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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / December 2003Illegal Driving
Hi We all know about the issues involving seizures and driving. Some of "know people" who have driven despite having lost their licenses because they (we) have epilepsy. I would like to get a sense of how common that might be. No names are required. Frequency, necessity, descriptions of seizures, whatever, would be interesting. I am not reporting to or for anyone. I am pretty much housebound from this epcrap. I'm just curious. For the record (again), I had my first seizure while I was driving on a bridge in New York City. I wiped out another car (the family was unhurt) and hit the retaining wall. I almost cleared it and fell the 100 plus feet into the East River. No warning. Status Epilepticus. Coma for a week. Etc. I have two cars (Jeep Wranglers) and I will never drive again. I am terrified of what happened. Post to me or the group. Thanks Mark << Some of "know people" who have driven despite having lost their licenses because they (we) have epilepsy. I would like to get a sense of how common that might be. >> i am a lawyer, and former prosecuter, and i have driven w/o a license, and ended up with a broken neck, so I learned my lesson, and no longer drive. I must stress that if you have epilepsy and drive without a license, you can get in trouble. But if you get into an accident, it does not matter if you had a license, just a having a license while driving drunk ain't gonna save you from criminal prosecution or a civil lawsuit. I never even learned to drive as I was diagnosed with absences at age 16. Yes, it's very inconvenient and it means that I must live in areas with public transportation, but I guess you don't miss what you never had. I'd rather accept the inconvenience than take the risk, although I would probably be eligible for a license now since I haven't had a seizure in over a year. You never know when one is going to sneak up on you. > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mark I'm in the same position as turbinado insofar as I did no have a driving licence before my epilepsy started. I was once in the position of having the opportunity to report someone with epilepsy for driving but did not do so. If I had the choice, I would insist that every car driver has to have a driving test every so often because so many without any limits except their own carelessness while in charge of deadly weapons, can hardly be regarded as safe. Using mobile phones at the same time as driving hasn't even been included in the latest leaflet I have seen about being a careful driver. At least taxi drivers have professional experience of other drivers being careless or even stupid sometimes but I still often have to ask them to keep a sensible distance from the vehicle in front. Gaining nothing by being near enough to breath in the exhaust fumes doesn't seem to limit the aggressive nature so many people develop once they're in driving seats. Chirs L. In article <HGjQa.4695$Ma.518662@news1.telusplanet.net>, > I never even learned to drive as I was diagnosed with absences at age 16. > Yes, it's very inconvenient and it means that I must live in areas with > public transportation, but I guess you don't miss what you never had. I'd > rather accept the inconvenience than take the risk, although I would > probably be eligible for a license now since I haven't had a seizure in over > a year. You never know when one is going to sneak up on you. Driving What? A push bike doesn't magically fall over onto it's left or right side if the rider loses control, it keeps going out of control until the front wheel turns far enough to cause the 'bang'. My point ... the rider of a bike can hurt him/herself, & other people just as easily as a driver can, and can just as easily cause an accident. If I was driving & an oncoming push bike swerved into my lane out of control, instinct would be to try to avoid hitting the rider, & that would quite likely cause an accident. Now lets move on to skateboards, roller skates/blades, scooters & anything else of that nature that could cause an accident if it got out of control. Ian ... a TLE who survived a pushbike accident by an act of god! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mark Howdy! Have to agree with Ian on this one! A vehicle is a vehicle. Doesn't matter whether it has 2 wheels or four; with or without a motor. If a person who knows that (s)he loses awareness is operating a moving vehicle I would call it criminal negligence! In some states if a person who knows they have seizures kills somebody by running them down with a vehicle it's homicide, not vehicular homicide!  SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus!" http://www.howdydave.com > Driving What? A push bike doesn't magically fall over onto it's left or > right side if the rider loses control, it keeps going out of control until [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > > > Mark G'day dave, you'd have to agree though that you can do a hell of a lot more damage with a car than you can do with a bike. if you run through a crowd of pedestrians you are unlikely to kill six of them as happened over here last year. and how many bicycles have you seen run through the wall of a house into someone's loungeroom as happened just up the road from where i live just last year? pablo > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In some states if a person who knows they have seizures kills somebody by > running them down with a vehicle it's homicide, not vehicular homicide! ... > > Driving What? A push bike doesn't magically fall over onto it's left or > > right side if the rider loses control, it keeps going out of control until [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > > > > > Mark Howdy pablo! Granted, but if you are riding a bicycle down the road (or even on the sidewalk) and swerve in front of a truck/semi/transport (whatever they call it in your country) the truck (attempting to avoid turning you into a tortilla) will kill a lot more people than you will if you are driving an Opel Cadet! SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > G'day dave, > you'd have to agree though that you can do a hell of a lot more damage with [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > > > > > > > Mark g'day dave, i could have a seizure and wander out in front of the "truck/semi/transport" causing the "truck" to swerve to miss me and he'll still kill lots of people, so does that mean people with epilepsy shouldn't be allowed to walk outside? the main fact of the matter is that a person with epilepsy who has a seizure while driving a car has the potential to cause more damage than one who loses control while riding a bike or skateboard. if you take away the truck from both scenarios you'd have still have to agree the car is more of a hazard on its' own pablo > Howdy pablo! > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > > > > > > > > > Mark If you're going to live your life scared shitless why don't you just live it out in a padded room?! There's a saying, "sh.t Happens". I'm not saying you should go out & live life carelessly. I AM saying that being too careful is just as bad as living carelessly. SignatureLisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t! > g'day dave, > i could have a seizure and wander out in front of the "truck/semi/transport" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of a hazard on its' own > pablo >L><PRE>Subject: Re: Illegal Driving >From: "Lisa Dapper Butts" <lisa@REMOVEmenageriemusic.com> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ></PRE></HTML> i agree what is a person with e supposed to do, not walk or leave the house really.... I could be walking across a busy street at a crosswalk that says walk and what if I have a seizure while its on red but then it turns green and kaboom drive 1 hits driver 2 to avoid me...puleeezee...this whole thing about not riding a bike or rollerskates is very stupid if you are so concerned, why dont you just live in a padded room like the above posted said I work full time and enjoy bikes and blades, walking and running, ooops hope I dont kill anyone while Im going out to get the groceries while walking, my concience is ok with the fact that I do not drive. Oh and incidentally maybe im luckier than some Ive been seizure free for 3 years and over the course of 23 years had only about 15-20 seizures, by the way any person could have a heart attack on a bike or get winded and then kaboom. not just people with epilepsy...I think you should get a job or a hobby and stop thinking of the myriad of ways you could hurt yourself or someone else because you have epilepsy, cause the list is mind-boggleing but I dont have time to think about it cause Im busy living. Howdy Lisa! It's not a matter of concern for personal safety! Don't you think that even a pittance of thought should be given to the issue of putting other people in jeopardy? SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > If you're going to live your life scared shitless why don't you just live it > out in a padded room?! There's a saying, "sh.t Happens". I'm not saying [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > of a hazard on its' own > > pablo People should live life to the fullest. You never know when your time is up. My mother was healthy, 2 months later we buried her. As soon as she was diagnosed with terminal cancer she did not retreat & save her energy for dying. She did what she could & wanted to do daily. Which is exactly what all of us should do. The 'what if' & the 'oh my' syndrome will not let you lead a fulfilling life. I know my limits & triggers, I make sure I stay within my limits & stay away from my triggers. It's called being a mature adult. In being a mature adult my reasoning will also include other people. I have to go now. I have to drive my son to work. Yea, you read correctly. I've been awake for over an hour, I am completely awake & there are no ticks happening. This is how I know it is safe for me to take a shower, drive or venture out of the house. sh.t's & giggles, SignatureLisa Dapper Butts http://www.geocities.com/lisa_gail aol-LizzieAnon yahoo-lisa_gail icq - 8684104 I suffer from C.R.S........can't remember sh.t! > Howdy Lisa! > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > pablo Howdy Lisa! Absolutely! Live each day as if it were your last because, some day, you will be right! SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > People should live life to the fullest. You never know when your time is > up. > sh.t's & giggles, I am new to the group and this topic is a very sore spot for me. You see I was working at a good position in Florida and I finally got health benefits so I switched from a DO to a Neurologist. The first thing she did was to report me to the DMV for having seizures. I had not been having any I just went to her in case anything ever happened I figured she would be more up on the current events. She caused me to lose my job, she ruined my credit, and she almost caused me to lose my family. That is what I got for wanting to make a living. Driving with epilepsy is no different than driving with Diabetes, or driving with a severe heart condition, much less driving while on alcohol or drugs. It pisses me off evertime I go to the DMV and they ask me if I have a seizure disorder. I ask them why they don't ask about heart patients or about drug abuse and the response I got from one of them was "it would take us forever if we ask those types of questions!" What balls this lady had. She wanted to get the person that may have a seizure occasionally off the road but she didn't give a rats a.s about a heroin addict that is f.cked up all the time. Someone in an earlier post said it is homicide if you have a seizure and kill someone. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. That is no different than saying if you are target shooting at a range and a bullet happens to hit a rock and ricochets and kills someone it is first degree murder. Get your heads out of your a.s and start living. Like Lisa said we are no different than anyone else other than we have epilepsy. By the way to those of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is something I have had since I was 10 years old and I am now 45. I don't throw or have "fits" if anything I may have a seizure. Having "fits" you are in the stone age and I take it personally. After two year "fit" free I got my license back and was given a safe driver status. I even got the head of the Epilepsy Foundation in FL fired. In a case where a person has several seizures per day then I do not think they should drive, but I don't think they should be outcast either. I have went through all of the typical crap from being embarrassed by taking the medicine to rebelling against it. Nothing helps I have to take it and I have learned to live with it. But don't tell me I am not to be on the roads driving. Let me ask you a question How many people were killed in the last year by others having seizures? How many accidents period were there because of people having seizures? How many people were killed in the last year due to drunk drivers? How many accidents were caused by drunk drivers? It is the 4th of July in America and you are driving home late at night, you see a car going over the center lines repeatedly how many times do you say to yourself "I bet he is having a seizure?" Or is is more like "Stay away from him he is drunk?" That's what I thought. I take it very very personal when someone tells me I can't do something because I have Epilepsy. I respond to them that they are very correct I have it, it does not have me!" Sorry to be so negative but this is a true life story and everything I typed I have ask the DMV in FL, I have ask the State Senators in FL. I have even told it to the man in charge of the medical reviews for the DMV and he told me to go to the DMV and pick up my license. It was also published in the Daytona Beach News Journal several years ago. Lisa I agree with you in the fullest. Go ahead and live your life because I am living mine daily. Thanks for being someone that was not scared tobeam into this subject. I just found the NG today and I see many interesting posts I am going to have to read. I wish you all the very best. Like I learned when I switched from the D.O. to the Neurologist If it isn't broke don"t fix it. Tim Wise > People should live life to the fullest. You never know when your time is > up. My mother was healthy, 2 months later we buried her. As soon as she [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > pablo > By the way to those > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > license back and was given a safe driver status. I even got the head of the > Epilepsy Foundation in FL fired. Actually, I've been curious about this terminology. One of the leading epilepsy researchers in Toronto told me that in Europe seizures are still commonly referred to as "fits". I've noticed that in the scientific literature from Europe, seizures are still often referred to as fits. In North America this seems to have a more negative connotation than seizure, but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? We used to have several people in the UK and Europe posting. I don't know if they're still around. I expect from the earlier post (part below) they'd hesitate to wade into an opening like that. It's 'Just a word'... If you give it a Negative meaning, it will be a negative to you. We call those large things on the Highways Trucks, they call them a Lorrie. Just a word. It doesn't change the nature of the beast. 'Lang may your Lum Reek...' G. > > By the way to those > > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than > seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? > It's 'Just a word'... If you give it a Negative meaning, it will be a > negative to you. We call those large things on the Highways Trucks, they > call them a Lorrie. Lorry. It goes down the road while we stand on the pavement and watch it pass ... ("You say tomayto, I say tamarto, let's call the whole thing off" etc ;-)) SignaturePaul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/ > > By the way to those > > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than > seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? "Fit" is commonly used in the UK as shorthand for a seizure, generally to mean a tonic-clonic or variations thereof rather than partials. "Grand mal" and "petit mal" as also still very commonly used as names for tonic-clonic type and any sort of partial respectively. There's no pejorative meaning to "fit" here. I'll certainly quite happily refer to myself as having had epileptic fits as a more easily understandable label than "tonic seizure" when talking to someone whose life hasn't been personally touched by epilepsy. SignaturePaul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/ > "Fit" is commonly used in the UK as shorthand for a seizure, generally to > mean a tonic-clonic or variations thereof rather than partials. "Grand mal" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > when talking to someone whose life hasn't been personally touched by > epilepsy. I'll second that. Even my GP often says 'fit'. But when I'm on this ng I say 'seizure' because I had a feeling that the majority of posters might not understand 'fit'. It's an interesting word, 'fit', I wonder why it was ever used? By the way, I've never said 'tomarto' in all my life. It's 'tomato'. A long 'a' of course but no 'r', even the Scots don't put one in! Mary >I'll second that. Even my GP often says 'fit'. > >But when I'm on this ng I say 'seizure' because I had a feeling that the >majority of posters might not understand 'fit'. I don't care whether I'm called a person with epilepsy, an epileptic or whether I have fits of seizures. One thing I haven't liked was when I was told I shouldn't wander off because I "might be lying twitching behind a wall having one of my funny turns." And as I'm in a bad mood, I'll finish in bad taste: Maybe as an epileptic I can't live every boy's dream of being a fighter pilot, but surely I can be a suicide bomber (they must be running out of volunteers soon?). SignatureMalcolm , UK > I don't care whether I'm called a person with epilepsy, an epileptic or > whether I have fits of seizures. Didn't we go through this recently? Does epilepsy affect memory? :-) > > One thing I haven't liked was when I was told I shouldn't wander off > because I "might be lying twitching behind a wall having one of my funny > turns." Oh - you choose to lie behind a wall to have a fit? Aren't people silly! > And as I'm in a bad mood, I'm sorry to hear that. Honestly. > I'll finish in bad taste: Maybe as an > epileptic I can't live every boy's dream of being a fighter pilot, but > surely I can be a suicide bomber (they must be running out of volunteers > soon?). It wasn't all that tasteless! In fact it wasn't at all tasteless to my perception. Any more like that? Mary > Malcolm , UK That would make better sense why it is still referred to as that. I must apologize then because of my ignorance. My skin just crawls when I hear people say things like episode, fit, But like I say if it is commonplace in some countries then I cannot expect them to change just for me. > > By the way to those > > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than > seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? One of the reasons the British don't use 'seizure' is because its origin is from the idea of having been seized be the devil ! > > By the way to those > > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the > > Epilepsy Foundation in FL fired. > Actually, I've been curious about this terminology. One of the leading > epilepsy researchers in Toronto told me that in Europe seizures are still [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than > seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? > One of the reasons the British don't use 'seizure' is because its origin > is from the idea of having been seized be the devil ! Don't be daft. We do use seizure as well as fit. Mary > > > By the way to those > > > of you that refer to this as having "fits" you can kiss my a.s. This is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > but I don't think the Europeans are using fit in any way different than > > seizure. What do others think? Any Europeans here that can comment? I didn't say I regarded seizure as 'by the devil' Neither of us was around when such concerns existed so we cannot prove whether or not it was the origin. I should have said 'tend not to use' not 'don't' and emphasised habits being continued without the origin being known. Chris L > > One of the reasons the British don't use 'seizure' is because its origin > > is from the idea of having been seized be the devil ! > Don't be daft. > We do use seizure as well as fit. > Mary Howdy PC! There is a simple difference here. Driving with epilepsy is AGAINST THE LAW! It doesn't matter whether we think it's right or not. Of you don't like it, you can write to your local congressman from prison! SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > I am new to the group and this topic is a very sore spot for me. You see I > was working at a good position in Florida and I finally got health benefits [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > pablo Howdy! Geez... I thought that I'd get a slew of responses from that one! What happened? SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > Howdy PC! > [quoted text clipped - 157 lines] > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > pablo Dave, Ok, Howdy. Here you go. Just for the record, last time I looked it up, driving in FL is left to the discretion of the doctor. (I think it says 6 months seizure-free, or at the discretion of the Dr.) Doctors are not "required" to report seizures to the DMV in FL. PC said he went 2 years seizure-free, didn't he? I have a seizure disorder, or epilepsy, whichever is politically correct this week. I take dilantin so I don't have seizures. I haven't had a seizure in 11 years. My neuro told me I can drive. In your eyes, since I have had seizures in the past, and a diagnosis of epilepsy in my file am I driving illegally? Lainie "Dave ©¿©¬" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote in message news:<OcWzb.1405$1v7.721@news01.roc.ny>... > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it, > > you can write to your local congressman from prison! Howdy Lainie! Nope! Sounds like your legal to me! Your doctor said it is ok and (I would imagine) that 11 years seizure free meets the restrictions of the FL law! My bone of contention (nothing to do with the law) is with people who REPEATEDLY just squeek in under the legal restrictions and then get a licence knowing full well that they are going to have more seizures. You know... those who put their convenience above their (and their families and the public's) safety. The "well... I'll just drive until I'm not allowed to do so anymore" attitude. In other situations it would probably be called "wreckless endangerment." SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > Dave, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > "Dave ????" <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote in message news:<OcWzb.1405$1v7.721@news01.roc.ny>... > > Howdy! > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > it, > > > you can write to your local congressman from prison! > Howdy! > > Geez... I thought that I'd get a slew of responses from that one! > > What happened? We don't have congressmen in UK and few know who their MPs are and even if they did it wouldn't make any difference. They don't actually represent their constituents, that would be far too difficult! Mary > > Howdy PC! > > [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] > > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > > pablo Howdy Mary! Does the parlament have anything to do with making/amending the traffic code? SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > > Howdy! > > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > > > > > > > In a case where a person has several seizures per day then I do not > > think > > > > they should drive, but I don't think they should be outcast either. I [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] > > > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > > > pablo > Howdy Mary! > > Does the parlament have anything to do with making/amending the traffic > code? Possibly, in theory, for instance the government (which isn't the same as Parliament) has just made it illegal to drive while using a mobile phone. You know, Brits find the workings of the American political system unfathomable. But I don't think they know much about their own, it's just as complex. God isn't the only entitity which moves in mysterious ways ... Mary > > > Howdy! > > > [quoted text clipped - 262 lines] > > > > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > > > > pablo Howdy Mary! They outlawed driving and holding a cell phone over hear about a year ago. There were a lot of tickets for about 2 or 3 months. Now nothing happens and the law is, for all intents and purposes, on the books but not being enforced. SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > > Howdy Mary! > > [quoted text clipped - 307 lines] > > > > > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > > > > > pablo > Howdy Mary! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the law is, for all intents and purposes, on the books but not being > enforced. I guess that here there'll be a rise in sales of dark windows in cars ... Mary > > > Howdy Mary! > > > [quoted text clipped - 302 lines] > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > careful is just as bad as living carelessly. news:thxab.111252$bo1.25664@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > > > > > > > > > > > g'day dave, > > > > > > > > > > > i could have a seizure and wander out in front of the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > > > > > > > pablo > Does the [UK] parlament have anything to do with making/amending the > traffic code? In relation to epilepsy? No, surprisingly. Very little. At some point long, long ago they presumably passed a law which said "thou shalt not drive if medically unfit" but they left it to the doctors to decide the definition of that. It has changed over time. For example when I had a single tonic-clonic in 1992 (or thereabouts) I lost my licence for one year. If I'd have had any treatment at all, eg being put on medication, or if I'd had any more investigation beyond an EEG (an MRI for example) it would have been two years. This time round however I simply have to have a year without any seizures, even though I've had several MRIs and I'm on AEDs and they tweak the dose up if I have a seizure. So presumably in the decade between the first seizure and my stroke the doctors who decide these things relaxed the rules a little. ISTR finding somewhere on the web papers relating to a meeting of UK doctors discussing this sort of thing but I can't lay my hands on it now. SignaturePaul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/ "> > What happened? > We don't have congressmen in UK and few know who their MPs are and even if > they did it wouldn't make any difference. They don't actually represent > their constituents, that would be far too difficult! > > Mary few people take an interest in their local politicians, that's why they can get away with so much. mostly the only time you see them is when they're looking for re-election or you see them on the news as the lead story in a major scandal! pablo > few people take an interest in their local politicians, that's why they can > get away with so much. mostly the only time you see them is when they're > looking for re-election or you see them on the news as the lead story in a > major scandal! > pablo Whether or not we take an interest we can't get away from Our Glorious Leader :-( And when he recently visited here we couldn't escape the story of yours either :-(( Mary all polliticians are low lifes you only hear about them come election time when they like to dangle carrots in front of a voting public I am in Australia we have compulsory voting and I am all for that. still doesn't stop the honest pollies turning bad. as for the US system I don't understand it fully. but IMHO the sooner they make it complusory to vote the more realisitic their outcomes will be that is IMHO though > few people take an interest in their local politicians, that's why they can > get away with so much. mostly the only time you see them is when they're > looking for re-election or you see them on the news as the lead story in a > major scandal! > pablo I wonder if Dave or anyone else can explain why this Illegal Driving subject is so fragmented all over the board. Do you have your messages, on this group, set to sort by Message Thread? That would keep messages with same title together. When someone changes the subject title (even 1-2 characters) that starts a New Thread, with that sorting method. The thread you describe below has already expired on my 'message board'. I don't know if that has to do with Internet Provider, Operating system etc. But usually messages that go back ~3 days like mine, seem to be far enough to keep the context of the conversation. G. > I wonder if Dave or anyone else can explain why this Illegal Driving subject is > so fragmented all over the board. Thanks for the suggestion. Every other thread outside of "Illegal Driving" is all in one place. I thought is must be to do with this particular subject. I quite understand you angry frustration. I feel the same if anyone is referred to as 'an epileptic' but using the term 'fits' rather than 'seizures' is a matter of personal taste not absolute definition. Fits was used in Britain for far longer than the term seizures has been. It is also used to refer to other patches both negative such as anger but also positive such as laughter. I agree that a lot of people are irreponsible drivers but that does not excuse us risking not being in continuous control of lethal weapons. I was lucky not having passed a driving test before my epilepsy started at the age of24, because using public transport is cheaper than buying and running cars, especially if there are lower fares for people with disabilities. I am able to travel great distances for nothing on buses that start near where I live. Eventually resources will run out for private cars - metal can be re-used but petrol cannot and the effect of polluted air cannot be undone either. I shall therefore continue to campaign for public transport to be improved for my own benefit now and for everyone in the future. Chris L. therefore we sh <VyVwb.2979$E9.696@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, > I am new to the group and this topic is a very sore spot for me. You see I > was working at a good position in Florida and I finally got health benefits [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > at a range and a bullet happens to hit a rock and ricochets and kills > someone it is first degree murder. > Get your heads out of your a.s and start living. Like Lisa said we are no > different than anyone else other than we have epilepsy. By the way to those [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > license back and was given a safe driver status. I even got the head of the > Epilepsy Foundation in FL fired. > In a case where a person has several seizures per day then I do not think > they should drive, but I don't think they should be outcast either. I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "I bet he is having a seizure?" Or is is more like "Stay away from him he is > drunk?" That's what I thought. > I take it very very personal when someone tells me I can't do something > because I have Epilepsy. I respond to them that they are very correct I have > it, it does not have me!" > Sorry to be so negative but this is a true life story and everything I typed > I have ask the DMV in FL, I have ask the State Senators in FL. I have even > told it to the man in charge of the medical reviews for the DMV and he told > me to go to the DMV and pick up my license. It was also published in the > Daytona Beach News Journal several years ago. > Lisa I agree with you in the fullest. Go ahead and live your life because I > am living mine daily. Thanks for being someone that was not scared tobeam > into this subject. I just found the NG today and I see many interesting > posts I am going to have to read. > I wish you all the very best. Like I learned when I switched from the D.O. > to the Neurologist If it isn't broke don"t fix it. > Tim Wise > > People should live life to the fullest. You never know when your time is > > up. My mother was healthy, 2 months later we buried her. As soon as she [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > > > of a hazard on its' own > > > > > pablo > If you're going to live your life scared shitless why don't you just live it > out in a padded room?! There's a saying, "sh.t Happens". I'm not saying > you should go out & live life carelessly. I AM saying that being too > careful is just as bad as living carelessly. Cool it, Lisa. Mary Huh? > > If you're going to live your life scared shitless why don't you just live > it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mary I totally agree with Lisa on this one. I am so sick and tired of people I talk to thinking it is my primary responsibility in life to protect them and the rest of the world from myself. I've got better things to do, and so do they apparently by the number of people who use cell phones in cars. >>>If you're going to live your life scared shitless why don't you just > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >>>out in a padded room?! There's a saying, "sh.t Happens". Here's an article which might be of interest to some here. I know it's a bit off topic though. I was curious about the laws with respect to epilepsy and driving in Canada. I've heard several different things about driving restrictions and epilepsy. Can anyone tell me what restrictions there are in Canada? http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2003/10/28/Consumers/cardiac_drivers031028 > I totally agree with Lisa on this one. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> > >>>out in a padded room?! There's a saying, "sh.t Happens". >Here's an article which might be of interest to some here. I know it's a >bit off topic though. I was curious about the laws with respect to epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2003/10/28/Consumers/cardiac_drivers031028 Big grin! But I didn't see the word 'epilepsy' mentioned once in the article. Guess I'd better find a country which has no licence restrictions for epileptics and go and claim medical asylum from the UK which is so two faced in its disability discrimination laws. SignatureMalcolm > Guess I'd better find a country which has no licence restrictions for > epileptics and go and claim medical asylum from the UK which is so two > faced in its disability discrimination laws. I don't understand what you mean by that last because you're not allowed to drive in UK if you've suffered from fits in a prescribed time. That applies to all people, not just natives. Mary >I don't understand what you mean by that last because you're not allowed to >drive in UK if you've suffered from fits in a prescribed time. > >That applies to all people, not just natives. > >Mary In the education sector we are being bombarded by government directives about providing for every sort of disability (both physical and cognitive) to give all pupils the same opportunities. Such an approach is hardly being used with respect to driving laws where taking away someone's licence is being used as a punishment in the courts. I bristle every time I hear on the telly of someone being disqualified for a year for drunk driving or killing a child on the road. Different countries have different laws, and different seizure free requirements. Some don't even have any restrictions. Obviously the efficacy of AEDs and reliability of remission varies according to where you are on the globe. It must be something to do with geo-magnetic radiation. I must find one of these hot-spots and live there to make sure I am safe from epilepsy. Maybe I'll set up a 'Get Cured Here' clinic. SignatureMalcolm I'm sorry I hadn't seen this post, before I wasted 20 minutes composing my earlier reply. Go find a book to read. Six years I've been online, and I still didn't hear the Float hit the Water.. Dang / > >I don't understand what you mean by that last because you're not allowed to > >drive in UK if you've suffered from fits in a prescribed time. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is hardly being used with respect to driving laws where taking away > someone's licence is being used as a punishment in the courts. > I bristle every time I hear on the telly of someone being disqualified ***************************************************** > for a year for drunk driving or killing a child on the road. *************************************************** > Different countries have different laws, and different seizure free > requirements. Some don't even have any restrictions. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Malcolm Howdy Malcom! Sign me up for your clinic! My first question is: Should the fact that I have had some social restrictions placed on me effect the responsibility that I should take for my own actions? IMHO the two are totally unrelated! I don't give a smeg what other people do or how society treats other people. I am responsible for the consequences of my own actions. SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > Different countries have different laws, and different >seizure free requirements. Some don't even have any >restrictions. <snip> >I must find one of these hot-spots and live > there to make sure I am safe from epilepsy. Maybe I'll set > up a 'Get Cured Here' clinic. > >Here's an article which might be of interest to some here. I know it's a > >bit off topic though. I was curious about the laws with respect to epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Big grin! But I didn't see the word 'epilepsy' mentioned once in the article. > Guess I'd better find a country which has no licence restrictions for > epileptics and go and claim medical asylum from the UK which is so two > faced in its disability discrimination laws. > -- > Malcolm Then why not point him at the Google Link? http://www.google.com (**SOMEONE Correct me if that's wrong), search on Canada & Epilepsy & Driving . The article had to do with Heart Conditions, not epilepsy. Each of the 10+ provinces here (Canada) have their own Motor Vehicle Laws, with their own thresholds for what constitutes *Impaired Driving. So each likely has different thresholds for health conditions that could contribute to impairment, although I'd expect each is *close to same settings -- likely 6-12 months seizure-free before you get a 'clean driver licence' without restrictions. (Do all areas of UK have the *same thresholds and laws for this type of health condition or impairment?) When I was first diagnosed (1993), in Ontario, my Neuro told me that if I drove, had an accident and caused injury or damage, and it was found that I had **Uncontrolled Epilepsy, then any Motor Vehicle **Liability Insurance I had bought, would be void. So settlement of $100,000, $300,000.? to replace Lifetime income of a 'Breadwinner' who was killed due to my negligence, could be directed by a Judge to be my expense, or my Estate's. Not much of a Memory to leave. Some areas too have ability to take a Doctor's Licence for Not reporting someone who might be Non-compliant with local laws. What level would you expect, or set as a workable period, for someone to be Seizure Free before they're allowed to drive without restrictions? Is 30 days enough time to show we're 'controlled'? or would 60-120 day range be better if our medications were being adjusted? How about 3 months with someone else in the car (assuming they'd have ANY Hope of controlling a car, while the Driver is going into a Complex Partial at Highway speeds), and 6 months before we could drive alone? Or one year seizure free? (I think that's what it is in Ontario). Particular periods by Geographic Area are probably somewhere inside http://efa.org for the U.S.A. and there might be a link there to Canada sites, or try a Google for epilepsytoronto to find my Local Chapter, that likely has the Provincial, and possibly National waiting periods, to be seizure free, somewhere on their website. I don't know if the U.S. has separate waiting periods for each of the 50 States, like Canada does for our Provinces, but I wouldn't be surprised if those varied by each jurisdiction. G./ > Or one year seizure free? (I think that's what it is in Ontario). > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > States, like Canada does for our Provinces, but I wouldn't be surprised if > those varied by each jurisdiction. G./ Here in Newfoundland and Labrador the wait time is currently 12 months. However that is expected to drop to 6 within the next couple of months. For a fairly decent listing of Epilepsy Orgs across canada, you might want to check www.epilepsymatters.com Pam Epilepsy Newfoundland and Labrador epilepsy@nf.aibn.com Visit our updated and expanded website at http://www.nfld.net/epilepsy/ > I totally agree with Lisa on this one. > I am so sick and tired of people I talk to thinking it is my primary > responsibility in life to protect them and the rest of the world from > myself. I've got better things to do, and so do they apparently by the > number of people who use cell phones in cars. I don't. Just because other people break laws* and risk injuring themselves and other people doesn't mean that you shouldn't act more responsibly. These days, people who drive and pay attention to laws most of the time seem to be getting rarer and rarer. * using mobile phones in hand is only just becoming illegal in the UK, but I'd say that even reacting to one mounted on your dashboard could often be regarded as 'driving without due care and attention', which is illegal. Chris L. Howdy Chris! In my neck of the woods they call that justification. Those people don't take any resposibility so why should I? Same as "My brother didn't brush his teeth this morning so why should I have to?" BUT... If you don't want to take responsibility for your actions, nobody is going to change your mind about it! BTW: Have you ever attempted to get some action out of the government? What is your reaction when somebody says: "It's not my responsibility" or "That's not my department" or "Call me tomorrow"? SignatureDave ???? "Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus" http://www.howdydave.com > > I totally agree with Lisa on this one. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Chris L. > > I totally agree with Lisa on this one. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Chris L. g'day chris, i agree with you about people holding a mobile phone while driving, but wouldn't using a hands free mobile phone be liking carrying on a conversation with someone else in the car with you. i can't see the law makers banning drivers talking to passengers. pablo > g'day chris, > i agree with you about people holding a mobile phone while driving, but > wouldn't using a hands free mobile phone be liking carrying on a > conversation with someone else in the car with you. i can't see the law > makers banning drivers talking to passengers. > pablo Some of us might welcome that in some cases ... Mary g'day mary, having problems with a backseat driver are we, by chance? pablo > > g'day chris, > > i agree with you about people holding a mobile phone while driving, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mary > g'day mary, > having problems with a backseat driver are we, by chance? LOL No! But you must admit that some next-to-driver passengers can be a pain. We rarely have passengers in the back seat - except the hens. Mary > pablo > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Mary > > g'day mary, > > having problems with a backseat driver are we, by chance? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mary G'day mary i hope you have them house trained, or should i say car trained. pablo > > > g'day mary, > > > having problems with a backseat driver are we, by chance? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > G'day mary > i hope you have them house trained, or should i say car trained. Sadly, we haven't managed that. Their travelling coop sits on a plywood board covered with hessian - they don't come out often but if they do one of them likes to sit on my head restraint. It's like travelling with children, a constant whine of "are we nearly there yet ... " which can be a pain! Mary > pablo >g'day chris, >i agree with you about people holding a mobile phone while driving, but >wouldn't using a hands free mobile phone be liking carrying on a >conversation with someone else in the car with you. i can't see the law >makers banning drivers talking to passengers. >pablo But if you have to use one hand to fondle them at the same time, doesn't it impair your driving? SignatureMalcolm > >g'day chris, > >i agree with you about people holding a mobile phone while driving, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But if you have to use one hand to fondle them at the same time, doesn't > it impair your driving? You can talk and fondle at the same time? Good Heavens! A multi-tasking man ... Mary > In some states if a person who knows they have seizures kills somebody by > running them down with a vehicle it's homicide, not vehicular homicide! This is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard of. So if that is true then a person that has a known heart condition drives and has a heart attack are they guilty of Homicide? If a person has Diabetes and they go into a coma due to the insulin they wreck and Kill someone is it then Homicide? I simply do not believe any of these. > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > > > > > Mark >> In some states if a person who knows they have seizures kills somebody by >> running them down with a vehicle it's homicide, not vehicular homicide! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >into a coma due to the insulin they wreck and Kill someone is it then >Homicide? I simply do not believe any of these. My CP szs left me active but unaware and out of rational and moral control for long periods of time, during which I would do stupid things. I often used to worry about what would happen if I killed someone during a seizure. I would be tried for murder. If I plead 'Guilty' I go to jail. If I plead 'Not Guilty due to Epilepsy', I would be put in a 'secure hospital' for life. Don't you just love the UK legal system? SignatureMalcolm > Don't you just love the UK legal system? No. And I've been summoned for jury service again in January. Spouse is spitting nails, he says it's not fair, he'd love to do it because he never has and I have. But it's not all fun, there's a lot of sitting around doing nothing, you might not be chosen for a case yet you have to be available for a week. And some of your fellow jurors make you realise that the faults in the system are on all levels. But, as has been said before, I can't think of a better system. Mary |
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