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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / September 2004sleep, epilepsy, medicines
Dear a.s.epilepsy, years ago I found an article from a Dr Declerck who wrote about the connection between epilepsy and needing a lot of sleep. It explained how, because of the disruptions of the brain, an epileptic person would need much longer to reach the deepest types of sleep, and was quickly back in superficial sleep. As you need to get a certain amount of deep sleep to feel refreshed, this is a disaster. This article meant a lot to me cause people think I am a very lazy person, needing 9.5 hours of sleep a day without exception, and still being tired often. I would like to read more about this, and it is ok if it is a bit technical. Can anybody point me to a good read? And did anybody need LESS sleep since using a specific medicine? I tried Tegretol YEARS ago but decided to stop since I felt it made me emotionally bland. I never tried nothing else yet. thank you for your replies, Chris PS I got a relatively mild form of epilepsy: * got first grand mal when 16 or 17 after exhausting camp (possibly earlier) * get jerks in my sleep often, possibly epileptic. I regularly wake up with bitten tong. * 'grand mal' when exhausted, computer monitor helps triggering (flickering). Such daily attack occurs about once in 1 to 1.5 year only, as I guard my sleep carefully (...so far for my social life...). * warnings for grand mal are jerks in arms and legs, plus instable feeling in the head, sort of electrical dizzy. * EEG shows 'paroxysmal disruptive discharges of subcortical origin' (yeah there! memory sometimes works! but i don't really know what it means except the literal meaning...) ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ---- > * 'grand mal' when exhausted, computer monitor helps triggering > (flickering). Such daily attack occurs about once in 1 to 1.5 year only, > as I guard my sleep carefully (...so far for my social life...). Sorry i did not mean 'such daily attack' but 'such a daytime attack'. I not native english speaker is. > > * 'grand mal' when exhausted, computer monitor helps triggering > > (flickering). Such daily attack occurs about once in 1 to 1.5 year only, > > as I guard my sleep carefully (...so far for my social life...). > > Sorry i did not mean 'such daily attack' but 'such a daytime attack'. > I not native english speaker is. The Doctor might not prescribe a High dose of pills, or maybe None, if you're only having seizures each 1 to 1.5 years. Most of us who use Tegretol etc. take it every day since without it, we might have 2-3 seizure per month. Several of the seizure types happen more easily if you become over-tired. Unless you were having night time seizures (so less sleep from those), the Dr. might not want you on a strong Pill if there were other ways to get a more restful sleep, so have less seizures. G./ > Dear a.s.epilepsy, > years ago I found an article from a Dr Declerck who wrote about the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > back in superficial sleep. As you need to get a certain amount of deep > sleep to feel refreshed, this is a disaster. ** Hi. Depending how old the article was, he might have meant REM (Rapid Eye Movement) as the deep sleep? If someone is restless or awakens often during the night, they won't reach the deeper sleep phases and will still be tired in the morning. There are newer medications now that might help with getting a restful (non-seizure) sleep, and be more restful if you're still having those types of nights. (more below) > This article meant a lot to me cause people think I am a very lazy > person, needing 9.5 hours of sleep a day without exception, and still > being tired often. > > I would like to read more about this, and it is ok if it is a bit > technical. Can anybody point me to a good read? You could try a Google search http://www.google.com ?? (a guess) and do a search on Sleep Apnea (for one) or even just Sleep&Epilepsy --> if that link takes you into google o.k. you can use '&' to combine searches to reduce number of articles you might retrieve. For example, if you just type epilepsy and click on Search, it might come back and say "I've found 17,000 articles with the word Epilepsy, would you like to read the first *50 now? or would you like to refine your search?". The More things you can combine to target your search the Better Google or other searches can find you online articles that are of use to you. Someone ELSE here might know if there are other terms for restless sleep, you could search on, rather than sleep apnea. They will reply in next day or 2 if there are other ideas. (This is an International group, so read it several times a day for replies. We have several people in Europe, Many in North America (5 timezones) plus some in Australia, so you can get replies that might help for several days.) / > And did anybody need LESS sleep since using a specific medicine? I tried > Tegretol YEARS ago but decided to stop since I felt it made me > emotionally bland. I never tried nothing else yet. *** If they prescribed Tegretol several years ago, there are about 5 versions now. I use Controlled Release (in Canada), that's to be taken once or 2x a day, and gives a low Stable dose all day long. If you used the older type, it may have left your bloodstream quicker so given erratic control when you were using it. The newer versions give a better Even dose, for those who can get control with it. There are also many Newer medications for your particular type of seizure that might be better for Grand Mal type. (Mine are Complex Partial, but I think Tegretol is used for several types of seizures.) / > thank you for your replies, > Chris [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > * get jerks in my sleep often, possibly epileptic. I regularly wake up > with bitten tong. *** Above usually means you're having seizures during the night when you Relax. We're more prone to have seizures then than during the daytime in many cases. You might just need a small dose in Morning and night to get control. There is also a mouthguard you can get (from a dentist or I can tell you about a cheap version) if you still have night time seizures and are using medicines, or if you still get tooth or tongue pains in the morning. > * 'grand mal' when exhausted, computer monitor helps triggering > (flickering). Such daily attack occurs about once in 1 to 1.5 year only, > as I guard my sleep carefully (...so far for my social life...). *** I don't know what the Computer Monitors are like in the Netherlands->most of the New computer screens have a higher Refresh rate (less flicker) than 5 years ago. Some people use a Liquid Crystal Screen (LCD) but I've only met one person here in 6 years who needed that type of screen, to avoid the Flicker effect she was troubled by./ > * warnings for grand mal are jerks in arms and legs, plus instable > feeling in the head, sort of electrical dizzy. *** Do you lose consciousness during some seizuree? If you do, is there anything in Netherlands like Medic Alert in North America (a bracelet you wear that identifies a Medical Condition for a Doctor or Ambulance)? Mine says 'Seizure Disorder' -- some others here just list Epilepsy on their bracelet so a Doctor knows what is happening. (The Medic Alert I use have a Centrail Record of Medications I use on their computer file, my Blood Type and other conditions I might have.) / > * EEG shows 'paroxysmal disruptive discharges of subcortical origin' > (yeah there! memory sometimes works! but i don't really know what it > means except the literal meaning...) *** You could also use Google above to search on 'parozysmal disruptive discharges'. Or the last part Separately. I think that last part just means the Electrical discharges happen inside the Cortex of the Brain. So that's the location where any 'seizure focus' you have is. It appears they think that's where any erratic electrical firings start as your seizure begins. It's likely the discharges (if you still have those) that were causing your original seizures. G./ > You could try a Google search http://www.google.com ?? (a guess) and do a > search on Sleep Apnea (for one) or even just Sleep&Epilepsy well i started looking there of course but found no quality information, so i was hoping for some direct pointers. Sites, books, personal knowledge? > Someone ELSE here might know if there are other terms for restless sleep, > you could search on, rather than sleep apnea. apnea is when you don't breath for a while during sleep. I don't think that that applies. > *** I don't know what the Computer Monitors are like in the > Netherlands->most of the New computer screens have a higher Refresh rate > (less flicker) than 5 years ago. Maybe I tried to summarize too much. At home it was induced so in 1995-ish, when the affordable monitors had a low rate, my dad gave me a expensive one after that. At work an older monitor helped starting in combination with TL light tubes, sleep deprivation and fasting. There I got a new monitor now too. >>* warnings for grand mal are jerks in arms and legs, plus instable >>feeling in the head, sort of electrical dizzy. > > *** Do you lose consciousness during some seizuree? If you do, is there > anything in Netherlands like Medic Alert There is, but I usually just tell people around me, and stay home when i feel bad. I should rewrite the worn note in my wallet, i suppose. >> You could try a Google search http://www.google.com ?? (a guess) and do a >> search on Sleep Apnea (for one) or even just Sleep&Epilepsy > well i started looking there of course but found no quality information, so i was hoping for some direct pointers. Sites, books, > personal knowledge? >> Someone ELSE here might know if there are other terms for restless sleep, >> you could search on, rather than sleep apnea. > apnea is when you don't breath for a while during sleep. I don't think that that applies. [...] It probably did for me. Severe sleep apnea can reduce the blood 02 levels to dangerous levels night after night (mine reached 62% in the first 1.5 hours of sleep in a sleep-study). Heart problems and damage (and brain damage - likely what happened to me with a predisposition from prenatal brain damage combined with the OSA) can result from obstructive sleep apnea. Even with treatment (CPAP gear), it was quite a while before I could get more than about 5 hours of sleep a day, or much REM and late stage sleep (though before the CPAP treatment, I was getting 8-10 hours a day of "sleep" - but it was doing me more harm than good). Other night problems (which I have, but they don't wake me) are Periodic Limb Movement Syndrome and Restless Legs - in addition to seizures. BTW, quick indicators for OSA (not all need apply) are severe tiredness, having to go to the bathroom at night, failure to remember having dreamed, and snoring with snorts and breath-holding. A simple test that is 70% reliable is the use of a recording oximeter overnight - it clips onto a finger and records 02 levels for up to 8-10 hours, and is easy/cheap to get the use of with a doctor's prescription. --DR > > You could try a Google search http://www.google.com ?? (a guess) and do a > > search on Sleep Apnea (for one) or even just Sleep&Epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > There is, but I usually just tell people around me, and stay home when i > feel bad. I should rewrite the worn note in my wallet, i suppose. Howdy! Must be nice to have a premonition like that! In spite of the fact that I wear a MedicAlert bracelet, I always carry 2 documents in my wallet: A list of all of my medications (including dosages), medical contacts (all of my doctors) and personal contacts. A copy of my health care proxy. (It's my redundancy program.) :)  SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com I am on phenytoin (dilantin), topiramate and sertraline (for depression) (all spelled right,I think, for the first time because I looked on the bottles :) ) also need a lot of sleep having all different types of seizures. I sleep for 9/10 hours a day also, but go thru stages where I go thru days where I just seem to sleep very little at all. I sleep just four or five hours a night. I don't know if maybe it is just a prelude to a seizure of an after effect of one. As I type, I have been getting about 5/6 hours sleep for the past 6/7 days. Maybe it is nerves or something but I vary from week to week as to the amount required............... owlvee > Dear a.s.epilepsy, > years ago I found an article from a Dr Declerck who wrote about the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble! > -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ---- pleasen help...have been epileptic for 2.5ears with no diagnosis..need someone to talk to Howdy! I'm confused! If you have never been diagnosed, how do you know that you have epilepsy? Epilepsy isn't the only thing that can cause seizures! SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > pleasen help...have been epileptic for 2.5ears with no diagnosis..need someone > to talk to > pleasen help...have been epileptic for 2.5ears with no diagnosis..need someone > to talk to So tell the group about it.................... Talk on!!!!!!!!!
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