> >There is very little evidence that it causes brain damage. In fact, there
> >is so little evidence that it is widely believed NOT to cause brain damage.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >There is very little evidence that it causes brain damage. In fact, there
> >is so little evidence that it is widely believed NOT to cause brain damage.
[quoted text clipped - 605 lines]
>
> ========================================
The paper you listed, while more 'up to date' makes no mention of Epilepsy
or Seizure disorders, although it makes a passing reference to treatment of
depression and other conditions.
Without having significant medical training myself, except wrt. the types
of seizures that *I have, which started in the Right Temporal Lobe, there
was no reference on earlier stuff except for whether damage did or did not
occur in any of the Temporal Lobes.
If I can get (have got) 100% control within 3 years of onset, for
Complex Partial type seizures (1993), I doubt I'd attempt something as
'invasive' as ElectroShock Therapy when the original Encephalitis had
already damaged part of my Right Temporal Lobe before it was stopped
(1979). It was the damage from the Encephalitis that produced the memory
dysfunction that made up the 1980s (for me), and not the Seizure onset in
1993.
Actually I was better able to tell the Medics what had happened ahead of
seizures Better in 1993, than I would have been able to in 1979-85.
(My) risking further damage or aneurisms(?) rather than using the
complete control I now have (since 1993), would appear to be
counterproductive for my type. And I didn't see anything there that was
significant for Other Epilepsy Types, except for the 'aside' of Experiments
in Treating Depression. I only got depressed after I had read the whole
article and hadn't found anything New wrt. Epilepsy treatment... :-<
(WRT Science and Medical studies, lack of evidence that something doesn't
cause problems does not prove the corollary. That's where the Double Blind
and other studies attempt to remove tester bias.
Lack of proof that Thalidomide was Not a good Relaxant in the 1970s did
not determine all the potential effects for a Pregnant Mother. ) G./
I marked a couple of parts with **s below related to comments above (within
Klenow's comments), and edited out some of the 'desiderata'. I only have a
finite web-server. :-< /
> > >There is very little evidence that it causes brain damage. In fact,
there
> > >is so little evidence that it is widely believed NOT to cause brain
damage.
> > Then how do you explain the dementia (mainly loss of memory) which
> > consistently occurs after ECT and sometimes persists indefinitely?
> >
> > A peer-reviewed published paper with its references:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> With respect to the memory disruption for events surrounding the procedure,
> as I stated in my post, there is little (if any) evidence of cell loss with
> ECT but there is substantial evidence of alterations in neuronal connections
> and electrophysiological responses when examined in animal models. The
> alteration of neuronal function can be responsible for memory disruption in
************************************************************
> the absence of cell death. Our lab has been studying the anatomical and
> physiological effects of seizures (including electroconvulsive shock) on the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> structural brain damage. METHOD: The literature review covered the following
> areas: cognitive side effects, structural brain imaging, autopsies of
patients
> who had received ECT, post-mortem studies of epileptic subjects, animal
studies
> of electroconvulsive shock (ECS) and epilepsy, and the neuropathological
effects
> of the passage of electricity, heat generation, and blood-brain barrier
> disruption. RESULTS: ECT-induced cognitive deficits are transient, although
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> autopsy case reports from the unmodified ECT era reported cerebrovascular
> lesions that were due to agonal changes or undiagnosed disease. In animal
ECS
> studies that used a stimulus intensity and frequency comparable to human
ECT, no
> neuronal loss was seen when appropriate control animals, blind ratings, and
> perfusion fixation techniques were employed. Controlled studies using
> quantitative cell counts have failed to show neuronal loss even after
prolonged
> courses of ECS. Several well-controlled studies have demonstrated that
neuronal
> loss occurs only after 1.5 to 2 hours of continuous seizure activity in
> primates, and adequate muscle paralysis and oxygenation further delay these
> changes. These conditions are not approached during ECT. Other findings
indicate
> that the passage of electricity, thermal effects, and the transient
disruption
> of the blood-brain barrier during ECS do not result in structural brain
damage.
> CONCLUSIONS: There is no credible evidence that ECT causes structural brain
> damage.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> treatments for major depressive disorder but has also been associated with
> cognitive deficits possibly reflecting brain damage. The aim of this study
was
> therefore to evaluate whether ECT induces cerebral damage as reflected by
> different biochemical measures. The concentrations in the cerebrospinal
fluid
> (CSF) of three established markers of neuronal/glial degeneration, tau
protein
> (tau), neurofilament (NFL) and S-100 beta protein, were determined in nine
> patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for major depression. CSF samples
were
> collected before and after a course of six ECT sessions.
The CSF/serum (S)
> albumin ratio reflecting potential blood-brain barrier (BBB) dysfunction was
> also determined at these time points. The treatment was clinically
successful
> with a significant decline of depressive symptoms in all patients as
assessed by
> the Montgomery-Asberg Rating Scale for Depression. Several patients had
signs of
> BBB dysfunction and/or neuronal damage before the start of treatment.
Levels of
> CSF-tau, CSF-NFL and CSF-S-100 beta levels were not significantly changed by
> ECT. Also the CSF/S albumin ratio was found to be unchanged after the
course of
> ECT. In conclusion, no biochemical evidence of neuronal/glial damage or BBB
> dysfunction could be demonstrated following a therapeutic course of ECT.
********G. *** Sounds good to Me !! :-< But except for a couple of
comments about 'neuronal damage' within the text, I'm not sure what it does
for people looking for 'support' on an Epilepsy Group. Heck I can't
remember the Last time I had my CSF-tau levels checked. But then that's
from the Right T.Lobe damage, and not so much from any BBB dysfunction. /
> > >There is very little evidence that it causes brain damage. In fact,
there
> > >is so little evidence that it is widely believed NOT to cause brain
damage.
> > Then how do you explain the dementia (mainly loss of memory) which
> > consistently occurs after ECT and sometimes persists indefinitely?
> >
> > A peer-reviewed published paper with its references:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> > Shock Treatment, Brain Damage, and
> > Memory Loss: A Neurological Perspective
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > electroconvulsive therapy in experimental animals and humans.
> > Although findings of petechial hemorrhage. gliosis. and neuronal
loss
> > were well established in the decade following the introduction of
> > ECT. they have been generally ignored since then. ECT produces
> > characteristic EEG changes and severe retrograde amnesia. as well
as
> > other more subtle effects on memory and learning. The author
> > concludes that ECT results in brain disease and questions whether
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > One of the results of the whole thing is that I have no memory of
> > what happened in the year to year and a half prior to my shock
*****************************************************
> > treatments. The doctor assured me that it was going to come back
and
> > it never has. I don't remember a bloody thing. I couldn't even find
******************************************************
> > my way around the town I lived in for three years. If I walked into
a
> > building I didn't even know where I was. I could barely find my way
> > around my own house. I could sew and knit before. but afterward I
********************************************************
> > could no more comprehend a pattern to sew than the man in the
> > moon.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > brain damage, and greater retrograde amnesia than is seen in any other
> > form of head injury.
///////////////
> > HUMAN BRAIN DAMAGE
> > Let us turn now to the neuropathological findings in humans who died
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> > studies to the growing list and commented, "In all observations of
> > sudden death after electric shock reported so far. petechial
***************************************************
> > hemorrhages, cellular changes and some glial proliferation stand out
***********************************************************
> > prominently. as an almost constant whole."
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> > subarachnoid hemorrhage was found in the upper part of the left motor
> > region...."at the site where an electrode had been applied."(18)
*********************************************************
> > In 1957 Impastato summarized 254 electroshock fatalities. Brain damage
was
> > the leading cause of death in persons under 40 years of age, and nearly
***********************************************************
> > one-fifth of all cerebral deaths were hemorrhagic (19).
**************************************************
> > ////////
> > In 1963, McKegney and associates (21) reported the case of a 23 year
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > i.e.. 130 volts for .3 seconds. Four days later a brain biopsy showed
> > diffuse degeneration of neurons with hyperplasia of astrocytes. The
young
> > man never regained consciousness and at autopsy 2 months later
******************************************************
> > evidence of old hemorrhage was found in the brain. This was the last
detailed
> > report in the English-language literature.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> > The seizure thresholds of the hippocampus and other temporal lobe
***********************************************************
> > structures are the lowest in the brain; considerable interest has
> > centered recently around "kindling, ' or seizure induction by
> > subthreshold stimulation of these areas in animals (39). The induction
of
> > a permanent epileptic disorder following ECT in humans was first
reported
> > in 1942 and other reports followed (40).
> >
> > MEMORY LOSS
> > ECT is a common cause of severe retrograde amnesia, i.e.. destruction of
> > memories of events prior to an injury. The potency of ECT as an amnestic
> > exceeds that of severe closed head injury with coma. It is surpassed
*******************************************************
> > only by prolonged deficiency of thiamine pyrophosphate. bilateral
temporal
> > lobectomy, and the accelerated dementias, such as Alzheimer's.
> >
> > After ECT it takes 5 to 10 minutes just to remember who you are. where
you
*************************************************************
> > are. and what day it is. In the first weeks after a full course,
> > retrograde and, to a lesser extent, anterograde amnesia are evident to
the
> > casual observer. But as time passes compensation occurs. As in other
forms
> > of brain injury. the subject is often oblivious to the residual
> > deficit.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> > The effect of ECT on memory was common knowledge within a few years of
its introduction.
///////////
Some doctors dismissed these sequelae as trivial or transient, although one
psychiatrist remarked that
> > psychotherapy was useless in patients undergoing ECT because they
couldn't
> > remember "'either the analyst or the content of the analytic sessions
from
> > one day to the next.'' (46).
> >
> > Numerous such case reports finally led to a definitive study of the
> > effects of ECT on memory by Irving Janis in 1950 (47). He found that
> > all 19 subjects in a controlled prospective investigation had
************************************************
> > significant memory loss 4 weeks after ECT, compared to negligible
******************************************************
> > losses among control subjects. He also noted that these losses may
******************************
> > involve events of early childhood dating back 20 to 40 years, with the
> > more recently en- coded memories being the most vulnerable. Patient E.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > 10 shocks if she had ever taken thyroid she responded: "I don't think
> > so."
////////////// Inglis found in 1970 (51) that the effects of unilateral ECT
were comparable to those of
> > right and left temporal lobectomy, with identical impairment of memory
and learning.
> > Recently there has been a good deal of human experimentation in a
> > futile effort to find electrode placements that eliminate amnesia. As
the
> > use of ECT has shifted from state hospitals to private practice, the
> > literature has focused more and more on memory loss.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > In regard to more general intellectual ability, a study in 1973 (54)
******************************************************
> > showed that the performance on the Bender Gestalt perceptual motor
> > test of 20 institutionalized subjects who had received 50 or more ECT
> > treatments 10 to 15 years before testing was significantly impaired
*******************************************************
> > compared to the performance of 20 carefully matched control subjects who
> > had not received ECT. The authors inferred that ECT had caused
********************
> > permanent be damage.
************************
> >///////////
> > CONCLUSIONS
> > From a neurological point of view ECT is a method of producing amnesia
by
> > selectively damaging the temporal lobes and the structures within them.
**************************************
> > When it was first introduced it was only one of several methods of
> > producing brain damage employed in psychiatry, including insulin coma
> > (1927)* camphor and Pentylenetetrazol (Metrazol) injections (1933).
//////////////, ********it is the only such method from ***that era still
> > used on a large scale. It is highly unlikely that ECT, if critically
> > examined, would be found acceptable by today's standards of safety.
*********************************************************
> > From a neurological point of view ECT produces form of brain disease.
> > Many psychiatrists are unaware that ECT causes brain damage and memory
> > loss because numerous authorities and a leading psychiatric textbook
(58)
**************************
> > deny these facts.
*****************
> > Others, who know of its effects argue that the interruption of
> > unpleasant states of mind is worth the damage. Some are beginning to
*************************** :-o *********
> > give the client a truly informed choice, although state laws still
> > allow ECT to be imposed if the doctor feels that ''good cause'' exists.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> > physician.
> > ========================================
turbinado - 21 Apr 2004 20:44 GMT
I don't think anyone was suggesting it as a treatment for epilepsy. TIMMCO
was referring to the original idea of EST having been inspired by the
supposed beneficial effects of epileptic seizures.
As for how much brain damage it causes, etc., that's not relevant to the
original post. TIMMCO was looking for information on the origins of the
therapy, not its side effects.
The only thing I can add to this is to attest that epilepsy does not provide
immunity from depression. In fact, depression is one of the aftereffects of
a major seizure for me.
> The paper you listed, while more 'up to date' makes no mention of Epilepsy
> or Seizure disorders, although it makes a passing reference to treatment of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> was no reference on earlier stuff except for whether damage did or did not
> occur in any of the Temporal Lobes.
(snip)