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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / January 2005

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Some good news to start the New Year with...

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Satch - 05 Jan 2005 16:00 GMT
Hello,

Today I had an appointment with my neurologist at the hospital. Despite the
promise my previous neurologist made to me six months ago that from that
date she would be my doctor and I would not have to tell the same story
again, I had an appointment with another neurologist. That should of course
not be a problem; however that person summarized my whole history again as
if I was an idiot and I did not know my own history (welcome to neurology
land in an academic hospital).

He finally started with something real interesting that I would be able to
drive from legal point of view in February (good news). Though I told him I
sometimes feel dizzy like someone turns off a button in my head which lasts
for only a couple of seconds, he assured me that this has nothing to do with
a seizure as I would get a tonic clonic seizure when a seizure kicks in.
When I do not get that, then I should ignore it he said. He also assured me
with a politically correct smile on his face that yes, it is a little bit
strange that I am reporting this after almost one year of not having this
issue.

Then he was a little bit reluctant to write a prescription as my General
Practioner could do this as well which made me to remember him that in The
Netherlands, we now have a new healthcare system which means that if you do
not use healthcare, you get money back from the government at the end of the
year. If you do use healthcare service, then the amolunt of money for the
healthcare service you are using is being withdrawn from the money you
should get back at the end of the year with the exception that this amount
cannot be negative (when you use more money that you could get back at the
end of the year, one does not have to pay extra or something). Of course,
monthly premiums went sky high because of this new system. Well, finally he
wrote down a 3 months prescription (welcome to neurology department) while
my next appointment is next year.

To summarize my appointment: that guy is a complete bureaucratic idiot who
would not survive one minute in the commerercial business industry.
Furthermore, he told me that I was OK so only good news today.

Just wanted to share that there are fools out there in acadamic neurology
hospital land... :-)

Bye,

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Mary Fisher - 05 Jan 2005 16:16 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> if I was an idiot and I did not know my own history (welcome to neurology
> land in an academic hospital).

Hmm. Yes ... :-(

> He finally started with something real interesting that I would be able to
> drive from legal point of view in February (good news).

Smashing!

> Though I told him I
> sometimes feel dizzy like someone turns off a button in my head which
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> strange that I am reporting this after almost one year of not having this
> issue.

Poor chap, he obviously didn't want you to think that he might think you're
a loony ... :-)

> Then he was a little bit reluctant to write a prescription as my General
> Practioner could do this as well which made me to remember him that in The
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> cannot be negative (when you use more money that you could get back at the
> end of the year, one does not have to pay extra or something).

er ... ???

> Of course,
> monthly premiums went sky high because of this new system. Well, finally
> he
> wrote down a 3 months prescription (welcome to neurology department) while
> my next appointment is next year.

Can't you go back after three months just for a new script?

> To summarize my appointment: that guy is a complete bureaucratic idiot who
> would not survive one minute in the commerercial business industry.
> Furthermore, he told me that I was OK so only good news today.

But surely you don't believe a complete bureaucratic idiot? <VBG>

> Just wanted to share that there are fools out there in acadamic neurology
> hospital land... :-)

Give the chap time, he might get better.

I'm pleased for you, thanks for sharing this with us.

Mary

> Bye,
Satch - 05 Jan 2005 16:36 GMT
Hi Mary,

> > Then he was a little bit reluctant to write a prescription as my General
> > Practioner could do this as well which made me to remember him that in
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> er ... ???

Don't ask. New Government with different political colours.

> Poor chap, he obviously didn't want you to think that he might think
> you're
> a loony ... :-)

Forgot to tell that I had the same politically correct smile on my
face...hehehe. I thought the exact same thing.

> Can't you go back after three months just for a new script?

Of course! I think it is quite fair because if you use a specific service,
then you pay for it. As I can afford to pay for it, I do not care of paying.
But this is just bureaucratic nonsens to have me call the GP, ask him/her
for a prescription and then pay for the service the GP provides. What
happens is that the GP then fills in the form and sends it to me. I fill
down the insurance form and send it to my insurance company. The insurance
company then administers how much the invoice for that service was so that
it can be calculated at the end of the year. At that time, I still do not
have my medicines. I only have my script.

If this "chap" would have given me the script for a whole year, then the GP,
the insurance company and myself do not have to start exchanging notes with
each other by postal service.

> Give the chap time, he might get better.
>
> I'm pleased for you, thanks for sharing this with us.

Yes, I gave my previous neurologist some time (exactly six months to know
better / learn more about the epilepy game and how to deal with patients),
but I think I have to start all over again with this new chap. As he needs
more time, I will see him next year. Poor me I guess? :-)

Anyway, only good news today for me Mary.

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Mary Fisher - 05 Jan 2005 21:12 GMT
>> > The
>> > Netherlands, we now have a new healthcare system which means that if
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Don't ask. New Government with different political colours.

I hope our lot don't get to hear about that convoluted system.

>> Poor chap, he obviously didn't want you to think that he might think
>> you're
>> a loony ... :-)
>
> Forgot to tell that I had the same politically correct smile on my
> face...hehehe. I thought the exact same thing.

HAHA!

Reminds me of after I'd had my brain surgery and my head was shaven and
stapled. I hadn't slept for nights, the doctor suggested going for a walk
round the streets in the fresh night air to tire myself. A daughter
accompanied me to the hospital 'official' door, where the security man said
I couldn't go out. ?Why? Because they were going to lock the door at
midnight and I wouldn't be able to get back in. I said that was no problem,
I'd go to the A&E (casualty) entrance. I said I was doing it because of
medical instructions. He waffled and eventually said it wasn't allowed for
some patients to leave the hospital unless they'd discharged themselves.

Patiently, I tried to explain. I said that I wasn't mad ...

Wrong tactic. He backed off and said he wouldn't be held responsible.

We walked the streets for an hour or so and went back - through the banned
door. The security man looked surprised but didn't challenge me - I was in
my dressing gown after all. He was a  new one, the other chap had finished
his shift. The door hadn't been locked (it couldn't be because of fire regs
and I knew that).

On reflection I suppose he was trying to protect me - or the public. He
didn't know who I was, but he could have checked by ringing the ward when I
suggested it. He shouldn't have made a judgement on his limited experience -
just like your neurologist.

>> Can't you go back after three months just for a new script?
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> it can be calculated at the end of the year. At that time, I still do not
> have my medicines. I only have my script.

Mad. But I really meant that the ideal would have been for you to have a
year's worth of possibly post dated scripts. My doctor has done that for
me - because I might need an antibiotic in an emergency and not be able to
get to a GP.

> If this "chap" would have given me the script for a whole year, then the
> GP,
> the insurance company and myself do not have to start exchanging notes
> with
> each other by postal service.

I despair of bureaucracy.

>> Give the chap time, he might get better.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> but I think I have to start all over again with this new chap. As he needs
> more time, I will see him next year. Poor me I guess? :-)

Well, think of it in this way: You're providing a valuable experience for
all these folk.

> Anyway, only good news today for me Mary.

Good.

Happy driving!

Mary
Dave ???? - 06 Jan 2005 00:57 GMT
> >> > The
> >> > Netherlands, we now have a new healthcare system which means that if
[quoted text clipped - 99 lines]
>
> Mary

Howdy Mary!

So... the doctor prescribed a little street walking to make you feel better,
eh?  :p

Signature

Dave ????

http://www.howdydave.com

Mary Fisher - 06 Jan 2005 10:19 GMT
> Howdy Mary!
>
> So... the doctor prescribed a little street walking to make you feel
> better,
> eh?  :p

A fat old woman with a shaven, stapled head?

I stayed poor!

Didn't even sleep either :-(

Mary
Satch - 06 Jan 2005 05:55 GMT
> HAHA!
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> -
> just like your neurologist.

Great story. Once in a lifetime, everyone will have this kind of story to
tell. Really, there are idiots out there that refuse to start thinking.
Maybe they should hook up their heads to an EEG device and then they find
something even Scully and Mulder can't explain (X-files).

> Mad. But I really meant that the ideal would have been for you to have a
> year's worth of possibly post dated scripts. My doctor has done that for
> me - because I might need an antibiotic in an emergency and not be able to
>
> get to a GP.

Precisely: Mad.

> Well, think of it in this way: You're providing a valuable experience for
> all these folk.

I hope I did not ruin his day...hehehe.

> Happy driving!

Not decided yet but thanks anyway.

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Dave ???? - 06 Jan 2005 00:54 GMT
Howdy Marco!

I would seriously consider getting a different doctor.

I don't know what the driving laws are there in the Netherlands, but where I
live ANY type of siezure disqualifies a person from driving.

It almost sounds as if that doctor is saying that "It is not a seizure
unless it is tonic clonic."

That is just plain wrong!

All of my neurologists would rather take care of my prescription drugs for
epilepsy themselves.

Signature

Dave ????

http://www.howdydave.com

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Bye,
Satch - 06 Jan 2005 05:52 GMT
> I would seriously consider getting a different doctor.

I am getting new doctors every time I am having an appointment in the
hospital!

> It almost sounds as if that doctor is saying that "It is not a seizure
> unless it is tonic clonic."

My doctor states that "with my type of epilepy (primary generalized), I
cannot really have any other type of seizure then a tonic clonic one.
Absence type of epilepsy which I had before, is unlikely to return as this a
child epilepsy (easy one because that is something you can read on every
webpage / book). Of course, everything is possible, but that strange feeling
in your head is probably caused by side effects of the medicines you are
taking though it is strange that your are still having this one year later"
(I told him this started recently).

I stated to him that there are many types of epilepsy, which means different
type of seizures and a combination of seizures is possible but this
neurologist (which was in fact a person that is still learning to become one
as we are talking about an academic hospital where all these kind of
nextdoorneurologists think they are the King and we are their slaves)
assured me that in my case, this is unlikely.

In defense of his advice, the motto of epilepsy treatment is: "No seizures,
no side effects". So, while I had my EEG, I did not had a seizure but I was
uncomfortable (I did not feel  dizzy or something but again, I felt strange
and was not surprised they saw something). The outcome was: epilepsy
activity was found though I did not had any seizures during the EEG test.
So, in defense of his advice, I am diagnosed with epilepsy, I am having a
low dose of medication and it will take four or five years before they will
boot up the EEG test machine to see if all epilepsy activity is gone. So,
this means that at the moment epilepsy activity is still there but it will
not result in a seizure because of the medication I am taking. Correct me if
I am wrong. This epilepsy activity can of course give me some unpleasant
feelings.

The facts are however, and I quote now: "you are prescriped with the lowest
dose of medicines a person of our size / length / age , etc. can get. We
normally start with 1500 mg". In the beginning I felt dizzy in a different
way -while walking during for example my lunch break. That started after a
couple of weeks ago after I began to take medicines. Now we are almost one
year later and I do not have this anymore -however when I intensively watch
television, I get this power down feeling. I then shake my head or stand up
to do something and it is gone.

As for driving, etc. In mid February I can start driving again from legal
point of view, however I do not know if I really start driving again at that
date, because I do not need to drive and one year of seizure free period, oh
well, it is just one year, 365 days, etc. -not much in one human live. Maybe
I wait a bit to see where this power down button is located so that I can
fix that issue myself because one cannot trust a doctor as they are still in
learning mode. Maybe they slept when they learnt for their epilepsy exam,
got a couple of multiple choice, he choose the right questions and voila, he
can help patients diagnosed with epilepsy -oeioeioei.

> That is just plain wrong!

Exactly! I now know lots about epilepsy to know that this is bullshit
advice! (hehehe)

> All of my neurologists would rather take care of my prescription drugs for
> epilepsy themselves.

Yeah, I am still mad about this. I hate these kind of bureaucratic idiots
-those guys think they are too good for this world to write down a
prescription. Just getting the right answers on his multple choise epilepsy
chapter exam, does not mean he is qualified to treat me this way!

Cheers,

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Mary Fisher - 06 Jan 2005 10:26 GMT
>> I would seriously consider getting a different doctor.
>
> I am getting new doctors every time I am having an appointment in the
> hospital!

Yes, that's the difference between a national health service and private
medicine. There's something to commend the latter in this respect.

> I stated to him that there are many types of epilepsy, which means
> different
> type of seizures and a combination of seizures is possible

Marco!

You didn't dare suggest to a doctor <genuflecting> that you know more than
he does about your condition?

I'm surprised you left alive!

Seriously, this is a problem. I went for a regular appointment at my cancer
clinic, the (new to me) doctor smiled and told me I was cured. He couldn't
understand why I wasn't pleased with that statement.

He knows now and I don't think he'll say it again.

Mary

Mary
Satch - 06 Jan 2005 16:51 GMT
> Marco!
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'm surprised you left alive!

I do not care telling him that but at that point, I am mistaken and the
whole hospital would not take me seriously anymore + I would have gotten a
bad note in my dossier.

> I'm surprised you left alive!

I will survive anything I hope!

> Seriously, this is a problem. I went for a regular appointment at my
> cancer
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> He knows now and I don't think he'll say it again.

The only statement I wanted to make here is that learning from the text book
does not necessarily mean you can deal with patients. It all starts with
good communication and good listening. Smiling and telling me not to worry
and be happy, does not really work for me. I am sure there are others out
there in this newsgroup or outside this newsgroup that can share similar
experiences.

Furtheremore, the reason I told him all my experiences of last six months is
because I wanted him to make a good judgement whether I am eligible to drive
again (though from legal perspective I am eligible to drive). Smiling at me
means you simply do not understand epilepsy and its consequences though he
does know everything about neurons, exons, transmitters, glutamate and NMDA
receptor so to speak. You got my point?

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Mary Fisher - 06 Jan 2005 23:36 GMT
...

Smiling at me
> means you simply do not understand epilepsy and its consequences though he
> does know everything about neurons, exons, transmitters, glutamate and
> NMDA
> receptor so to speak. You got my point?

I have indeed. And I agree with you.

Tomorrow we go to stay with a son for a few days, I shall be back next week.

Mary
owlvee - 10 Jan 2005 00:37 GMT
Just go,go,go,go,go................
You are just SO lucky!
And I am just SO jealous!
At least ya describe to me the sites afterwards!!!
:)
owlvee

> ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Mary
Mary Fisher - 10 Jan 2005 16:05 GMT
> Just go,go,go,go,go................
> You are just SO lucky!
> And I am just SO jealous!
> At least ya describe to me the sites afterwards!!!
> :)
> owlvee

It was good.

The site is boring - flatland in Cambridgeshire (officer housing next to the
RAF station) and we slept in  bunkbeds in an 11 year old's bedroom.

Had wonderful meals, daughter in law is a fabulous cook, and lots of good
wine, champagne etc.

The best bit was that our presents to the grand daughters were declared to
be the best they'd ever had from anyone - a longbow and arrows each, with
target, background safety sheet, wrist guards, bags and the like. They had a
lovely time, despite the high wind and rain. In the dark hours they made
arrows.

Trouble is, we can't ever match that in the future!

Mary
Mary Fisher - 06 Jan 2005 10:21 GMT
> All of my neurologists would rather take care of my prescription drugs for
> epilepsy themselves.

That's an aspect I hadn't thought about but of course you're right ...

Mary

>> Hello,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>>
>> Bye,
 
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