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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Hepatitis / November 2004

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Question about 2nd shot

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ghibeluno - 02 Nov 2004 09:47 GMT
Hi everybody,

   I've a question for you all.
I live far from the place where I take PegIntron.
So they gave me quite a big amount of Interferon to go on for 6 weeks.

The problem is that my fridge started to not to work properly a few hours
after I had my first shot.
Last monday I noticed that my fridge temperature had gone over the allowed
range for pegIntron.
As you know this is between 5 and 8 Celsius. My fridge had gone up to 12/13
for about 12 or (I don't know for sure) 24 hours.
I became paranoid.
I mean, I had 5 boxes of pegIntron there and the idea that it had become
useless or harmful made me feel really sick.
First of all I called my doc who told me that she would have called Shering
Europe to have more details about the fact.
I did it on my own.
I could talk with a doc at Shering here in Italy who was very kind and told
me that pegIntron can stay out of the above range during its production
chain.
More into details, he told me that pegIntron can be manipulated, during its
production, in environments which have a temperature of up to 25 Celsius,
for a maximum of 72 hours.
He told me that this actually never happens, too.
He also told me that meds like pegIntron can become ineffective if they
aren't stored at the right temperature but it's quite difficult that they
become dangerous too, as they should be changhing their molecular structure.
This can be caused by a *very high* temperature, not like 12 or 13 Celsius.

Reported all this to my doc, who told me to go on with shots.

So I had my second shot saturday night. I took Paracetamol as soon as I had
the shot and went to bed.
I slept all night long. The day after, sunday, I had a constant temperature
of 37,5 Celsius but no other side effect. I just felt all right.
It seemed to me that sides were too mild. I mean, I was happy and I did hope
that my reaction to the med was mild.
But I started to think also that second shot had no effect on me or it had a
light effect.
I called my doc back again.
She said: ".. it's possible that you had a severe reaction to the first shot
(I had high temperature the first night and lower the day after, I felt ok
on monday) and a milder to the second... but, in any case, we'll be asking
for PegIntron boxes to be replaced..."

So, here are the questions:
1)    I do suspect that PegIntron became partially ineffective because of
the temperature. What do you think about?
2)    Is there anybody who had mild sides on second shot being sick on the
first one?
3)    I felt very strange during all the week after the first shot: dry
skin, swet et cetera. I'm feeling just all right today. Do you think it's
normal?
4)    Assuming the first point is true, does anybody knows whether a
"lighter" shot (the 2nd) can compromise the treatment.

Thanks for reading.
Any help would be appreciated.

jeeb.
Paul - 02 Nov 2004 12:37 GMT
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:47:06 +0100, "ghibeluno"
<ghibelno___NOSPAMMEPLEASE___@yahoo.it>, in message ID
<2uovpeF2d97ilU1@uni-berlin.de>, in the newsgroup
alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote:

>So, here are the questions:
>1)    I do suspect that PegIntron became partially ineffective because of
>the temperature. What do you think about?

Hi.  My fridge temperature also climbed above the norm for limited
periods.  It fluctuated between 0.5 degrees and 13 degrees but never
for more than a few hours.  I don't know if it affected the drug
efficiency but I did clear the virus.

>2)    Is there anybody who had mild sides on second shot being sick on the
>first one?

Yes.  My first shot gave me flu like symptoms.  The second gave me a
mild yukkie feeling.  Shots 3 - 6 didn't touch me. From then on it
varied a lot but it never felt like the first one again.

>3)    I felt very strange during all the week after the first shot: dry
>skin, swet et cetera. I'm feeling just all right today. Do you think it's
>normal?

Probably.  It varies a lot from person to person.  During the first
couple of months, apart from the first shot, my most difficult bit was
the second week.  Even that was very manageable.  The best bit was on
week six when I told my now ex-boss to shove his job up his arse.

>4)    Assuming the first point is true, does anybody knows whether a
>"lighter" shot (the 2nd) can compromise the treatment.

I had concerns about this too.  It bothered me that, as the drugs
weren't hurting me too much, that they might not have been hurting the
virus either.  It took maybe 6 - 8 weeks for the sides to really start
building up.  I suspect that this was the ribavirin kicking in.  It is
difficult to label a particular time period as "good" or "bad" as
there was much fluctuation.

Before tx started, I bought a thermometer that recorded temperature
fluctuatins in the fridge.  It showed the max and min temps since the
previous reset.  Well, if the truth be told, I bought a new fridge too
as the old one was leaking.

Signature

Paul

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szozu - 02 Nov 2004 13:11 GMT
> So I had my second shot saturday night. I took Paracetamol as soon as I had
> the shot and went to bed.
> I slept all night long. The day after, sunday, I had a constant temperature
> of 37,5 Celsius but no other side effect. I just felt all right.
> It seemed to me that sides were too mild. I mean, I was happy and I did hope
> that my reaction to the med was mild.

The first shot is normally the killer shot. After that the sides are MUCH
milder for the majority of patients. Personally, I don't know of anyone who
had those kind of "hit by a Mac truck" effects after their first shot, apart
from a couple of people who DIDN'T get that on their first shot and had it
happen after the second one.

I think what you're experiencing is normal. Bear in mind that people who
travel take their peg in an insulated container packed with ice. I'm sure
that the temperature is much higher than that of a fridge, so I think your
peg is probably OK. It generally takes much higher temps to cause the meds
to deteriorate and even then, it would normally cause only a mild decrease
in efficacy. The instructions are to look at the solution and see if there
is any yellowing, in which case the advice is not to use it.

Lana
ghibeluno - 02 Nov 2004 13:51 GMT
> The first shot is normally the killer shot. After that the sides are MUCH
> milder for the majority of patients. Personally, I don't know of anyone who
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Lana

Thanks Lana,

   and thanks to Paul, too.
My doc called me this morning, after I posted the message.
She told me they will replace the PegIntron.

No more worrying about it then.
Ah... and I bought a new fridge, too.
Can't think that my health depends on a fu**ing fridge.

cheers,
jeebie.
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 02 Nov 2004 15:51 GMT
Sounds like you've already gotten the right answers to your questions,
so I won't add to that discussion.  I was going to recommend that you
keep your interferon at a neighbor's, but since you bought a new one,
that's great.  Now just make sure it doesn't freeze while you're trying
to get it adjusted to the right temp.  hehe
Elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
ghibeluno - 02 Nov 2004 16:39 GMT
> Sounds like you've already gotten the right answers to your questions,
> so I won't add to that discussion.  I was going to recommend that you
> keep your interferon at a neighbor's, but since you bought a new one,
> that's great.  Now just make sure it doesn't freeze while you're trying
> to get it adjusted to the right temp.  hehe

eheheh... yeah, you don't know how much right you are.
Me being a f.cking paranoid person, risked to freeze the poor pegIntron ...

cheers Elmo,

jeebie.
Anonymous - 04 Nov 2004 23:49 GMT
> eheheh... yeah, you don't know how much right you are.
> Me being a f.cking paranoid person, risked to freeze the poor pegIntron

Never fear. *We* are sending you the electicity bill soon.

The Electric Light Company
Michael L. Arends - 03 Nov 2004 04:30 GMT
szozu answered:

> The first shot is normally the killer shot. After that the sides are MUCH
> milder for the majority of patients. Personally, I don't know of anyone who
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Lana

Lana,

I'm not the OP, but I'm going on my 5th shot, and so far my sides have
been more on the milder side. At first I wondered, but now I just count
myself lucky.

PS.. Are you the Lana on the family page?  If so, NICE picture.. ;-)
szozu - 03 Nov 2004 12:58 GMT
> szozu answered:

> PS.. Are you the Lana on the family page?  If so, NICE picture.. ;-)

You're being kind. I looked pretty crappy during tx.

Lana
Michael L. Arends - 04 Nov 2004 02:42 GMT
szozu answered:

>>szozu answered:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Lana

Actually, *ESPECIALLY* if that's a Picture of yourself on TX, I think
you looked pretty darned good.
keep up the good work..

Michael   ;-)
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 04 Nov 2004 15:23 GMT

Re: Question about 2nd shot  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2004, 5:42pm (CST-2)
From: mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net (Michael L. Arends)
szozu answered:
"Michael L. Arends" <mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oeCdnfmUKelazRXcRVn-hA@giganews.com...
szozu answered:
PS.. Are you the Lana on the family page? If so, NICE picture.. ;-)
You're being kind. I looked pretty crappy during tx.
Lana
Actually, *ESPECIALLY* if that's a Picture of yourself on TX, I think
you looked pretty darned good.
keep up the good work..
Michael   ;-)  
/////////
Got a case of the 'horn dogs', Mikey?  ahahahahahahahahah   I gotta
agree with you tho, Lana is one HOT mama!
Elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
Michael L. Arends - 05 Nov 2004 00:54 GMT
Smiling Wickedly,  elmoemerson@webtv.net answered:

>  
> Re: Question about 2nd shot  
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> agree with you tho, Lana is one HOT mama!
> Elmo

What do ya mean man?   ;-)
Buwahahahahaha No Honestly. I think ALL of the women on the family page
are pretty hot.

But gee That "Wanda", was it WINDY or something, the day you took that
picture?   Buwahahahahahahahaha
elmoemerson@webtv.net - 05 Nov 2004 02:36 GMT

Re: Question about 2nd shot  

Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2004, 3:54pm (CST-2)
From: mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net (Michael L. Arends)
Smiling Wickedly, elmoemerson@webtv.net answered:
Re: Question about 2nd shot
Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2004, 5:42pm (CST-2)
From: mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net (Michael L. Arends)
szozu answered:
"Michael L. Arends" <mlarends@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oeCdnfmUKelazRXcRVn-hA@giganews.com... szozu answered:
PS.. Are you the Lana on the family page? If so, NICE picture.. ;-)
You're being kind. I looked pretty crappy during tx. Lana
Actually, *ESPECIALLY* if that's a Picture of yourself on TX, I think
you looked pretty darned good.
keep up the good work..
Michael   ;-)
/////////
Got a case of the 'horn dogs', Mikey? ahahahahahahahahah   I gotta
agree with you tho, Lana is one HOT mama! Elmo
What do ya mean man?   ;-)
Buwahahahahaha No Honestly. I think ALL of the women on the family page
are pretty hot.
But gee That "Wanda", was it WINDY or something, the day you took that
picture?   Buwahahahahahahahaha  
///////////
Naw, it wasn't windy.  She was riding in the back of a fast pick me up
truck when the driver stepped on the brakes all of a sudden.  
Elmo

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
An Metet - 04 Nov 2004 23:32 GMT
> > szozu answered:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Lana

I'd call it out and out *Lying*
A.Melon - 05 Nov 2004 02:43 GMT
> > > szozu answered:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I'd call it out and out *Lying*

In fact, in the whole *family* the *only one* resembling a woman is *Mom* and
for Waterspider to be slagging down Hoofprints for drinking, with that picture
of *her* with a *dozen bottles* of liquor clutched in her grubby mits posted on
the internet is the biggest hypocrocy I have ever seen, but what should *We*
expect in ash-c?

*snigger*
Shawn - 06 Nov 2004 02:03 GMT
I thought you looked very "French". In that pic. I like it!
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I'd call it out and out *Lying*
Anonymous - 06 Nov 2004 06:40 GMT
> I thought you looked very "French". In that pic. I like it!

Bwaaaaaaa. You've seen one *Ukranian mail-order bride* and you've seen them
all. If you check out the "Russian Brides" web-site you will probably find one
that isn't past its sell-by-date and hasn't got a disease.
An Metet - 05 Nov 2004 03:34 GMT
> PS.. Are you the Lana on the family page?  If so, NICE picture.. ;-)

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaa. If you like *bug-eyes* that is.

*snigger*
Gordo Mondragon - 02 Nov 2004 14:54 GMT
[...]

> The problem is that my fridge started to not to work properly a few hours
> after I had my first shot.
> Last monday I noticed that my fridge temperature had gone over the allowed
> range for pegIntron.
> As you know this is between 5 and 8 Celsius. My fridge had gone up to 12/13
> for about 12 or (I don't know for sure) 24 hours.

For us in the states, 12C = 53.6F; 13C = 55.4F.

[...]

> More into details, he told me that pegIntron can be manipulated, during its
> production, in environments which have a temperature of up to 25 Celsius,
> for a maximum of 72 hours.

24C = 77F.

[...]

> So, here are the questions:
> 1)    I do suspect that PegIntron became partially ineffective because of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 4)    Assuming the first point is true, does anybody knows whether a
> "lighter" shot (the 2nd) can compromise the treatment.

I have no way of knowing if your interferon has gone bad, but based just
on the fact that 12/13C is still pretty cool, I personally would worry
less about it.

As far as what side effects to expect from the shot, I still don't know
what to plan for after 19 shots.  I know that in general, over time, my
response to the shots has lessened a lot.  I've never had the ability to
predict day by day how I'll feel (except that I will feel good the
morning before I take a shot) so I don't think that a lack of side
effects indicates that the shot didn't work.

I think, and my doctor thinks, that the 24 weeks and 48 weeks durations
are probably longer than most people need.  If you're getting the
interferon replaced I wouldn't worry about the 2nd shot possibly being
off.  You could also add in another month at the end, just to be safe -
but I bet when it comes time, you won't want to :)

Gordo
Russ - 02 Nov 2004 17:14 GMT
Hi ghib, welcome to the group.

My first shot made me fairly sick for a couple of days, the second shot was
pretty mild.

The third shot I felt nothing. I remember thinking that treatment was going
to be a piece of cake.... WRONG!

By the 10th shot I was fading fast. I had to quit work 3 months into
treatment. By 4 months I was just sicker then hell, partly due to my thyroid
malfunctioning. Things didn't get much better till about shot 44. The last
month things had eased up a bit. 3 weeks after my last shot I was feeling
pretty good. It's been 5 months since finishing treatment and I feel pretty
good.

Good luck on your treatment!

Signature

Russ

http://www.tannersacre.com

> Hi everybody,
>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> jeeb.
John - 04 Nov 2004 05:19 GMT
 
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