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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / April 2004

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Oh the Pain!!

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lialoni - 05 Apr 2004 02:12 GMT
Hi All!!
I'm new to this site and am very happy I found it. My brother and I have
been dealing with his tonic-clonic seizures for the last two years. He
averages about 1 seizure about every 6 to 8 weeks, and I have been present
for nearly all of them. With his last one I realized that I can tell when
one is going to come on, sadely I didn't heed my own internal warning and
he was at work when he had it. He hasent had solid food for days now, and
is in alot of pain. One thing I cant imagine is letting him eat up his
tongue. After a few early on mistakes with pinching his lips with things,
I have been able to successfully protect his tongue from the horrible
injuries he gets from biting it. How do you all feel about all the first
aid material saying to not put things in the mouth?? These are my
thoughts, I am not putting anything in his mouth so that he doesent
swallow his tongue, I am doing it so he can doesent clamp down on it. It
only takes a small firm, not hard, object between his teeth right in front
of his canines. I have even rolled up the shirt I was wearing and put it
between his front teeth to protect his tongue.
I would love to hear some experiences and thoughts on this one!!
Lia
CyberCafe - 05 Apr 2004 05:35 GMT
> Hi All!!
> I'm new to this site and am very happy I found it. My brother and I have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> he was at work when he had it. He hasent had solid food for days now, and
> is in alot of pain.

He should be seen by a doctor to check if his tongue is infected. Hey, it
happens sometimes with people who get their tongues pierced.  The mouth is
definitely not a sterile environment.

> One thing I cant imagine is letting him eat up his
> tongue.

A dentist can make a custom tooth  or mouth guard that might help protect his
tongue, cheeks, lips.  They can make clear guards so people won't notice it so
much.

> After a few early on mistakes with pinching his lips with things,
> I have been able to successfully protect his tongue from the horrible
> injuries he gets from biting it. How do you all feel about all the first
> aid material saying to not put things in the mouth?? These are my
> thoughts, I am not putting anything in his mouth so that he doesent
> swallow his tongue,

A person can't swallow their tongue. It's attached to other mouth structures
so it can't be swallowed.  If it's not too difficult or dangerous to you, you
could try rolling him on his side.

> I am doing it so he can doesent clamp down on it. It
> only takes a small firm, not hard, object between his teeth right in front
> of his canines. I have even rolled up the shirt I was wearing and put it
> between his front teeth to protect his tongue.
> I would love to hear some experiences and thoughts on this one!!

Most do not recommend putting anything in a person's mouth during a seizure.
Main problems are tooth damage, the person who is trying to insert something
can be bitten, and there is the possibility of choking on some objects.  Also,
if a person's nose is congested, shoving fabric in the mouth could make it
difficult for the person to breath.

I think you are a real doll trying to help your brother, but there are going
to be times when you will not be present when he has a seizure.  Some other
solution should be looked into.

Barb

> Lia
gaross - 05 Apr 2004 06:34 GMT
 In addition to what Barb just posted for you (I was going to say a person
can't bite their tongue, but I guess if they're on their side, it might be
possible) -->
  *Julie has 2 posts at the Top of my message threads still, ti Someone
else.
   IF there's a post there on your reader, at End of her posts she lists
her Idaho Website address.   Click on it, then Bookmark the Entrance.
Inside the site there are *2 First Aid Charts you can print.  MAIN one, for
now is the Main First Aid for Seizures Chart.
 Second one is First Aid in Water (if he swims any or much).  Method are
slightly different on land versus water.

  In addition to what Barb already said, a Dentist can give him a quote for
fitting of an 'Occlusal Splint'.  That's the soft plastic semicircle that
fits over the Top Teeth at bedtime. This prevents tongue or tooth damage if
he had a seizure during the night.   When I first was having seizures, I
needed a new one about each 6-8 months, now I only get one replaced about
each 3-4 years.   (Once the impressions and lab work is done, that's 75% of
the cost, and the splint is about $40. Canadian --> total might be about
$150-200. with the splint and Dental charges. You'd have to convert to
currency of your own country, that's why I suggested the quote.)
   A cheaper 'test version' my dentist suggested for kids (since their jaws
grow so quickly), was to go to a Sporting Goods Store and buy the type they
sell for Soccer or Hockey Goalies.  Those cover the top and *bottom teeth
both.  He said to cut it in Half,  Horizontally, since you only need cover
the top  teeth to protect tongue and teeth.  Now you have *2 guards.  (I
don't know if those are harder to get used to if they're thicker than the
Dental Version.  But those cost about *$40. Canadian vs. above costs.   If
he's Younger and still growing, that might be a cheaper method anyway.
  (The rolled up 'anything' in his mouth might interfere with Normal sleep
even if he weren't having seizures at night.  And Restless sleep further
reduces our 'seizure threshold' -- the level where we might be more Prone to
having seizures than without your solution below.
  Does the Doctor **know he's having seizures at night?  His Night Dose of
any medications he's using should be adjusted until he can sleep through the
night.  That might require a Higher dose at bedtime, but a reduced? one in
the morning.    Finding a Balance that works is worth the effort !!   Once
he gets a level that gives complete (or better) control, his rest will
improve, his feelings about himself will improve and he'll generally move
away from the frequency of seizures he might be having now.
   That was my experience.. )  /G.      (I left your whole post below, for
me,  in case I think of anything else!)

> Hi All!!
> I'm new to this site and am very happy I found it. My brother and I have
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I would love to hear some experiences and thoughts on this one!!
> Lia
lialoni - 06 Apr 2004 00:54 GMT
I can't help but feel like my post wasen't read correctly. I think that
people who are close to those that have tonic-clonics can learn to safely
prevent the tongue damage that occurs. My brother only has one about every
two months and never has them during the night. I have never shoved things
into his mouth, I know he can't swallow his tongue, i have only prevented
his teeth from clamping on his tongue. Once the clonic stage of his
seizure ends and his body relaxes, his teeth clamp right before he starts
to breath again. He doesent have any absesses just cuts and bruises. His
last seizure was Friday and he feels much better now, though he wishes I
had been there. After every seizure he and I both investigate the teeth
inpressions he leaves so we are very aware of how hard he clamps, and thus
I am aware of what is safe to use and what is not. My main goal is to keep
his teeth from clamping and keeping his airway clear. I do have to turn
him on his side, the noise from his initial breaths is horribly
frightning!
Julie - 06 Apr 2004 06:51 GMT
Welcome to our group Lialoni, I understood your post.  I do think the idea of
a guard for your brother's teeth is a good idea, but I can imagine it might
not be the handiest thing at the moment.  I found it interesting that you know
when he will bite down - right before he starts to breath.  So if you have
something soft you place it in his mouth before that happens?  I guess that
would work as long as you don't put your fingers in his mouth while you are
doing it.  If he clamped down on your finger you could be seriously injured
and it could injur his teeth or jaw.

I used to bite my tongue, but I got braces and that fixed my bite.  I haven't
bitten my tongue since then.  But my seizures have been controlled for almost
9 years now.

Today I am in serious pain, but it has nothing to do with seizures.  I worked
in my garden for several hours and I'm walking around like a 90 year old
lady.  It does remind me of how much pain I was in after a seizure and how
slow I had to walk.

Best wishes and glad you are there for your brother.
Julie, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

> I can't help but feel like my post wasen't read correctly. I think that
> people who are close to those that have tonic-clonics can learn to safely
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> him on his side, the noise from his initial breaths is horribly
> frightning!
gaross - 06 Apr 2004 14:31 GMT
 Barb and I gave some standard responses and references to websites that
might still have been visible at that time, that some new people often don't
know about.
   Many of the seizure types that happen during the daytime, happen more
Easily at night.  If his is not one of them he's fortunate  (that was where
the Occlusal Splint would be of use).

   Does he always have seizures while you are there?   What happens when
you're not?  (Does he have a Medic Alert Id. or other method for people to
know what to do?)

   I also asked if he was taking any medications, so that some others who
might use the same type might have comments or tips to pass along if you had
told us that.   Those are one of the main areas where some have experience
with a variety of anti ep. medications.
  If he's not, even if his seizures are infrequent, use some type might
reduce their severity or stop them altogether. (Last Complex Partial I had
was June 1998 for example.)
   I thought that many Tonic Clonic seizures ended in loss of
consciousness.  If he's just 'away' but conscious, what he's having might be
desribed under Absences or Simple Partial type seizures.  FYI.  G.R. /.

> I can't help but feel like my post wasen't read correctly. I think that
> people who are close to those that have tonic-clonics can learn to safely
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> him on his side, the noise from his initial breaths is horribly
> frightning!
CyberCafe - 06 Apr 2004 19:41 GMT
> I can't help but feel like my post wasen't read correctly.

That is a problem with anything in print form.  I transcribe (type from audio
recordings) for a living, and things in print can sound completely different
when read back than what the person actually said.  I mean, there are a few
things you can do to show emphasis, pauses, and such, but that's kind of
generic and doesn't take all the variations, all the possible ways of oral
expression, into account.

I have a tendency myself to over explain because I don't know how much
somebody else knows.  So if I go on a tangent, just ignore me.

I'm glad you're here asking questions and participating in the newsgroup!

Barb

> I think that
> people who are close to those that have tonic-clonics can learn to safely
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> him on his side, the noise from his initial breaths is horribly
> frightning!
lialoni - 07 Apr 2004 03:38 GMT
Thanks you guys for "re-answering" me!! I tend to over explain also so if
you please, bear with me as well! To answer the first few questions, No I
am not always with my brother when he has his seizures. The last two he
had I new before he left that he was going to have one but I wasen't sure
of myself enough to really make any difference in where he was when he had
them. He was at H&R Block in Jan and had one, he hit the floor and still
has scars on his face from it. The ambulance was called and he refused
treatment, I was called to come pick him up. He never went to the
hospital. The one he had last week he was at work, this time they wouldnt
let him refuse, and they took him in. He isnt a very good patient so
nothing very good came of that. We live in a rather small town so I am
always contacted even though he wears no bracelet. He goes completely
unconscious when he has them, and has absolutly no memory of them or what
he did before them, sometimes the whole day is gone. He can come out of
them all the way in about 10 minutes after he has one, but if he is in a
position to, he will fall into a deep sleep after about on hour of waking
to look around, then falling back to sleep. From what I've been told he
used to wake up very violently from them, throwing punches at anyone near
him. He no longer does that, but the look of terror is still on his face
when he first comes too. I have to reasure him that he is ok and not to
try to get up and run, or whatever it is he thinks he has to do. His boss
had to pin him down with his whole body last week! He isnt easy to subdue
being 6'4" upwards of 250lbs! I have had to catch him more than once and
lower him to the ground or floor. I can remember every seizure I have been
with him through. They are very tramatic events!! He isn't on any meds now
and is very leery to get on any because of his experience with Dilantin.
He is a smart person but is allready slow at doing some things without
being on medication. He hates the, as Malcome puts it, "Brain Fog". We are
in the process of getting him medicaid, he has no insurance through his
work, and will hopefully get him into a doctor early next week. He had
EEG's done when his seizures first started when he was 15, and of course
it was negative, he only has them two or three months apart. Its like as
time goes on he gets slower and I can just tell somehow that he is about
to have one. I have too pay more attention next time to what it is exactly
I pick up on. The seizure seems to clear his mind. His main question(he
wants to get involved with your group sometime), as well as mine is wether
it is really worth taking the meds. Well I think that about covers it,
hopefully I didn't put anyone to sleep!!
Sincerely
Lialoni
gaross - 07 Apr 2004 04:12 GMT
If I cut and pasted this O.K., below is an older post I did that listed some
of our Prime Sites (except for Howdy Dave's that are listed at end of any of
his posts, when he's around, or someone might have it too).
  It's like a 'book report' on some of the seizure Information sites.  If
your brother gets anything prescribed, there's a Medications Glossary within
the EFA dot Org site (Ep. Foundation of America) that describes how to use
various pills, side effects and whether they're something to contact a Dr.
about, and types of seizures they work for.

   Check the first? of Julie's Idaho sites.   There's 2 (now) First Aid for
Seizures Charts you could print (Second one is for First Aid in water).  The
First one tells what to do, but ALSO gives a good description of what the
Outward Appearances or Behaviours are for each seizure type, and Feelings a
person might have while 'inside one'.

   Look at the descriptions for Complex Partial (older name some sites is
Temporal Lobe Epilepsy), OR Grand Mal.
   Some of what you describe sound like MINE!!  (before I was controlled),
i.e. the C.P. seizure type.

   Dilantin is often prescribed first for that (or some other types) as
it's one of the older medications (1930s?) so more studied and if it works
for people is also the cheapest since the Research and Development costs
have been recovered long ago.    Some of what you described sounded somewhat
like the Aura of a Complex Partial, but look at the others anyway.   All
those sites, plus Dave Naess' one are worth putting on Favourites or
Bookmarks so you can go look at them whenever you want.
  (Several of the Medications-- I don't remember if Dilantin is one, depend
on taking a Fixed Dose each day 1-2x, at a fixed rate.   Interrupting the
schedule by stopping some, like my Tegretol, can produce a Withdrawal
effect, or what I used to call 'recoil seizures', where I'd get worse
seizures than if I hadn't forgot a dose. )

 Julie Walton posts frequently (when she has time), and is the Webmaster of
the Idaho Site referenced here.

 There's also a Tips and Tricks section some of us have contributed to with
ideas to make Living with Epilepsy Easier (e.g. in my case- remembering if I
took my AM pills yet, or forgot, so I don't accidentally take 2 doses, or
miss one).

  I used to also get the 'Brain Fog' you mention.  Sometimes it was part of
an Aura that might mean I could have a seizure (before I was controlled),
and sometimes it came as we increased doses until I got to a stable level
that worked. But the Fog, looking back, was better than the number of times
I woke up on a Floor or in Emerg.  :-<

   Try these Sites  -->   G.R.
**************** below (above your post) is from my older post -->

I did a couple of posts over last ~3 days where I referred a few people to
'the Idaho First Aid Chart' or 'Idaho Website' without seeing it up on any
posts I have right now in my charts.

 So for anyone who hasn't seen these already -->
The General Site that Julie operates for Epilepsy Idaho group is at:
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org .

The 'First Aid chart' I frequently refer to can be located by entering and
wandering about site above, but can be reached direct at
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm  .
 There's a Second topic added about 4? months ago that goes more into First
Aid in Water, on Aircraft, etc.  It's at
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure2.htm  .

 Also accessible from top site, but more detail on Learning about Epilepsy
can be found at http://www.epilepsyidaho/learn.htm   .  That one has quite a
few more links, information on kids newly diagnosed? (I think) and general
questions that others might ask, or those newly diagnosed.

  If there's no link there to a Medications Glossary, the Ep. Foundation of
America has one (of several)  within http://efa.org   .        G./

> Thanks you guys for "re-answering" me!! I tend to over explain also so if
> you please, bear with me as well! To answer the first few questions, No I
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Sincerely
> Lialoni
lialoni - 07 Apr 2004 06:21 GMT
Thanks Barb, I looked up complex partials and I dont know for sure if those
are wnat they are on not. What he does every time is come to a complete
stop in whatever he is doing then his head turns to the side, the right I
believe, then he falls and his face contorts, mouth wide open, and he
seizs, then his contortion eases and he jerks, then it slows and starts to
stop, as soon as it stops he clamps and starts to breath again. One time
we were walking through the woods to a swimming hole and he stopped and I
got anoyed and said "what is it" I thought mabye there was a spider web
across our path or something, then he turned his head to the LEFT
slowely,up towaqrd the sky, like he was looking at something, and I had to
catch him. We had to walk back home after that, over a train tressel that
crossed a river!! I almost had to ask him to crawl because his balance was
so off. Anyway, the water aid may come in handy, as well as all the
others. Thank you , you have been much help.
Lialoni
Dave ???? - 07 Apr 2004 07:15 GMT
Howdy!

When it comes to prescription meds, my favorite site is:

http://www.rxlist.com

Signature

Dave ????
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"

http://www.howdydave.com

Daz_n_Pat - 07 Apr 2004 20:40 GMT
Hi Lialoni,
Your brother's seizures sound EXACTLY, EXACTLY the same as mine were 30
years ago when I first started having them. They started me on dilantin
also. This got them under control to a degree - I was having them several
times a day to start with, but the dilantin slowed them down. I was
fortunate enough not to have any side effects with the dilantin. Gradually
my seizures became less severe and eventually, with the addition of other
drugs, they turned from grand mal seizures into complex partials. (Don't ask
the hows, whys and wherefores about that.....they just did). Over the last
30 years I've tried out virtually every medication available in my country
(New Zealand). I'm about to try out another which has just become available
here. (Can't remember the name). Some of them have caused bad side effects,
but some have worked well. It's a matter of trial and error, since everyone
reacts differently to meds. I'm still having several complex partials every
day, but that's much better than having the grand mals.
I believe your brother does need to try out different medications, to find
one (or a combination) that will work for him without the bad side effects.
There are a lot of meds available and there's sure to be something that will
help. He definitely needs to work in with a neurologist or epileptologist to
get it sorted.
Biting of the tongue is not nice, I know. Mine absessed once and I couldn't
eat or talk for three or four days (Was probably a blessing for those around
me that I couldn't talk).
Just out of curiosity - and I hope you don't mind me asking - but are you
and your brother twins?

Cheers.
Darryl.

--

To email, change daryl to darryl in address.

> Thanks Barb, I looked up complex partials and I dont know for sure if those
> are wnat they are on not. What he does every time is come to a complete
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> others. Thank you , you have been much help.
> Lialoni
lialoni - 10 Apr 2004 00:00 GMT
Hello darryl, No we are not twins. We were actuall raised on different
sides of the country, he in California, Michigan being my home state. He
has only been here for two years, since he lost his mother when he was 17.
I didn't know that he had seizures, he was very embarassed about them, but
after he had the first when he was here he could no longer hide it! I have
sort of adopted him and we take care of eachother. I go to school full
time for nursing and he works. I am assuming you are seeing if there is a
connection between me being able to sense his seizures and our biological
relationship. Twins sometimes feel eachother in ways "normal" sibs don't.
But that isnt the case with us. I am a naturally inquesitive and sensative
person who has paid more attention to his triggers than most.
I don't mind questions! Ask away!!
Lialoni
Daz_n_Pat - 10 Apr 2004 11:23 GMT
:-) Thanks. Yes, I was wondering about an ability to sense things from a
twin.
I won't get too personal with the questions, though....promise.   ;-)

--

To email, change daryl to darryl in address.

> Hello darryl, No we are not twins. We were actuall raised on different
> sides of the country, he in California, Michigan being my home state. He
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I don't mind questions! Ask away!!
> Lialoni
CyberCafe - 08 Apr 2004 00:32 GMT
> Thanks Barb, I looked up complex partials and I dont know for sure if those
> are wnat they are on not. What he does every time is come to a complete
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> so off. Anyway, the water aid may come in handy, as well as all the
> others. Thank you , you have been much help.

Oh my gosh.  Sounds so scary.  It doesn't sound like the simple partial or
complex partial seizures I know and love (ha!).

Barb

> Lialoni
gaross - 08 Apr 2004 02:42 GMT
> > Thanks Barb, I looked up complex partials and I dont know for sure if those
> > are wnat they are on not. What he does every time is come to a complete
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> >
> > Lialoni

  I only knew about what I did during a C.P. seizure from what other
witnesses told me happened (1993-7).  The First Aid Idaho Chart describes
some of the behaviours.
  I don't know much about what a Grand Mal looks like, but a lot of his
symptoms sounded like my Complex Partial types, and the 'loss of awareness
but conscious still', sounded like Simple Partial (absences).
  (Usually if I had a full C.P. it ended with passing out, and awakening 20
min. to 2 hours later.)
  That's why I cut and pasted the Idaho First Aid link there.  G./
Julie - 07 Apr 2004 19:52 GMT
Hi Lialoni and brother, please see my comments below -- Julie

> <snip>

>  The last two he had I new before he left that he was going to have one
> <snip>

When this happens again ask him if he is feeling different.  Sometimes we get
a funny feeling in our stomach.  Kind of a scary feeling.  Or we may just feel
tired.  I don't drive when I don't feel well, even though I've been seizure
free for so long and I take medication daily.  I know, especially because of
the stress I'm under, that I could have a seizure at any time.

> <snip>

> He was at H&R Block in Jan and had one, he hit the floor and still
> has scars on his face from it. <snip>

I have an aura before I have a tonic clonic (grand mal) seizure.  I was just
telling my husband this story the other day.  It was over 25 years ago, I was
pregnant with our first child.  It was extremely hot and I walked a few blocks
to a drug store.  I was in the checkout line when I started to feel strange.
I told the checkout girl my problem and she wanted to take me to the back room
to lay down.  I told her I needed to lay down right away.  So I did.  Right on
the floor in the checkout line.  People were wondering what in the world was
going on with this pregnant lady on the floor ;-)  Anyway it worked, I didn't
have a seizure.  I finally got up went to the back room to lay down and got a
drink and eventually went home - rather proud of myself for handling things
the way I did.

> <snip>

> The ambulance was called and he refused treatment, I was called to come pick
> him up. <snip>

Sometimes we do that - refuse to go to the hospital - it does cost money.  If
there were no injuries, no need to go to the hospital, unless this is
something new - never had seizures before.  If he hit his head there could be
a problem.

> <snip> he wears no bracelet. <snip>

Probably a good idea to get a bracelet.  I had one and lost it, so I need to
get another ID bracelet.

> <snip>He goes completely unconscious when he has them, and has absolutly no
> memory of them or what he did before them, sometimes the whole day is gone.
> He can come out of them all the way in about 10 minutes after he has one,
> but if he is in a
> position to, he will fall into a deep sleep after about on hour of waking
> to look around, then falling back to sleep.<snip>

I go completely unconscious when I have a topic clonic seizure.  It is a very
scary feeling, kind of like fainting - but worse.  After the seizure I slowly
come out of unconsciousness.  My senses come back slowly.  So it can be
confusing, you hear people talking but you can't respond yet.  That can be
frustrating.  I need to sleep for a day or two after a seizure, and I ache so
bad.  It can take a couple weeks before I feel like myself.

> <snip>From what I've been told he
> used to wake up very violently from them, throwing punches at anyone near
> him. He no longer does that, but the look of terror is still on his face
> when he first comes too. <snip>

Yes it is terrifying, you feel horrible and you have no control.  You are
trying to wake up and it takes time.  You start to hear a gushing noise in
your head and people talking, you try to speak and you can't, you try to move
and it hurts.

> <snip>I have to reasure him that he is ok and not to try to get up and run,
> or whatever it is he thinks he has to do. <snip>

You are doing exactly the right thing.  My husband used to yell at me after a
seizure trying to get me to wake up.  This was really frustrating to me,
because I couldn't communicate.  So he knows now to talk to me in a calm
voice.

> <snip>His boss had to pin him down with his whole body last week! <snip>

I recommend you discuss seizure safety with his boss.  Pinning him down could
actually hurt your brother.  When we jerk our muscles are going back and
forth.  If someone holds us down it can do damage.  Something soft under the
head and pushing things away from him while he is seizing is the thing to do.
I think people get misinformed about how to handle seizures because of some of
the stuff they see on TV.

> <snip> He isn't on any meds now and is very leery to get on any because of
> his experience with Dilantin.<snip>

That is why he is having seizures every couple months.  Wouldn't he feel
better if he could have a seizure every blue moon?  It does affect your brain
when you have a seizure.  There are new meds out now.  I would encourage your
brother to see a doctor who will work with him to get his seizures under
control.  If Dilantin wasn't a good drug for him, then NO to Dilantin, but
there are other choices.

> <snip> His main question(he wants to get involved with your group sometime),
> as well as mine is wether
> it is really worth taking the meds. <snip>

YES.  Several years ago I started to have more than the usual amount of
seizures (for me).  So I went to a neurologist who gave me another EEG and an
MRI.  (Just in case things had changed in my case - there was no change - I
have epilepsy, we don't know why - but at least I knew there was not a
tumor).  We started on a new drug therapy, I felt terrible.  But because I
kept in touch with my doctor about how I was doing I felt like things would
get better.  He slowly took me off that drug and put me on another drug.  I
couldn't tolerate that drug at all, had an immediate bad reaction and ended up
in the emergency room for a shot to stop the side effect.  Then the doctor put
me back on the old drug I had originally taken, but continued to work with me
until it was at a therapeutic level.  I  still have my bad days when I know I
have to listen to my body, but I feel like we are coping with my seizure
disorder and instead of feeling that I had wasted my time trying the new meds
I understand that we were doing what we needed to get my seizures under
control and I'm glad I went to the neurologist.

Take care,
Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
CyberCafe - 08 Apr 2004 00:13 GMT
> Thanks you guys for "re-answering" me!!

I'm glad we didn't scare you off.

> I tend to over explain also so if
> you please, bear with me as well!

Sure.  That's what we're here for.

> To answer the first few questions, No I
> am not always with my brother when he has his seizures. The last two he
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> treatment, I was called to come pick him up. He never went to the
> hospital.

You know, I worked at a sheltered workshop for quite a few years.  We would
often call the ambulance for clients who seemed to have bad seizures or
injuries (always head injuries for some reason).  They told us to stop calling
them for every seizure or injury.  It's hard to know if the other staff
over-reacted especially when they saw lots of blood.  Anyway the staff learned
how use better judgment (we had in-service training for some of that) ,and if
a person needed a few stitches, one of the staff members drove them to the
local clinic.  Our ambulance and fire department is all volunteer and they
charge a fee per run.

> The one he had last week he was at work, this time they wouldnt
> let him refuse, and they took him in. He isnt a very good patient so
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> position to, he will fall into a deep sleep after about on hour of waking
> to look around, then falling back to sleep.

That's normal to want to sleep.  Even with the simple partial seizures and
complex partial seizures like I have had, there is a great need to sleep after
a seizure.  This isn't a 'normal' need to sleep like when you're tired at the
end of the day.  It's much more intense.

> From what I've been told he
> used to wake up very violently from them, throwing punches at anyone near
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> with him through. They are very tramatic events!! He isn't on any meds now
> and is very leery to get on any because of his experience with Dilantin.

Hey, there are a whole bunch of other medications available other than
Dilantin.  Your brother could be having a problem with denial, which happens
to a lot of people, including myself, and it can be pretty subtle stuff.
Denial is really tricky and can include things like not following doctor's
instructions, forgetting to take medications, failing to get refills, and all
sort of goofy things.

> He is a smart person but is allready slow at doing some things without
> being on medication. He hates the, as Malcome puts it, "Brain Fog". We are
> in the process of getting him medicaid, he has no insurance through his
> work, and will hopefully get him into a doctor early next week. He had
> EEG's done when his seizures first started when he was 15, and of course
> it was negative,

Yeah, the EEG's are problematic because they aren't going to catch abnormal
brain waves for most people unless the person is having seizures at the time
the EEG is done.  Most people, even those with epilepsy, will have normal
brain waves when they're not seizing.

> he only has them two or three months apart. Its like as
> time goes on he gets slower and I can just tell somehow that he is about
> to have one. I have too pay more attention next time to what it is exactly
> I pick up on. The seizure seems to clear his mind.

Sometimes I would force a seizure (I have photosensitivity so just playing
cards on the computer would force a seizure) just to get it over with.  Having
a seizure is kind of like throwing up.  You feel much better right after you
throw up, but then after a little while the nausea comes back (in my case it
was because I wasn't done having seizures).

> His main question(he
> wants to get involved with your group sometime), as well as mine is wether
> it is really worth taking the meds.

Well, he could be one of the lucky ones who gets good control with
medications.  And because there are so many medications out there, if the
first one doesn't work, there are always others to try.  I'm telling ya,
without medications I would be a basket case.  Without the medications I would
not be able to function fully, be productive (work), feel safer, feel more
comfotable in general because the symptoms or seizures are not pleasant, and
so on.  I don't think it is fair to yourself (talking about your brother), to
family, friends, co-workers, etc. to not at least try to control the seizures
if they affect any part of your daily life.  I know some people think having
seizures is okay, even folks with epilepsy, but I do not for a lot of
reasons.  I know some people worry about the side effects of meds, and I've
got to admit to having had a couple of gum surgeries because of my meds, but
that is such a minimal event to me if I can function well and safely every
day.  If medication works, it can get rid of the patient's fear (or lessen
it), give you the freedom to do things you wouldn't dare do before, can return
your rights (like driving), and so on.  You can fit in a little better
socially if you aren't having seizures in front of everyone all the time.  I
think we also have a responsibility to not shove off care taking onto somebody
else if we decide not to try to help ourselves; it's not fair to other
people.  Just my opinion.

Barb

> Well I think that about covers it,
> hopefully I didn't put anyone to sleep!!
> Sincerely
> Lialoni
 
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