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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / June 2005

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OT OT OT   news from France, rejection of EU constitution

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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 01:50 GMT
This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full
of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago.

cactus jammies
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
France's Chirac admits defeat in EU referendum
CTV.ca News Staff

French President Jacques Chirac has admitted defeat in the European Union
constitution referendum.

"France has expressed itself democratically,'' Chirac said in a short TV
address to his country Sunday night. "It is your sovereign decision, and I
take note.''

With 83 per cent of votes counted, the Interior Ministry said the vote was
split 57-43 against ratifying the EU constitution.

The result is a slap in the face for the French political establishment,
which pioneered the idea of Europe's integration.

Nearly 42 million people were eligible to vote on the charter Sunday.
Opinion polls in the run-up to the vote predicted a 'No' victory.

All 25 EU members must ratify the constitution's text, so France's 'No' vote
alone kills its chances of ratification. Nine nations -- Austria, Hungary,
Italy, Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain -- already
have ratified the treaty by referendum or parliamentary vote.

The Netherlands has scheduled its vote for Wednesday. Opposition there has
been running around 60 per cent.

Philipped de Villiers, a leading French 'No' campaigner, declared: "There is
no more constitution.

"The people have massively said 'No.' It is necessary to reconstruct Europe
on other foundations that don't currently exist."

The charter was designed to pull European nations together, but it has left
people divided. Backers say it would strengthen the EU economically and
allow the continent to speak with one voice politically, while opponents say
it will strip nations of national identity and trigger an influx of cheap
labour.

The anti-constitution vote may have an impact on Chirac's political future.

In recent weeks, his popularity ratings have plunged to 39 percent, and
there is widespread speculation that a 'No' vote would force him to fire
unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

Chirac has warned that 'No' would mean "Europe would be broken down,
searching for an impossible consensus."

While the two major French political parties -- the Socialist Party and
Chirac's UMP -- pushed for a 'Yes' vote, the 'No' side is a gathering of
parties from the political spectrum's extreme ends.

Both Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the right-wing National Front, and
Marie-Georges Buffet, leader of the Communist Party, voted 'No' on the
referendum.

With files from the Associated Press
Thomas Wagner - 30 May 2005 06:38 GMT
>This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full
>of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago.

Well... actually, you predicted nothing of the sort. You were rambling
something about France not adopting the Euro (which was adopted there
long ago), about the EU collapsing, and about GDR elections (the GDR
ceased to exist in 1990). A strange mix of half-baked ideas and
misinterpretations. All that happened yesterday was that the French
rejected the new European constitution that was criticized by many for
various valid reasons. A pretty big blow for those who were trying to
create a United States of Europe, but not very significant for the
future of the EU as an economic union. The new constitution would have
significantly changed the balance of power in the EU, now it's likely
that things will progress more slowly.

If you want to look into the future economic collapse of a large nation,
you might want to look no further than the USA. With the US as the
world's largest debtor (after being a lender for a long time) and no
foreseeable way of ever repaying those debts, things could get
interesting pretty soon...

Thomas
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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 10:20 GMT
Thomas.
I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with
their balance of payments shortly.  I did predict that the French would
reject the EU constitution, I did predict that the English will keep the
Pound by way of the re-election of Brit Labour, even though Blair seems
ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to
not accept the EU constitution either.  So unless I somehow made a major
mistake between France and England, then I think I was on.  The French Left
is all over the map on this.  That is truly unfortunate.  Those types of
associations in the political landscape of Europe are vital to resisting the
total capitulation to Transnationalism.  The influence of guest workers'
cultural concepts and economic migrants from Eastern Europe seem to be
destablizing the notion of comfort in former Europe.  People are afraid and
jealous.  BTW, I have just heard "Germany" in the news, not what kind of a
republic it is, I got that from Deutsche Wella, by the way.  They don't say
federated this or democratic that.

They have Goethe, and that explains all things German.  (ha hahaha no
offence)

Oh, about predicting the future of the EU, and its continued progress?
Nothing happens in a vacuum.  These popular rejections have great influence
in shaping national political campaigns, so look out for the loose hatches
on board.

Cactus Jammies

>>This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was
>>full
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Thomas
Thomas Wagner - 30 May 2005 18:48 GMT
>Thomas.
>I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to
>not accept the EU constitution either.

If you predicted that, you made it in quite fuzzy terms, fuzzy enough
that nobody could understand them. But that's a good way to make one's
predictions come true, you can always claim you were right later.
Nostradamus was the master in that... ;-)

>  So unless I somehow made a major
>mistake between France and England, then I think I was on.  The French Left
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>destablizing the notion of comfort in former Europe.  People are afraid and
>jealous.

A lot of it is economic rather than cultural. The "polish plumber" was
frequently mentioned as a factor in France - cheap labor from the new EU
members being able to move and work freely within the EU, depressing
wages. Not a valid complaint in the long term (the migrants have to live
where they work so they can't do it on the cheap for long) but
disruptive now. Immigration from Muslim countries, like Moroccans in
France and Turks in Germany, is a different matter, and already has led
to major problems. That's why the possible EU membership of Turkey is
such a hotly debated topic that's going to stay problematic. But those
migrations are not new, they have been going on for decades, and the
respective countries didn't collapse.

> BTW, I have just heard "Germany" in the news, not what kind of a
>republic it is, I got that from Deutsche Wella, by the way.  They don't say
>federated this or democratic that.

GDR is the acronym for "German Democratic Republic", or the (former)
East Germany. The English acronym for Germany is FRG (Federal Republic
of Germany), but since reunification that's rarely used. It's just
Germany now.

>They have Goethe, and that explains all things German.  (ha hahaha no
>offence)
>Oh, about predicting the future of the EU, and its continued progress?
>Nothing happens in a vacuum.  These popular rejections have great influence
>in shaping national political campaigns, so look out for the loose hatches
>on board.

Nothing is certain, but today's Europe is quite different from the
Europe many Americans still imagine (no wonder, the information they get
in school and the media about Europe begins 1932 and ends 1945).
Although nation states still exist, and will exist as cultural concepts
for a long time to come, a large part of the population (especially the
younger generation) already considers itself as basically European
instead of strictly German or French. The current brouhaha and a few
nationalist nutcases notwithstanding, there is no return to the divided
Europe of old.

Thomas
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Cactus Jammies - 30 May 2005 19:56 GMT
Thomas,
 For better or worse, I truly hope you are correct about this.  I've heard
it said that usually the reactionaries have the louder voice during
by-elections and referendae.  So the Never Bothered to vote faction might be
a large contributor to the scene.  The Radio Nederland broadcast team has a
jolly time with the cynicism of the issue.

I never did explain that Blair-election-pound thought very well, but what I
guess I was trying to say was that it (the predicaments that Britain has,
alone) also contriubute to the general spiraling cynicism of the European
electorate.  It has to come about but the real person on the street has to
be given some feeling of ownership, I think..

cactus jammies
////////////////////////////////////////////////
> Nothing is certain, but today's Europe is quite different from the
> Europe many Americans still imagine (no wonder, the information they get
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Thomas
Cactus Jammies - 31 May 2005 14:05 GMT
More/ US debts.  I started this string months ago to counter a blantant
broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA.  I decided to take
him on, first by actually denying his assertions that the europeans would
overcome the americans because of the confident future of the EU.  There is
no confident future of the EU.  The panic has already started in the
capitals of the nations of Europe, deciding to get ahead of the populist
wave and either not sponsor the referendum in their country, as Blair is
considering, or wishing the issue away with temporary confusion as is coming
from the Chiraq forces, but who can blame them?

I have no partisan stake in this, other than I hate to see community suffer
for commerce.  They should balance somehow. to keep each other going.  This
part below is about how the President of the Bank of Canada is warning the
world to beware of the current patterns of US trade and balance debits and
deficits.

  cactus jammies

>>Thomas.
>>I am quite aware of the dollar problems the Americans will be having with
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>ambivalent, and that the Dutch who vote on Wednesday, will likely vote to
>>not accept the EU constitution either.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/05/30/dodge-warning050530.html

U.S. living beyond means, Dodge warns
Last Updated Mon, 30 May 2005 13:11:23 EDT

CBC News
OTTAWA - Bank of Canada governor David Dodge offered a bankerly rebuke to
the United States on Monday for its borrow-and-spendthrift ways, which he
suggested are a threat to world economic stability.

Less directly, he chided nations such as China for rigging their currencies
to boost exports while building up larger and larger foreign-exchange
reserves, creating a lopsided world in which Asian savings finance U.S.
spending.

David Dodge: 'A country's external indebtedness cannot keep growing
indefinitely' (CP file photo)
In the text of a speech to be given at a Montreal conference, the central
bank chief warned of "large, global economic imbalances that have become the
subject of increasing concern" to policy-makers.

"I am referring, of course, to the persistent and growing current account
deficit in the United States that is mirrored by large current account
surpluses elsewhere, especially in Asia."

His comments echo those of many economists who have watched the United
States evolve from the world's greatest creditor nation to the greatest
debtor as Americans saved less, consumed more and imported more. China,
meanwhile, took over much of the world's consumer-goods manufacturing and
used its export earnings to soak up vast amounts of U.S. debt.

Supporters of the Bush administration have tended to argue that the three
U.S. deficits - in international trade, current account and federal budget -
do not matter to a superpower that prints the world's most widely used
money.

Dodge said the imbalances won't go on forever.

"At some point, they will have to be resolved. Why? For one thing, a
country's external indebtedness cannot keep growing indefinitely as a share
of its GDP. Eventually, investors will begin to balk at increasing their
exposure to that country, even if it is a reserve-currency country, such as
the United States.

"For another thing, the buildup of foreign exchange reserves by Asian
countries will, eventually, feed into domestic monetary expansion and lead
to higher inflation. These imbalances will ultimately be resolved, either in
an orderly, or in an abrupt, disorderly way."

A basic problem is the mismatch in national rates of saving, Dodge said.

"Specifically, over the past decade or so, we have seen many countries
outside the United States increase their saving by a very large amount,
while at the same time, the United States has reduced its saving and has
become increasingly reliant on foreign borrowing."

He said Asian countries built up foreign-exchange reserves partly as a
cushion against a recurrence of the region's 1997-98 economic crisis.
Thomas Wagner - 31 May 2005 15:29 GMT
>More/ US debts.  I started this string months ago to counter a blantant
>broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA.  I decided to take
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>considering, or wishing the issue away with temporary confusion as is coming
>from the Chiraq forces, but who can blame them?

But it seems that you're still confusing the failure of the EU
constitution to get approval with the failure of the EU. That's baloney.
The EU has existed and thrived without a constitution all this time, and
it will continue to do so. The proposed constitution was the typical
work of bureaucrats, with lots of clauses and sub-clauses and power
plays built into a work that should have been simple and clear. That's
why in those countries that actually asked their people instead of their
politicians, it got rejected. Well, Duh! What did they expect? That
people would just hold their noses and swallow the bad medicine for no
palpable gain? The constitution was a POLITICAL, not an economic move.
It would not have had any significant influence on economic policies,
since those are already in place and work just fine without a U.S.E.
with its own military and another layer of bureaucracy and pomp. It
would not have changed economic reality, but it would have taken power
away from the individual countries, and shifted the balance even more
towards a central behemoth. All for an idea that already is lived
reality for Europeans. Most love the idea of Europe, but not the idea of
an all-powerful central bureaucracy. And that's what the vote was about.
It will likely doom the constitution, and that's not a bad thing IMAO.

Thomas
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Alias - 31 May 2005 16:29 GMT
The USA is f.cked. It's era is over. Look at the hundreds of thousands of
homeless, underemployed or welfare mamas that that piss poor excuse for a
country has. Then look at how many have died in a war that was based on a
pack of lies. Look at the fact that the presidency has been stolen twice.
Look at the fact that the prison population is one of the highest in the
world with some of the worst conditions in the world. Look at the fact that
many states murder people under the guise of capital punishment, aka,
revenge. Look at the fact that Bush the Terrorist has the largest
budget/trade deficit in the history of the USA. Look at the Patriot Act that
has removed many civil rights from the citizens. Look at the fact that if
you're on a terror list by mistake that you could do years in a stinking US
prison without legal recourse, counsel or bail. Look at the fact that
Florida just passed a law making it OK to shoot people dead on the street.
Look at the fact that most of the USA's city streets are very dangerous at
night and even during the day in some parts. Look at the report from Amnesty
International regarding the abusive lack of civil rights in the USA.

And yes, folks, the underlying philosophy of the USA is right wing
fundamental Protestant Christianity.

The EU overcame the USA decades ago and is now leaving the USA in the dust.

Alias

>>More/ US debts.  I started this string months ago to counter a blantant
>>broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA.  I decided to
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Thomas
Cactus Jammies - 31 May 2005 17:41 GMT
The EU will live on as a matter of fact, although now it will take maybe a
decade for each nation state to adjust its part of the customs union to
blunt further transnationalist expansions coming by way of lowest bottom
line cut and thrust.  Globalist Wrecking Ball economic pressures will not
quit.  But if the US dollar collapses in the meantime, by way of a huge
intrest rate increase to prop it up, and the Chinese are left holding all
that worthless greenback stock for goods that were overpriced by 70%
according to their domestic manufacturing competitveness edge in the Nafta
and Euro markets, we are all in BIG trouble.  The One Child only policy of
modern PR China is going to hit the demographics curves in a few years and
the chinese will be contracting out labour to other less developed places of
the hemisphere.  I hear they're already doing some of that with Singaporean
subcontractors.

Cactus Jammies

>>More/ US debts.  I started this string months ago to counter a blantant
>>broadcast from Alias that the EU would overcome the USA.  I decided to
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Thomas
szozu - 31 May 2005 08:21 GMT
> This is for a certain American ex-pat living in Spain who told me I was full
> of s--- about this when I predicted a couple of months ago.

A lot of countries are concerned with loss of sovereignty and the
bureaucrats in Brussels dictating every aspect of life. It's one thing to
have free trade and the ability to go look for a job in another country, but
people get pissed off with laws dictating how you are going to make your
cheese or telling you to cut down ancient olive groves because your country
is producing too much olive oil!

I am in favour of countries retaining their identities and tend to agree
with the following:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Whitney0530.htm
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Reichel0530.htm

Lana
ghibelno - 31 May 2005 09:00 GMT
[...]
> A lot of countries are concerned with loss of sovereignty and the
> bureaucrats in Brussels dictating every aspect of life. It's one thing to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Lana

Hi Lana,

  first of all, how are you?

I've read last news you've been posting lately and I'm happy for your
results. I do wish you an healty life from now on. But I'm also aware
of the bad news.
And I'm sorry.

Talking of Europe, I do agree with you. I see no problem in getting
those advantages we can get from being a "union" of states.
But I think that Europe would (economically) benefit from states
keeping their own identities.

cheers,
jeeb.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 31 May 2005 12:56 GMT
I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution.  And it
appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and
Bellgian Waffles.  :-)
Elmo  

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
szozu - 01 Jun 2005 13:36 GMT
> I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution.  And it
> appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and
> Bellgian Waffles.  :-)
> Elmo

By the way, have you read about the guy who started the whole freedom fries
business? He has had a change of heart and has now stated that he thinks
invading Iraq was a bad idea.

Lana
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 01 Jun 2005 14:01 GMT

Re: OT OT OT news from France, rejection of EU constitution  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Jun 1, 2005, 2:36pm (CDT+7)
From: hoppbunny at hotmail com (szozu)
<elmoemerson@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28762-429C50FA-318@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
I'm glad the French didn't ratify the European constitution. And it
appears the Bells will do the same (ding ding). I like French Toast and
Bellgian Waffles. :-)
Elmo
By the way, have you read about the guy who started the whole freedom
fries business? He has had a change of heart and has now stated that he
thinks invading Iraq was a bad idea.
Lana
/////////
I think anyone who still thinks it was a good idea to invade Iraq
probably has rocks in their head.  
Elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
szozu - 01 Jun 2005 13:35 GMT
> Hi Lana,
>
>    first of all, how are you?

I'm doing OK considering the circumstances. I was very depressed and ended
up goig to a psychiatrist who gave me a couple of drugs to try that didn't
work. He said he would try one more thing before giving up and prescribed
Ixcel. It has cleared up my depression, but I find myself jiggling my leg a
lot when sitting. Oh well, I guess there are consequences with every
pharmeceutical.

How are you doing?

> I've read last news you've been posting lately and I'm happy for your
> results. I do wish you an healty life from now on. But I'm also aware
> of the bad news.
> And I'm sorry.

C'est la vie ! This too shall pass.

> Talking of Europe, I do agree with you. I see no problem in getting
> those advantages we can get from being a "union" of states.
> But I think that Europe would (economically) benefit from states
> keeping their own identities.

Viva la France ! Viva la Italia ! I enjoy the differences between the
countries and would hate to see a completely homogenized Europe with
Brussels dictating every aspect of our lives.

Ciao,
Lana
 
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