Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / June 2005
OT OT OT news from France, rejection of EU constitution
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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 01:50 GMT This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago.
cactus jammies ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// France's Chirac admits defeat in EU referendum CTV.ca News Staff
French President Jacques Chirac has admitted defeat in the European Union constitution referendum.
"France has expressed itself democratically,'' Chirac said in a short TV address to his country Sunday night. "It is your sovereign decision, and I take note.''
With 83 per cent of votes counted, the Interior Ministry said the vote was split 57-43 against ratifying the EU constitution.
The result is a slap in the face for the French political establishment, which pioneered the idea of Europe's integration.
Nearly 42 million people were eligible to vote on the charter Sunday. Opinion polls in the run-up to the vote predicted a 'No' victory.
All 25 EU members must ratify the constitution's text, so France's 'No' vote alone kills its chances of ratification. Nine nations -- Austria, Hungary, Italy, Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain -- already have ratified the treaty by referendum or parliamentary vote.
The Netherlands has scheduled its vote for Wednesday. Opposition there has been running around 60 per cent.
Philipped de Villiers, a leading French 'No' campaigner, declared: "There is no more constitution.
"The people have massively said 'No.' It is necessary to reconstruct Europe on other foundations that don't currently exist."
The charter was designed to pull European nations together, but it has left people divided. Backers say it would strengthen the EU economically and allow the continent to speak with one voice politically, while opponents say it will strip nations of national identity and trigger an influx of cheap labour.
The anti-constitution vote may have an impact on Chirac's political future.
In recent weeks, his popularity ratings have plunged to 39 percent, and there is widespread speculation that a 'No' vote would force him to fire unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.
Chirac has warned that 'No' would mean "Europe would be broken down, searching for an impossible consensus."
While the two major French political parties -- the Socialist Party and Chirac's UMP -- pushed for a 'Yes' vote, the 'No' side is a gathering of parties from the political spectrum's extreme ends.
Both Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the right-wing National Front, and Marie-Georges Buffet, leader of the Communist Party, voted 'No' on the referendum.
With files from the Associated Press
Thomas Wagner - 30 May 2005 06:38 GMT >This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full >of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago. Well... actually, you predicted nothing of the sort. You were rambling something about France not adopting the Euro (which was adopted there long ago), about the EU collapsing, and about GDR elections (the GDR ceased to exist in 1990). A strange mix of half-baked ideas and misinterpretations. All that happened yesterday was that the French rejected the new European constitution that was criticized by many for various valid reasons. A pretty big blow for those who were trying to create a United States of Europe, but not very significant for the future of the EU as an economic union. The new constitution would have significantly changed the balance of power in the EU, now it's likely that things will progress more slowly.
If you want to look into the future economic collapse of a large nation, you might want to look no further than the USA. With the US as the world's largest debtor (after being a lender for a long time) and no foreseeable way of ever repaying those debts, things could get interesting pretty soon...
Thomas
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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 10:20 GMT Thomas. I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with their balance of payments shortly. I did predict that the French would reject the EU constitution, I did predict that the English will keep the Pound by way of the re-election of Brit Labour, even though Blair seems ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to not accept the EU constitution either. So unless I somehow made a major mistake between France and England, then I think I was on. The French Left is all over the map on this. That is truly unfortunate. Those types of associations in the political landscape of Europe are vital to resisting the total capitulation to Transnationalism. The influence of guest workers' cultural concepts and economic migrants from Eastern Europe seem to be destablizing the notion of comfort in former Europe. People are afraid and jealous. BTW, I have just heard "Germany" in the news, not what kind of a republic it is, I got that from Deutsche Wella, by the way. They don't say federated this or democratic that.
They have Goethe, and that explains all things German. (ha hahaha no offence)
Oh, about predicting the future of the EU, and its continued progress? Nothing happens in a vacuum. These popular rejections have great influence in shaping national political campaigns, so look out for the loose hatches on board.
Cactus Jammies
>>This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was >>full [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Thomas Thomas Wagner - 30 May 2005 18:48 GMT >Thomas. >I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to >not accept the EU constitution either. If you predicted that, you made it in quite fuzzy terms, fuzzy enough that nobody could understand them. But that's a good way to make one's predictions come true, you can always claim you were right later. Nostradamus was the master in that... ;-)
> So unless I somehow made a major >mistake between France and England, then I think I was on. The French Left [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >destablizing the notion of comfort in former Europe. People are afraid and >jealous. A lot of it is economic rather than cultural. The "polish plumber" was frequently mentioned as a factor in France - cheap labor from the new EU members being able to move and work freely within the EU, depressing wages. Not a valid complaint in the long term (the migrants have to live where they work so they can't do it on the cheap for long) but disruptive now. Immigration from Muslim countries, like Moroccans in France and Turks in Germany, is a different matter, and already has led to major problems. That's why the possible EU membership of Turkey is such a hotly debated topic that's going to stay problematic. But those migrations are not new, they have been going on for decades, and the respective countries didn't collapse.
> BTW, I have just heard "Germany" in the news, not what kind of a >republic it is, I got that from Deutsche Wella, by the way. They don't say >federated this or democratic that. GDR is the acronym for "German Democratic Republic", or the (former) East Germany. The English acronym for Germany is FRG (Federal Republic of Germany), but since reunification that's rarely used. It's just Germany now.
>They have Goethe, and that explains all things German. (ha hahaha no >offence) >Oh, about predicting the future of the EU, and its continued progress? >Nothing happens in a vacuum. These popular rejections have great influence >in shaping national political campaigns, so look out for the loose hatches >on board. Nothing is certain, but today's Europe is quite different from the Europe many Americans still imagine (no wonder, the information they get in school and the media about Europe begins 1932 and ends 1945). Although nation states still exist, and will exist as cultural concepts for a long time to come, a large part of the population (especially the younger generation) already considers itself as basically European instead of strictly German or French. The current brouhaha and a few nationalist nutcases notwithstanding, there is no return to the divided Europe of old.
Thomas
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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 19:56 GMT Thomas, For better or worse, I truly hope you are correct about this. I've heard it said that usually the reactionaries have the louder voice during by-elections and referendae. So the Never Bothered to vote faction might be a large contributor to the scene. The Radio Nederland broadcast team has a jolly time with the cynicism of the issue.
I never did explain that Blair-election-pound thought very well, but what I guess I was trying to say was that it (the predicaments that Britain has, alone) also contriubute to the general spiraling cynicism of the European electorate. It has to come about but the real person on the street has to be given some feeling of ownership, I think..
cactus jammies ////////////////////////////////////////////////
> Nothing is certain, but today's Europe is quite different from the > Europe many Americans still imagine (no wonder, the information they get [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thomas Cactus Jammies - 31 May 2005 14:05 GMT More/ US debts. I started this string months ago to counter a blantant broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA. I decided to take him on, first by actually denying his assertions that the europeans would overcome the americans because of the confident future of the EU. There is no confident future of the EU. The panic has already started in the capitals of the nations of Europe, deciding to get ahead of the populist wave and either not sponsor the referendum in their country, as Blair is considering, or wishing the issue away with temporary confusion as is coming from the Chiraq forces, but who can blame them?
I have no partisan stake in this, other than I hate to see community suffer for commerce. They should balance somehow. to keep each other going. This part below is about how the President of the Bank of Canada is warning the world to beware of the current patterns of US trade and balance debits and deficits.
cactus jammies
>>Thomas. >>I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to >>not accept the EU constitution either. http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/05/30/dodge-warning050530.html
U.S. living beyond means, Dodge warns Last Updated Mon, 30 May 2005 13:11:23 EDT
CBC News OTTAWA - Bank of Canada governor David Dodge offered a bankerly rebuke to the United States on Monday for its borrow-and-spendthrift ways, which he suggested are a threat to world economic stability.
Less directly, he chided nations such as China for rigging their currencies to boost exports while building up larger and larger foreign-exchange reserves, creating a lopsided world in which Asian savings finance U.S. spending.
David Dodge: 'A country's external indebtedness cannot keep growing indefinitely' (CP file photo) In the text of a speech to be given at a Montreal conference, the central bank chief warned of "large, global economic imbalances that have become the subject of increasing concern" to policy-makers.
"I am referring, of course, to the persistent and growing current account deficit in the United States that is mirrored by large current account surpluses elsewhere, especially in Asia."
His comments echo those of many economists who have watched the United States evolve from the world's greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor as Americans saved less, consumed more and imported more. China, meanwhile, took over much of the world's consumer-goods manufacturing and used its export earnings to soak up vast amounts of U.S. debt.
Supporters of the Bush administration have tended to argue that the three U.S. deficits - in international trade, current account and federal budget - do not matter to a superpower that prints the world's most widely used money.
Dodge said the imbalances won't go on forever.
"At some point, they will have to be resolved. Why? For one thing, a country's external indebtedness cannot keep growing indefinitely as a share of its GDP. Eventually, investors will begin to balk at increasing their exposure to that country, even if it is a reserve-currency country, such as the United States.
"For another thing, the buildup of foreign exchange reserves by Asian countries will, eventually, feed into domestic monetary expansion and lead to higher inflation. These imbalances will ultimately be resolved, either in an orderly, or in an abrupt, disorderly way."
A basic problem is the mismatch in national rates of saving, Dodge said.
"Specifically, over the past decade or so, we have seen many countries outside the United States increase their saving by a very large amount, while at the same time, the United States has reduced its saving and has become increasingly reliant on foreign borrowing."
He said Asian countries built up foreign-exchange reserves partly as a cushion against a recurrence of the region's 1997-98 economic crisis.
Thomas Wagner - 31 May 2005 15:29 GMT >More/ US debts. I started this string months ago to counter a blantant >broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA. I decided to take [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >considering, or wishing the issue away with temporary confusion as is coming >from the Chiraq forces, but who can blame them? But it seems that you're still confusing the failure of the EU constitution to get approval with the failure of the EU. That's baloney. The EU has existed and thrived without a constitution all this time, and it will continue to do so. The proposed constitution was the typical work of bureaucrats, with lots of clauses and sub-clauses and power plays built into a work that should have been simple and clear. That's why in those countries that actually asked their people instead of their politicians, it got rejected. Well, Duh! What did they expect? That people would just hold their noses and swallow the bad medicine for no palpable gain? The constitution was a POLITICAL, not an economic move. It would not have had any significant influence on economic policies, since those are already in place and work just fine without a U.S.E. with its own military and another layer of bureaucracy and pomp. It would not have changed economic reality, but it would have taken power away from the individual countries, and shifted the balance even more towards a central behemoth. All for an idea that already is lived reality for Europeans. Most love the idea of Europe, but not the idea of an all-powerful central bureaucracy. And that's what the vote was about. It will likely doom the constitution, and that's not a bad thing IMAO.
Thomas
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Alias - 31 May 2005 16:29 GMT The USA is f.cked. It's era is over. Look at the hundreds of thousands of homeless, underemployed or welfare mamas that that piss poor excuse for a country has. Then look at how many have died in a war that was based on a pack of lies. Look at the fact that the presidency has been stolen twice. Look at the fact that the prison population is one of the highest in the world with some of the worst conditions in the world. Look at the fact that many states murder people under the guise of capital punishment, aka, revenge. Look at the fact that Bush the Terrorist has the largest budget/trade deficit in the history of the USA. Look at the Patriot Act that has removed many civil rights from the citizens. Look at the fact that if you're on a terror list by mistake that you could do years in a stinking US prison without legal recourse, counsel or bail. Look at the fact that Florida just passed a law making it OK to shoot people dead on the street. Look at the fact that most of the USA's city streets are very dangerous at night and even during the day in some parts. Look at the report from Amnesty International regarding the abusive lack of civil rights in the USA.
And yes, folks, the underlying philosophy of the USA is right wing fundamental Protestant Christianity.
The EU overcame the USA decades ago and is now leaving the USA in the dust.
Alias
>>More/ US debts. I started this string months ago to counter a blantant >>broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA. I decided to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Thomas Cactus Jammies - 31 May 2005 17:41 GMT The EU will live on as a matter of fact, although now it will take maybe a decade for each nation state to adjust its part of the customs union to blunt further transnationalist expansions coming by way of lowest bottom line cut and thrust. Globalist Wrecking Ball economic pressures will not quit. But if the US dollar collapses in the meantime, by way of a huge intrest rate increase to prop it up, and the Chinese are left holding all that worthless greenback stock for goods that were overpriced by 70% according to their domestic manufacturing competitveness edge in the Nafta and Euro markets, we are all in BIG trouble. The One Child only policy of modern PR China is going to hit the demographics curves in a few years and the chinese will be contracting out labour to other less developed places of the hemisphere. I hear they're already doing some of that with Singaporean subcontractors.
Cactus Jammies
>>More/ US debts. I started this string months ago to counter a blantant >>broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA. I decided to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Thomas szozu - 31 May 2005 08:21 GMT > This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full > of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago. A lot of countries are concerned with loss of sovereignty and the bureaucrats in Brussels dictating every aspect of life. It's one thing to have free trade and the ability to go look for a job in another country, but people get pissed off with laws dictating how you are going to make your cheese or telling you to cut down ancient olive groves because your country is producing too much olive oil!
I am in favour of countries retaining their identities and tend to agree with the following: http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Whitney0530.htm http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Reichel0530.htm
Lana
ghibelno - 31 May 2005 09:00 GMT [...]
> A lot of countries are concerned with loss of sovereignty and the > bureaucrats in Brussels dictating every aspect of life. It's one thing to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lana Hi Lana,
first of all, how are you?
I've read last news you've been posting lately and I'm happy for your results. I do wish you an healty life from now on. But I'm also aware of the bad news. And I'm sorry.
Talking of Europe, I do agree with you. I see no problem in getting those advantages we can get from being a "union" of states. But I think that Europe would (economically) benefit from states keeping their own identities.
cheers, jeeb.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 May 2005 12:56 GMT I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution. And it appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and Bellgian Waffles. :-) Elmo
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
szozu - 01 Jun 2005 13:36 GMT > I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution. And it > appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and > Bellgian Waffles. :-) > Elmo By the way, have you read about the guy who started the whole freedom fries business? He has had a change of heart and has now stated that he thinks invading Iraq was a bad idea.
Lana
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 01 Jun 2005 14:01 GMT Re: OT OT OT news from France, rejection of EU constitution Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Jun 1, 2005, 2:36pm (CDT+7) From: hoppbunny at hotmail com (szozu) <elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message news:28762-429C50FA-318@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net... I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution. And it appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and Bellgian Waffles. :-) Elmo By the way, have you read about the guy who started the whole freedom fries business? He has had a change of heart and has now stated that he thinks invading Iraq was a bad idea. Lana ///////// I think anyone who still thinks it was a good idea to invade Iraq probably has rocks in their head. Elmo
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile
http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
szozu - 01 Jun 2005 13:35 GMT > Hi Lana, > > first of all, how are you? I'm doing OK considering the circumstances. I was very depressed and ended up goig to a psychiatrist who gave me a couple of drugs to try that didn't work. He said he would try one more thing before giving up and prescribed Ixcel. It has cleared up my depression, but I find myself jiggling my leg a lot when sitting. Oh well, I guess there are consequences with every pharmeceutical.
How are you doing?
> I've read last news you've been posting lately and I'm happy for your > results. I do wish you an healty life from now on. But I'm also aware > of the bad news. > And I'm sorry. C'est la vie ! This too shall pass.
> Talking of Europe, I do agree with you. I see no problem in getting > those advantages we can get from being a "union" of states. > But I think that Europe would (economically) benefit from states > keeping their own identities. Viva la France ! Viva la Italia ! I enjoy the differences between the countries and would hate to see a completely homogenized Europe with Brussels dictating every aspect of our lives.
Ciao, Lana
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