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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / June 2004Offensive?
Hi, I am a UK nurse, currently undertaking a teaching qualification. I was suprised to learn recently that the term, "Brain storming" (ie people working together to form solutions to problems) is offensive to epileptics. I just wondered whether anyone else has experience of this topic? To me it sounds like political correctness gone mad, just like the example of the "black-board" that is now a "chalk-board" and the white board that has become a "dry-marker board". I would be interested to learn others opinions on this subject. Many Thanks, Dave. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I would be interested to learn others opinions on this subject. I've been in the telecommunications field for decades. About 25 years ago, the 'main' modem in a multipoint environment was called the 'master,, and the distant modems called 'slaves'. That was changed to master and 'remote', and now master is under heavy fire. It's particularly difficult to come up with politically correct hierarchical names. C. > I've been in the telecommunications field for decades. About 25 years ago, > the 'main' modem in a multipoint environment was called the 'master,, and > the distant modems called 'slaves'. That was changed to master and > 'remote', and now master is under heavy fire. ... then there were the male and female plumbing components, to say nothing of grease nipples and ... oh heck. > It's particularly difficult to come up with politically correct hierarchical > names. It's not just difficult, it's stupid and it impoverishes the language. Mary > C. > ... then there were the male and female plumbing components, to say nothing > of grease nipples and ... oh heck. Your point is topical Mary. I was involved at few weeks ago in another doomed attempt to improve my 'home theatre system, and ran into a problem with coaxial cable which necessitated a trip to the local Radio Shack. I explained my problem to the young chap at the counter, ending with the phrase "who can best connect a female to a female?" Without hesitation he locked eyes with me and said... The Anglican Church. :) C. > Hi, > I am a UK nurse, currently undertaking a teaching qualification. I was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Many Thanks, > Dave. Another Dave !! :-o Maybe our 'older' (mature?) Dave can remember further back than I can. Since 1998, I've never seen anyone complain *here about that term as being offensive. Sounds like you've tripped by 'the Very Silly Party's Site'... :-< I wouldn't think People with Epilepsy would own the Patent on 'Brain Storming' , since we're not the Only type of Reaction in the Brain (Chemical or Electrical) in the Dictionary that could be thought to produce 'storms'. And Besides there are Shades of Positive and Negative when it comes to a reference like 'storms'. (We just had a long thread last week about who liked to go out in the Midst of a Rain Storm, or felt more comfortable then. Surely They weren't all ( ~10 of them) also be Politically Incorrect? If they were they'd probably decide that That must be meant as a Compliment !! ) I think it was Churchill who was supposed to have been Chastened for ending a sentence with a Preposition. And he said "That's the sort of literary pedantry up with which I will not Put ! ") G./ Political correctness gone mad, in my opinion. It never even occurred to me that the term could be offensive to me or anyone else. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave. G'day dave, it's hard to believe how ridiculous people are getting when it comes to what is, and what isn't offensive. it seems that some people are making a contest out of what or how many things they can find offensive. there barely seems to be anything that you can say nowadays which isn't sexist or racist, or offends someone's sensibilities for a truly ludicrous reason. the thing that really gets up my nose is when you see adverts in the paper particularly for jobs which nominate a certain group of people but when you mention that it's discriminatory they say "that's okay, reverse discrimination is alright". pablo > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave. 8>< snip > the thing that really gets up my nose is when you see adverts in the paper > particularly for jobs which nominate a certain group of people but when you > mention that it's discriminatory they say "that's okay, reverse > discrimination is alright". That's something that infuriates me as well. Discrimination is discrimination, whatever colour you like to paint it. This ridiculous political correctness culture we seem to have acquired infuruates me too. "Brain storming" is only the latest "buzz" word for people getting their thinking caps on!! > 8>< snip > > the thing that really gets up my nose is when you see adverts in the paper [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This ridiculous political correctness culture we seem to have acquired > infuruates me too. Howdy! Even when it serves your purpose? Is reverse discrimination bad when it helps you to get a job with a government contractor due to the fact that you have epilepsy?  SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:45:55 GMT, Dave ©¿©¬ wrote: > Howdy! > > Even when it serves your purpose? > > Is reverse discrimination bad when it helps you to get a job with a > government contractor due to the fact that you have epilepsy? Hiya :)) My view is that *everyone* should be considered for, say, a job, purely on the basis of their ability to do the job in question. Their suitability for a position should *never* be based on the colour of their skin, their religion, their politics, their medical history, or the club they belong to. I don't imagine that someone who is liable to have a fit/seizure because they can't stand heights, is going to apply for a job on a construction site building a tower block; nor if flashing lights trigger fits/seizures would they apply for a job in a nightclub with strobe lights :)) The only possible question mark would be over the ability of someone to work, for instance, in a wages office if they had a conviction for theft <G> But that in itself is discrimination. :)) Discriminating in favour of one person/group automatically discriminates *against* another person/group. The government contractor, IMO, shouldn't have even considered your medical history, only whether you were the best man for the job. That *should* apply to *all* employers. > > Howdy! > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > history, only whether you were the best man for the job. That *should* > apply to *all* employers. Howdy! When to people with equal qualifications are under consideration for one job the government contractor is BOUND, UNDER THE LAW, to give the person with a disability the right of first refusal. > > > Howdy! > > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > the government contractor is BOUND, UNDER THE LAW, to give the person with a > disability the right of first refusal. THAT is reverse discrimination. Why should the person with a disability have the first right? I agree that they shouldn't be refused the job based on their disability (unless that disability makes them unable to perform their duties). But the person without a disability shouldn't be overlooked simply because he/she is more healthy. That's like here in New Zealand, the government will employ a Maori (NZ native) person rather than a NZ European, even if the Maori person has fewer qualifications, less experience etc, simply because the government has a policy of employing a certain percentage of Maori people. Is that stupid or what? Darryl > > > > Howdy! > > > > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > policy of employing a certain percentage of Maori people. Is that stupid or > what? It's stupid. Mary > Darryl > > > > Howdy! > > > > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Darryl Howdy Darryl! That's not what I said, now, is it? Given that 2 people have the same qualifications and work experience, the job will be offered to the person with the disability. If 2 people have ALMOST the same qualifications, the person who is BEST qualified should (in theory) be offered the job. SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > > > > > Howdy! > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > Dave ???? > http://www.howdydave.com My apologies Dave, I was unclear in what I wrote. What I meant was that that kind of reverse discrimination is "ridiculous, just like" our situation here in NZ. Wasn't comparing apples with apples, merely noting how stupid some laws are. Darryl. > > > > > > Howdy! > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Darryl. Howdy Darryl! The key words in my post are: IN THEORY! That's only the way it's supposed to work. Dave > > > > > When two people with equal qualifications are under consideration for > > one > > > > job [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Dave Hi Dave, What I'm saying is that it's a damned stupid rule. It SHOULDN'T work like that. That is giving someone an unfair advantage in an employment situation, simply because they have epilepsy or whatever other disability. Two candidates may have the same qualifications / experience - but there are other factors upon which an employment decision can be made, such as personality, self assurance, assertiveness, kiss-a.s-ability, and the toss of a coin. A person's state of health should not enter into it unless that is something which will affect their ability to perform the job (which is another issue, re: the need to disclose one's health problems / disabilities). Darryl. > > > > > > When two people with equal qualifications are under consideration > for [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > which will affect their ability to perform the job (which is another issue, > re: the need to disclose one's health problems / disabilities). I agree. But if it's only the theory ... Mary > Darryl. Oh well.... sigh.... Welcome to the real world! SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com g'day dave, i've never really looked epilepsy as a disability, and currently i work as an electrician for a government owned corporation. pablo > > 8>< snip > > > the thing that really gets up my nose is when you see adverts in the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Is reverse discrimination bad when it helps you to get a job with a > government contractor due to the fact that you have epilepsy? I work fulltime also. My brother runs a busy truckstop, and his seizures are much worse than mine. I also know someone who devoted much time and energy into getting disability for his epilepsy. He's pleased as punch. Feels no need to contribute to society whatsoever. I think giving up on life just because you have epilepsy is bizarre and sad. If someone like my brother can do what he does with life, then anyone can. > I work fulltime also. My brother runs a busy truckstop, and his seizures are > much worse than mine. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If someone like my brother can do what he does with life, then anyone can. G. How do you know the Other Fellow 'Gave up on Life' ?? Maybe he had Insurance that pays based on particular conditions that might apply. Some of what I get was based on my original Encephalitis Damage that was identified as 'Organic Brain Syndrome' .... Calling it Brain Damage or Epilepsy wouldn't get me any help from my (Group) Insurer. It had to be identified as Severe and Prolonged, and not likely to Improve (change). That was in 1981. Except for small amounts of memory parts, it Hasn't improved. (I mentioned elsewhere the Memory tests of getting a series of Numbers and being asked to Repeat them Verbally in Reverse order -- those I get 2 of the 5. Not much Use to be and remain up to date as a Computer Consultant. (When computers like I use here, once filled a Large room the size of a School Gymnasium.) And you can't always tell 'from outside' what is happening Inside that Fellow (Psychologically or Emotionally -- Separate from Neurologically or Physically) that YOU see from the OUTSIDE as being "Pleased as Punch". That MIGHT be a Front. It might NOT, but some of us are Incredible Actors. G./ Because it's my ex-husband, and he's very happily given up on everything. It's his specialty. > Because it's my ex-husband, and he's very happily given up on everything. > It's his specialty. An 'Arms length' relationship. Must apply to all of us then I guess? G./ I'm lost. What must apply to all of us? > Because it's my ex-husband, and he's very happily given up on everything. > It's his specialty. :-) Mary Howdy Dave! (Gee... that has a familier ring to it!) I use the term "brainstorming" all of the time and I am a strong advocate of the method! SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave. > Howdy Dave! > > (Gee... that has a familier ring to it!) Er, are you allowed to use that word? Mary Hi Dave, welcome to our ng. I've had epilepsy for over 30 years and I have never thought of the term "brain storming" as being offensive. I think of it as you said, people getting together popping out ideas to come up with a solution. I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems acceptable whereas many here in the US don't like that term, but prefer the word seizure. We have also discussed that some prefer to say we have epilepsy not "we ARE "epileptics". Believe me, if "brain storming" was a problem - we would have discussed it. As far as I'm concerned you and your classmates may want to brain storm about how to set the instructor straight when it comes to those of us coping with epilepsy. ;-) Thanks for asking our opinion. Take care, Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho http://www.epilepsyidaho.org > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave. > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have > discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems acceptable > whereas many here in the US don't like that term, but prefer the word > seizure. We have also discussed that some prefer to say we have > epilepsy not "we ARE "epileptics". Believe me, if "brain storming" > was a problem - we would have discussed it. Hello, I previously used the word "fit" because that is what I have been told by one of my colleagues here in the Netherlands where we primarily speak Dutch. That triggered the discussion in this ng and as I do not care to either use "fit" or "seizure", I simply changed the word to "seizure" in this ng. But can anyone tell me exactly what the difference is and why UK folks like to use the word "fit" and why the US folks like to use the word "seizure"? I know the UK folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road, but I cannot tell my UK colleague that because she will hit me very hard for that :-) I know there are some Australian guys in this ng as well, but I still think that they drive... :-) SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco >But can anyone tell me exactly what the difference is and why UK folks like >to use the word "fit" and why the US folks like to use the word "seizure"? I suspect it is because the term 'having a fit' is also loosely used in the language to mean losing one's temper, going out of control, a lack of rational self-discipline etc. and has a slightly derogatory implication eg "Don't let Fred see you doing that - he'd have a fit!" as though Fred had an undesirable inflexibility. > I >know the UK folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road, but I cannot tell >my UK colleague that because she will hit me very hard for that :-) Practically speaking, how do you suggest we change now? Medication won't cure driving on the wrong side of the road. Mass compulsory hypnotherapy might do it, but just turning all the signs round by 180 degrees, repainting directions and telling people that Wednesday is *The Changing Date for Driving* would cause havoc. More havoc than usual, anyway. But why the need for standardisation? If every country were identical, same driving, same currency, same laws, same weather, same social behaviour etc, wouldn't the world be a boring place? Let's keep some individuality. And my driving on the wrong side of the road isn't a problem for *me*, it's just a problem for you ;) The same as when I tell people I'm epileptic. SignatureMalcolm (54 hours medfree ...and how long until I can say I'm not epileptic anymore?) >> But can anyone tell me exactly what the difference is and why UK >> folks like to use the word "fit" and why the US folks like to use [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > implication eg "Don't let Fred see you doing that - he'd have a fit!" > as though Fred had an undesirable inflexibility. Aha, okay I understand that now. >> know the UK folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road, but I >> cannot tell my UK colleague that because she will hit me very hard [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > problem for *me*, it's just a problem for you ;) The same as when I > tell people I'm epileptic. Yep, that is certainly true that the world would be a boring place. SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > >But can anyone tell me exactly what the difference is and why UK folks like > >to use the word "fit" and why the US folks like to use the word "seizure"? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > problem for *me*, it's just a problem for you ;) The same as when I > tell people I'm epileptic. HURRAH!!!!! (to everything in that para and the one before) I suspect never. I haven't had a big fit for more than eleven years and don't take medication for it but I know that I'm not cured. Mary hi marco, do you prefer the term "aanval" or "beroerte"? i think the whole thing works similar in english. some words you like, some you don't. i hate the word "aanval". Raist > hi marco, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Raist Okay, I understand. Thanks. SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > hi marco, > > do you prefer the term "aanval" or "beroerte"? i think the whole thing > works similar in english. some words you like, some you don't. i hate the > word "aanval". Go on, then, tell us what they mean. Mary > Raist they mean "seizure" and "fit", or the other way around. (don't hit me, if i'm wrong, marco! ;-) ) i just tried to tansport the problem from english language into dutch. political correctness is a funny thing. what seems perfectly alright in one language, may appear offensive in the other. in german there is only one term for the pair seizure/fit: "Anfall". you don't have the choice between a political correct or incorrect word, you don't even have the choice to decide which one is which. in this case the only existing term raises a negative association, no matter how you put it. am right, that many english speaking people prefer "seizure disorder" to "epilepsy"? we have something similiar in german: "Anfallsleiden" and "Epilepsie". "Anfallsleiden" is used in the same context as "seizure disorder": a political correct term do avoid labeling this disorder. enjoy the linguistic meaning: there is the rather negative word for seizure added to a word that means "suffering", not disorder. mere linguistic psychology labels the person with the seizure disorder (yes, that's polical correctness! ;-) ) negatively ALTHOUGH the term should ensure politibal correctness. that's why i prefer the term epilepsy. you see, there defnitely *are* factors of personal like or dislike, when we use a word ;-). in general i think the offensiveness of a term doesn't lie in the word, but in the context it is used. hm - i think i just revealed my liking for playing with language(s), but everybody needs a playground :-) Raist ps: i've just noticed that if you, again, take it litereally, in german epilepsy is not a "disorder" but a "disease". it's not incorrect at all to use this word. but - here we go, again we we have some negative linguistic psychologie > they mean "seizure" and "fit", or the other way around. (don't hit me, if > i'm wrong, marco! ;-) ) > i just tried to tansport the problem from english language into dutch. Ah, right. Thanks. It's interesting that another language uses the word, "fit" - I assume it's the same word for other meanings? > political correctness is a funny thing. what seems perfectly alright in > one language, may appear offensive in the other. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > am right, that many english speaking people prefer "seizure disorder" to > "epilepsy"? I've never heard that. > we have something similiar in german: "Anfallsleiden" and "Epilepsie". > "Anfallsleiden" is used in the same context as "seizure disorder": a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > use this word. but - here we go, again we we have some negative linguistic > psychologie I prefer to call it a condition. Mary > Ah, right. Thanks. It's interesting that another language uses the > word, "fit" - I assume it's the same word for other meanings? Beroerte is something completely different in Dutch :-) Most likely, we use the word beroerte when a blood stopper (stopper?)(thrombosis in the brains causes one to pass out). SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > > Ah, right. Thanks. It's interesting that another language uses the > > word, "fit" - I assume it's the same word for other meanings? > > Beroerte is something completely different in Dutch :-) Most likely, we use > the word beroerte when a blood stopper (stopper?)(thrombosis in the brains > causes one to pass out). Hmm. Not the same t all. We'd say 'stroke' but that has other meanings too. I was wondering if your word 'beroerte' has another maneaing apart from the medical one? Mary > Hmm. Not the same t all. We'd say 'stroke' but that has other > meanings too. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mary When one says: "I am feeling "beroerd", then he means that he is not feeling very well. I guess that is slang Dutch. When we say: he had a "beroerte gehad", then he means that that person had a stroke. This is one of those things you won't learn in any grammar / language learning book -it depends on cultural things. The language itself is also changing, it is adding/removing words from French/English. SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > they mean "seizure" and "fit", or the other way around. (don't hit > me, if i'm wrong, marco! ;-) ) > i just tried to tansport the problem from english language into dutch. Hehehe...after trying to learn the Eastern languages, Dutch is also very, very difficult to learn -no, I won't hit you Raistlin :-) SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > > they mean "seizure" and "fit", or the other way around. (don't hit > > me, if i'm wrong, marco! ;-) ) > > i just tried to tansport the problem from english language into dutch. > > Hehehe...after trying to learn the Eastern languages, Dutch is also very, > very difficult to learn -no, I won't hit you Raistlin :-) I bet your English is better than my dutch. Or better than my any-other-language ... :-( But at least my English is better than most English people's :-) Mary > I bet your English is better than my dutch. Or better than my > any-other-language ... :-( > > But at least my English is better than most English people's :-) I bet you are :-) Most of the times I have difficulties translating the "slang" English to Dutch. I am however not even talking about the English medical terms because we have Dutch synonyms for them as well :-( SignatureTake care. Bye, Marco > > > they mean "seizure" and "fit", or the other way around. (don't hit > > > me, if i'm wrong, marco! ;-) ) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mary I BEG YOUR PARDON???? I ain't never made but one gramatical error in my life and I seen it when I done it and I taken it back! SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > > But at least my English is better than most English people's :-) > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I ain't never made but one gramatical error in my life and I seen it when I > done it and I taken it back! Yes, Dwahling, but you're not English ... Mary > > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have > > discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems acceptable [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > But can anyone tell me exactly what the difference is and why UK folks like > to use the word "fit" and why the US folks like to use the word "seizure"? I don't think it's a matter of liking, it's just that we haven't been brainwashed into not using it. Yet. It's coming ... If the cap fits ... oops! And oops again ... I > know the UK folks drive on the "wrong" side of the road, but I cannot tell > my UK colleague that because she will hit me very hard for that :-) I know > there are some Australian guys in this ng as well, but I still think that > they drive... :-) Some UK people drive on the wrong side of the road but if they're involved in an accident because of doing it they'll be in trouble. Mary > > > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have > > > discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems acceptable [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Bye, > > Marco In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy so I don't drive, I just passenge. (Is passenge a word? If so...is it PC?) So...How many countries are represented in this group who drive on the right and how many countries who drive on the left?? Let's *Brainstorm* and see what we can come up with. So: New Zealand, Left hand side. Australia, Left hand side. UK, Left hand side. USA, Right hand side. (In Miles per hour...pfffft ;-) Any others? Darryl. > > > > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have > > > > discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems acceptable [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy so > I don't drive, I just passenge. (Is passenge a word? If so...is it PC?) It should be a word. I'm going to try to remember and use it :-) > So...How many countries are represented in this group who drive on the right > and how many countries who drive on the left?? > Let's *Brainstorm* and see what we can come up with. Usually (in my understanding) a brainstorm produces something good, so we shouldn't object at all ... > So: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > USA, Right hand side. (In Miles per hour...pfffft ;-) er - we drive in miles per hour too, but we buy our petrol in litres. If we bought it in gallons as we used to do we'd probably have a fit when we saw the unit price ... Mary > Any others? > > Darryl. > > > > > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have > > > > > discussed the term "fit" and how in the UK that term seems [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > bought it in gallons as we used to do we'd probably have a fit when we saw > the unit price ... Is that a metric fit or an imperial fit? Or just a physical reaction to a brainstorm. LOL Darryl. :-) > Mary > > > > Any others? > > > > Darryl. > > er - we drive in miles per hour too, but we buy our petrol in litres. If > we [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > brainstorm. LOL > Darryl. :-) I'm glad you read my intention :-) Mary > > Mary > > > > > > Any others? > > > > > > Darryl. > In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the > oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy so [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Darryl. Canada: Right hand side, km/h, gas in litres. > > In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the > > oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > Canada: Right hand side, km/h, gas in litres. :-) Sounds like Canada is up with the rest of the "Civilized" world in going metric at least. LOL Darryl. > > > In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where > the [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > :-) Sounds like Canada is up with the rest of the "Civilized" world in > going metric at least. LOL Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. Mary > Darryl. >Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. > >Mary So the fact that we work to base 10 and that we have 10 digits on our hands is pure coincidence then? (Does the three-toed sloth count to base 6?) SignatureMalcolm > >Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. > > > >Mary > > So the fact that we work to base 10 and that we have 10 digits on our > hands is pure coincidence then? I'm surprised at you Malcolm! You're confusing metric with decimal ... Mary > (Does the three-toed sloth count to base 6?) >> >Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Mary Runs to dictionary... "Metric system - a standard system of measurement, based on decimal units, in which each successive multiple of a unit is 10 times larger than the one preceding it. Metric units have a prefix that denotes what multiples or fractions of the base unit they represent, eg. kilo- (k) denotes 10^3." I rest my case (but feel the Chambers Dictionary should at least get its grammar correct and use "which denotes" rather than "that denotes"). SignatureMalcolm > X-No-Archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I rest my case (but feel the Chambers Dictionary should at least get its > grammar correct and use "which denotes" rather than "that denotes"). Indeed. It's lost all credibility by that solecism :-) While the metric system uses decimal units it was based on some odd measurement - a part of a measurement of Earth I believe. I can't remember the details but it was something we can't imagine. We can imagine an inch (roughly a thumb joint), a foot (obvious) a hand (ditto), a yard (a stride) etc. We have no human relevance to a millimetre or ineed any other metric measurement. It's interesting though that, when devising a universal measurement to be used as the base of the metric system, the span of a honeybee worker cell was one of the considerations because it doesn't vary. That would have been a more easily visualised measurement. As for decimal, yes, it works and is easy, if you can't be bothered thinking. A duo-decimal system also works in the same way (if you count, say, one two three four five six seven eight nine ping pong ten. In that system 10 would be the same as our current 12 for all mathematical purposes but we'd still be able to have sensible fractions, to divide 10 by not only 2 but by 3, 4 and 6. I'd like to see that system, it would give the best of all worlds and do away with very many silly numbers such as 3.3 recurring when one wanted to express a third. Mary >As for decimal, yes, it works and is easy, if you can't be bothered >thinking. A duo-decimal system also works in the same way (if you count, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Mary If we had base 6 we could use our fingers to count up to 35 (base 10 equivalent) easily. Or if we use binary, we can manage 1023 (base 10 equivalent) just using our fingers. Wow, the things I will do to avoid getting down to writing reports! My f****** printer doesn't print ___quite____ straight, so it won't match up perfectly with the forms (out by about half a millimetre of slope across a page, which visually screams at me), so I'm going to have to write two hundred b***** reports by hand. That way, nobody will be able to read them. Converting my binary finger symbol (110) into your hex system, I think that translates as PONG0 to reports! :((( "GET ON WITH IT MALCOLM!!!" Yes, Sir. SignatureMalcolm > >As for decimal, yes, it works and is easy, if you can't be bothered > >thinking. A duo-decimal system also works in the same way (if you count, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Wow, the things I will do to avoid getting down to writing reports! I know. I used to write magazine articles and I'd do anything to put off the deadline - do the washing up, sew on buttons, walk the dog ... ... we don't have a dog, I'd have to find someone else's ... > My f****** printer doesn't print ___quite____ straight, so it won't > match up perfectly with the forms (out by about half a millimetre of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "GET ON WITH IT MALCOLM!!!" Yes, get on with it, you know it makes sense ... <sigh> Mary > Yes, Sir. > > X-No-Archive: yes > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > (ditto), a yard (a stride) etc. We have no human relevance to a millimetre > or ineed any other metric measurement. *snip* > Mary Of course we do. Let me put it into builder's terms. For example; A 100mm nail = a four inch nail, a 75mm nail = a 3 inch nail, a 50mm nail = a 2 inch nail. I do believe that's where the measurements came from - so that makers of construction supplies would not have to change the machinery which makes these things ;-) Darryl. > > > X-No-Archive: yes > > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > these things ;-) > Darryl. That's adapting a metric system to an imperial one. It's jolly lucky that 100mm = 4" so that you can have a 100mm/4" module. Since you've raised building, don't yu think it's utterly mad to have plans, building or model plane, expressed in millimetres? Chains were fine. Yards were OK, feet acceptable with inches for fine stuff. But MILLIMETRES???? Mary > > > > >> >Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. > > > > >> >Mary > > > > >> So the fact that we work to base 10 and that we have 10 digits on our > > > > >> hands is pure coincidence then? > > > > > > > > > >I'm surprised at you Malcolm! You're confusing metric with decimal **** G** Ummm. Metric IS decimal. That's why the Math becomes so much Easier 'over there' than in Cubics and Feet and yards. / > > > > >Mary > > > > > > > > Runs to dictionary... > > > > "Metric system - a standard system of measurement, based on decimal > > > > units, in which each successive multiple of a unit is 10 times larger > > > > than the one preceding it. Metric units have a prefix that denotes what > > > > multiples or fractions of the base unit they represent, eg. kilo- (k) > > > > denotes 10^3." > > > > > > > > I rest my case (but feel the Chambers Dictionary should at least get its > > > > grammar correct and use "which denotes" rather than "that denotes"). > > > > > > Indeed. It's lost all credibility by that solecism :-) > > > > > > While the metric system uses decimal units it was based on some odd > > > measurement - a part of a measurement of Earth I believe. I can't remember > > > the details but it was something we can't imagine. > > > > > > We can imagine an inch (roughly a thumb joint), a foot (obvious) a hand > > > (ditto), a yard (a stride) etc. We have no human relevance to a millimetre > > > or ineed any other metric measurement. > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > That's adapting a metric system to an imperial one. It's jolly lucky that > 100mm = 4" so that you can have a 100mm/4" module. *** G** I didn't know above, as I've converted to Metric, so I don't have to keep Recalculating 4 inches, out of a 43 inch length board, is 10.75x 100mm = 1075mm = 1.075 Meters each time I encounter something like that. Either I express it in a form that the user I'm communicating with can understand OR a Standard that's accepted in a particular Profession. ("Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I'm your Pilot tonight, we'll be Flying at an Altitude of 4.78 Meters or whatever the H** gets me over that Tower down there, then we'll rise to 87 meters for the rest of our trip to Spain. Hope we don't leave the Atmosphere!!! " ..... ) Above is like learning French or Italian, and First saying "Can you Tell me the time", then "Avez vous l'heure?" instead of just the Second one if you were speaking to someone in French. You Don't have to write the Olde (Expired) unit, and then the New one when you are fully 'converted'.... You just Operate in the New one !! Only. > Since you've raised building, don't yu think it's utterly mad to have plans, > building or model plane, expressed in millimetres? Chains were fine. Yards > were OK, feet acceptable with inches for fine stuff. But MILLIMETRES???? > Mary G. Malcolm just complained on an Earlier post on this thread that his PRINTER was off by 1 mm when he's doing Diagrams. What's that work out to in Inches ?? (And if he had so much **trouble with METRIC like he said, why'd he say the Print Line was misaligned by a **Millimetre on that post? Was that a TRICK?? :-o ) / > > > > > >> >Oh no! Metric isn't a human-based system. > > > > > >> >Mary [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > Tower down there, then we'll rise to 87 meters for the rest of our trip to > Spain. Hope we don't leave the Atmosphere!!! " ..... ) Why 'meters' rather than 'metres', if it's a 'metric' system? We don't write it as 'meteric'. > Above is like learning French or Italian, and First saying "Can you > Tell me the time", then "Avez vous l'heure?" instead of just the Second one > if you were speaking to someone in French. You Don't have to write the Olde > (Expired) unit, and then the New one when you are fully 'converted'.... You > just Operate in the New one !! Only. Or the old one. I understood - but could be wrong (it has been known) - that the universal aviation language is English. Whether that's British English, Shakespeare's English, Chaucer's English or another of the other numerous manifestations I don't know. Malcolm might but he's busy. > > Since you've raised building, don't yu think it's utterly mad to have > plans, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > why'd he say the Print Line was misaligned by a **Millimetre on that post? > Was that a TRICK?? :-o ) / It was Malcolm. We used to work in thous of an inch, which were far more precise than millimetres ... I was suggesting that millimetres were less suitable for architecture and building. Mary >G. Malcolm just complained on an Earlier post on this thread that his >PRINTER was off by 1 mm when he's doing Diagrams. What's that work out to >in Inches ?? (And if he had so much **trouble with METRIC like he said, >why'd he say the Print Line was misaligned by a **Millimetre on that post? >Was that a TRICK?? :-o ) / *I* have no trouble with metric - I teach it every day. It's the pseudo- metric packaging which annoys me (454 g) which sells imperial quantities by metric weight. And selling milk by the pint but petrol by the litre (so you don't notice how much it's gone up since gallons were supposed to have disappeared. Whoever asks about your car "How many miles does it do to the litre?"). The metric units I don't like are: 1) Tesla, which seems such a crazy size base unit (1 weber/m^2) that I wonder why they didn't invent a sub-unit for everyday use (like they did for microns) 2) degrees Celsius - why can't we all convert to Kelvin and have done with it? SignatureMalcolm > *I* have no trouble with metric - I teach it every day. I don't either, I've used it for fifty odd years. But I still prefer imperial ;-) Mary It's the pseudo- > metric packaging which annoys me (454 g) which sells imperial quantities > by metric weight. And selling milk by the pint It's also sold by the litre. > but petrol by the litre > (so you don't notice how much it's gone up since gallons were supposed > to have disappeared. Whoever asks about your car "How many miles does it > do to the litre?"). Quite. Or even how many kilometres to the litre ... ? Mary > >G. Malcolm just complained on an Earlier post on this thread that his > >PRINTER was off by 1 mm when he's doing Diagrams. What's that work out to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to have disappeared. Whoever asks about your car "How many miles does it > do to the litre?"). *** Our cars here (Canada) sell by listing the Litres (?) per Hundred Kiloimeters. So a Fuel Efficient Car that Used to be good at 40 Miles per Gallon, better than 20 miles per Gallon, NOW NEEDS A Smaller Number (Less Litres per 100km) . THAT is a pain. Some time I'll look up the Correct spelling of Litre. Liter here is a corrupt Abbreviation for a Tool you use to light a Barbecue, or a Campfire. Or 'she's a lot liter since she started eatng Helium' .. :-< I just checked 2 bottles in the Fridge (Ice Box), and both just say 2 L. (short form for containers and packages). There Were some things here, that **used to use packages that were 322.4 ml in size, but 'truth in advertising' government bodies OR industry standardization has most of them now at a more Logical quantity -- 500ml or 0.5 L. or Sugar in 2KG bags. /G. > The metric units I don't like are: > 1) Tesla, which seems such a crazy size base unit (1 weber/m^2) that I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with it? > Malcolm G. (This was where I STARTED this message!! then I scanned above, and saw 2? places where I added stuff there.) I'll reply to this one since I don't have time (or patience) to Edit down a 9KB reply with 5 new lines of text on my 8KB note earlier. We've used Degrees C here since Prime Minister. Trudeau brought it in (1969) to encourage Trade with Europe !! Degrees K is just Degrees C starting at Absolute 0, so Freezing water ( 0 C) is 278? K. How many people would know if they need their kids to wear Gloves if it's 290? (That turns out to be 58F ) Even the UK Astronomy groups are using C and not K readings on 90% (32.5 KiloParsecs ... :-> ) of their posts... We have enough trouble with some of the 'murcans being afraid to come to Canada for the Summer (except for Dave) when they hear the High Today might only reach 30 degrees --> (86F) . I don't know (remember) what a Tesla would measure. Probably units of Magnetism? I don't remember ever needing it in Univ. Physics or Chemistry courses. Most of our products now (finally) are Packaged in 1 and 2 KG packages, Milk, Gasoline and Oil is sold by the Litre (Liter on earlier post was a Typo, but Moosoft Speelcheker doesn't know that, OR I clicked past it since I had stuff to do and that other note took an hour to type.. I also had a typo somewhere else that I was going to correct related to the Airplane Analogy, but since 'some people here' (not US) leave ALL the older text of messages, Beyond just the Context, messages were getting above 10k long, so I didn't bother doing a correction. I didn't want to miss Summer... ) /G. >> In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the >> oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >Canada: Right hand side, km/h, gas in litres. And language in ? SignatureMalcolm > >> In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the > >> oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > And language in ? Howdy! Let's not forget that Canada had the good sense to get rid of the dollar bill. They have loonies and toonies ($1 and $2 coins.) They haven't gotten rid of the penny yet, but they're decades ahead of us Yanks when it comes to money! Since my return from Canada I'm lost in the supermarket because things are not bilingually marked in English/French (can't find any fromage when I go to the dairy case.) Oh well... give it a few years and Spanish will be our OFFICIAL SECOND LANGUAGE just as French is Canada's. Ya' know what I see when I look at the Canadian examples that others have posted here? Us Yanks only did a half-a.s job of screwing them up! We're slippin', eh? Dave Dave ©¿©¬ <dave@_nospam_howdydave.com> wrote >Ya' know what I see when I look at the Canadian examples that others have >posted here? Us Yanks only did a half-a.s job of screwing them up! > >We're slippin', eh? No, about par for the course if you look at all of the American wars in my lifetime :) (Puts on flak jacket, into the bunker, and seals against virtual WMD) SignatureMalcolm > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > (Puts on flak jacket, into the bunker, and seals against virtual WMD) There aren't any - haven't you heard? :-) Mary > >> In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the > >> oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > -- > Malcolm Must say, Canadians have a real cool accent. Let me tell ya, girls with Canadian accents.................nothing better. ;-) > > >> In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where > the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Must say, Canadians have a real cool accent. Let me tell ya, girls with > Canadian accents.................nothing better. ;-) I met one at the weekend. I couldn't understand her ... :-( Mind you, the Australian one was just as difficult. Mary > > > >> In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the > road.....where [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Mary Howdy! I kinda' like the fact that I can slip back and forth between accents. I can be a cool Canadian, go to the lake and be "oot and aboot in a boot" (out and about in a boat), eh? SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dave ???? > http://www.howdydave.com *** I thought that meant they made you ride in the Trunk !! :-< Howdy! OK... so when do we convert to metric TIME units? 1 met-year = 1 kilo met-day (or should it be 100 met-days?) 1 met-day = 100 centiday 1 centiday = 1000 met-seconds Sorta' sounds like "star dates," eh? SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sorta' sounds like "star dates," eh? Howdy! To start everybody out on an equal footing, how about converting speed to furlongs per fortnight? SignatureDave ???? http://www.howdydave.com > Howdy! > OK... so when do we convert to metric TIME units? > > 1 met-year = 1 kilo met-day (or should it be 100 met-days?) G. ***Kilo is 1000, I **forget what 100 is usually (Deca?) ... Centi is Hundredths (1/100). > 1 met-day = 100 centiday > 1 centiday = 1000 met-seconds G. I don't follow Opera much. ... > Sorta' sounds like "star dates," eh? > -- > Dave ???? > http://www.howdydave.com Ummm. In days of yore the day was based on the position of the Sun as it rose and set (before Galileo? suggested it wasn't the Sun that was Moving wrt. the day, but the Earth)... If you were making a year 100? metric days long, each 'Dave Day' would be 3.6524? Olde Days long? -- so you'd need a watch that measured time about 90? hours long per day, or one H** of a Big Watch Face to be able to Read it at our age. AND **I** Wouldn't want to fly THEN !! And 3 O'clock Tea would happen exactly When ?? (Assuming that's what time these Englanders take it, at least on the Olde Clock. ) G./ > > In New Zealand we also drive on the correct side of the road.....where the > > oncoming traffic is on your right hand side. Personally, I have epilepsy [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > Canada: Right hand side, km/h, gas in litres. UK, *petrol* in litres ... Gas in "units", converted to kilowatt hours: "We convert your units to kilowatt hours in the following way: gas units used x imperial to metric conversion factor [2.83] truncated to one decimal place x volume conversion factor [1.022640] x calorific value [40.5] divided by kilowatt hour conversion factor [3.6] = kilowatt hours used." Still with me? If yes, please can you explain? I just pay the bill ... Mary >Gas in "units", converted to kilowatt hours: >"We convert your units to kilowatt hours in the following way: gas units >used x imperial to metric conversion factor [2.83] truncated to one decimal >place x volume conversion factor [1.022640] x calorific value [40.5] divided >by kilowatt hour conversion factor [3.6] = kilowatt hours used." Why "calorific value" when they've already converted to metric. Shouldn't they be working in Joules? SignatureMalcolm > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why "calorific value" when they've already converted to metric. > Shouldn't they be working in Joules? I don't make the rules, I'm just quoting what the bill says. It used to be measured, if I remember well (which isn't guaranteed) in volume, the calorific value was much more easily worked out. The idea of gas being charged by the kWh is silly, to me. But who am I to argue with the supplier? If they made it easy people might complain ... Mary > > > USA, Right hand side. (In Miles per hour...pfffft ;-) > > > Any others? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I just pay the bill ... > Mary G.--> I don't know why they'd convert Natural Gas readings to the Heat Equivalent ? (earlier post) or Kilowatt Hours. (*** NOTE Below assumed you were referring to *Natural Gas for Home heating, as opposed to Gasoline (gas) for Automobiles, or Other gases (politician's promises). If that wasn't the case, the analogies below don't apply. ) I just pulled out my Canada bill, and since the Olde Gas Meter never was replaced yet (they do on New Houses and as the Olde Ones wear out) -> my Readings show Consumption as 53 (Hundred of Cubic Feet= CCF) and in SI Metric Cubic Metres (150). That was a monthly (estimated) bill based on last 2-3 years' usage, weather conditions, etc. Each Second month an Actual reading is done (CCF to the Meter Reader's 'Palm Pilot' type reader), that gets downloaded and converted on the Paper bill back to above CCF and charges (since costs are Stair-Stepped up for Higher Usage in about 5 stages). ************** The advantage of Most of these systems is that **Metric is "Real Base 10" and (I thought Malcolm should know or know someone who'd know), a Metre is supposedly one 1/1,000,000 ? Millionth? what the ancients thought was the distance to the Sun or something strange like that. But the **Advantage of metric is you can Multiply by 10 by moving the Decimal 1 place, Divide by ten, move it Left 1 place 1234.33353069 x 1000 is 1234333.53069 . Try do that when you've got 12 feet of Lumber and need a retaining wall a Quarter mile long (5280 feet / 4). While a Gallon was 160? Fluid Ounces Canada, or 132? Ounces U.S., etc. a Litre is a Litre. Our Gasoline now is pumped in litres and priced that way, and has been since ~1970. How comfortable are you getting onto an Aircraft if there's a confusion between Litres and Gallons? Know where the Nearest landing place is between London and Montreal ?? How long can you tread water?? At least it's too far North for most Sharps -- the Ocean water is too COLD for them !! :-< ******* Many of your Medical readings, medications doses, and other parameters they're measuring while assessing you is Likely in Metric. The fact you don't SEE those readings doesn't matter so long as the **Professionals know what the readings mean. [ Quick move to pretend this is still an on-topic topic !! ] G./ > > > > USA, Right hand side. (In Miles per hour...pfffft ;-) > > > > Any others? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you were referring to *Natural Gas for Home heating, as opposed to Gasoline > (gas) for Automobiles, Yes, I did say that we use petrol in cars (automobiles). In the good old days of coal gas the thermal units varied according to the quality of the gas so we didn't have just one price per unit, it had to be converted separately for each bill. > I just pulled out my Canada bill, and since the Olde Gas Meter never was > replaced yet (they do on New Houses and as the Olde Ones wear out) -> my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Metre is supposedly one 1/1,000,000 ? Millionth? what the ancients thought > was the distance to the Sun or something strange like that. I thought it was an Earthly measurement but yes, it was something just as arcane. > But the **Advantage of metric is you can Multiply by 10 by moving the > Decimal 1 place, Divide by ten, move it Left 1 place 1234.33353069 x 1000 > is 1234333.53069 . Is that so? :-) > Try do that when you've got 12 feet of Lumber and > need a retaining wall a Quarter mile long (5280 feet / 4). I know, you need to use your brain. What a terrible thing! > While a Gallon > was 160? Fluid Ounces Canada, or 132? Ounces U.S., etc. a Litre is a Litre. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How comfortable are you getting onto an Aircraft if there's a confusion > between Litres and Gallons? > Know where the Nearest landing place is between > London and Montreal ?? How long can you tread water?? Time still uses base 60 ... > ******* > Many of your Medical readings, medications doses, and other parameters > they're measuring while assessing you is Likely in Metric. The fact you > don't SEE those readings doesn't matter so long as the **Professionals know > what the readings mean. [ Quick move to pretend this is still an on-topic > topic !! ] G./ I do understand, having worked in pharmacy and in laboratories. Mind you, that was in the days of scruples ... Ah, happy days! Interestingly, not all medical units are metric. They measure newborn babies in cms but weigh them in lbs and ozs. I once met a man who'd developed a metric time system, he was very convincing about its advantages. He was the President of the World Time Association (or something like it). There was a membership of one. Mary > > But the **Advantage of metric is you can Multiply by 10 by moving the > > Decimal 1 place, Divide by ten, move it Left 1 place 1234.33353069 x 1000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I know, you need to use your brain. What a terrible thing! G- You're expecting too much of people at multiple levels in a Construction Project to all have their own Palm Pilot with them and in Synch. while they assemble that Building across from where you live. THAT Might have worked once in Pisa, but it's not reliable enough now for London or New York to build large building over Subways and underground cables and piping. / > > While a Gallon > > was 160? Fluid Ounces Canada, or 132? Ounces U.S., etc. a Litre is a Litre. > > Our Gasoline now is pumped in litres and priced that way, and has been since > > ~1970. > > > > How comfortable are you getting onto an Aircraft if there's a confusion > > between Litres and Gallons? > > > Know where the Nearest landing place is between > > London and Montreal ?? How long can you tread water?? > > Time still uses base 60 ... **** Time was assembled from 60 second minutes Before Galileo was being kicked out of the Church. What's that got to do with Distance, Volume or Weight? :-< G. > > ******* > > Many of your Medical readings, medications doses, and other parameters [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > There was a membership of one. > Mary *** We've had 3-4 deaths here over last 5 years from Dosages for People and Babies being confused between the Doctors Prescription and the Administerer (Administrator?) of the medicine. /G. > > > But the **Advantage of metric is you can Multiply by 10 by moving > the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > G- You're expecting too much of people at multiple levels in a Construction > Project to all have their own Palm Pilot with them No - I said BRAIN - you know, that thing we used to use (and some people still do) which resides in our head and can work wonders if trained and used. > and in Synch. while they > assemble that Building across from where you live. THAT Might have worked > once in Pisa, but it's not reliable enough now for London or New York to > build large building over Subways and underground cables and piping. / Why not? Pisa wasn't perfect but places such as Salisbury Cathedral lasted longer and I suspect will still be there when the subways have collapsed. > > > While a Gallon > > > was 160? Fluid Ounces Canada, or 132? Ounces U.S., etc. a Litre is a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > confusion > > > between Litres and Gallons? There's no confusion. > > > Know where the Nearest landing place is between > > > London and Montreal ?? How long can you tread water?? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > kicked out of the Church. What's that got to do with Distance, Volume or > Weight? :-< G. I was answering the question, "how long ... ?". My answer was relevant. > > > ******* > > > Many of your Medical readings, medications doses, and other [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > and Babies being confused between the Doctors Prescription and the > Administerer (Administrator?) of the medicine. /G. > > Interestingly, not all medical units are metric. They measure newborn > babies [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and Babies being confused between the Doctors Prescription and the > Administerer (Administrator?) of the medicine. /G. Sorry for hitting Send too soon. The 3-4 deaths were nothing to do with the lengths or weights of babies were they? I doubt it. They were due to human incompetence, not the system. Mary > > > Interestingly, not all medical units are metric. They measure newborn > > babies [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mary They were due to a Doctor or Nurse giving someone eg. 100mg? of Morphine when the script called for 10, or similar Medication 'Multiplier' mixups, that were in error by 10x above the acceptable dose for the person's age and level of illness or the child (and their lower weight and metabolism rates). When a baby is only 10kg (22 lbs) that has nothing to do with the Dosing rate that a Dr. might set depending on the condition, when the Measurement was out by a factor of 10x. . G./ Hi Marco, I think you hit on the reason - those brits drive on the wrong side of the road, that must be why they feel "fit" to call a seizure a fit ;-) Personally, I'm fit as a fiddle right now, so it won't bother me what you call the seizures. But who knows how I'll feel about it tomorrow. Take care, Julie > > I haven't heard of anyone complain of this here on this ng. We have &g |
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