no biopsy. SignatureCody Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me. Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail. "greyhackles" <greyhackles@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote No ultrasound - just counted down my ribs and gave me the big stab. I have to admit I am in one heck of alot of pain here but I feel it is bruising. mags No bending yourself into a big "C", then exhaling to the point of blacking out, before the doc hit you with the biopsy punch? I always figured that's why they don't want to sedate the patient - too much cooperation required to get the lungs out of the way and get the liver up against the right part of the rib cage. I felt like a contortionist. fwiw, my bcld said guided biopsy when looking for HCV-related damage is probably rare; that guided needles are usually used on focused lesions (eg: HCC), not for generic surveys; and the needles used are typically too small diameter to get enough complete/undamaged liver "cores" to be able to accurately grade any damage. I've not tried to debunk any of that, btw, so its veracity is unconfirmed. I had what wind was left after the exhale part knocked right out of me when I got punched (unsedated/local only). My ribs are uniformly very tight (genetic) so the doc had a time of getting the needle through and positioned to use the punch, meanwhile I'm turning blue. The pain was minimal compared to the surprise, and while I was aware of the biopsy site for a few months, these days (over a year later) there's no lingering discomfort... Cheers - and here's hoping you have really low biopsy scores! /greyhackles http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to post > these messages. Must be my karma. LOL! Cody, your karma may ensure that your biopsy is quick and painless. Karma aside, odds are that it will be quick and, well, relatively painless. The most frequent complaint about biopsies is that you get bored silly lying in one position for the required time after the procedure. Then there's that undeniable truth: a biopsy is the one and *only* method of determining degree of liver damage. And here's another undeniable truth: The worst fear, maybe the only fear, is a fear of the unknown. All the best to you. > One thing for sure, no sedation, no biopsy. > Cody No sh.t. Yeah, I agree. Waterspider >> Just when I was seriously thinking about having one done, you have to >> post these messages. Must be my karma. > > LOL! Cody, your karma may ensure that your biopsy is quick and painless. > Karma aside, odds are that it will be quick and, well, relatively > painless. I hope so. > The most frequent complaint about biopsies is that you get bored silly > lying in one position for the required time after the procedure. I never get bored. I like to think. > Then there's that undeniable truth: a biopsy is the one and *only* method > of determining degree of liver damage. And here's another undeniable > truth: The worst fear, maybe the only fear, is a fear of the unknown. All > the best to you. I'm sure you're right. >> One thing for sure, no sedation, no biopsy. >> Cody > > No sh.t. Yeah, I agree. > > Waterspider Yeah, to ease the unfounded fear ... Cody No ultrasound really weird they might as well been blind folded. They spend some time with ultrasound drawing maps on me with some kind of a black felt pen. The experience gave me a stomach ache and mild shoulder pain. Hopefully you will feel better tomorrow just stay still and kick back. As for Pegasys made by Roche and riba or Pegintron made by Schering and riba. My clinical trial nurse who had done dozens of trials with Pegasus interferon for 5 years was shocked by the results of thyroid problems she was encountering with Pegintron compared to the studies she did with Pegasus. I ended up on pegintron with thyroid problems as well. Good luck and hope you feel better soon keep an eye on your temp cause you had a really rough time of it. Juanita > Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, > another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > mags Take the riba too. I don't think there's much difference between PegIntron and Pegasys when it comes to SVR rates, but I had less severe side effects with Pegasys. Sorry to hear your biopsy was painful. At least it's over with, eh? Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Hello Mags. Ive been wondering about you. Glad youre ok. Dont thrash around too much for a couple days. I should fess up here that I was among those who had a nasty experience with the liver biopsy too. I was happily sedated, the procedure went fine, I laid on my side in Recovery for 3 hours then streched around a bit. Boom. Felt like a palette of bricks dropped on my stomach. I wretched and turned into a sweat bag, the nurses had a rather bloody time of it trying to get IV and demerol into me multiple times while I spent the rest of the night in the ER. Images showed i was still alive, the GI determined that it was probably bleeding inside ligament capsule that surrounds the liver. My ID guy said it was the worst biopsy he had ever had. Yahoo. Lived to tell. But the fortunate results showed barely stage 1 fibrosis. So as I say, dont thrash around too much for a couple days. Good to hear from you. Kathy Week 24/48 commences tomorrow Thanks Kathy. Are you still working full time? How are your side effects - I worry about what I am in for. So far I have been told the biopsy will be painless - that was a lie and I would only be sick for 2 days after my shots and feel fine - why don't I beleive that? Mags > Hello Mags. Ive been wondering about you. Glad youre ok. Dont thrash > around too much for a couple days. I should fess up here that I was among [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Kathy > Week 24/48 commences tomorrow Hi Mags - I felt crummy in the liver zone for at least a week after biopsy, but it wasnt really painful after I got home from the hospital. Just scary. I dont work. Im housewife from hell. A good cook though. Kathy Mags what kind of quacks are you seeing? Telling you lies. I know everybody is different on interferon but to tell you, your only going to be sick for 2 days after the shot and you'll be fine is another big fat lie. This dr. needs a biopsy done by 3 blind mice and then a shot of interferon in his head. Is there any possibility you can find a Dr. that has real knowledge of dealing with interferon tx as this one dose not seem very informed, not to mention the drugs it somethings takes to resolve the awful side effects to keep you going if needed. You better have a talk with him and ask ?s on how he deals with sides if he even knows what they are. Such as low red cells low white cells, are they gonna run labs every month to check thyroid and everything else like viral load and a number of other things its very important this is done, very important. Gee whiz their lying or very stupid. The fact that they did a liver biopsy with NO guidance from ultrasound is not a good sign at all. Juanita Re: Liver Biopsy done today Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Jul 27, 2005, 8:31pm (PDT+3) From: chillnil@rogers.com (mags) Thanks Kathy. Are you still working full time? How are your side effects - I worry about what I am in for. So far I have been told the biopsy will be painless - that was a lie and I would only be sick for 2 days after my shots and feel fine - why don't I beleive that? Mags "kjoh" <kjnotspam@notspammontana.com> wrote in message news:60d60dfe8e59c5bc219907b272925f4a@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com... Hello Mags. Ive been wondering about you. Glad youre ok. Dont thrash around too much for a couple days. I should fess up here that I was among those who had a nasty experience with the liver biopsy too. I was happily sedated, the procedure went fine, I laid on my side in Recovery for 3 hours then streched around a bit. Boom. Felt like a palette of bricks dropped on my stomach. I wretched and turned into a sweat bag, the nurses had a rather bloody time of it trying to get IV and demerol into me multiple times while I spent the rest of the night in the ER. Images showed i was still alive, the GI determined that it was probably bleeding inside ligament capsule that surrounds the liver. My ID guy said it was the worst biopsy he had ever had. Yahoo. Lived to tell. But the fortunate results showed barely stage 1 fibrosis. So as I say, dont thrash around too much for a couple days. Good to hear from you. Kathy Week 24/48 commences tomorrow Belive it or not he is one of the top specialist in Ontario. I have seen him on tv etc. I think I will go with the pegasys after what everyone was saying in here. Feeling a bit better today but have slept off and on since the proceudre. hw > Mags what kind of quacks are you seeing? Telling you lies. I know > everybody is different on interferon but to tell you, your only going to [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Kathy > Week 24/48 commences tomorrow I"m having a hard time believing that a top specialist would ever again do a biopsy that wasn't ultrasound guided. If he did one without the benefit of ultrasound, then he's not a top doc, not even close. What tv program did you see him on? Wheel of Fortune? Elmo ////////// Belive it or not he is one of the top specialist in Ontario. I have seen him on tv etc. I think I will go with the pegasys after what everyone was saying in here. Feeling a bit better today but have slept off and on since the proceudre. hw "JV" <Meling333@webtv.net> wrote in message news:7665-42E83D3E-125@storefull-3175.bay.webtv.net... Mags what kind of quacks are you seeing? Telling you lies. I know everybody is different on interferon but to tell you, your only going to be sick for 2 days after the shot and you'll be fine is another big fat lie. This dr. needs a biopsy done by 3 blind mice and then a shot of interferon in his head. Is there any possibility you can find a Dr. that has real knowledge of dealing with interferon tx as this one dose not seem very informed, not to mention the drugs it somethings takes to resolve the awful side effects to keep you going if needed. You better have a talk with him and ask ?s on how he deals with sides if he even knows what they are. Such as low red cells low white cells, are they gonna run labs every month to check thyroid and everything else like viral load and a number of other things its very important this is done, very important. Gee whiz their lying or very stupid. The fact that they did a liver biopsy with NO guidance from ultrasound is not a good sign at all. Juanita Re: Liver Biopsy done today Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Jul 27, 2005, 8:31pm (PDT+3) From: chillnil@rogers.com (mags) Thanks Kathy. Are you still working full time? How are your side effects - I worry about what I am in for. So far I have been told the biopsy will be painless - that was a lie and I would only be sick for 2 days after my shots and feel fine - why don't I beleive that? Mags Hello Mags. Ive been wondering about you. Glad youre ok. Dont thrash around too much for a couple days. I should fess up here that I was among those who had a nasty experience with the liver biopsy too. I was happily sedated, the procedure went fine, I laid on my side in Recovery for 3 hours then streched around a bit. Boom. Felt like a palette of bricks dropped on my stomach. I wretched and turned into a sweat bag, the nurses had a rather bloody time of it trying to get IV and demerol into me multiple times while I spent the rest of the night in the ER. Images showed i was still alive, the GI determined that it was probably bleeding inside ligament capsule that surrounds the liver. My ID guy said it was the worst biopsy he had ever had. Yahoo. Lived to tell. But the fortunate results showed barely stage 1 fibrosis. So as I say, dont thrash around too much for a couple days. Good to hear from you. Kathy Week 24/48 commences tomorrow http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum > Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, > another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > suggestions or comments on which one. > mags Do you mean Pegetron? That is peginterferon with riba. Waterspider >> Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, >> another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Waterspider "Peg-Intron" is Schering's pegylated IFN alpha-2b product. As you noted, when combined with Ribavirin it is marketed as "Pegetron"... If I was not on blood thinners, I would have had one done. I did have a liver biopsy done some years ago, when it was acute hep, and this doctor missed my liver twice, I was livid and screaming for an American doctor, and not a foreign student.There was no pain killers or sedation, as they said that it would slant the results. Man, thats stress. John > Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, > another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > mags Did they tie you down? Elmo /////// If I was not on blood thinners, I would have had one done. I did have a liver biopsy done some years ago, when it was acute hep, and this doctor missed my liver twice, I was livid and screaming for an American doctor, and not a foreign student.There was no pain killers or sedation, as they said that it would slant the results. Man, thats stress. John "mags" <chillnil@rogers.com> wrote in message news:49udnTDb0K5GZ3rfRVn-vQ@rogers.com... Well that was an experience. Local given in right side of my ribs, another larger needle inserted and they hit a nerve bundle - it was like a lightening strike going into my back and right shoulder. Held my breath and stab for a sample and the sample was stingy. Another stab and a viable sample. Demerol given for the pain. My side feels thick and heavy and the shoulder pain is subsiding. Will get results in a few weeks. My decision on treatment - peginterferon with riba or pegintron. Any suggestions or comments on which one. mags http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum Not tied, but held down by a few interns and orderlies. It was no fun at all and I'll never forget it. I would not hesitate to do it now though. Especially with the advent of ultrasound which did not exist in the early-70's, and with the medication today. Back in the 70's they had not yet detected hepc, they told me I had active chronic hepatitis, and do not donate blood. Ahhh the miracle of modern science. 20 or 30 years from now this will be looked at as the dark ages of medicine. John > Did they tie you down? > Elmo [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum All of you that have had these medieval biopsies are frightening all those who have not had theirs yet!! I was told that ultrasound guiding was so that the needle would not puncture intestines. I was also out cold or at least don't remember anything and felt no pain at all. Anyone who has not been through this yet should talk to the the doctor that is doing this procedure and make sure they are not going to draw and quarter you first. Sue |
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