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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / February 2005

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Electric Taser Guns vs. Seizure triggers

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G.Ross - 19 Jan 2005 18:43 GMT
 I posted an question last year about whether anyone had seen anything
about risk of these Electronic Disabling Weapons that were proposed for
Toronto Police Force.
 Today's (Jan.19) paper has an article that the Ontario coroner and
Government office have both endorsed ordering 539 of those shortly.   I
tried to pick up the www of the article, but each route I take to try cut
and paste it or pick up the www address to post 'here', goes into a Would
you like to Subscribe? (I already do 7 days a week), or their Copyright
protection rules.
   With some tinkering, if you're interested, you can see the article at
http://www.thestar.com  or http://www.thestar.com.ca  if first doesn't work
outside Canada.   Then at the site for articles search, either search on the
Author (today's paper too)  Betsy Powell  (she wrote several articles
today), *Or the article title is "Police armed for Taser struggle" .   The
'struggle'  they're referring to is the human rights groups, and presumably
some health groups, raising questions about whether these are Safe to use on
someone who might have a Heart Condition or other Health issues.   It fires
two remote probes up to 6.4 metres (20 feet) with wires attached to the
taser, using Nitrogen compressed gas.   Once the *2 probes strike the
'target', an electrical charge zaps between the 2 to incapacitate the
'crook'.

   I can't find anything in this article listing the Volts (it just says
"High voltage" -- their capitalization) or Amps that it delivers, but when I
saw this last year, my first thought was what would it do to someone having
a Heart Attack or Seizures, and (2nd) what effect would they have on e.g.
Pacemakers and VNS anti-seizure implants since those also use electrical
signals to operate properly.

  I'm waiting for a (local) phone in to see what a Dr. or ?? will have to
say about above, and let you know if I find anything, positive or not.
Current arguments here and on radio were 'it's safer than a firearm, since
Police would only hit one person at a time ( !! )    /G.
Patsy and Darryl - 31 Jan 2005 15:22 GMT
*snip*
>   I tried to pick up the www of the article, but each route I take to try
> cut and paste it or pick up the www address to post 'here', goes into a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://www.thestar.com  or http://www.thestar.com.ca  if first doesn't
> work outside Canada.
*snip*   /G.

Hi Gordon,

I find if a website has disabled right clicking to prevent copying, then
often it works if you highlight the text and press control and "c" to copy
it.

Cheers
Darryl.
G.Ross - 31 Jan 2005 17:34 GMT
> "G.Ross" <> wrote in message *snip*
>>   I tried to pick up the www of the article, but each route I take to try
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Cheers
> Darryl.

Thanks.  I just tried to go back to the article via the route I had at the
time (when the article was current vs. in archives), and now am waiting to
see if I became a registered user at that time (it was on computer 2, and
might be an assigned password I never bothered with at that time).   Usually
news stories for current day and 2 back are 'up', then move to archives
where it wants a Registered User.

  Since it comes with a "Copyright The Star-- use without written consent
etc. fines and imprisonment, Guantanamo  :-< , etc. "  I probably also
thought at the time that people who wanted to read that might go to the
article at the time, in case it might generate some discussion about local
laws and experiences or opinions (here).
 There was none at the time (here). Then shortly after, my xp1/xp2 link
collapsed until I replaced computer with the defective (stolen) software I
was apparently using.

  Hopefully anyone who wanted to read the article at the time might have
clicked to above and searched on Taser or other search words I listed.
Since they have 600+ on order for Toronto Canada Police, and I saw a "Demo"
on TV how it disables someone by zapping them with 150? volts, my first
thought was "what would that do for someone with a Pacemaker, VNS, or
Propensity to Seizures, Strokes or Heart Fibrillation?"   And many of the
types of symptoms we might exhibit during a seizure could be an invitation
to an untrained Officer (been there, done that, same police force),  to use
the Taser to disable someone in mid-seizure.

  I wondered if they were used in other jurisdictions, since I doubt the
local police are the first who might use something like this as the "Beta
Test".  But if we're an Early user, that might also be used to sell more
without further testing--> "Well Toronto Police bought 600 of these, so they
Must be good...  ".  G./
Maeve - 04 Feb 2005 03:27 GMT
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_T
ype1&c=Article&cid=1106088611329&call_pageid=970599119419

G.Ross - 04 Feb 2005 16:46 GMT
Thank you.  That was it (the article, bottom).
 I never heard (here) from anyone whether these are used elsewhere.
Supposedly they are.  I still had concerns what these would do to someone
who was in mid-seizure being zapped by an electric disabler shock.
   It might just work like a Defibrillator and cancel the eratic electrical
brainwaves that might present with some types of seizures.  Alternatively if
someone were already in a weakened condition during a seizure, I had
wondered if the added Electric Wave might make the seizure 'cycle' worse by
interrupting the natural 'generalization' as the waves pass and the person
would 'normally' come out of it.

  Since that article appeared, they are in the final stages of ordering
about 539 of these.  (Toronto has a metro population of about 2.5 Million
including suburban areas who are proposing following Toronto's 'lead' as a
result.)  If those numbers are correct, that's 1 taser per 5000 general
population, at a total cost of 1.1 Million Dollars ($2000. each).
 (That seemed like a large number ordered, relative to the 3-4x a night
that incidents are reported where something like this might be used, while
4+ hospitals are running MRIs 24 hours a day because of waiting lists in
southern Ontario where some people can wait up to 2-3 months to get scans to
assess their medical condition. )  /G.

> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_T
ype1&c=Article&cid=1106088611329&call_pageid=970599119419
 
 
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