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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / November 2004

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Not diagnosed with epilepsy, but have concerns about a "spell" I had

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Just Lyndy - 18 Nov 2004 14:03 GMT
The other night, I was praciticing martial arts when I fell and
twisted my ankle.  It was rather excruciating - thought I had broken
it.  I layed on the floor for about 5 min. before attempting to get
up.

I then went upstairs and sat down on the couch.  I was nervous about
my ankle, and my son was trying to find me an ice pack.  The smells
left over from dinner made me nauscious enough, that I told my son to
wash the dishes (which he rarely does.)  And, then I said, I thought I
was going to get sick - then immediately said I felt like I was going
to pass out.

My son was asking me where the ice pack was while he was looking for
it - I guess he called out - Mom, mom, and then realized something was
wrong.

From the time I said I was going to pass out - of course I don't
remember anything, until I came to.
But, this is what my husband and son said happenened.  They said they
looked at me and my body went ridged - hands curled into fists and
arms straight out - as well as my legs.  My eyes were rolled back in
my head (said my eyes looked "huge".)  My cheeks were puffed out - and
I made a sound - like a growl/snoring.

Then, when I started to come to, they asked me if I knew where I was -
at first no response, then I said, "no" - then finally, "home."

I think this was a shock-response to me spraining my ankle.
I didn't want to go to the hospital that night - but the next day, I
had called the dr's office and it was her day off, so I ended up going
to the hospital anyway because the nurse said it sounded like a
seizure.

Well, we get to the hospital and there is a very young dr. - he
couldn't be older than 25.  I'm only in my 30's, so I'm pretty sure he
was younger than me.

He didn't think I had a seizure, but that I had only fainted. He says
because I wasn't disorientated enough afterwards.  He did do a CAT
scan, and it didn't show up anything.  Blood tests didn't show up
anything either.  But, what did concern me was that he said I might
want to have a urinalysis done because blood had shown up - and I had
already informed him that I was menstruating.  So with all of that and
our questions still not answered, I thought I'd post to the ones who
would know from experience what is and isn't a seizure - than from a
dr. barely out of med school that said, "From my experience, you
didn't have a seizure." (Which later my dh commented, "How much
experience with seizures do you think he has had?"

Today I'm going to my family dr. so that I can bring up the concerns
with her.

Thanks for listening.
gaross - 18 Nov 2004 14:59 GMT
> The other night, I was praciticing martial arts when I fell and
> twisted my ankle.  It was rather excruciating - thought I had broken
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> to the hospital anyway because the nurse said it sounded like a
> seizure.
*** Many things including reaction to food (above), overheated environment,
'women's stuff' below? , or other things can lead to dizziness and some of
the symptoms you described.   But you did go ahead with steps to have it
checked out which is good.  (more below)/

> Well, we get to the hospital and there is a very young dr. - he
> couldn't be older than 25.  I'm only in my 30's, so I'm pretty sure he
> was younger than me.
*** I'd Important next time to ask for an OLDE Doctor,  One who finished
school in the 1940s so he's unskilled in treating Brain and Body systems and
thinks that seizures are caused by Demons or spirits.  Be sure to do that
next time.

> He didn't think I had a seizure, but that I had only fainted. He says
> because I wasn't disorientated enough afterwards.  He did do a CAT
> scan, and it didn't show up anything.  Blood tests didn't show up
> anything either.
**** Most of the people here can wait from 4-8 weeks for a CAT (Computerized
Tomography) Scan, because of waiting lists for the specialized equipment and
even where they are running 24 hours Per Day to do diagnostics.
You got one run after walking into a hospital, the same day as you arrived.
The Blood work looks for changes in the content that might occur with some
of the types of seizures or other conditions.   They didn't find any of the
tell-tale symptoms.   The CAT Scan can locate (brain) bleeding or damage
down to fractions of an inch (thousandths?) and they found nothing out of
order while you were there.  /

 But, what did concern me was that he said I might
> want to have a urinalysis done because blood had shown up - and I had
> already informed him that I was menstruating.
*** Did he Know that?   Although you had told him, it might not have been
written down, and Emerg. is a high stress place to work,so get a diagnosis.
I assume their records etc. will be forwarded to your regular doctor and
they can decide if other tests might be appropriate.
  It's not uncommon for a Dr. to not have all the information about us, but
they do the best with the information they can.    They
aren't,however,Psychic so if other conditions are in play *especially ones
which,by themselves,can produce some of the symptoms you described?? (I
think -- some of the women here can comment better than I on that.)  Many
bodily conditions, colds, blood pressure changes, etc. can produce some of
the symptoms similar to seizures without them being Epilepsy or more extreme
conditions.  But your regular doctor can check those (like with more Blood
work in 2-4 weeks)  to see that it's not another ?? because of a passing
effect on something in your bloodstream at the time that might affect
symptoms.

** If you can see one of Julie's Posts still up, go to the Idaho Ep. News
site and it has charts of seizure types and symptoms (most you didn't have),
plus information on seizures etc.  *If you find out that it Wasn't something
like that please **besureto tell you Son  what was found.    If might be
Very Scary for a Child to be told his Mom has to go to Emerg, then not know
if she's 'coming back' or what  might be 'wrong with you'....

 So with all of that and
> our questions still not answered, I thought I'd post to the ones who
> would know from experience what is and isn't a seizure - than from a
> dr. barely out of med school that said, "From my experience, you
> didn't have a seizure." (Which later my dh commented, "How much
> experience with seizures do you think he has had?"
*******See above.

ng to my family dr. so that I can bring up the concerns
> with her.
>
> Thanks for listening.
Mary Fisher - 18 Nov 2004 16:11 GMT
"Just Lyndy" <Just.Lyndy@gmail.com> wrote in message >

> But, this is what my husband and son said happenened.  They said they
> looked at me and my body went ridged - hands curled into fists and
> arms straight out - as well as my legs.  My eyes were rolled back in
> my head (said my eyes looked "huge".)  My cheeks were puffed out - and
> I made a sound - like a growl/snoring.

That does sound like what many of us have experienced during a seizure - so
we've been told :-)

> Then, when I started to come to, they asked me if I knew where I was -
> at first no response, then I said, "no" - then finally, "home."

I don't think that's relevant.

> I think this was a shock-response to me spraining my ankle.
> I didn't want to go to the hospital that night - but the next day, I
> had called the dr's office and it was her day off, so I ended up going
> to the hospital anyway because the nurse said it sounded like a
> seizure.

Some professionals simply have no experience of these things. The nurse had
an inkling, I think.

> Well, we get to the hospital and there is a very young dr. - he
> couldn't be older than 25.  I'm only in my 30's, so I'm pretty sure he
> was younger than me.
>
> He didn't think I had a seizure, but that I had only fainted. He says
> because I wasn't disorientated enough afterwards.

You don't need to be disoriented afterwards..

> I thought I'd post to the ones who
> would know from experience what is and isn't a seizure - than from a
> dr. barely out of med school that said, "From my experience, you
> didn't have a seizure." (Which later my dh commented, "How much
> experience with seizures do you think he has had?"

Quite. You can't blame the doctor, they're not magicians and while he might
have been taught about seizures he might not remember the facts. Also,
manifestations of seizures are very different, there is no classic event,
just common features. Also, some doctors might not want to frighten you
about what might be a one-off event.

Scans CAN show some damage to the brain but not necessarily.

> Today I'm going to my family dr. so that I can bring up the concerns
> with her.

Let us know what happens.

Where are you?

Mary
gaross - 18 Nov 2004 17:45 GMT
> The other night, I was praciticing martial arts when I fell and
> twisted my ankle.  It was rather excruciating - thought I had broken
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> with her.
> Thanks for listening.

>   *** Less brusque addendum -->  (Note the first of 2 first aid charts if
that would be of comfort for your son.)

 This is as good a spot as any to Paste an Olde Post I do from time to
time, that lists about 5 Websites and short book report about what they are.
You might find Julie's First Aid for Seizures sites of interest or comfort,
since they explain (for others) what to do -- one on Land, another in Water,
to help others feel more comfortable with us.
  Also within the Older First Aid site, I think it describes Behaviours
specific to some of the more common seizure types, so some of you might
recognize what others witness vs. what it describes there of interest.

**********
There are a number of sites around the group that get posted from time to
time.  Some of the symptoms (at bottom) that you might see, might be
displayed on one of the First Aid for Seizures Websites below -- likely to
first 'seizure' one.   If you look down the first aid chart, I think it
shows 3 or 4 main types of seizures down one column, then the types of
things that can be done.
  Under the Symptoms or Sensations columns are the types of  'aura' or
sensation that might be specific to a particular seizure type.   That is
usually used by a Doctor at first to identify possible location where the
seizure is Launching From.  Then further tests (EEG, MRI, CT)  might look at
more detailed internals.
  For *your use, all you likely need is the chart, and the Symptoms with
the First Aid for whichever type most closely matches what he has.
  NOTE - within Julie's Idaho Main website, and on Howdy Dave's there are
links to the Ep. Foundation of America that has a Medications Glossary and
more detail on specific seizure types that you can search out at your own
pace. I also included the one entrance at bottom below.
  Also some of the minor seizures that don't result in loss of
consciousness, might be grouped under either 'absences' (if a person appears
to 'zone out' for short periods),  or simple partials (that might just
include an Aura then a return to normal.   *If someone has been having these
for a long time, these *might seem like the New Normal for them so they may
not be Aware that those are an Aura.  OR they might prefer to 'not see them'
for what they are.  //

 Each of the sites can be put on a Bookmark or Favourite so that you can
then refer back to see if there are updates without needing to remember the
www address each time. hth. G.R.
**********
 For anyone who hasn't seen these already -->
The General Site that Julie operates for Epilepsy Idaho group is at:
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org .

The 'First Aid chart' I frequently refer to can be located by entering and
wandering about site above, but can be reached direct at
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm  .
 There's a Second topic added, that goes more into First
Aid in Water, on Aircraft, etc.  It's at
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure2.htm  .

 Also accessible from top site, but more detail on Learning about Epilepsy
can be found at http://www.epilepsyidaho/learn.htm   .  That one has quite a
few more links, information on kids newly diagnosed? (I think) and general
questions that others might ask, or those newly diagnosed.

  If there's no link there to a Medications Glossary, the Ep. Foundation of
America has one (of several)  within http://efa.org   .        G./
Julie - 19 Nov 2004 00:26 GMT
Hi Lyndy, welcome to our group.  Your description does sound like a tonic
clonic seizure to me, they used to call this a grand mal seizure.  However
there are other things that can cause a person to stiffen out and lose
consciousness, for example my mother's heart was stopping and it caused
her to stiffen out.  Fortunately we were at the emergency room at the time
this was happening, but I was the only person to see it several times.
Finally I got their attention and she ended up with a pace maker.

I am the one in our family who has tonic clonic seizures.  I had one once
after a traumatic event.  I get dizzy, see twinkly stars, hear a fuzzy
sound and then I go unconscious.  While unconscious I stiffen out and
jerk.  I used to bite my tongue, so I would spit out blood.  When I start
to come to it takes awhile to be able to respond.  My husband would talk
to me and I could hear him but not answer for a few minutes.  After the
seizure I would be exhausted.  I feel like someone ran over me with a
truck because my muscles had worked too hard, I ache and just want to
sleep.

The doctor's comment about you not being disoriented enough doesn't make
sense to me.  I'm not disoriented once I regain consciousness.  I know who
I am and where I am.

You mentioned you were having your menstrual cycle at the time.  That is
when I used to have my seizures.  I was a teenager when this started and I
thought I was just fainting alot during this time of the month.  There is
information about the connection between seizures and hormones.
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/answerplace/Life/adults/women/weihormones.cfm

I hope you get good support from your doctor, remember they are there to
serve YOU and if they don't seem to be listening, find a doctor who is a
neurologist.  Personally, I have found that some emergency room doctors do
not impress me.  We had one working on my mother this year.  He was pretty
young and didn't seem too bright!

Please let us know how things work out.
Take care,
Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

> The other night, I was praciticing martial arts when I fell and
> twisted my ankle.  It was rather excruciating - thought I had broken
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Thanks for listening.
Just Lyndy - 19 Nov 2004 18:24 GMT
Thanks to all who replied.

I talked to my Dr. and she did say that it was a seizure, but not one
to worry about as it had to do with fainting (not particularly the
seizure.)  That there are some people who do have seizures in
association with a fainting spell.  I guess the younger dr. was sort
of right, but not convincing enough. ;~)

I also talked to my dad today - and he said that I had seizures up
until the age of 4 and never mentioned them to me before because they
had stopped.
I was suprised to hear that because my brother who is 2 yrs younger
than me does have epilepsy - he doesn't have seizures frequently, but
still has them once in a while.

I guess this is something I will have to discuss with my dr.

Take care,

Lyndy
Mary Fisher - 19 Nov 2004 19:40 GMT
> Thanks to all who replied.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> I guess this is something I will have to discuss with my dr.

I think you should - but others might disagree. It's a difficult one :-(

Mary

> Take care,
>
> Lyndy
Julie - 19 Nov 2004 21:32 GMT
Hi Lyndy, yes that little piece of information may have come in handy in
discussing this with your doctor.  Please do contact him/her.  Does your
brother have a neurologist?  Maybe its time to pay that doctor a visit.
Remember doctors are only human.  I went undiagnosed for at least 5
years.  I thought I was only fainting.

Take care,
Julie

> Thanks to all who replied.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Lyndy

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