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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / February 2005

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Question - young toddler absence seizure

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blister91 - 07 Feb 2005 09:55 GMT
My 1.5 year old daughter this morning at breakfast suddenly this
morning stopped eating and stared into blank space. It lasted for a
good 20-30 seconds.

This is not the first time that this has happened. Thinking back, it
first started last summer (2003) and it happened once every few weeks
or so. She has not at any for quite a few months now, until this
morning.

I immediately wondered if it was a very mild form of epilepsy - a
petit mal or something like that?

Should we take her to our doctors? Or is this a very common thing that
she will grow out of?

Many thanks
CyberCafe - 07 Feb 2005 15:06 GMT
> My 1.5 year old daughter this morning at breakfast suddenly this
> morning stopped eating and stared into blank space. It lasted for a
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Should we take her to our doctors? Or is this a very common thing that
> she will grow out of?

Yes, this needs to be brought to her doctor's attention.  We had a couple
of clients at a sheltered workshop where I was employed whose seizures
basically involved nothing more than staring and unresponsiveness to
distractions or commands.  We also had an older baby come in for treatment
who had seizures without any change in body movement, posture, or anything
that was easily observed (her mother could tell though).

Sometimes people do stare for no reason.  I used to do that when I was a
kid because it seemed to rest my eyes.

Barb

> Many thanks
Julie - 07 Feb 2005 18:50 GMT
Welcome to our group.  I do think it is important to inform your doctor.
Here is a site that may answer some of your questions.  Please feel free
to ask the group any question and keep us informed.
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/answerplace/Medical/treatment/index.cfm

Take care,
Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

> My 1.5 year old daughter this morning at breakfast suddenly this
> morning stopped eating and stared into blank space. It lasted for a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Many thanks
blister72 - 10 Feb 2005 13:09 GMT
Hi there,

An update :

We took our daughter to our GP and mentioned the symptoms that we have
seen lately and he agreed that something was not quite right and
mentioned absence seizures. He tried to refer Beth to our local
children's hospital but was told that all epilepsy cases must first go
through accident & emergency!

So off we went to the accident&emergency department, and we told the
attending doctor what we saw and so on.
The doctor was quite dismissive that there is something wrong with Beth
and also kept commenting that absence seizures don't usually happen to
children under the age of 3!
He then went on to say that if Beth did have epilepsy, he couldn't
prescribe her drugs and so on. I was quite annoyed by that comment and
told him that we don't want him to prescribe drugs if it can be all
helped and that there is something wrong, and that it needs to be
identified.
He did comment that he was concerned with her speech and will be
refering her to a speech therepist!

Anyway, our GP is very good and is concerned too like we are. He has
said if we had any problems, we were to go back and he will then try to
arrange an appointment via a different area.

At least that we are aware of the condition and that we will keep a
close an on her, plus inform nursery what we have seen. I think we will
keep a diary and make a note of what we are seeing so then it will be
easier to explain.

I wonder if any of you had similar problems with what we have
experienced this morning?
G.Ross - 10 Feb 2005 15:53 GMT
> Hi there,
> An update :
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> I wonder if any of you had similar problems with what we have
> experienced this morning?

  You could check the Telephone book (or search for websites in UK?) to see
if there's a Local chapter of an Epilepsy Association nearby.   They might
have website or a library you could look through.   (Our Toronto Canada
Chapter, has had a Child Trained Councillor since about 1999, who
specializes in therapy and consultations etc. with Parents of Kids, plus she
runs a 'kids group' (targeted mostly at Teenagers newly diagnosed so far as
I know).
  *If your daughter's seizures (absences) were starting in one of her
Temporal Lobes (Dr. Geek stuff <- *I'm not a Dr.) , those could affect
Memory or new learning ability and if her speech etc. might be appearing to
be 'delayed' (if that's why they did the referral there) something like the
T.Lobe area *might affect that.   It would be of benefit to identify that,
as there might be extra help with learning workarounds or other skills that
might help with school so she doesn't accidentally get left behind because
it's not identified early.
  That's unfortunate above.   I *Hate "Experts" on what something is or
isn't.   So they don't use Medications on kids if she had Seizures
(absences).   That's the Best he could do?   We treat our Cars better than
that.

  If you look through Julie's Idaho site (address at end of her posts), or
the U.S. Ep. Foundation site.   Or try a Google or ?? search to look at 'the
Ketogenic Diet'.  That's a diet that works *best for kids (Dr. should have
known that if I 'trusted him'),  but only works for some types of seizures.
That should *ideally be monitored and planned with the Parents and the
Doctor.   And at that point the Dr. could do other tests to try identify why
it's Happening to begin with.   That would tell them if she's likely to
Outgrow this as she matures,  or if she might have to use some types of
pills after she's e.g. 16.
   Research and Developments in this area of Neurology are charging ahead
as more of us Baby Boomers age, so by the time she's 16, there will be *lots
of other therapies and medications tested and approved for use (by us olde
timers),  for her.
   **Alternatively when you find a *competent Neurologist, they can better
tell you whether the type she has is easily treatable and might *leave
altogether as she matures.

   I hope some of that helps.   Stay here, and keep us updated.   We have
people in about 12 timezones who read the group only 3-4x a week so there
will be other comments likely on your thread.     Good luck from Canada
(want some snow? )  G./

Mary Fisher - 10 Feb 2005 16:02 GMT
> Hi there,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> children's hospital but was told that all epilepsy cases must first go
> through accident & emergency!

Oh how ridiculous!

> So off we went to the accident&emergency department, and we told the
> attending doctor what we saw and so on.
> The doctor was quite dismissive that there is something wrong with Beth
> and also kept commenting that absence seizures don't usually happen to
> children under the age of 3!

It's getting worse ...

> He then went on to say that if Beth did have epilepsy, he couldn't
> prescribe her drugs and so on. I was quite annoyed by that comment and
> told him that we don't want him to prescribe drugs if it can be all
> helped and that there is something wrong, and that it needs to be
> identified.

Yes, good for you! Stick at it.

> He did comment that he was concerned with her speech and will be
> refering her to a speech therepist!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I was told that about our son when the health visitor
noticed that he was aspirating his sibilants. We knew that he had gradually
learned to say all the other consonants so we ignored the advice and by the
time he went to school he could speak perfectly. And with a greater
vocabulary than the health visitor.

> Anyway, our GP is very good and is concerned too like we are. He has
> said if we had any problems, we were to go back and he will then try to
> arrange an appointment via a different area.

Good for him.

> At least that we are aware of the condition and that we will keep a
> close an on her, plus inform nursery what we have seen. I think we will
> keep a diary and make a note of what we are seeing so then it will be
> easier to explain.

That's an excellent idea.

> I wonder if any of you had similar problems with what we have
> experienced this morning?

No but I think I wouldn't have been as patient as you've been.

Be persistent and let us know what happens.

Mary
Leeds UK
Julie - 10 Feb 2005 21:20 GMT
I agree with everything Mary said.  I don't know about emergency doctors in the
UK, but I don't have alot of confidence in the ER doctors here.  My mother had
a blood clot in her arm and the doctor was going on and on about what could be
wrong with her.  (A stoke, heart problems, etc.- but they didn't make sense
with the tests he was running)  Finally my daughter-in-law said "don't you
think this could mean something.  Her hand was cold and turning gray." They did
a doplar test on her arm and before we knew it she was rushed into emergency
surgery to remove the blood clot.  I think my daughter-in-law should have
received partial payment for that ER bill!

If it was me I would get back in touch with your GP and tell him you want a
specialist (and I don't mean a therapist!).  How frustrating - I am frustrated
just hearing about your experience at the ER.  I don't understand why they ask
you to go to the ER.  He probably wouldn't be having a seizure at the time, so
how would they know what is going on.  They need to take a history and do
testing.

It is encouraging to see parents be good advocates for their children.

Keep us informed.
Julie

> > Hi there,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> Mary
> Leeds UK
George Hof - 20 Feb 2005 12:14 GMT
WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO JOIN YOUR GROUP ???

Aikenraven
                     
Mary Fisher - 20 Feb 2005 12:39 GMT
> WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO JOIN YOUR GROUP ???

You're already here ...

Mary

> Aikenraven
G.Ross - 20 Feb 2005 16:47 GMT
> WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO JOIN YOUR GROUP ???
>
> Aikenraven

 Mary was right -- you are already here.  Sometimes the weekend may get
quieter than during the week.   But an advantage of this group is it's
International, so if you have a question or something that's 'bugging you'
about how people with epilepsy (pwe)  are treated, or a comment for others
(since you have so much more experience With it, than some of us),  posts
that are put up stay active for 4-5 days, and as the various Timezones come
online, other comments or replies may be added.

   We have most of the 5 timezones in North America, people from the UK and
Europe, New Zealand and Australia, and sometimes Eastern Europe and South
America.
  It is a very handy way to get a 'free opinion'  or give one, about how a
particular medication might work for a seizure type, things to watch out
for,  labour laws or other concerns that people experience with themselves
or their kids, etc.
  If you still have some posts from Julie or Howdy Dave up on your reader,
at the end of their posts they usually list their Websites that you might
find of interest.   Julie's one is the Idaho Main Website, that has First
Aid Links, and living with Epilepsy issues.  Dave's  used to have
information about a Vagus Nerve Stimulator, links to other sites he's found
over the years, and information he's assembled over //many// years of work
on his site. Both their sites have links to the Ep. Foundation of America if
you haven't looked through it, which has a Medications Glossary and some
other information.
   (I sort most of my Group messages by Subject line Ascending, so they
tend to stay together on my reader.  So I wouldn't normally be on above
Subject Thread, unless I had information that would have helped them with
what an absence seizure might feel like to a child, and how they might
recognize them.  But your message was here, so I wanted to keep my reply, to
it, nearby.     Welcome to our world.    G./  )
George Hof - 20 Feb 2005 12:12 GMT
Were I you, yes I'd see a doctor and explain what you have noticed about
your child. Children often have a hard time expressing their feelings, (
so do many adults ). But with your awareness of the situation, things
will only get better for you and your family.

Aikenraven
                     

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