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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / January 2004seizure on the subway
Have you ever been on the NYC subway when there was a delay due to a "sick passenger"? Well, I was on the #7 train today. I was correcting my ESL (English as a Stupid Language) class papers, a verb quiz on which you had to give the four other forms of the base verb. It tests your knowledge of spelling rules and the irregular verbs, like swim, swam, swum, swims, swimming, or try, tried, tried, tries, trying. It gives me an early indication of who is in need of remediation in what passes for my "advanced" ESL class. I was sitting next to a man who, like so many others in the past, was watching me as I corrected. I came to Guadalupe's paper, a disaster. She had only gotten through a third of the 25 verbs, and she didn't do very well with the ones she attempted. There was a lot of red ink from me, and then, instead of giving her an F, I wrote EX at the top of her paper. In my classes, I allow students to have as many as seven quizzes (of the 30+ that I give) excused so that they won't mess up their GPA's. This helps those who have to catch up or are a little foggy after Christmas vacation. No sooner had I written the "EX" on the top of Guadalupe's blood-stained quiz than the gentleman next to me, who had been so intently watching my activity, went into an epileptic seizure. He was like a volcano, shaking uncontrollably and foaming at the mouth. The first thing I did after I dropped my clipboard was to ask him, "What can I do?" I was hoping he'd point to a vial of pills in some pocket or other. He didn't respond. So I threw my arm around him and hugged him tight and said, "You're among friends. We're your neighbors. It's all right." Some women (not men, I noted) in the car joined me in saying things like that to him: "You're not alone. You'll be okay. We're here for you." In very little time, the man calmed down, no longer shaking or foaming, just breathing heavily. Somebody apparently found the conductor pretty quickly because at the next stop we heard the famous announcement about being delayed for a sick passenger. In a few minutes, there were three cops. One asked the man what had happened. He didn't respond, so I translated into Spanish for the cop, "Que le paso?" The man still didn't respond. I asked, "Habla espanol?" He nodded his head. He understood, but he apparently had very little to say at that point. One woman offered, "He probably doesn't remember anything." The police escorted the man off the train after taking my name. [[I guess they didn't realize that I had no connection to this man even though my arm was still around him.] My question is this: Did something about Guadalupe's paper trigger his seizure? Did he connect to some childhood memory of failing in school and being chastised or afraid? I'll never know. But I do think about the color of ink in my pen. Many women (again, not men) colleagues of mine correct in green ink rather than red. Red, they say, is an angry color. It conjures up feelings of fire, anger, hell, disaster. Green is a nurturing color of growth and cultivation. Whether my flow of red ink caused a man to have a seizure, I cannot know, but I do know that they use the color red in the bullring to ring the bull's emotional chimes. I will always wonder why the man had the fit. It could have been a complete coincidence having nothing to do with me or Guadalupe. I told my students this story. Many of them believed that the paper (whose author's name I did not reveal) could indeed have been the trigger. [Guadalupe came late, so I couldn't ask her what she thought.] I look forward to any comments from the experts. Prof. Rick Shur, LaGuardia Community College, CUNY >Many women (again, not men) colleagues of mine correct in >green ink rather than red. Red, they say, is an angry color. It conjures up >feelings of fire, anger, hell, disaster. Green is a nurturing color of >growth and cultivation. ...and 8% of men are red/green colour blind and on a biro line we can't tell the difference between whether it's red and green anyway. Red ink tends to be more saturated in colour than green, so I mark in red because it stands out from the students' blue/black writing more. The grammar/spelling underlining in MSWord demonstrates this very well as it is useless for colour blind people. Will someone please stand up and shout "YELLOW AND BLUE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE CONFUSED". Protanopia/protanomalia (yellow/blue colour blindness) affects less than 1% of the population, compared to the 8% of deuteranopis/deuteromalia. >Whether my flow of red ink caused a man to have a seizure, I cannot know, >but I do know that they use the color red in the bullring to ring the bull's >emotional chimes. And IIRC bulls are totally colour-blind and it's the waving of the rag which winds them up, not the colour. With regards to the epilepsy trigger, almost anything can develop as a trigger; being on the subway, flashing lights as the train goes past, the letters EX, or even the higher levels of pollution in such environments. (Which reminds me of Stupid parental claim No.1: On our school's allergy list, there is a child whose parents have checked him in as being allergic to water. Presumably he is a freeze-dried pupil but he looks normal to me).  SignatureMalcolm Although rare, there are a few people who actually are allergic to water. It is hard to understand, but if water touches their skin it burns them. They have to use special chemicals to clean their bodies, and of course, they have very special diet. But rest assure, one can be allergic to water. Just my 2 cents. Chris > >Many women (again, not men) colleagues of mine correct in > >green ink rather than red. Red, they say, is an angry color. It conjures up [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > being allergic to water. Presumably he is a freeze-dried pupil but he > looks normal to me). >Although rare, there are a few people who actually are allergic to water. It >is hard to understand, but if water touches their skin it burns them. They [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Chris We are 70% water anyway, so are such people allergic to themselves? They cannot such their thumbs without burning them? Blowing their nose produces burns, not shaking the last drops off produces burns?! I'll surf around to read up on this one! He doesn't have a special diet, he plays in the rain and I suspect it's *tap* water which his parents want him to avoid, either for chlorination, fluoridisation or because they are one of the millions of people who believe that pure mineral water is pure water. SignatureMalcolm I found a site in the "allergy". The condition is called "aquagenic urticaria" There is info on it at this address: http://www.dermnetnz.org/index.html I think that I saw a program on the Maury show, or some other talk show where the parents brought in their daughter who has the condition. Although this website talks about water causing a rash, the girl on the show said it felt like a sunburn, as I recall. Just like anything else, I imagine the symtoms vary from patient to patient. Thougth you might like this info. Chris > >Although rare, there are a few people who actually are allergic to water. It > >is hard to understand, but if water touches their skin it burns them. They [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > chlorination, fluoridisation or because they are one of the millions of > people who believe that pure mineral water is pure water. >I found a site in the "allergy". The condition is called "aquagenic >urticaria" There is info on it at this address: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Chris Most of the ones I dug up turned out not to be allergies to water but reactions to the materials/pollutants in it or soaps used for washing. In others, temperature seemed to be the active allergen (if it can be called that, cause getting warm isn't actually a substance). The only one I found which produced an allergic reaction on water alone was a record of a Vietnamese boy who came out in white weals on contact with water. The effect was more severe at higher temperatures. There was no response to anti-histamines, and the white reaction isn't strictly allergic. But I'll keep looking when I have the time. Certainly there are people who react in an allergic fashion on contact with warm water, so I stand corrected. But imagining it seems a nightmare though - a life without black coffee! Regards, SignatureMalcolm > >Many women (again, not men) colleagues of mine correct in > >green ink rather than red. Red, they say, is an angry color. It conjures up > >feelings of fire, anger, hell, disaster. Green is a nurturing color of > >growth and cultivation. Not all women. > ...and 8% of men are red/green colour blind and on a biro line we can't > tell the difference between whether it's red and green anyway. Red ink > tends to be more saturated in colour than green, so I mark in red > because it stands out from the students' blue/black writing more. Quite. > The grammar/spelling underlining in MSWord demonstrates this very well > as it is useless for colour blind people. Will someone please stand up > and shout "YELLOW AND BLUE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE CONFUSED". But we can change the colours used for underlinings in Word ... I thought. > (Which reminds me of Stupid parental claim No.1: On our school's > allergy list, there is a child whose parents have checked him in as > being allergic to water. Presumably he is a freeze-dried pupil but he > looks normal to me). A few years ago a woman was brought to England from USA reportedly suffering from an allergy to EVERYTHING. It said. There was a fashion once, it's slowed down. Then there was the flesh eating something-or-other. I was chided recently by a son who said that they would be late for a meal because his daughter had to keep up her blood sugar level. When he was young children didn't have blood sugar, if we were going to be late for a visit to Grandma and a child was hungry it had a pice of fruit, not a whole meal. And I keep being asked for my honey to prevent hay fever. It's no use explaining why it can't work ... But what do we know? Me? I have cancer and I put my faith into things tested by peer review and made by Men in White Coats. And I'm still here. Mary >> The grammar/spelling underlining in MSWord demonstrates this very well >> as it is useless for colour blind people. Will someone please stand up >> and shout "YELLOW AND BLUE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE CONFUSED". > >But we can change the colours used for underlinings in Word ... I thought. I've been told that but... i) I haven't found out how to do it, only how to alter the system colours, or turn underlining off. Can anyone explain how to select blue/orange for spelling/grammar squiggles? ii) as I use WordPerfect it doesn't bother me at home. iii) even if it's possible, I don't want to have to change the colours on everyone's computer and back every time I use them. As a teacher I inevitably use lots of machines in lots of places, and have to check all the underlined words to see whether they are typos or merely Word telling me my sentences are too long or my grammar isn't American! I give my students a list of acceptable colours - blue, yellow, red, white, black which they can use on multiple graphs and if they lose a mark because they don't adhere to the rules then tough! If they argue I threaten them with the DDA :) Regards, SignatureMalcolm > iii) even if it's possible, I don't want to have to change the colours > on everyone's computer and back every time I use them. As a teacher I > inevitably use lots of machines in lots of places, and have to check all > the underlined words to see whether they are typos or merely Word > telling me my sentences are too long or my grammar isn't American! Those grammar instructions are a hoot! Mary >> iii) even if it's possible, I don't want to have to change the colours >> on everyone's computer and back every time I use them. As a teacher I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Mary Sometimes they are worth reading for fun, but never are they worth paying attention to. (WARNING: You have ended your sentence with a preposition. A more correct phrase would be "never are they a thing to which it is worth paying attention.") SignatureMalcolm > >Those grammar instructions are a hoot! > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > correct phrase would be "never are they a thing to which it is worth > paying attention.") See what I mean? That's not only a hoot but difficult to understand - and I'm a pedant! Mary >> Sometimes they are worth reading for fun, but never are they worth >> paying attention to. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Mary Sorry Mary, I will admit that *I* wrote that one; I use WordPerfect which doesn't have a grammar check! Technically, however, the warning is valid and the proposed alternative is grammatically correct. I am a grammatical pedant and will correct pupils' apostrophes, split infinitives, "should/would/could of", punctuation and incorrect spelling of separate and fluorescent. I keep the red biro firms in business. SignatureMalcolm > >> Sometimes they are worth reading for fun, but never are they worth > >> paying attention to. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > infinitives, "should/would/could of", punctuation and incorrect spelling > of separate and fluorescent. I keep the red biro firms in business. Hurrah! But: a) do your pupils learn from your corrections? b) do your colleagues not say that you shouldn't correct them because it undermines their self-confidence? That's what my husband had to contend with. Oops - a preposition at the end of a sentence ... sorry. I'll go outside and immediately have myself whipped. Mary >But: > >a) do your pupils learn from your corrections? I doubt it. They look at the mark and that's all. >b) do your colleagues not say that you shouldn't correct them because it >undermines their self-confidence? Yes. Stuff them - am I preparing them for a mollycoddle world or am I teaching them science in the real world? >That's what my husband had to contend with. > >Oops - a preposition at the end of a sentence ... sorry. I'll go outside and >immediately have myself whipped. I'll meet you by the bike sheds. SignatureMalcolm > >But: > > > >a) do your pupils learn from your corrections? > > I doubt it. They look at the mark and that's all. So there's not much point - or do you hope that it's worth it if only one pupil learns something? I would. > >b) do your colleagues not say that you shouldn't correct them because it > >undermines their self-confidence? > > Yes. Stuff them - am I preparing them for a mollycoddle world or am I > teaching them science in the real world? You mean you teach science and still expect them to spell and express themselves grammatically? <feel faint> Is that allowed? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <looks round> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I believe that every lesson should be an English lesson - in British schools. Yes, even when the lesson is nominally to teach another language. But I'm a lone voice. Perhaps half of a duet now? > >That's what my husband had to contend with. > > > >Oops - a preposition at the end of a sentence ... sorry. I'll go outside and > >immediately have myself whipped. > > I'll meet you by the bike sheds. I'll take my puncture outfit ... Mary >So there's not much point - or do you hope that it's worth it if only one >pupil learns something? > >I would. I run a drugs/drink/smoking topic and put in a lot of effort knowing that by the time they're 16 almost every one of the kids I teach will have been enticed to "just try one, it can't do any harm." So am I wasting my time? No. If my teaching dissuades just *ONE* pupil from starting smoking or taking drugs, then I shall have achieved something. The same goes for marking their English and, indeed, teaching them Science. They have no need to know 95% of the material I teach them, but if I raise a spark of interest which lasts a lifetime, my work will not have been wasted. >> >b) do your colleagues not say that you shouldn't correct them because it >> >undermines their self-confidence? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Is that allowed? I sometimes wonder whether I drew the short straw by choosing Science - I end up having to teach art, maths and English as well, as part of my subject. The English teachers don't teach science, etc. :( But all these are necessary for performing good quality science, and our country's stupid National Curriculum requires maths skills in Science before they are covered in Maths. So who end up teaching it? Yes, you guessed it, the Science teachers. >> I'll meet you by the bike sheds. > >I'll take my puncture outfit ... I'll bring the video-cam. SignatureMalcolm > >So there's not much point - or do you hope that it's worth it if only one > >pupil learns something? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > from starting smoking or taking drugs, then I shall have achieved > something. As I said, I would. > The same goes for marking their English and, indeed, teaching them > Science. They have no need to know 95% of the material I teach them, but > if I raise a spark of interest which lasts a lifetime, my work will not > have been wasted. I agree. > >You mean you teach science and still expect them to spell and express > >themselves grammatically? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I end up having to teach art, maths and English as well, as part of my > subject. The English teachers don't teach science, etc. :( No. That's because most of them can't express themselves well in English. There are exceptions. > But all these are necessary for performing good quality science, and our > country's stupid National Curriculum requires maths skills in Science > before they are covered in Maths. So who end up teaching it? Yes, you > guessed it, the Science teachers. That's disgraceful. I do know that there's a great shortage of Maths teachers, a daughter in law has given up her career in accountancy (supported by a degree in the subject, she wasn't playing at it) to train to be a Maths teacher. She was tempted by the offer of a year at Cambridge University. > >> I'll meet you by the bike sheds. > > > >I'll take my puncture outfit ... > > I'll bring the video-cam. No good for me, I don't have a television. Perhaps I'll re-think the puncture outfit ... Mary G. Why don't you turn the Option OFF, (with). ?? > >> iii) even if it's possible, I don't want to have to change the colours > >> on everyone's computer and back every time I use them. As a teacher I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Malcolm > G. Why don't you turn the Option OFF, (with). ?? Other people infuriatingly keep turning it back on on their computers after I've used them, and some SEN pupils work on laptops in lessons which are set up with the option on. If I could change the respective colours they might not mind. I think it shows a great lack of forethought on the part of MS to choose colours which are not only unhelpful but even confusing to a considerable proportion of the population. Maybe I can get them for sex discrimination as colour blindness has a large gender component? SignatureMalcolm > >But we can change the colours used for underlinings in Word ... I thought. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > colours, or turn underlining off. Can anyone explain how to select > blue/orange for spelling/grammar squiggles? I have looked and looked and can't find a way. I was sure I'd seen instructions for doing it, sorry! Mary > Have you ever been on the NYC subway when there was a delay due to a "sick > passenger"? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > He was like a volcano, shaking uncontrollably and foaming at the mouth. **** It's rare that we 'foam at the mouth', but it he had been drinking and was using medication for seizures, those 2 don't mix and might have aggravated his feelings. Alternatively whatever had happened to him earlier that day might have Lowered his Seizure Threshold (the level where we're more prone to have a seizure) and made it more likely that he might have one. That could be Irrespective of What happened near him, Colours nearby or on paper he likely couldn't see if his Eyesight was already becoming blurred, etc. LIKELY the CROWD (if there was one) on the Subway and the overheating would make him more uncomfortable than whatever you thought of your student's term paper. / > The first thing I did after I dropped my clipboard was to ask him, "What can > I do?" I was hoping he'd point to a vial of pills in some pocket or other. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In very little time, the man calmed down, no longer shaking or foaming, just > breathing heavily. *** By accident or luck you did some of the Right things anyway wrt. First Aid for seizures. Since some of the types we're 'away' and don't know what's happening around us or what others are saying anyway, talking calmly and in his native Language likely helped to calm him down and bring him Out of the seizure with less Trauma than might otherwise be the case (if like above the Subway were crowded). The Last thing we need (apparently) is a Crowd around us as we 'come back'. Well Done !! / > Somebody apparently found the conductor pretty quickly because at the next > stop we heard the famous announcement about being delayed for a sick [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > feelings of fire, anger, hell, disaster. Green is a nurturing color of > growth and cultivation. ***G** As I said above. NO. Likely if the Subway Lights in the car had Flickered on and off several times, OR (sometimes happens here in Toronto), if the Subway goes Outdoors and gets a Stroke effect from Sunlight flashing through Trees, OR underground, subway tunnel lights Flashing in through the side windows, *some of us can get an Aura and possibly a stronger seizure *IF we were over tired or more prone at that particular time. It's NOT related to what Guadalupe's Paper. DON"T DEDUCT POINTS from her for that. It's not related OR her fault... And I doubt that any of the colours (above and below) had any effect. Depending on the seizure type, if we get Blurry vision first as part of the aura or onset, we don't see or recall the Colours of anything anyway. I'd like to sit near YOU next time I travel on the (Toronto) Subway. You did Well!! for someone who hasn't encountered these before (?). Well done. /G. > Whether my flow of red ink caused a man to have a seizure, I cannot know, > but I do know that they use the color red in the bullring to ring the bull's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Prof. Rick Shur, LaGuardia Community College, CUNY > Have you ever been on the NYC subway when there was a delay due to a "sick > passenger"? G: I found it. This is the First Aid for Seizure Chart provided by Epilepsy Idaho website maintained by one of our regular posters. (Julie Walton). This has more detail on various types of first aid that work. (There's a newer chart too, available within the Idaho Website (clickable from within the First Aid chart?) that also now includes First Aid in Water (ie. Swimming or Boating). ) But THIS is the chart I wanted earlier---> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure2.htm . G.R > <snipping> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > seizure? Did he connect to some childhood memory of failing in school and > being chastised or afraid? This is just speculation, but the name Guadalupe leads me to believe that she is Hispanic and that Spanish is her first language. You indicated that the man who had the seizure was also Hispanic Spanish-speaking. That could be reason enough for him to strongly identify with her and your last sentence there may be right-on. He probably didn't know that it was an ESL course, but only a school paper that was being severely graded down and, while you know that "EX" means excused, he might have thought that it meant Exspelled or ? The internal emotions might have been too much for him to handle. Just a speculation! Bob Hello Prof. Shur, welcome to our newsgroup. First of all I have never been on a NYC subway. I have never been on a subway or to NYC, and I grew up in a very small town. I have had problems with traveling in the past, so the thought of going to NYC and riding on a subway is something with which I personally do not feel comfortable. Not because I'm afraid of the people, but because I know how my body has reacted in the past. To give you an idea of some of my personal problems with seizures, here are a few examples: 1. I went to Disneyland with my family and started to have dejavu feelings (evidently simple partial seizures) when I was in the first building - the Tiki Hut - it had flashing lights. The rest of the day I went through the long lines wondering if the grand mal (tonic clonic) seizure would be next. Needless to say, this ruined our vacation. 2. We flew to Portland for a quick vacation with our friends to the Oregon Coast. I found myself exhausted from the trip. On our return flight we sat in the back of the plane and I got strange feelings in my stomach, my senses were exaggerated. The noise of the plane sounded deafening. I had to put my hands over my ears and hope that I wouldn't have a tonic clonic seizure. After the plane landed we waited to get off the plane. I was shaking, the stewards got us a wheel chair and a drink of water and told me the next time I flew I should ask to get on first and sit in the front of the plane. 3. My husband drove me to enjoy a college basketball tournament in Reno, Nevada. The first day I was fine. I tried to stay away from the flashing lights (not an easy thing to do in Nevada). The second day I had a problem as soon as we got to the tournament. Thanks to the MSG in the food we ate, I started to have cramps. The MSG triggered irritable bowel syndrome (not something related to epilepsy). I took my medication to stop the cramps, but the IBS triggered a simple partial seizure which could have led to a tonic clonic seizure. I had my husband take me to the first aid room, they took me to a quiet place in the building, monitored my vital signs and finally I started to recover. They suggested I leave, but I talked them into letting me stay. 4. My sister and I drove to Arizona to take care of my parents. On our return to Idaho we stopped in Utah at a inexpensive motel. The people in the room next to us were yelling and cussing and making it rather hard to sleep. I was stressed from taking care of parents and then I couldn't sleep. I must have eaten something with MSG because my IBS kicked in. After visiting the rest room I returned to my bed and the next thing I knew my sister was telling me that I had a seizure. We have to live our life one day at a time and listen to our bodies. My friends know that if I'm not feeling well, I won't be driving. I am very careful about what I eat now, and if a crowd seems too loud, I don't stick around. When I feel like I need to rest, I do. I appreciate that you tried to assist the passenger sitting next to you. Speaking calmly to him and letting him know you were there was a very good idea. We have to be careful not to hold someone down during a seizure. My husband held onto one of my arms once trying to help me during a seizure and my shoulder was dislocated. He continues to learn what not to do from every seizure experience. The following is a list of what to do and what not to do when someone has a tonic clonic seizure, this list comes from the Epilepsy Foundation: WHAT TO DO: Look for medical identification. Protect from nearby hazards. Loosen ties or shirt collars. Protect head from injury. Turn on side to keep airway clear unless injury exists. Reassure as consciousness returns. If single seizure lasts less than 5 minutes, ask if hospital evaluation wanted. If multiple seizures, or if one seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes, call on ambulance. If person is pregnant, injured, or diabetic, call for aid at once. WHAT NOT TO DO: Don't put any hard implement in the mouth. Don't try to hold tongue. It can't be swallowed. Don't try to give liquids during or just after seizure. Don't use artificial respiration unless breathing is absent after muscle jerks subside, or unless water has been inhaled. Don't restrain. It could be that the man sitting next to you had other factors that triggered his seizure. Family life can be stressful - stress is a trigger. The noise of the subway, the crowd, the heat, flashing lights (does the subway simulate flashing when it goes from one spot to the next where there is an opening - the way sunlight flashes through leaves of a tree when traveling in a car) all could have contributed. As I finish this message it occurs to me that you may find numerous english/spelling errors. So in my defense, be aware that I have been sick for a week with a sinus infection and I am now going back to bed. ;-) Thank you for your concern about this man and for wanting to educate yourself about seizure disorders. Take care, Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho http://www.epilepsyidaho.org > Have you ever been on the NYC subway when there was a delay due to a "sick > passenger"? [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Prof. Rick Shur, LaGuardia Community College, CUNY >Subject: seizure on the subway >From: "Rick Shur" rickshur@earthlink.net [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > >Prof. Rick Shur, LaGuardia Community College, CUNY the paper and ink anad words have nothing to do with causing a seizure |
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