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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / December 2003

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Introduction and a question

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SimonP - 04 Dec 2003 12:53 GMT
I have suffered from epilepsy for about 19 years; I was diagnosed soon
after my 16th birthday.  My first attack was little more than a black
out while pushing a moped along the road; the 2nd attack included
convulsions this was on September 9th.  It was at this stage I was
diagnosed, I was prescribed 300mg of Phenytoin daily, lost my driving
licence for 2 years (though I didn't realise I had to notify the DVLA
and spent the 2 years, not driving, waiting for them to contact me,
thinking the hospital would contact them).
There are a number of suspected triggers including – alcohol,
cannabis, extreme stress, a combination of lack of sleep with poor
eating, etc.
The biggest hurdle I found was the diagnosis – I mean how could I be
epileptic??  This perception was not helped by the fact I was bought
up in Chalfont St. Peter, location of the National Society for
Epilepsy.  At the time (I don't know about now) it was also a
residential home for people with severe cases, to the extent that most
seemed (from the perspective of a growing lad) mentally handicapped.
Even now I sometimes look at it as a chink in my amour, though it does
depend on the current mood.
I've done a bit of reading recently and found that all the terminology
has changed.  I'll try and describe my attacks as best as I can using
the news terms and a description.  Generally my attacks are Tonic
Clonic, falling to the ground then convulsing anywhere from a few
seconds to several minutes.  After I appear to be regaining
consciousness I often have what I can best describe as a complex
partial, though everything I've read suggests a partial will precede
the tonic clonic.  The partial involves me getting up and walking
about (yes I've been known to take my clothes off also), mainly trying
to leave the area where I had the convulsions.  Apparently I can get
very abusive and although not inherently violent I will get angry at
obstacles, whether human or otherwise.  I have no conscious control
over my actions or strength and have been told even during these
episodes I am a lot stronger than normal.  3 occasions come to mind –
1 where I nearly broke one of my wife's ribs pushing her out of my
way, 1 where I regained consciousness walking down the pavement in my
socks with a newspaper in my hand (it was the Mirror, which I've never
bought!) returning home from the local garage or shops and finally
when I was strapped to a bed in hospital apparently to stop me going
walkabout, they finally let me go when I had come round, undone all
the straps and disconnected all the leads (drip, pulse monitor),
apparently my last words before being put in the ambulance were asking
where my cigarettes were and my 1st comprehensible, civil words later
were asking to go for a cigarette.
Fortunately my fits (so much for PC!!) are not that common the last
problems arising when my drugs fell below the bottom of the range
(with the doctors saying everything is fine a few weeks prior to the
episode where I ended up in hospital).  After that my medication was
reviewed and I currently take 600mg of Phenytoin a day.  A new doctor
started at my GP's and he showed a real interest in my case, he
transferred me to Epanutin capsules and kept a regular check on me,
then we moved.
My new doctors have been less than interested – I have had to ask for
my annual blood test 2 out of 3 years, last year the results never
came back and I am guilty as the next as I didn't chase them, I asked
the nurse when I went in for my test this year.  She phoned the lab
while I was there and found out last years – 7.5! (The range is
10-20!)
My next results are due back on Tuesday and although I've lost some
weight since then I can't really see them being within range.
AIUI – 600mg is the top daily dose for Phenytoin, I don't want to OD
on it but I also don't want to be a walking time-bomb.  Does anyone
fancy guessing what I'm likely to be given instead of/as well as?

TIA
--
Simon
gaross - 04 Dec 2003 21:25 GMT
 Comments at **s below.   And welcome to a Useful Newsgroup.
> I have suffered from epilepsy for about 19 years; I was diagnosed soon
> after my 16th birthday.  My first attack was little more than a black
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and spent the 2 years, not driving, waiting for them to contact me,
> thinking the hospital would contact them).
*** I think Phenytoin is the same or similar to Dilantin.  It's one of the
first ones they'll try for what's now called Complex Partial Seizures (Tonic
Clonic was the older name?).  If you do any newsgroup or google search,
check symptoms of C.P. (spelled out) to what you describe below. You could
also look at Temporal Lobe Seizures, but unless the Dr. has said that's
where your's were, there could be more than one source of that szr. type.
(TLE is also an older name for CP seizures.)
  Those symptoms were like mine before I was controlled.

> There are a number of suspected triggers including - alcohol,
> cannabis, extreme stress, a combination of lack of sleep with poor
> eating, etc.
*** Can't speak for cannabis, but stress will aggravate some of our seizure
types, lack of sleep and poor appetite can interfere also.   **Alcohol
should be on an advisory that comes with the pills. I'm pretty sure
Phenytoin is similar to several other Anti-Ep Drugs that are purged more
quickly by alcohol use.  (I can use Mild amounts, but really restrict total
use to once or twice a year.  I haven't had Any now since about 1997.) **/

> The biggest hurdle I found was the diagnosis - I mean how could I be
> epileptic??  This perception was not helped by the fact I was bought
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Even now I sometimes look at it as a chink in my amour, though it does
> depend on the current mood.

> I've done a bit of reading recently and found that all the terminology
> has changed.   (***G See comments I put at top.)
 I'll try and describe my attacks as best as I can using
> the news terms and a description.  Generally my attacks are Tonic
> Clonic, falling to the ground then convulsing anywhere from a few
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> where my cigarettes were and my 1st comprehensible, civil words later
> were asking to go for a cigarette.
*** G.  All of above you'll find as symptoms under descriptions for Complex
Partial Seizures, possibly other types, if others here recognize those too.
But I'd bet first on C.P. (Temporal Lobe) Seizures. /

> Fortunately my fits (so much for PC!!) are not that common the last
> problems arising when my drugs fell below the bottom of the range
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> while I was there and found out last years - 7.5! (The range is
> 10-20!)
*** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need, show to
the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
have the Med. Scripts and can make sure there are no conflicts (some cold
meds. use alcohol or other chemicals that could react).
  Usually Phenytoin is used first since it's an older med. that is better
studied, the Research costs have been recovered, so they're also cheaper *if
they work for you.   There are *lots of other AEDs available.  If you have
trouble maintaining control with this one, it just means that you'll move on
to another of about 6-8 that can be used.  (I currently use *2 and haven't
had a seizure since *1998.  I was told that for my type of (right) Temporal
Lobe seizures that 'one to two seizures per month might be a Hoped-For
Target!' in 1993 when first diagnosed.)

  Most of these turn out to Not be as serious as we first fear they will
be.  Try not to beat yourself up over this and let the Dr. do their job.  If
they prescribe something else or a change in dose, try to be as Close to the
schedule of dosing as they prescribe.  Many of these depend on xx mg. taken
12 hours apart or 24 hours apart, to get a Flat Line Blood level.   The
closer you can follow the dosing to compliance, the more meaningful any
bloodwork they do, or control you achieve will be.
   Others here will have comments later, when they come online.   Good
Luck.  G.R.

> My next results are due back on Tuesday and although I've lost some
> weight since then I can't really see them being within range.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> Simon
Julie - 04 Dec 2003 21:58 GMT
Hi Gordon.
<snip>*** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need, show
to

> the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
> have the Med. Scripts and can make sure there are no conflicts (some cold
> meds. use alcohol or other chemicals that could react).<snip>

I do recall many years ago having a discussion with my doctor about what to do
when I have a cold and he told me not to take the over the counter drugs.  I
said, but I get all stuffy and have to blow my nose.  He said, other people
shouldn't be upset if I have to blow my nose.  In other words it was better to
live with that, than to suffer the consequences that come with combining the
AEDs and the OTC drugs.

Just a thought.
Julie
gaross - 05 Dec 2003 00:19 GMT
 And Simon should Also look at (and bookmark) Julie's Idaho Website, that
has useful General information on Epilepsy Issues, too.
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

  The First Aid for seizures page is worth printing if you have family or
friends who don't know what to do, Plus others earlier today were asking
about Symptoms of Temporal Lobe (Complex Partial) seizures.   Some of those
are included in the description of the symptoms of each type.

   A second site that has a Medications Glossary is (I THINK) listed in
there, or (I also think) it's at http://efa.org  as the Main Site (The Ep.
Foundation of America main site.)  There's a medications glossary, too,  if
your pharmacist didn't give you a printout for a particular pill.   Most of
the names are similar between UK/ Europe and North America. I found it
accurate wrt. the 4 medications I've used over last 6-7 years.  G./

> Hi Gordon.
> <snip>*** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need,
show to
> > the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
> > have the Med. Scripts and can make sure there are no conflicts (some cold
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Just a thought.
> Julie

G.  My wife has one of those Colds like they use on the 'Decongestant
Stuffed-up Nose' commercials. I'm trying to keep her at the other side of
the House from me... :-<   I've had about *2 colds in the last 10 years
since I started using AEDs. Whether it's AEDs that help or avoiding
carriers, I don't know./
SimonP - 05 Dec 2003 10:14 GMT
Julie <IDefiweb@netscape.net> wrote in article
<3FCFB0D8.5BF7749B@netscape.net>...
> Hi Gordon.
> <snip>*** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need, show
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> live with that, than to suffer the consequences that come with combining the
> AEDs and the OTC drugs.

I found that out the hard way in the early years, I'm also not too
convinced that aspirin and paracetomel don't have a negative affect
(though I could be wrong).  A previous doctor prescribed Ibuprofen for
a bad knee once so I have stuck to them for pain killers and even then
I need to be in a lot of pain.  As for cold remedies, I dose myself up
with cups of honey (teaspoon) and lemon (covering the honey) and hot
water (to the top).

--.
Cheers
Simon
Pablo - 06 Dec 2003 09:32 GMT
> > the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
> > have the Med. Scripts and can make sure there are no conflicts (some cold
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Just a thought.
> Julie

g'day julie,
one doctor once told me when i saw him about a cold that i had a choice. i
could either rest up and drink plenty of fluids and my cold would last seven
days, or, i could take anti-biotics or some OTC nostrum and the cold would
only last a week.
pablo
Mary Fisher - 06 Dec 2003 10:08 GMT
> g'day julie,
> one doctor once told me when i saw him about a cold that i had a choice. i
> could either rest up and drink plenty of fluids and my cold would last seven
> days, or, i could take anti-biotics or some OTC nostrum and the cold would
> only last a week.
> pablo

That's what I always told my children.

Don't now how I knew, I don't get urtis but they believed me and it always
worked.

Mary
SimonP - 05 Dec 2003 10:13 GMT
gaross <gaross@rogers.com> wrote in article
<kDNzb.106293$ZmO.45657@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
>   Comments at **s below.   And welcome to a Useful Newsgroup.

Thanks, I guess I'm worried about the results of the test because of
what happened last time my levels dropped (~7 years ago), along with
the prospect of different/additional drugs.  This started me looking
up info and having discovered Usenet in those years I had a nosey
around the support groups and stumbled upon you lot ;-)

> *** I think Phenytoin is the same or similar to Dilantin.  

From what I've read it is the same.

<snip>
> > There are a number of suspected triggers including - alcohol,
> > cannabis, extreme stress, a combination of lack of sleep with poor
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> quickly by alcohol use.  (I can use Mild amounts, but really restrict total
> use to once or twice a year.  I haven't had Any now since about 1997.) **/

The cannabis was in the dime and distant past, a combination of being
told not to drink and mid teen's experimentation…the morning after
answered any questions I had.  As for drink, I was diagnosed at 16 and
finally came fully to terms with it (! Ha, nearly 20 years later and I
don't think I've fully come to terms with it) 5 years later.  Or put
another way, I accepted the situation and reached an age where I made
a few decisions – I could go out with the lads drink, burn the candle
at both ends, etc and run the risk of never stabilising my fits or
play by the rules and do pretty much the same as anyone else.  I chose
the later and haven't had a drink since just before my 21st birthday,
baring the odd hiccup that I've mentioned, I now the designated driver
which is good – I don't drink, no-one with me has to worry about D&D.

> *** G.  All of above you'll find as symptoms under descriptions for Complex
> Partial Seizures, possibly other types, if others here recognize those too.
> But I'd bet first on C.P. (Temporal Lobe) Seizures. /

I had understood the falling and convulsions to be TC and the
wander-lust to be the CP and each distinct from the other.

> *** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need, show to
> the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
> have the Med. Scripts and can make sure there are no conflicts (some cold
> meds. use alcohol or other chemicals that could react).

Oh, tell me about cold remedies!!  
<see my response to Julie on this>

>    Usually Phenytoin is used first since it's an older med. that is better
> studied, the Research costs have been recovered, so they're also cheaper *if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Lobe seizures that 'one to two seizures per month might be a Hoped-For
> Target!' in 1993 when first diagnosed.)

That I guess is my concern.  While the levels are good the control is
fine, the last time the levels dropped the control dropped and I don't
want that situation again.  I'm equally concerned that a change of
drugs will include a period of adjustment while the levels are got
right.

>    Most of these turn out to Not be as serious as we first fear they will
> be.  Try not to beat yourself up over this and let the Dr. do their job.

It is just a worry; I know that sitting around chewing my knuckles
will if anything do more harm than good.  Then results are due next
Tuesday then I'll have to make an appointment, to start the Dr.
working.  In the meantime its good to be able to get it off my chest
with others that know exactly where I'm coming from – although all my
family and friends are fantastic, their perspective will always be
slightly different.

>  If
> they prescribe something else or a change in dose, try to be as Close to the
> schedule of dosing as they prescribe.  Many of these depend on xx mg. taken
> 12 hours apart or 24 hours apart, to get a Flat Line Blood level.   The
> closer you can follow the dosing to compliance, the more meaningful any
> bloodwork they do, or control you achieve will be.

Yep, appreciate that – I spent the 1st few years fighting all that for
all the good it did me.

>     Others here will have comments later, when they come online.   Good
> Luck.  G.R.

Many thanks for your comments and for the links
I've had a breif look and bookmarked them.  There are obviously
US-centric, not that that diminishes from the information, just some
of it isn't relevant to the UK and Europe (eg driving laws, rules
about joining services, etc.).  I have come across a couple of UK
based sites for anyone that might be interested:

http://www.epilepsynse.org.uk/
http://epilepsy.org.uk/

Signature

cheers
Simon

gaross - 05 Dec 2003 16:17 GMT
> gaross <> wrote in article
> > >   Comments at **s below.   And welcome to a Useful Newsgroup.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> I had understood the falling and convulsions to be TC and the
> wander-lust to be the CP and each distinct from the other.
*** I just left this while I look around.  Mine were first called TC, but
within about 2 years (when I moved from Dilantin to Tegretol CR, the same
Dr. told me that the symptoms and tests? suggested mine were closer to CP.
(I *think you can have a TC without losing consciousness, but a CP you
normally drop on the spot when it Generalizes across other parts of the
brain.) /

> > *** G. Any Cold Medicine, upset stomach stuff, etc. you might need, show to
> > the Same pharmacist (Chemist) who fills any of your AED prescriptions.  They
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> want that situation again.  I'm equally concerned that a change of
> drugs will include a period of adjustment while the levels are got right.

***  You might find Dilantin is being purged faster as your level of
exercise, body weight, digestion rate etc. varys during its use.   Tegretol
(for one) has a Time Released version (XR or CR) that is designed for slow
release after you take it, so by taking it each AM or AM and PM, you get an
almost Constant Blood level. I found my control on Dilantin REALLY Erratic,
from 'normal' to waking up in Emerg. w.o. any Aura or warning at all.  I get
enough of an Aura with Tegretol CR that I can move away myself to somewhere
safe to sit down, and let the aura pass. Often it won't proceed from there.
****
  I found with Dilantin, **And being newly diagnosed, that I was beat up
and beating Myself up, for Having seizures, like I should just be able to
**SNAP OUT OF IT**.    People around me couldn't understand why I couldn't
do that...  Since I'd move from 'Normal' to 'Twilight Zone' in  seconds to
minutes, I often didn't realize at first that an Aura was the start of a
seizure.
  Some of the later ones, I didn't go through the Simple Partial (Aura)
phase, and just went straight into the CP phase.   That's what some that you
described earlier were starting to sound like.  G./

> It is just a worry; I know that sitting around chewing my knuckles
> will if anything do more harm than good.  Then results are due next
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> cheers
> Simon

*G* Those are the first links I've ever seen published in the UK.
  The UK people support epilepsy group was destroyed about 1999 by a
'webmaster' of all chronic health groups, who thought that being a
'webmaster' (he called himself) meant he could resell poster's addresses to
Trash Sites- he had a Robot, culling all uk Chronic Health sites. If you've
looked at it you probably see that it has about *10 posts a fortnight still
(I never resubscribed since last Spring when it was that active).  In 1998
it had 30+ posts a night, like this one had.
 Most of the people who once posted there, at that time, are 'over here'
since this is an International Site.  It tends to get newer mail added
around the clock as other timezones come on, from Europe to N.America to
Australia, and occasionally in Asia.  G./
Mary Fisher - 05 Dec 2003 20:12 GMT
>    The UK people support epilepsy group was destroyed about 1999 by a
> 'webmaster' of all chronic health groups, who thought that being a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> (I never resubscribed since last Spring when it was that active).  In 1998
> it had 30+ posts a night, like this one had.

Isn't there any way we could start a new one?

Mary
gaross - 05 Dec 2003 22:45 GMT
Probably, if you know any 'geeks', or someone at a newspaper there.  (Howdy
knows some 'geeks' if they're not away at college.)*Or enough of you could
try Reclaim uk.people.support.epilepsy for pwe. Last, if necessary, a new
one could be called Bureau of PWE (likely spelled out), in case there are
enough Pythonesques around. (I found both these groups originally on Win.95
with the Groups Search and just the name 'epilepsy' to look for.)
   There are lots of people here who might have questions, politics of
healthcare, etc. interests Specific to the UK, but to general concerns too,
where some of the therapies or medications might differ.
   I write about 3-4 people I met over there in 1998 still.   G.

> >    The UK people support epilepsy group was destroyed about 1999 by a
> > 'webmaster' of all chronic health groups, who thought that being a
> > 'webmaster' (he called himself) meant he could resell poster's addresses
to
> > Trash Sites- he had a Robot, culling all uk Chronic Health sites. If
you've
> > looked at it you probably see that it has about *10 posts a fortnight
still
> > (I never resubscribed since last Spring when it was that active).  In 1998
> > it had 30+ posts a night, like this one had.
>
> Isn't there any way we could start a new one?
> Mary
Mary Fisher - 05 Dec 2003 20:10 GMT
> That I guess is my concern.  While the levels are good the control is
> fine, the last time the levels dropped the control dropped and I don't
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> It is just a worry; I know that sitting around chewing my knuckles
> will if anything do more harm than good.

Then stop chewing! You know it makes sense :-)

> Then results are due next
> Tuesday then I'll have to make an appointment, to start the Dr.
> working.  In the meantime its good to be able to get it off my chest
> with others that know exactly where I'm coming from ? although all my
> family and friends are fantastic, their perspective will always be
> slightly different.

That's what the group's for.

Mary
in UK
Mary Fisher - 05 Dec 2003 20:12 GMT
>   It's one of the
> first ones they'll try for what's now called Complex Partial Seizures (Tonic
> Clonic was the older name?).

In UK, as far as I know, we're not usually given the detailed names of our
fits, unless we ask of course. We're just told we had a grand mal, a petit
mal or an absence seizure.

> > The biggest hurdle I found was the diagnosis - I mean how could I be
> > epileptic??
Why not?

It can happen to the best of people :-)

Mary
gaross - 05 Dec 2003 22:55 GMT
> >   It's one of the
> > first ones they'll try for what's now called Complex Partial Seizures
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> fits, unless we ask of course. We're just told we had a grand mal, a petit
> mal or an absence seizure.
*** Those sound similar to what they use in North America.  The only other
one (other than the Children's ones?)  that is commonly around here, is the
one called Complex Partial.   That one triggers in a Partial area (one
usually) of the brain but then can Generalize or spread in a Complex fashion
to include other areas.   Those usually end in unconsciousness, if not
controlled.
   I *think that Grand Mal on your list is the only other one that can end
in unconsciousness.
 As I got nearer to control for C.P. type, I only had absences (which I
thought were grouped with petit mals?)    I might be mixing that latter one
up with Simple Partials (which is what the Drs. call the Aura alone?).
   That was where I found Julie's Idaho First Aid for seizures chart handy,
since it describes some of the behaviours of about 4 of the types, as well
as what to do (to a caregiver) to ease the recovery from each of the types.
/ G.

> > > The biggest hurdle I found was the diagnosis - I mean how could I be
> > > epileptic??
> Why not?
>
> It can happen to the best of people :-)
> Mary
Paul Oldham - 06 Dec 2003 16:54 GMT
> In UK, as far as I know, we're not usually given the detailed names of our
> fits, unless we ask of course. We're just told we had a grand mal, a petit
> mal or an absence seizure.

You must be seeing an old fashioned doctor: even a decade ago my seizure was
described to me as "tonic-clonic, what used to be called grand mal".

Signature

Paul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK
http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/

SimonP - 11 Dec 2003 16:54 GMT
Mary Fisher <someone.else@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in article
<bqqoub$24ki5g$1@ID-182904.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > >    Most of these turn out to Not be as serious as we first fear they
> will
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Then stop chewing! You know it makes sense :-)

Yes, I do, it's also the advice I give out all the time – "OK, just
answer me this what good will worrying do?  By not worrying you'll
have a clearer perspective….etc."

> > Then results are due next
> > Tuesday then I'll have to make an appointment, to start the Dr.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> That's what the group's for.

And surprisingly good it is too.  After my last postings and the
responses to them, plus all the other threads, my focus has come back
again as good as ever.

Thanks to all who have contributed to, not just this thread but the NG
as a whole.

<snipped from one of Mary's other responses>
> > > The biggest hurdle I found was the diagnosis - I mean how could I be
> > > epileptic??
> Why not?

> It can happen to the best of people :-)

Yes, I realise that, the person always mentioned to me was Julius
Caesar, but in the few weeks I've know of this NG there are better
examples closer to home.  My original statement was about my feelings
when I was first diagnosed at 16.  It took me about 5 years to fully
come to terms with the situation, but I got there ;-)

BTW good news I got my results yesterday – 17.7 out of a range of
10-20, so I was a little chuffed and relieved with that.  I think the
nurse must have heard wrong last week, ho-hum…

--
Simon
Also in the UK – East Berks.
Dave ???? - 12 Dec 2003 15:37 GMT
Howdy!

People with epilepsy "closer to home", eh?

Well...

How about:
 Bud Abbott-(Abbott & Costello)
 Alexander the Great
 Aristotle
 Buddy Bell-USA (Pro Baseball player/manager)
 Napoleon Bonaparte
 Richard Burton
 Lindsay Buckingham (Fleetwood Mac)
 Buddha
 Lord Byron
 Julius Caesar
 Truman Capote
 Lewis Carroll
 Charles V (Emperor of Austria)
 Agatha Christie
 Leonardo da Vinci
 Charles Dickens
 Fydor Dostoevsky
 Gustave Flaubert
 Danny Glover
 Tony Greig-England (Cricket)
 Georg Fredrick Handel
 Hannibal of Carthage
 Margaux (Margot) Hemingway
 Gary Howatt-USA (Hockey)
 Joan of Arc
 Bob Jones-USA (Basketball)
 Florence Griffith Joyner
 Tony Lazzzari-USA (Baseball)
 Edward Lear
 Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
 Vachel Lindsay
 James Madison-US President
 Michelangelo
 Mohammed
 Jean Moliere-French playwright
 Isaac Newton
 Alfred Nobel
 Nicolo Paganini
 Saint Paul
 Peter the Great
 Pope Pious IX
 Edgar Allen Poe
 Pythagoras
 Jonty Rhodes-South Africa (Cricket)
 Cardinal Richelieu of France
 Socrates
 Pioter (Peter) Tchaikovksy
 Harriet Tubman
 Vincent Van Gogh
 William III
 Neil Young

Signature

Dave ????
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"

http://www.howdydave.com

Chris Lesurf - 13 Dec 2003 13:59 GMT
This list tempts me to ask: Is there anyone who's worth knowing who
doesn't have epilepsy ?!

Chris L.

> Howdy!

> People with epilepsy "closer to home", eh?

> Well...

> How about:
>   Bud Abbott-(Abbott & Costello)
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>   William III
>   Neil Young
Dave ???? - 13 Dec 2003 14:57 GMT
ELVIS!!!!

Signature

Dave ????
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"

http://www.howdydave.com

> This list tempts me to ask: Is there anyone who's worth knowing who
> doesn't have epilepsy ?!
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> >   William III
> >   Neil Young
Mary Fisher - 13 Dec 2003 15:35 GMT
> This list tempts me to ask: Is there anyone who's worth knowing who
> doesn't have epilepsy ?!

Well, my husband doesn't have epilepsy and he's well worth knowing.

There are exceptions to every rule.

Mary
Chris Lesurf - 19 Dec 2003 19:04 GMT
Oh, dear, was I taking my husband for granted ?  No, I was only joking.
What is encouraging is that so many people were given acclaim without
their epilepsy ever being mentioned or perhaps even noticed.

Chris L.

> > This list tempts me to ask: Is there anyone who's worth knowing who
> > doesn't have epilepsy ?!

> Well, my husband doesn't have epilepsy and he's well worth knowing.

> There are exceptions to every rule.

> Mary
Mary Fisher - 19 Dec 2003 22:22 GMT
> Oh, dear, was I taking my husband for granted ?  No, I was only joking.

:-)

> What is encouraging is that so many people were given acclaim without
> their epilepsy ever being mentioned or perhaps even noticed.

That could be because those who mentioned them didn't know. People usually
ARE defined by their sex (if they're women), their colour (if they're
black), their religion (if they're muslim or roman catholic), their
incapacity (if they only have one leg) their sexuality (if they're
homosexual), their age (if they're young or old) ... I'm sure you
understand.

You, like I, must have seen this sort of prejudice frequently in CAB. One of
the reasons we don't have tv or get newspapers is because we find it so
objectionable.

The stories about the one legged black lesbian unemployed single mothers
aren't all that mythical ...

If she had epilepsy too the media would have a field day. And, let's face
it, very many people have their opinions shaped by the media ...

Mary
Paul Oldham - 06 Dec 2003 16:54 GMT
> [...]  It's one of the
> first ones they'll try for what's now called Complex Partial Seizures
> (Tonic Clonic was the older name?).

No. Tonic Clonic is the *current* name for what used to be called "grand
mal". The tonic phase being where you go rigid, the clonic phase being where
you thrash about and bite your tongue etc.

A complex partial is where you act strangely, for example plucking at your
clothes, smacking lips, swallowing repeatedly or wandering around as if
drunk, but it's not full blown trashing around like a tonic-clonic.

See http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/types.html for a good guide to current
naming conventions.

Signature

Paul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK
http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/

gaross - 06 Dec 2003 17:30 GMT
 The terminology seems to be different between the two groups (N.America
and UK).  I was told mine were First Tonic Clonic (in 1993, as opposed to
Grand Mal) since I lost consciousness.  As we got closer to control 1-2
years along, I tended to wander off and behave strangely and *THEN Pass
out...  so it was called Complex Partial (secondarily generalized -- where
the waves of firing would spread across the brain and end with loss of
consciousness).  I also started to see which were the Auras that warned me
to go find somewhere cool to sit down in case the szr. got stronger.
  Julie's Idaho First aid chart (or? the efa.org chart)  suggests a Simple
Partial is similar to an Aura that most of the seizures might have as a
warning that onset has begun.  As I got closer to full control I'd have 2-3
auras a week, but they wouldn't progress to lost awareness, walking into
traffic, waking up in Emerg..   (If I find the www of the descriptions used
in N.America, I'll post them later.)   G./

> In article <kDNzb.106293$ZmO.45657@news01.bloor.is.net.com>,
> gaross@.com (gaross) growled:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Paul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK
> http://the-hug.org/paul/stroke/
 
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