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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / July 2004triggers
Hi all, is not eating enough a normal trigger for seizures? My daughter finds that when she has not had enough to eat or if she eats a meal later than usual, it triggers off seizures. A friend of mine is a nurse and suggested perhaps a fasting glucose test, but it was not that long ago that she had full blood work-up, and there are no other DMI symptoms, so I just wondered if a normal drop in blood sugar (as opposed to being diabetic) is enough to trigger it off? She seems to get alot of probs with it during sports and PE at school--is exertion a normal trigger? Math was the third trigger, and I have no clue as to why she would keep having probs in math! This is kind of a new thing. This started just a couple months ago, and she just got her EEG results last week and has her first neurologist appt. friday. Any suggestions you may have would be helpful. cogge A quick question, how old is your daughter? The reason I ask, I had seizures quite often during my period. Just a thought. I'll see if I have time later to research the blood sugar drop question. Gotta go now. Julie > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > cogge > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > cogge Some people may have issues with carbohydrates and sugars and fail to produce sugars efficient, due to insuffiency or lack of insulin. The result is high blood sugar (hyperglycemia). The body tries to use fats as an energy source instead, but the by-products of metabolizing fats (ketones) build up in the bloodstream. Symptoms of uncontrolled diabetes can include mood swings, lightheadedness, frequent urination, fainting, seizures and even diabetic coma. The risk of developing diabets increases with age, obesity and physical inactivity. It is true that for example reading a book, watching a movie (photosensitivity) can sometimes cause seizures. At page 16 of "Practial guide to epilepsy" written by Mark Manford, you will find a couple of lines regarding reading and (intense) thinking. After reading for some time. Jaw starts to click and myoclonus of face then tonic-clonic seizures. May be triggered by other language functions e.g. writing or speaking and may have family history. Possibly a variant of juvenile myoclonic epilepsy (JME). Intense mental concentration e.g. with card games, problem solving or chess, triggers atonic-clonic seziure. Possible a variant of JME. The food issue may be non-related but the seizure doing maths sound like a variant of JME. Doing maths may indeed be a trigger in your case. I guess your child is at the age of 9 - 10 years old? This may also have something to do with female hormones which was stated in another posting. Best to you on Friday when you hear some results.  SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco Actually she is 12 and she has them about 5 times a week and sometimes 3 or 4 times a day, so the hormonal thing would be a difficult link to establish. She is very paranoid about the DMI symptoms, as she is intensely and melo-dramatically needle phobic. (she says "I am NOT!" ;-) ) I understand that blood sugar problems could trigger seizures in a diabetic person, but will an EEG show temporal lobe slowing/spiking in a consistent epileptiform pattern when hyper/hypoglycemia is the cause? cogge > Actually she is 12 and she has them about 5 times a week and sometimes 3 or > 4 times a day, so the hormonal thing would be a difficult link to establish. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > cogge There are some study results here: <http://www.diabetic-help.com/Changes%20In%20%20EEG%20in%20Diabetics> Did the doctor indicate which type of seizure disorder he thinks is possible. I'm asking this because symptoms can be different depending on the seizure type (and there are over 20 types of seizure disorders). It just would help us help you if we had more information. Barb She has not seen the doctor yet--tomorrow she will. I had the hospital fax me the EEG report. I talked to the neuro's office who read the EEG and he was not very helpful. The description in the EEG was left frontal lobe temporal lobe activity consistent with a seizure disorder. she sees colored spots and gets double vision, she gets faint and feels like she will pass out, she gets disoriented and almost panicky and right side arm and hand goes numb and prickly and then starts shaking (myoclonically?) 3 Times she had disorientation/confusion, with twice having severe "spells" of what seems like a post-ictal state, and the rest of the time the episodes seem like simple partial seizures. She has then nearly daily and often multiple times a day. She is 12 years old going into 7th grade, and has always been very healthy. She has, in fact, been cognitively on the gifted end, though difficult to motivate. She had a severe depressive episode in 3rd grade and had to take medication for it. We have a strong family history of bipolar disorder, which I, myself, have as well as my brother and my mother. My son had grand mal seizures as a toddler, but not very many. My internet research leads me to suspect JME, though she has not had the characteristic morning seizures--they are usually in the afternoon/evening. The other possibility is temporal lobe epilepsy, but it doesn't seem as bad as what TLE seems to be. But it sure has become a problem quick, because it only started about 6 weeks ago and already she has them like daily. cogge > She has not seen the doctor yet--tomorrow she will. I had the hospital fax > me the EEG report. I talked to the neuro's office who read the EEG and he > was not very helpful. The description in the EEG was left frontal lobe > temporal lobe activity consistent with a seizure disorder. Does this mean both frontal AND temporal lobes are involved? > she sees colored spots and gets double vision, she gets faint and feels like > she will pass out, she gets disoriented and almost panicky and right side [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > seem like simple partial seizures. She has then nearly daily and often > multiple times a day. I have TLE (started as simple then went to complex). I'm not familiar with anything but the kinds of seizures I've had, of course. There can be irregular heart beats with TLE which could be causing some of the fainting and passing out feelings, or it could be from the really intense tiredness that follows a seizure. Usually, in my experience, my appetite abruptly ceases (you feel more like you ate a whole watermelon), and I guess this is somehow connected to the irregular heartbeats. I used to have a lot of seizures in the same day (also at night) and it's like you don't really recover between them. There were little things like startling really bad, paranoia (fear, apprehension or whatever you want to call it), and things like that that just hung on in between seizures. A lot of times I didn't even know that this in-between seizure stuff was still active until a bird flew by the window scaring the devil out of me or someone knocked on the back door and I was afraid to answer it. There are other things, but these were just two examples. > She is 12 years old going into 7th grade, and has > always been very healthy. She has, in fact, been cognitively on the gifted > end, though difficult to motivate. She had a severe depressive episode in > 3rd grade and had to take medication for it. We have a strong family > history of bipolar disorder, which I, myself, have as well as my brother and > my mother. My son had grand mal seizures as a toddler, but not very many. I was about 19 or 20 when mine first started (why is the question) and then I just had panic, a funny feeling, and then feeling dead tired immediately after. A mot more symptoms were added as time passed because I didn't know what was happening and neither did the doctor I saw at one point. Boy, she's lucky to have you as a mom 'cause it sounds like you are right on top of this. > My internet research leads me to suspect JME, though she has not had the > characteristic morning seizures--they are usually in the afternoon/evening. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > cogge Sounds like you've been through some of this with your son. It is such a relief you were able to get help for your daughter so quickly; it's just going to save a lot of problems for your daughter. Boy, you are also really lucky that the EEG caught it. Barb > Does this mean both frontal AND temporal lobes are involved? This is verbatim of the EEG report: "IMPRESSION: This is an [EEG] that shows some unusual slowing and sharp wave activity over the left frontal temporal area. This would be consistant with a seizure disorder" I imagine tomorrow the neurologist will be able to tell us more. > Sounds like you've been through some of this with your son. He had a grand mal tonic clonic seizure when he was 17 months old. He stopped breathing even and was unconscious for quite awhile. About 4 months later he had another seizure where he looked like he was shivering all over and spacey for about 30 seconds and then he threw up. At that point he was put on phenobarb, and he didn't have any more motor seizures, but within the next 6 months he appeared developmentally delayed. We could not tell the cause, whether the phenobarb was too cognitively dampening or maybe because he had spinal meningitis when he was a month old--we didn't know, but the doc took him off the phenobarb and sent him to a dev. pediatrician who dxed him with pervasive developmental disorder (related to autism) He has never had any other seizures, though he does have some pronounced autistic qualities to his behaviors. It is such a relief > you were able to get help for your daughter so quickly; it's just going to save > a lot of problems for your daughter. Well it was kind of a bizarre thing--she had her first one which had a pretty severe post-ictal following it(she slept from 4 pm until noon the next day) and then within a week she had like 3 (one other complex and the rest simple) and then this last week she had a complex one but in 6 weeks it went from the 1st episode up to daily within days. I think people who don't catch it quick must have a slower onset or something. Boy, you are also really lucky that the > EEG caught it. I am just anxious to see what kind of diagnosis it will yield. Labels are sometimes useful for many reasons. For one, it helps with getting the right medication, but also, she missed quite a bit of school towards the end of the year, and I think some of her teachers may have thought she was just trying to get out of class. If she has an actual label to her symptoms, they can be more accomodating if she needs to go lay down. Thanks for all your insight, I am not sure what to think about all this just yet--I am still in a state of unsureity. cogge > > Does this mean both frontal AND temporal lobes are involved? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I imagine tomorrow the neurologist will be able to tell us more That 'left frontal temporal area' phrase sounds confusing to me. Hey, I'm not too swift on some of this stuff! > > Sounds like you've been through some of this with your son. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > had any other seizures, though he does have some pronounced autistic > qualities to his behaviors. That poor little boy has been through a lot. How old is he now? > It is such a relief > > you were able to get help for your daughter so quickly; it's just going to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > went from the 1st episode up to daily within days. I think people who don't > catch it quick must have a slower onset or something. I never slept that long, but I think some of the other folks have been zonked out for long times. Maybe someone else on this newgroup will pop in here with some input. > Boy, you are also really lucky that the > > EEG caught it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > your insight, I am not sure what to think about all this just yet--I am > still in a state of unsureity. I agree with you on everything you said. It's probably not possible, but I wish teachers had some training on recognizing some of this stuff. Some of these teachers see these kids more hours per day than some parents see them. Are you going to talk to any of the teachers she had this past year that she had a medical problem? Barb > cogge > That poor little boy has been through a lot. How old is he now? He is 7 1/2 now. He is going into second grade. He actually is quite capable academically, but he is socially delayed. He is so concrete in his thinking, he does not understand humor, and he is fascinated with it. If you tell him something is funny, he will believe you, no matter how ridiculous it may be (the grass is green ha ha ha--he laughs) He had alot of behavior problems this last year, but he had a nazi teacher who did not believe in his autistic diagnosis and insisted that he was just willfully disobedient, and she would punish him repeatedly. I think he went two whole months w/o recess. He is really sweet and not a willful bone in his body. > I agree with you on everything you said. It's probably not possible, but I wish > teachers had some training on recognizing some of this stuff. probably a bad idea anyway. Many of them assume they are qualified to diagnose ADHD and they sometimes try to strongarm parents into drugging their kids. My middle daughter has so focus probs, but I try hard to not have her medicated with ADHD meds, because with our strong bipolar history, stimulants send you into mania faster than anything. My older daughter has a friend that was dxed ADHD at 6 and then bipolar at 10 when she went into a huge psychotic mania that was triggered by the adderall. The ADHD meds had never worked so they were always jacking up the dose until she was psychotic. Her mom has bipolar d/o as well so she has a family history. I have read that there is a loose genetic connection between bipolar d/o and epilepsy--that a manic episode is similar to a seizure, but in slow motion, what with the increased brain activity and all. Some of these > teachers see these kids more hours per day than some parents see them. Are you > going to talk to any of the teachers she had this past year that she had a > medical problem? I think they were somewhat understanding, because she is a really good student, but it was only the last couple weeks of school. If they had started earlier in the year and if the episodes had had a more gradual onset so that we did not go to the doctor as quickly, they may have had more time to get suspicious. She has this completely effervescent personality and is often "teachers pet" so she didn't get too much flak for it. But going into 7th grade, it may be harder to develop relationships with the teachers as well. cogge > > Does this mean both frontal AND temporal lobes are involved? ** (G.-> I put some comments at bottom) > This is verbatim of the EEG report: > "IMPRESSION: This is an [EEG] that shows some unusual slowing and sharp > wave activity over the left frontal temporal area. This would be consistant ***************************** > with a seizure disorder" > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > It is such a relief you were able to get help for your daughter so quickly; it's just going to save > > a lot of problems for your daughter. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > still in a state of unsureity. > cogge G -> You should ask the Dr. if they'll give you a 'note' to take to the School, to get them an extension or chance for retesting, e.g. at end of summer once whatever medications they might decide to use have had a chance to stabilize. They might also allow them extra time or help while they get a stable medication that works. It can't help them at the school if they're having seizures during classes anyway, so allowing extra time for tests or help after class can only help Both the class and the Student to keep in Synch. without having to repeat work that could be done with a little help and adjustment by the school. The Doctor should also be able to give you a Name for the type of seizure and where it appears to start (the seizure focus). Usually a Temporal Lobe seizure (if it's starting there, from your note above) in the Left side Temporal Lobe (I put **s above) has a particular set of **symptoms and **medications that would work for it. ( I would guess the Dr. meant the Front of the Left Temporal Lobe, but that's just a guess. The temporal lobes are above the mouth directly behind the Left and Right cheeks. They also affect New Learning and Memory so any problems or damage there is going to affect learning new things at school. Once the seizures are controlled, that *might help with school and learning too. ) Some older websites, if you do a search, might list information under Temporal Lobe Seizures or Epilepsy. Newer sites (last 20 years) often group it under Complex Partial seizures. *If you have a Local Chapter of an Epilepsy Association (in Germany?) you could phone them and see if they also have a Local Chapter Ep. **Website, that you could find information that is on file there too. (Some locations also have groups and courses for Families of people newly diagnosed that might be some help to you.) The U.S. Ep. Foundation might have information under either Temporal Lobe Epilepsy or Complex Partial Seizures. Simple Partial seizures can also start there too (the T.Lobes), but don't result in loss of consciousness, although the person can have Absences (lose awareness), or 'drift off' and lose concentration' that can affect school and learning too. Usually the Complex Partial or Grand mal type seizures the patient will lose consciousness if the seizures aren't controlled by medications or other treatments The U.S. Information site is at http://efa.org . /G. > > > Does this mean both frontal AND temporal lobes are involved? ** (G.-> > I put some comments at bottom) [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Synch. without having to repeat work that could be done with a little help > and adjustment by the school. You brought up some excellent points GR. She might not be quite stablized by the time school resumes, which is something that I didn't even think about. > The Doctor should also be able to give you a Name for the type of seizure > and where it appears to start (the seizure focus). Usually a Temporal [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Once the seizures are controlled, that *might help with school and learning > too. ) I'm glad someone else had questions about "the left frontal temporal area" because I can't figure out which lobe they are talking about. Barb > Some older websites, if you do a search, might list information under > Temporal Lobe Seizures or Epilepsy. Newer sites (last 20 years) often group [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Complex Partial or Grand mal type seizures the patient will lose > consciousness > if the seizures aren't controlled by medications or other > treatments The U.S. Information site is at http://efa.org . /G. > She has not seen the doctor yet--tomorrow she will. I had the hospital fax > me the EEG report. I talked to the neuro's office who read the EEG and he [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > cogge Your daughter's situation sounds very similar to my own about 25 years ago, when I was her age. I had, and still have 5 to 15 C.P's each day, preceded by a S.P. I was very healthy, top of all my classes (Qualified to join Mensa) but very hard to motivate. Periodically saw white spots and/or had double vision. I found that exercise triggered my seizures (right frontal temporal lobe complex partials and simple partials) also found - and still find - that not eating enough or regularly enough is a trigger. Never had a problem with math though. Don't know what could be doing it there. But the low blood sugar is a definite trigger for me. (And I'm not diabetic). You may want to be careful of fever too, as I find it to be devastating. A case of the mumps almost took my life when I was eight. Caused me to have grand mals every 20 minutes for quite some time. But on a brighter note, it's just stopped raining outside!! Cheers, Darryl. > Actually she is 12 and she has them about 5 times a week and > sometimes 3 or 4 times a day, so the hormonal thing would be a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > cogge The peak of JME is between 10 and 12 and the range is between 7 and 16 years old. It is the intense thinking thing that I am discussing now. The eating problem resulting in seizure disorder may be something completely different causing the same symptoms which is still not very nice for your daughter of course. The bloodstreams should be analyzed at different times per day and the EEG may give you some more information of a neurological disorder. Maybe in your case, a standard EEG is not really helpfull as your child has to do some maths (needs to be triggered). I am sure you will discuss that with the doctor on Friday. SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > off? She seems to get alot of probs with it during sports and PE at school--is > exertion a normal trigger? Blood sugars can fluctuate pretty drastically and pretty fast. A lot of things, including the things you mentioned can influence blood sugar levels. Yeah, apparently both diabetes and hypoglycemia symptoms can be confused with epilepsy symptoms. I was diagnosed with epilepsy (temporal lobe) about 14 years ago, and one of the first things they did was send me to endocrinology to rule out diabetes and similiar problems (didn't have diabetes back then).. This past year I've been on a glucose meter (one doctor says I have diabetes, another says borderline). Anyway, you're supposed to test your blood at various points of the day and after things like exercise, when you're sick, and so on because your blood sugar levels can fluctate throughout the day. Some people have a lot of problems too if they go for long times without eating, so they may want smaller but more frequent food intake (applies to both diabetes and hypoglycemia). For some people a fasting blood sugar test may not be enough and they should monitor their blood sugars under a variety of circumstances. You do not necessarily have to have intense symptoms with diabetes (I really don't have any noticable symptoms). But it doesn't matter because internal damage can be going on even if you dont' have obvious symptoms. > Math was the third trigger, and I > have no clue as to why she would keep having probs in math! This is kind of > a new thing. This started just a couple months ago, and she just got her > EEG results last week and has her first neurologist appt. friday. Any > suggestions you may have would be helpful. You know, you can never tell with epilepsy what things will kick a seizure off (including photosensitivity). The thing is you always have to look at other factors at the same time. For example, are the flourescent tubes in that room going bad. Is there something on the walls that could annoy the brain (don't forget the floor and ceiling). What was going on before math? Maybe it was something she was exposed to BEFORE math that irritated her brain enough to force a seizure during math. You didn't give a lot of information so I'm kind of doing some guessing here. There seems to be a lot of memory problems especially very close to the time the seizure happened. Medication might help or might not. The three things that helped me with memory were epilepsy meds, antidepressants, and taking a memory intensive class that used tools that used different ways to learn (audio, visual, etc). In that particular class they gave us flash cards, audio tapes, a CD with games and self-testing quizzes, the workbook which included lots of pictures, and we had lectures). I've also been tested for memory problems and some input methods are more likely to be remembered than others (example: visual things can be recalled more succesfully than audio). The memory/recall thing is really strange. Maybe you will remember something tomorrow or next week, but it might be completely gone in three weeks. Sometimes, to me, it's like the event never happened, so how can I be expected to recall it. This memory stuff is really goofy and unpredictable. I don't think the medical staff in neurology or the epilepsy centers (at least in my experience) are very good in offering workable tips on overcoming memory problems. For example, they will say take lots of notes. Well, note taking doesn't help if you can't find your notes, if you don't know what the notes mean, and so on. As far as myself, I have had to become very habitual or have to do things myself such as putting the groceries away. I also need a lot of cues (particularly visual) to force recall. I guess that's enough rambling for one day. Barb > cogge Marco wrote: > Some people may have issues with carbohydrates and sugars and fail to > produce sugars efficient, due to insuffiency or lack of insulin. The > result is high blood sugar (hyperglycemia). The body tries to use Typo: > Some people may have issues with carbohydrates and sugars and fail to > produce ENERGY efficient, due to insuffiency or lack of insulin. The SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco >Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >off? She seems to get alot of probs with it during sports and PE at >school--is exertion a normal trigger? Exertion was my major and almost only trigger and I never found out why. I was a marathon runner and then suddenly BANG, my running turned into a trigger changing my fairly benign simple seizures into complex partials. I tried eating glucose whilst running, water, cutting down on the coffee, running on grass to avoid impact... all to no avail. After 2 years of going gag-ga every evening during training, I had to admit defeat, and gave up running :( I previously had no triggers, but very very low blood pressure and whilst running I couldn't even say my 2 x table, so maybe my blood was being diverted to the muscles rather than brain? SignatureMalcolm Hi Cogge, I have had E since birth and after being raised on toxic worthless meds for 27yrs, I wanted answers and found them in having many food and chemical allergies, along w/being hypoglycemic, which also caused szs for me, So when I wouldnt eat, my sugars would drop and I seized, or I would eat and would seize from the food itself having an allergic reaction from them. Most dont look for answers-triggers as I and some others have. I also have other info on daily neurotoxins proven to cause szs from perfumes, to daily formeldahyde poisoning, to the lacking of Nutrients If you want them give me your email address and I'll send you all of them. Heres 1 of them at http://www.edelsoncenter.com/Diseases_Treatment/epilepsy.htm Happy 4th of July Kathy |
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