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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / January 2005

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ssssss - 28 Dec 2004 23:00 GMT
I understand this may lower one's threshhold, but is this a recognized
cause of seizures in epileptics?  I drink lots of coffee and take
excedrine almost daily.  Ok, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
figure that this isn't very healthy, but do you my caffeine increase
could be related to  my seizure increase?  I can provide more details,
but if this is a dead end.. .
G.Ross - 29 Dec 2004 00:26 GMT
>I understand this may lower one's threshhold, but is this a recognized
> cause of seizures in epileptics?  I drink lots of coffee and take
> excedrine almost daily.  Ok, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
> figure that this isn't very healthy, but do you my caffeine increase
> could be related to  my seizure increase?  I can provide more details,
> but if this is a dead end.. .

 I just did a Longgg reply above and have dinner to do.   Do you have links
(since you use Google) to Google Search?   Try search of your Medication
name (Pharmacy name and counter name separate) and Excedrine.   So for e.g.
Tegretol would search 'Tegretol and excedrine'  *and 'Carbamazepine and
excedrine'   just in case there are some Doctor's posts on other information
sites that might relate to what you're looking for.
  I don't know what the active Ingredients are in Exced.  but would bet on
That contents before I'd go off looking at Caffeine or other things.    (I
used my Tegretol as example above, since I didn't have your particular Ep.
med. yet from my earlier post.)
   Later. (P.S. if you do google search for Caffeine *after others I
suggested above, note spelling here vs. subject line above.)  G./
Satch - 29 Dec 2004 08:01 GMT
> I understand this may lower one's threshhold, but is this a recognized
> cause of seizures in epileptics?  I drink lots of coffee and take
> excedrine almost daily.  Ok, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
> figure that this isn't very healthy, but do you my caffeine increase
> could be related to  my seizure increase?  I can provide more details,
> but if this is a dead end.. .

I drink lots of coffee during daytime and there is no scientific proove that
this is causing lowering in seizure threshold though it cannot be healthy as
I hate to admit. I would certainly having a look at the Excedrine
ingredients to see if that is causing a lowering in seizure threshold.

Of course, everyone is different, so why not drinking less coffee during
daytime for let's say one week and see what happens. Maybe it is the
combination of coffee and Excedrine. That is also a possibility.

Take care.
Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

Theo - 29 Dec 2004 20:41 GMT
>> I understand this may lower one's threshhold, but is this a
>> recognized cause of seizures in epileptics?  I drink lots of coffee
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Take care.

I was told to stay away from caffeine and artificial sweeteners as well.
And dammit I liked Jolt when it was time to study all night for high
school finals!
Satch - 30 Dec 2004 05:50 GMT
> I was told to stay away from caffeine and artificial sweeteners as well.
> And dammit I liked Jolt when it was time to study all night for high
> school finals!

Hummmffff...I hate to admit but there are indeed some websites that describe
aspartame (which was something I knew) AND excessive usage of caffeine in
combination with lowering in seizure threshold; e.g.:
http://usadrug.com/IMCAccess/ConsConditions/SeizureDisorderscc.shtml

Fortunate, I am probably not really the one that is affected by lowering in
seizure threshold because of excessive intake of caffeine -does that sound
like an addicted person?

This is however still NOT funny anymore!

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Marco
The Netherlands

Dave ???? - 30 Dec 2004 06:36 GMT
Howdy Marco!

At one time I was also told to reduce my caffeine. (I was taking tons of
barbiturates at the time and needed lots of coffee just to stay awake!)

This was NOT because caffeine can lower my seizure threshold but because it
can reduce the effeciency or counteract with some AEDs.

Personally I drink about 1 to 2 liters of coffee each and every day without
any ill effects. I get my 9 hours in every night...  I'd probably be
sleeping 26 hours a day without my caffeine!

I am also diabetic so I use nothing but artificial sweetners (mostly
saccharin.)

People are making sweeping universal statements about conditionals. If they
said:

"Caffeine MAY increase seizure activity IN SOME CASES"
I wouldn't have any problems with it...

BUT

When they say:
"Caffeine causes an increase in seizures"
they have overstated the case and have shown me that they clearly don't know
what they are talking about!

Signature

Dave ????

http://www.howdydave.com

> > I was told to stay away from caffeine and artificial sweeteners as well.
> > And dammit I liked Jolt when it was time to study all night for high
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> This is however still NOT funny anymore!
Satch - 30 Dec 2004 08:55 GMT
> This was NOT because caffeine can lower my seizure threshold but because
> it
> can reduce the effeciency or counteract with some AEDs.

Okay, got it! So back to the original posting / question then and my first
reply: most likely it is the combination of excedrine and caffeine that
"may" cause a problem, check ingredients and combinations and so on.

I guess we may need to conclude here that
http://usadrug.com/IMCAccess/ConsConditions/SeizureDisorderscc.shtml
provides incorrect information regarding caffeine on their website while
stating that  "Some studies have shown a connection with food allergies and
seizures in children. Avoid alcohol, caffeine, and aspartame".
Cheers Dave,
Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

G.Ross - 30 Dec 2004 17:52 GMT
>> This was NOT because caffeine can lower my seizure threshold but because
>> it
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> seizures in children. Avoid alcohol, caffeine, and aspartame".
> Cheers Dave,

That is correct.   I agree with Dave.    Just because something gets Posted
onto a website, does not instantly become 'Gospel'  unless you add
'According to xxxx' who posted it.
 Caffeine is hidden in the same sentence with Alcohol (flushes bloodstream
quicker so would reduce blood levels of many meds.) and Aspartame  (which
some people also might have a reaction to, but as Dave said people with
Sugar allergies or Diabetes need that as a sweetener source until something
else is developed).
  They also listed, later on Original thread, that  they took Excedrin or
something far more powerful than Caffeine that might affect e.g. blood
pressure, heart rate, or rate e.g. the digestive system might flush the Med.

  I noticed that is hidden Ahead of a Long list of products one **should
use--  Skullcap, Valerian, PassionFlower, Zinc, Manganese  (must pick up a
pint of Manganese while I'm out)... ,  Di-methylglycine, Taurine,  Folic
Acid (in many green veg.leaves already),  Vitamins B12 and B6 to **improve
szr. control....
 *From that, *My interpretation was it appeared to be a personal bias of
the webmaster that I have rarely seen confirmed or supported by other
general Science or Medical articles.   O.K.   *I Haven't **read ALL the
Medical Articles on the subject.

  But when I see a General Cure for ALL things by taking a Cup of Taurine
and 4 Mouthfuls of Passion Flower and all will be well,  I start to look
around for where they Parked their Broom....   Call it a Silly Bias brought
on by years of Brainwashing, but it was Brainwashing that is open to
updating or testing, and not just a blanket 'this is the cure for all'  with
all types of szrs.--  whether they were caused by an infection, head trauma,
or other things which can contribute to various seizure types.   There *are
places where some of those types of things can be used and effectively too,
for some types of seizures or the things that cause *some of  them, just not
100% of the seizures.
********
   Wrt. the original Caffeine thread that started this (spelling in Subj. I
left as it was, so this stays on the same message thread as other posts),
for Some people who might react to it, Other than Allergies or things that
could come from that OR from Chemicals used in some types of Decaffeination,
I'd bet that the Caffeine might stimulate Higher Heart Rate, and if that
were the Only exercise you were getting (see other thread-- Marco's?--about
Exercise / someone using Tegretol who had a szr. after a longer first
Workout on an Exercise Bike?) that workout might Flush out part of  medical
levels you need in your bloodstream for Seizure control.
 It *might be conceivable that some people who react more to Caffeine, but
still wanted Coffee, could use Swiss Water Processed *Decaf.Coffee for 1-2
weeks and see if their Seizures and Workout schedules get into a healthy
Synch. with each other.  It would be an easy enough test to do and they
could report back 'here' with what they had found. (The Sw.Water etc. above
is supposed to be a Chemical free Decaff. method of taking the caffeine out,
so would keep the coffee without introducing another chemical into the med./
metabolism/ szr. test.  It's marked on packages of coffee that use it. )

  (Note  if you are using *Diet Cola etc., many of those contain Aspartame
if you think you might have a reaction to that.  The ingredients are usually
sorted from Most prevalent (percent?) to least, in many countries.   I knew
someone who didn't have szrs. who was allergic to MSG (Mono Sodium
Glutamate) used as a preservative in Almost Everything, but increasingly
being legislated into labelling too.)   G./
ssssss - 31 Dec 2004 17:13 GMT
hey, thanks for the replies.

I had a nine hour shoulder surgery on Wed. that was the result of a
seizure.  The hospital served coffee and dilantin with my breakfast the
next day.
I suppose my original meannt to ask if caffeine was a widely known
cause of seizures--I suppose not, although in my case, it may be
related, I think I'll quit out of superstition if nothing else.

(I am still loopy from dilaudid).

Exedrine is aspirin, acetometophen and a big dose of caffeine.
thanks for the replies
Satch - 01 Jan 2005 13:13 GMT
> I had a nine hour shoulder surgery on Wed. that was the result of a
> seizure.  The hospital served coffee and dilantin with my breakfast the
> next day.
> I suppose my original meannt to ask if caffeine was a widely known
> cause of seizures--I suppose not, although in my case, it may be
> related, I think I'll quit out of superstition if nothing else.

That is one hell of a shoulder operation then. Hopefully you feel better by
now!

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

ssssss - 02 Jan 2005 08:51 GMT
>That is one hell of a shoulder operation then. Hopefully you feel better by
>now!

Well it was 2 hours, then the surgeon wasn't happy and spent 7 hours
re-doing it. Whenever I felt sorry for myself I thought,, "I bet
someone in Sri Lanki has a much more painful injury right now with no
doctirs, meds, etc."
Mike - 03 Jan 2005 07:31 GMT
What happened to your shoulder and what type of operation did you have?
Mine are messed up big time from seizures.
Mike

> >That is one hell of a shoulder operation then. Hopefully you feel
> better by
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> someone in Sri Lanki has a much more painful injury right now with no
> doctirs, meds, etc."
ssssss - 03 Jan 2005 07:35 GMT
I was on the treadmill, dislocated it and sustained a comminuted (sp?)
fracture of the humurous (sp?).  That night, at the ER, they said they
would need to operate, but instead they got the shoulder specialist to
put it back--I was sedated by then.  "Follow up with an ortho." A few
days later, the ortho said it needed surgery.  I was showering before a
pre surgery physical and seized, and fell on the fracture. Arrrgh!
Another trip to the ER.  So a week later it was an arthroscopic
surgery, and then he sewed up the fractures.  It really hurt for 4 days
and the night after the surgery curbed my enthusiasm for brain surgery!

Prior to this, I had always had an aura.  No aura these last two times;
this has scared me.
kompressor - 04 Jan 2005 05:08 GMT
They GAVE you coffee with your dilantin??? I love it! Keep that caffeine
intake going honey! We can't drink alcohol and can get pretty knocked
around with all our meds so a little bit of caffeine isn't such a bad
thing. I find that it helps to 'clear the fog' and next time I wake up in
Ward 8 I'll be demanding coffee with my dilantin - sore tongue or not ;-)
Satch - 04 Jan 2005 16:57 GMT
> They GAVE you coffee with your dilantin??? I love it! Keep that caffeine
> intake going honey! We can't drink alcohol and can get pretty knocked
> around with all our meds so a little bit of caffeine isn't such a bad
> thing. I find that it helps to 'clear the fog' and next time I wake up in
> Ward 8 I'll be demanding coffee with my dilantin - sore tongue or not ;-)

Mr. Kompressor!

You do know what you are talking about! I love coffee and no one, I repeat,
no one gets me off my morning / afternoon / evening drinking habit!

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Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

kompressor - 06 Jan 2005 07:21 GMT
Marco

Nothing quite beats the expectation, the lovely aroma and the flavour of
that first one for me but that never hinders me from ordering the second.
Today there were none - NONE! Isn't that just pitiful? I feel sorry for
myself just thinking about it ;-)

Tomorrow will hopefully bring a clear head and an able body to get out
there and make up for a lost day.

regards
Fran (not a Mr)
New Zealand
owlvee - 07 Jan 2005 00:53 GMT
Well Fran ("Ms maybe") ;)

Being at least a 2 or 3 a day expresso'er myself (plus), the tears are
flowing for us both!! :)

owlvee

> Marco
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Fran (not a Mr)
> New Zealand
kompressor - 07 Jan 2005 19:20 GMT
Cheers Owlvee!

Fran (that's better than Mr!)
New Zealand
Satch - 07 Jan 2005 20:58 GMT
> Fran (that's better than Mr!)
> New Zealand

Er, didn't you already forgive me then?
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Marco
The Netherlands

kompressor - 08 Jan 2005 08:46 GMT
Hey Marco

Just ignore cheeky New Zealanders. I don't recall seeing your previous
response earlier but am one lobe short of neuro-pack ;-)

Thanks for the info. I just used the car engine kompressor.

Cheers
Forgetful Fran
Satch - 08 Jan 2005 16:43 GMT
> I don't recall seeing your previous
> response earlier but am one lobe short of neuro-pack ;-)

Well, you could not see them earlier because I posted them simultaneously so
to speak...hehe :-)

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Marco
The Netherlands

Satch - 07 Jan 2005 20:58 GMT
> Being at least a 2 or 3 a day expresso'er myself (plus), the tears are
> flowing for us both!! :)

You are the man!

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Marco
The Netherlands

Satch - 07 Jan 2005 20:57 GMT
> regards
> Fran (not a Mr)
> New Zealand

It is like a multiple choice. You see "kompressor" and there is a 50% chance
kompressor is male / female. For your information, I recently failed a
multiple choise exam so go figure! I also never won the lotteries. Always
bad luck for me.

Anyways: appolgies for the small mistake :-)
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Marco
The Netherlands

Dave ???? - 08 Jan 2005 08:51 GMT
Howdy Marco!

I thought that "-or" was the masculine noun ending of several languages
(including Dutch?).

Sounds like a good excuse anyway!  :D

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Dave ????

http://www.howdydave.com

> > regards
> > Fran (not a Mr)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Anyways: appolgies for the small mistake :-)
Satch - 08 Jan 2005 16:41 GMT
> Sounds like a good excuse anyway!  :D

I know, I collect these for later use and memorise them by heart. There may
be a kompressorin out there as well! :-)

Signature

Thanks.

Marco
The Netherlands

ironjustice@aol.com - 07 Jan 2005 07:04 GMT
Actually .. in theory .. it should be .. GOOD .. for you ..

Due to the fact .. it is a VERY .. good .. iron binder ..

<<snip>>
caffeine (which inhibits iron absorption);
<<snip>>

Clin Ther. 1988;10(4):429-35. Related Articles, Links

Bioavailability of iron in prenatal multivitamin/multimineral
supplements administered to pregnant teenagers.

Dawson EB, McGanity WJ.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Texas Medical
Branch, Galveston.

Absorption of elemental iron from three single-daily-dose prenatal
multivitamin/multimineral supplements was compared in bioavailability
studies of subjects under fasting and postprandial conditions. Each of
the supplements (Stuartnatal 1 + 1, Stuart Prenatal, and Materna 1.60)
contained 60 or 65 mg of iron. The subjects, teenagers in the second
trimester of pregnancy, were assigned to the fasting or postprandial
conditions at intervals of three to seven days. For the postprandial
condition, subjects took the supplement after eating a standardized
meal that had been designed to provide a minimal amount of iron and no
caffeine (which inhibits iron absorption); blood was drawn at 0, 1, 3,
6, and 8 hours. Bioavailability studies showed that all three
supplements provided adequate levels (at least 3.5 mg) of absorbed iron
when taken postprandially. The highest quantity of net iron transport
as well as the most rapid intestinal transport in either condition was
yielded by Stuartnatal 1 + 1 taken in the fasting state. In the
postprandial condition, Materna 1.60 demonstrated the fastest transport
time and highest net iron transport; when given to a subject in the
fasting condition, however, this supplement provided less than the
recommended 3.5 mg of absorbed iron. These results suggest that iron
absorption is influenced by supplement formulation as well as the
presence or absence of food. Considering variations in compliance when
iron is to be taken on an empty stomach as well as variable absorption
in the fasting state, the most reliable supplementation would appear to
be achieved by instructing pregnant women to take
multivitamin/multimineral supplements at mealtime.

PMID: 3274250 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

-------------------------------------------------------------

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Tom

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Man Is A Herbivore!
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DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice
 
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