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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / December 2003

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Drug Cocktail

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Rob - 08 Dec 2003 02:08 GMT
Here's one for the chemists;

I take 400mg of Dilantin (phenytoin) daily in a bid to control my complex
partial epilepsy. Yesterday the seizures seemed more severe than normal so
before going to bed I took 5mg of Antenex (diazepam) which was prescribed a
couple of years ago for a bout of non-convulsive status epilepticus that I
experienced. I also took 20 mg of Cipramil (citalopram) which I have
recently been taking for chronic depression. This morning I have had some of
the worst seizures of my life that have also left me with a terrible
headache.

Is this a drug combination that should be avoided ?

Thanks,
Rob
Bob - 08 Dec 2003 03:38 GMT
> Here's one for the chemists;
>
> I take 400mg of Dilantin (phenytoin) daily in a bid to control my complex
> partial epilepsy.

Your description doesn't sound like Complex Partials because with those you
would have no memory of being in the seizure state. Are you sure you aren't
having Simple Partials?

> Yesterday the seizures seemed more severe than normal so
> before going to bed

You shouldn't be having that many to begin with if you're receiving the right
medications. In any case, these can be variable from day to day & time to time.
You may have just been entering a worse than usual period. These come & go with
me for no known reason.

> I took 5mg of Antenex (diazepam) which was prescribed a
> couple of years ago for a bout of non-convulsive status epilepticus that I
> experienced. I also took 20 mg of Cipramil (citalopram) which I have
> recently been taking for chronic depression. This morning I have had some of
> the worst seizures of my life that have also left me with a terrible
> headache.

Any of those chemicals could disrupt the scenario, but it may have nothing to do
with them.

You need to see a neurologist or epileptologist and get the right medications.
Your dilantin isn't getting the job done and others need to be tried.

> Is this a drug combination that should be avoided ?

There're too many variables at play and it's impossible to say, in my opinion,
but I'm not a doctor.

> Thanks,
> Rob

Bob
Dave ???? - 08 Dec 2003 05:01 GMT
Howdy Bob!

That's a rather drastic simplification isn't it?

Exactly what do you mean by "the right medication"?

Some of us have gone for decades, even lifetimes, without having any
reduction in seizure activities no matter what drug or combinations of drugs
have been tried.

Sorry to say, but it's a hard fact of life (for some of us anyway) that
sometimes there is no "right medication."

Signature

Dave ????
"Noli illigitemi carborundum decendus"

http://www.howdydave.com

<snip>

> You shouldn't be having that many to begin with if you're receiving the right
> medications. In any case, these can be variable from day to day & time to time.
> You may have just been entering a worse than usual period. These come & go with
> me for no known reason.

<snip>

> Bob
Bob - 08 Dec 2003 14:40 GMT
"Dave ©¿©¬" wrote:

> Howdy Bob!
>
> That's a rather drastic simplification isn't it?
>
> Exactly what do you mean by "the right medication"?

Hi Dave

At this point in time, we don't know what medications have been tried in the
past. Is Dilantin the only one that has been tried or ?  I meant a drug that
would reduce his number of seizures from what sounds like a pretty  high level.

> Some of us have gone for decades, even lifetimes, without having any
> reduction in seizure activities no matter what drug or combinations of drugs
> have been tried.

In my own case, Tegretol. Keppra, Lamictal, &, recently, Primidone have been
tried & abandoned as haven't no effect or undesireable side-effects..

> Sorry to say, but it's a hard fact of life (for some of us anyway) that
> sometimes there is no "right medication."

I'm painfully aware of that. The Neurontin & phenobarbital that I take myself
have reduced my symptoms, but they haven't "cured" me and every day is misery to
one degree or another.

Bob

> --
> Dave ©¿©¬
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> > Bob
gaross - 08 Dec 2003 05:29 GMT
> > Here's one for the chemists;
> > I take 400mg of Dilantin (phenytoin) daily in a bid to control my complex
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Bob

I agree w. Bob.  If you're aware of what's happening they're probably not
full C.P. seizures, more likely S.P. seizures or the Auras that go with
them?
 Wrt. the medications I don't recognize the 3rd one, the Second (*if it's
the Sublingual Diazepam) should have put you on Mars at 5mg (unless that was
a typo).   Mine are only 1mg and, when I used them, as sublingual type,
1x1mg would make me fall asleep within about an hour of taking it.
  At the very least you might consider asking your Pharmacist if those 2
last meds. should be mixed.  They might conflict with each other, so that
one might be a relaxant and the other an alert medication for example.  You
might just have to change the Timing of when those 2 are taken so they're
apart.

  Similarly with his medical opinion, while we have 4-6 people 'around
here' using Dilantin without a lot of problems, *I* found it really erratic
during the 12-15 months I tried it (1993-4), and had to discard it for a
stronger medication fairly soon after trying it.
 *But if you're only having Simple Partials, you might just need a minor
adjustment to either the AM or Night-time dose to fix things.   Some of the
meds., our bodies get used-to over time, and just need a partial bump-up to
get the control back.    G.R.
Rob - 08 Dec 2003 19:45 GMT
No Bob, they're definitely Complex Partials.

Firstly, the severity is something that is observed by others (usually my
wife). They sometimes last longer than usual and can involve extra
involuntary movement, in my case, hand fidgeting on top of my "normal" lip
smacking. Secondly, my state of bewilderment afterwards and the length of
this phase indicates the severity to me. I also know they've been
particularly bad when my head aches and I cannot eat because my taste buds
have gone on holidays.

I have tried almost all medications since the original diagnosis some 25
years ago. In my case Dilantin is the drug of choice as it has the least
side effects and provides the most effective control. When I have a
particularly bad string of seizures I sometimes take a Diazepam, probably
out of fear that they (the seizures) will develop into non-convulsive
status, a condition that I definitely don't want to experience again.

Cipramil was recently added to my drug regime after I was diagnosed as being
chronically depressed. Pending surgery to remove some or all of my right
temporal lobe may be the cause of this.

I guess this leads to another question for all;

Can anyone share their experience of brain surgery for epilepsy ?

Regards,
Rob

> > Here's one for the chemists;
> >
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Bob
Bob - 08 Dec 2003 23:45 GMT
> No Bob, they're definitely Complex Partials.

Ok, I see now.  My wife is also the only way I knew that I had had one. The was
a never a loss of consciousness, but I had zero memory afterwards of the period
while I had been having the Complex Partial.

> Firstly, the severity is something that is observed by others (usually my
> wife). They sometimes last longer than usual and can involve extra
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> out of fear that they (the seizures) will develop into non-convulsive
> status, a condition that I definitely don't want to experience again.

The Neurontin had reduced the frequency of my Simple Partials somewhat, but it
was the phenobarbital that got rid of the Complex Partials and muted the effect
of the Simple Partials & Auras.  Tegretol, Keppra, Lamictal (got rash & had to
stop), Primidone haven't helped.

> Cipramil was recently added to my drug regime after I was diagnosed as being
> chronically depressed. Pending surgery to remove some or all of my right
> temporal lobe may be the cause of this.

I am severely depressed almost all the time and just try to keep my mind busy on
other things.  I've rejected the doctor's offer of an anti-depressant as I fear
the possible side-effects & drug interactions and would prefer to be taking less
of & fewer drugs rather than more. I'd rather live with the depression than with
the other possibilities.

Bob

> I guess this leads to another question for all;
>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> >
> > Bob
Rob - 09 Dec 2003 01:20 GMT
Know how you feel Bob.

The anti-depressant was prescribed because I started to believe that I had
become a burden on others, to the point where I sometimes felt it would be
better if I was somewhere else. My mood cycles were also having a
detrimental effect on my relationships at home and at work. The Cipramil has
sparked me up somewhat, but I was warned that in some cases it can actually
cause more seizures. I'm beginning to believe it, so I think I'll stop
taking it and just get on with things.

Regards,
Rob

> > No Bob, they're definitely Complex Partials.
>
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
> > >
> > > Bob
Bob - 09 Dec 2003 03:53 GMT
> Know how you feel Bob.

I'm sure you do, Rob.

> The anti-depressant was prescribed because I started to believe that I had
> become a burden on others,

It's all been having its effect on my wife.  We've been married quite a few
years and I volunteered to her early on in this recent comeback that I knew that
this was all hard on her too, so that she would know that I was thinking about
her too and not just myself.  Nevertheless, the level of tension has risen
because, I think, she is having trouble coping with it all.  I can't say that I
blame her, but I always let her know that I love her. :-)

> to the point where I sometimes felt it would be
> better if I was somewhere else.

I've felt that way often.

> My mood cycles were also having a
> detrimental effect on my relationships at home and at work. The Cipramil has
> sparked me up somewhat, but I was warned that in some cases it can actually
> cause more seizures. I'm beginning to believe it, so I think I'll stop
> taking it and just get on with things.

Consider it an experiment and see if your seizure rate goes down.  You can
always start taking it again.

Best wishes

Bob

> Regards,
> Rob
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
> > > >
> > > > Bob
Rob - 09 Dec 2003 07:37 GMT
Sounds like we have parallel lives.

> > Know how you feel Bob.
>
[quoted text clipped - 147 lines]
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
Bob - 09 Dec 2003 15:45 GMT
It does, but you'll find quite a few people who post here who also have the same
problems. That's what makes this such a terrific group for sharing experiences,
ideas, & tips.

Bob

> Sounds like we have parallel lives.
>
[quoted text clipped - 184 lines]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob
CyberCafe - 09 Dec 2003 05:52 GMT
> > Here's one for the chemists;
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> would have no memory of being in the seizure state. Are you sure you aren't
> having Simple Partials?

I have complex partials (started with simple partials) and it does not have to
involve loss of consiousness.  I have never, ever lost consciousness.  There is what
is called altered consciousness though with complex partials, which is kind of hard
to describe.  To me, alterted consciousness is more like being transfixed on a
really good tv show, and you just don't pay attention to anything else going on in
the room.  You know what is going on in the room, but all your attention is glued to
the tv screen.

Barb

> > Yesterday the seizures seemed more severe than normal so
> > before going to bed
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Bob
Rob - 09 Dec 2003 10:41 GMT
Barb,

Pretty well describes mine too. During my seizures I can also converse with
others, although it doesn't always make much sense to them. .

Regards,
Rob

> > > Here's one for the chemists;
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> >
> > Bob
CyberCafe - 09 Dec 2003 06:01 GMT
> Here's one for the chemists;
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Is this a drug combination that should be avoided ?

It would be a good idea to have a blood level done to see if the Dilantin is in
therapeutic range.

Barb

> Thanks,
> Rob
 
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