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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / April 2005alcohol and keppra
I am "argueing" with a "friend" (as I will call most of my epileptic email correspondents) that alcohol should NOT be consumed at ALL while on medication for epilepsy. A person asked for info and got an answer on the newsgroup that it was ok to drink once and a while even getting the Dr's permission they said. I just couldn't believe that a dr would ok alcohol with "any" medication, especially being epileptic... The comment reply when I questioned them was "not to take alcohol "WITH" the medication but hours AFTERWARDS it was ok"??? Anyone care to comment.......... ~..~ owlvee >I am "argueing" with a "friend" (as I will call most of my epileptic email >correspondents) that alcohol should NOT be consumed at ALL while on [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ~..~ > owlvee I went to http://efa.org and then their medications pages (to Right under Hot Links that comes up, topic Medications). Usually on Google or some sites you can enter e.g. keppra&alcohol and get any articles that contain both words. The efa site didn't work that way, so under keppra only, it brought up about 30 articles (usually those sort most to least likely to fit, depending on the programmer who set up the search methods). There was no mention of alcohol wrt. keppra. However, if you can find the manufacturer (from the pill bottle), or call the pharmacist, they might have a www address specific to the medication. My prescriptions for both Dilantin and Tegretol had a comment that care should be used when using alcohol with them. Elsewhere (when I was on Win.95) a site I had said that alcohol had a 'non-linear footprint' with respect to Tegretol, so 1 drink was like e.g. 1, 2 had effect of someone not on meds. of 3, 3 like 5 etc. Also if several of the meds. are absorbed by the kidneys, I'd expect alcohol would have the effect of flushing the blood level down faster, than if no alcohol was used. If that was the case with Keppra too (kidneys to bloodstream), then taking alcohol several hours after the dose is still going to disrupt the blood levels? and lower your seizure threshold. After going from a 'surprise' complex partial every 4-8 days, sometimes with no apparent trigger, to getting *full control with what I use now, I don't consider risk of going back into 'seizure land' worth whatever the value would be of drinking alcohol to see. G. > After going from a 'surprise' complex partial every 4-8 days, sometimes > with no apparent trigger, to getting *full control with what I use now, I > don't consider risk of going back into 'seizure land' worth whatever the > value would be of drinking alcohol to see. G I'm on both tegretol and keppra, and have about 2-3 complex partials per day added to all the other types of seizures I get, but I'm still with Clyde on this one. When I told my consultant that I used to go pubbing all week with my mates in my early 20s, but only drank Guinness, his reply was "That's OK, Guinness is good for you". I'm now 39 and have stopped going pubbing years ago, but I still enjoy the odd "Baily's" at Christmas, Birthdays, Anniversaries, or simply if I just pop in to see my mother-in-law. I don't think that neither my changes in medication, nor my swap from Guinness to Baily's, have changed the amount of seizures I get in any way at all though. Sofie >> After going from a 'surprise' complex partial every 4-8 days, >> sometimes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm on both tegretol and keppra, and have about 2-3 complex partials per > day added to all the other types of seizures I get, but I'm still with ********* > Clyde on this one. > > When I told my consultant that I used to go pubbing all week with my > mates in my early 20s, but only drank Guinness, his reply was "That's OK, > Guinness is good for you". ******************** > I'm now 39 and have stopped going pubbing years ago, but I still enjoy the > odd "Baily's" at Christmas, Birthdays, Anniversaries, or simply if I just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > at all though. > Sofie But you're still having seizures? ( I **'d above, where you said you still have 2-3 C.P. seizures a *Day ?) My Doctor told me in 1993 that I should 'hope for' 2-3 a **month, based on MRIs and CT scans when my CP seizures started. After Dilantin failed to control them from 1993-5, we moved to Tegretol CR (yours?), then Reduced that to Morning Dose only, but added a Second pill (Clobazam) at Night, then in AM too. Last seizures I had were Dec.1997, and June 1998. **2-3 seizures a Month my Doctor suggested for me (para.1). I think I had an occasional glass (1) of wine in mid 1990s. But I haven't had a Seizure for *7 years now, this coming June. On another post on this thread? I described how Tegretol has a 'non-linear footprint' (effect of 2-3+ drinks vs. 1) with respect to its effects, or potential of compromising the blood levels of the Tegretol. It's the drop in Blood Levels of the Tegretol, possibly some other AEDs I'm not aware of, that risk producing a 'withdrawal' type of C.P. seizure -- just like abruptly stopping taking the Tegretol. Chemically* there's no difference, except in strength? --whether the alcohol comes from brand x or bailey's or whatever. The efa site (mentioned on another thread?) was where I think I found its potential effect on Tegretol (Carbamazepine)-- in the Med'n Glossary. I took the printout to my Pharmacy, and they already had an Update on their 'Healthwatch' printout for Tegretol. They just forgot to print me a new page, adding what I had learned in the meantime on the internet, about alcohol. I *am surprised that a Doctor? would 'endorse' a Beer Maker, wrt. Tegretol (**s above). Chocolate is good for me, but Guinness doesn't make Chocolate. :-< G./ Howdy GR! Never thought that I'd be saying this to you, but... EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT! You are taking your (and your doctors) expectations FOR YOU based on YOUR PERSONAL CASE and projecting them as a standard for other people. There are some people out there who would KILL just to be able to get down to 10 seizures a day! After 35+ years I have come to the conclusion that being seizure free is probably not a reasonable expectation IN MY CASE. Everybody has their own reasonable expectations and their own quality of life issues. If a person is comfortable with their own situation, who are we to try to force our own personal standards on them?  SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > But you're still having seizures? ( I **'d above, where you said you still > have 2-3 C.P. seizures a *Day ?) My Doctor told me in 1993 that I should [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Tegretol (**s above). Chocolate is good for me, but Guinness doesn't make > Chocolate. :-< G./ Yes we are (all different -- at bottom here). I didn't intend to suggest they should 'live up to' or ALL attain my level of control. I replied because they use Tegretol (which I've used since 1994), and added my comments on adding Clobazam (though they don't), only to show I reduced my Tegretol when a second pill was added. But you removed the part in the middle where her Dr. told them is was 'OK to go Pubbing with AEDs' , and they had decided (while doing that) that control was impossible. It **Might be, you are correct. But Tegretol (for one) and mixing it with Alcohol have an advisory where I am, that I posted on another? thread about its effect beyond ~1 drink on seizure control or at least purging some AEDs (Tegretol and Dilantin for 2) faster than without it. I gave an example of where some of the seizure control might be getting affected beyond their Medical history or other considerations. Those were things they could *try in case they were producing their own Onset. If the no. of seizures didn't decrease, then that **wasn't one of the possible triggers. I never realized that some of my seizures were being 'Randomly' (it appeared) caused by using Grapefruit Juice with the AM dose of Tegretol once or twice a month, until I found a reference (here? or on efa medications site) wrt. that juice vs. other juices with different acids in the mix. The Doctor's suggestion that Baileys (? from Memory) that's 12% alcohol vs. Wine or Beer at 6% was OK to mix with Tegretol, I found surprising. (I was *Assuming that Baileys was Baileys Irish Creme which is a Liquer? but they *might have meant a type of Beer we don't have 'over here'. Text messaging, when posting for brevity, or across National lines, can be misinterpreted. ) There are lots of expected or unexpected triggers for some of the seizure types. On an open forum where they wanted input? and suggested a possible trigger they may not have been aware of, I thought they might have wanted to know what *might be compromising the Tegretol's level of control. G./ > Howdy GR! > Never thought that I'd be saying this to you, but... [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >> make >> Chocolate. :-< G./ > The Doctor's suggestion that Baileys (? from Memory) that's 12% alcohol > vs. Wine or Beer at 6% was OK to mix with Tegretol, I found surprising. (I > was *Assuming that Baileys was Baileys Irish Creme which is a Liquer? but > they *might have meant a type of Beer we don't have 'over here'. Text > messaging, when posting for brevity, or across National lines, can be > misinterpreted. ) Hello GR, I can't remember any of my GPs, or consultants ever saying that it was OK to mix any kind of medication whatsoever, with any alcoholic drink of any sort. Now that really would be a stupid thing to do, wouldn't it, especially by a doctor. As mentioned earlier by some of the newsgroup, that if you want to take alcohol, then it should only be taken in moderation, and several hours after you've had your meds. That was exactly the same way that my doctor put it to me, therefore, if you don't want to take it, then that's up to you too, after all, I couldn't agree more with Dave on how different and unique we all are. If unique and individual aren't the two most important words concerning how we react to meds, alcohol, or practically anything you can think of, then I don't know what is! Sofie I am sorry to have joined this thread a bit late, but thing is, I tend to visit this group only whenever I have had another seizure, which is about once a year. Lucky me. In the period autumn 1998-summer 2002 my seizure level was close to zero, and for that same period I was pretty close to being a non-drinker. Even now, I go out and drink only 5-6 times a year, normally without any problems, but I suppose I tend to drink a little too much, and may have a seizure or a close-to-seizure once a year or so. The strange thing is, though, that these seizures occur about one week after my night out, which makes me wonder whether this is just a coincidence, rather a connection with alcohol. In my heavy drinking years, seizures would appear the following morning/noon, but not any longer. Any ideas of when one might expect a seizure after a night on the town? regards, ole k > I am sorry to have joined this thread a bit late, but thing is, I tend > to visit this group only whenever I have had another seizure, which is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > longer. > Any ideas of when one might expect a seizure after a night on the town? Now that I think about it, my one seizure happened exactly one week after my last drunken outing during college. Wonder if alcohol can have an impact even a week out. I'm strongly with you on this one. Our medicatons take their toll on the body anyway, and adding alcohol to the mix simply doesn't make sense. I can feel the effect (severe dizziness) of a local anaesthetic at the dentist if I don't remember to ask for an adrenalin-free one and recently had a toxic reaction to the addition of a simple iron supplement, so drinking alcohol would be very stupid in my case. Fran I have a comparatively mild case of E, and I'm on the standard dosage (300 mg/d) of phenytoin/Dilantin. My neuro of 20 years ago said it was OK to "have a beer every now and then." (That was a different phase of me on phenytoin/Dilantin. I was off meds in the intervening years.) That's what I do now, with no ill effects. I've found it's best not to have more than one drink per day, or else there will be vision problems. When I started meds again, my neuro had me take about 4 days' worth of Dilantin in a day and a half (a 'load') - that's what 2 drinks makes me feel like today. Now, I drink about once or twice weekly, if that. Always after a full lunch and never after about 2pm. Again, as a caution, I have what I consider a MILD case of E. clyde > I am "argueing" with a "friend" (as I will call most of my epileptic > email correspondents) that alcohol should NOT be consumed at ALL while [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ~..~ > owlvee > I am "argueing" with a "friend" (as I will call most of my epileptic > email correspondents) that alcohol should NOT be consumed at ALL while > on medication for epilepsy. A person asked for info and got an answer on > the newsgroup that it was ok to drink once and a while even getting the > Dr's permission they said. I just couldn't believe that a dr would ok > alcohol with "any" medication, especially being epileptic... Hello, I read several books about epilepsy after my first and last tonic clonic seizure one year ago and in my case alcohol, lack of sleep and stress knocked me down to it and forced me to use medications to prevent seizures. I have not been drinking since then. When I had epilepsy in child hood, doctors strongly agues NOT to drink alcohol. That is what they told my parents. Of course, I grew up, became 15 years old and wanted to go out with friend and I started drinking with them. That went fine untill last year (I am 30 years old now). So, here is what the books say about it: 1. when using medications, one can drink two alcoholic consumptions...these will not interact with the medications; 2. alcohol will lower seizure threshold; 3. alcohol in combination with anti epileptic medication will increase the side effects of the alcohol itself like getting sleepy, drunk, etc. In no way one should drive a car after "just" taking thse two alcoholic consumptions. That should be it. In my opinion, stop drinking...taking two alcoholic consumptions really isn't worth it. SignatureThanks. Marco The Netherlands |
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