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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / December 2006more than one type of seizure?
HI. I"ve posted on here before. I have simple and complex partial seizures with and without secondary generaliztion. Usually my seizures are typical- starting with a muscle spasm and building from there, until it either stops or I might collapse. sometimes I laugh coming out of it, or sob like a baby babbling. I can't make out words very well sometimes. Once in awhile (mostly before I started meds) I get real dizzy in teh back of my head for a couple seconds, then have a slight full body spaz and then collapse to the floor and am too weak to move for a long time. zoned out, too. I'm on 2 meds. But, lately, I've been getting crazy vertigo. usually it's when I lay down and try to go to sleep. I had this problem before I ever knew I had epilepsy, but not very often. but it seems since I started meds that it happens almost every night. it feels like my head is spinning and my body is spinning slowly in the opposite direction, while also trying to tick back the other way. it's almost a numb weird feeling, like something is alseep minus the tingling. it seems to last forever. I think this is the seizure I had in my sleep when I had a 24 hr eeg. But recently, I've started having the sensation while I'm awake. When I'm sitting up, it feels like my brain is pulling straight to the floor. sometimes, it stops. but usually it keeps going or only stops for a second. And I zone out to the world and into myself cuz it is not a cool feeling. and it goes to a certain point. then I completely collapse. I go weak and crash. Is this a drop attack? It's only happened like this a couple times. and I've been sitting both times, but it's a little more unusual than what I normally experience. I have only been diagnosed since this Oct. can seizures change symptoms on you? or new ones add on? I know that sometimes I have complex seizures and I only know because my feet stop picking up when I'm walking around. they shuffle instead. and I wander aimlessly. maybe this is a new symptom of a complex partial? I have no idea! > HI. I"ve posted on here before. I have simple and complex partial seizures > with and without secondary generalisation. *************************************************** *G* The symptoms you describe below, are part of a complex partial seizure when it Secondarily Generalizes... That's where you can space out, be unaware of what you do or where you are, and if it gets too intense, can then lead to loss of consciousness. The Secondary Generalization is a little like e.g. Water coming onshore (the original or partial seizure), and when it hits some rocks at the shore, the water Splashes away and spreads outward -- well not much of an analogy, but when my CP seizures used to Secondarily Generalize, that was the electrical signals in the brain spreading out there and reducing in intensity, and the **Sensation I had was like what I described above. /G. Usually my seizures are typical- > starting with a muscle spasm and building from there, until it either stops > or I might collapse. sometimes I laugh coming out of it, or sob like a baby > babbling. I can't make out words very well sometimes. Once in awhile > (mostly before I started meds) I get real dizzy in the back of my head for a > couple seconds, then have a slight full body spaz and then collapse to the > floor and am too weak to move for a long time. zoned out, too. *** See above, I described what happens when your Simple Partial or Complex Partial seizures Secondarily Generalizes (spreads). *Sometimes we can have a mild onset and jus the Aura, feel uncomfortable and it passes -- Both those types are described on various websites, like under webmd, but also at http://efa.org and other sites. (I posted a note about 10 days? ago that lists 4-5 websites I use, then others added a few other sites. If you can look back in this group around that time-- Subject like 'Websites I've found Useful', you'll see a group of sites we've commonly used around here to help. /G. I'm on 2 > meds. But, lately, I've been getting crazy vertigo. usually it's when I lay > down and try to go to sleep. I had this problem before I ever knew I had > epilepsy, but not very often. but it seems since I started meds that it > happens almost every night. ***** Did you tell your Doctor about Above? or you could also ask the Pharmacist if some of that can be a Side Effect of whatever the meds are you use. If you list the *names here, others who use them might be able to help tell you if they've had similar effects. Sometimes starting newer medications is a bit of a balancing act-- too much and you feel like a Zombie and Groggy, too little and you might have (what I called) Breakthrough Seizures, just Right, and they might stop for a longer period. *Also our bodies and Metabolism change over time, and you might need e.g. a Blood test ( !) or something to see if the dose you currently use is **still at therapeutic levels *for you. That would be something the Doctor could advise you about. Did you tell them you're having these sensations? /G. it feels like my head is spinning and my body is > spinning slowly in the opposite direction, while also trying to tick back the > other way. it's almost a numb weird feeling, like something is alseep minus [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > myself cuz it is not a cool feeling. and it goes to a certain point. then I > completely collapse. I go weak and crash. Is this a drop attack? ** I think a Drop Attack might be an older term. Mine happened like you just described when they Secondarily Generalized (spread through the brain), like I described above. / It's only > happened like this a couple times. and I've been sitting both times, but it's > a little more unusual than what I normally experience. I have only been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > instead. and I wander aimlessly. maybe this is a new symptom of a complex > partial? I have no idea! ** If you've only been taking whatever the pills are since Oct., they might not yet have reached the Ideal level in your Blood yet. Some of these are slow release and can take a while to reach an Ideal level in our system. If what you're using isn't a Time Released type pill (Tegretol Controlled release e.g. or some of the others that depend on a fixed dose at a fixed rate to keep things stable), the Dr. could decide if something like that would give you better control. OR they might just add half a tablet on alternate days for example, and that might be all you need. The Doctor could tell you that. If you're wondering if a symptom might be a side effect of a particular pill, the Pharmacist who fills your prescriptions can give you a Printout and possible www address for the particular pill. Another source that has a Pill Glossary is the Ep. Foundation of America website http://efa.org find the Glossary, and either scroll to the pill type or type in the name in the box and click on GO or Search by the box, and it'll give you a 1-page General summary of what a pill is for, how to use it, and what to avoid while using it (often upset stomach remedies, alcohol, plus other things listed that might conflict with them). Let us know how you make out or if you have other questions. Not everyone reads the group every day, so check this message thread over next 3-5 days in case others have some ideas too. The *pill names (above) might get you more specific replies too. G./ > HI. I"ve posted on here before. I have simple and complex partial seizures > with and without secondary generalisation. *************************************************** ** The symptoms you describe below, are part of a complex partial seizure when it Secondarily Generalizes... That's where you can space out, be unaware of what you do or where you are, and if it gets too intense, can then lead to loss of consciousness. The Secondary Generalization is a little like e.g. Water coming onshore (the original or partial seizure), and when it hits some rocks at the shore, the water Splashes away and spreads outward -- well not much of an analogy, but when my CP seizures used to Secondarily Generalize, that was the electrical signals in the brain spreading out there and reducing in intensity, and the **Sensation I had was like what I described above. /G. Usually my seizures are typical- > starting with a muscle spasm and building from there, until it either stops > or I might collapse. sometimes I laugh coming out of it, or sob like a baby > babbling. I can't make out words very well sometimes. Once in awhile > (mostly before I started meds) I get real dizzy in the back of my head for a > couple seconds, then have a slight full body spaz and then collapse to the > floor and am too weak to move for a long time. zoned out, too. *** See above, I described what happens when your Simple Partial or Complex Partial seizures Secondarily Generalizes (spreads). *Sometimes we can have a mild onset and jus the Aura, feel uncomfortable and it passes -- Both those types are described on various websites, like under webmd, but also at http://efa.org and other sites. (I posted a note about 10 days? ago that lists 4-5 websites I use, then others added a few other sites. If you can look back in this group around that time-- Subject like 'Websites I've found Useful', you'll see a group of sites we've commonly used around here to help. /G. I'm on 2 > meds. But, lately, I've been getting crazy vertigo. usually it's when I lay > down and try to go to sleep. I had this problem before I ever knew I had > epilepsy, but not very often. but it seems since I started meds that it > happens almost every night. ***** Did you tell your Doctor about Above? or you could also ask the Pharmacist if some of that can be a Side Effect of whatever the meds are you use. If you list the *names here, others who use them might be able to help tell you if they've had similar effects. Sometimes starting newer medications is a bit of a balancing act-- too much and you feel like a Zombie and Groggy, too little and you might have (what I called) Breakthrough Seizures, just Right, and they might stop for a longer period. *Also our bodies and Metabolism change over time, and you might need e.g. a Blood test ( !) or something to see if the dose you currently use is **still at therapeutic levels *for you. That would be something the Doctor could advise you about. Did you tell them you're having these sensations? /G. it feels like my head is spinning and my body is > spinning slowly in the opposite direction, while also trying to tick back the > other way. it's almost a numb weird feeling, like something is alseep minus [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > myself cuz it is not a cool feeling. and it goes to a certain point. then I > completely collapse. I go weak and crash. Is this a drop attack? ** I think a Drop Attack might be an older term. Mine happened like you just described when they Secondarily Generalized (spread through the brain), like I described above. / It's only > happened like this a couple times. and I've been sitting both times, but it's > a little more unusual than what I normally experience. I have only been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > instead. and I wander aimlessly. maybe this is a new symptom of a complex > partial? I have no idea! ** If you've only been taking whatever the pills are since Oct., they might not yet have reached the Ideal level in your Blood yet. Some of these are slow release and can take a while to reach an Ideal level in our system. If what you're using isn't a Time Released type pill (Tegretol Controlled release e.g. or some of the others that depend on a fixed dose at a fixed rate to keep things stable), the Dr. could decide if something like that would give you better control. OR they might just add half a tablet on alternate days for example, and that might be all you need. The Doctor could tell you that. If you're wondering if a symptom might be a side effect of a particular pill, the Pharmacist who fills your prescriptions can give you a Printout and possible www address for the particular pill. Another source that has a Pill Glossary is the Ep. Foundation of America website http://efa.org find the Glossary, and either scroll to the pill type or type in the name in the box and click on GO or Search by the box, and it'll give you a 1-page General summary of what a pill is for, how to use it, and what to avoid while using it (often upset stomach remedies, alcohol, plus other things listed that might conflict with them). Let us know how you make out or if you have other questions. Not everyone reads the group every day, so check this message thread over next 3-5 days in case others have some ideas too. The *pill names (above) might get you more specific replies too. G./ Yes, I knew that my seizures generalize. The thing that is weird to me is the sudden brain pulling numbness feeling and then just flat out collapsing. ONly becuase normally I spaz out and then collapse and twice now, I've had no spaz. just collapse. This just sorta bothers me because I don't know why it happens. I"m on trileptal and keppra. thanks for the info. I've looked at various epilepsy websites. I just dont like when new or different things happen because they are so out of the "norm" for what I am used to and they scare me...... >> HI. I"ve posted on here before. I have simple and complex partial seizures >> with and without secondary generalisation. [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] >next 3-5 days in case others have some ideas too. The *pill names >(above) might get you more specific replies too. G./ > Yes, I knew that my seizures generalize. The thing that is weird to me is > the sudden brain pulling numbness feeling and then just flat out collapsing. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Message posted via MedKB.com > http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/epilepsy/200612/1 That *might be described under Rapid Onset seizures (if that's the term). I had those often in the last ~year after I got control of my older type Complex Partials where I'd first get an Aura (feeling of strangeness, picture out of focus, then loss of Full Awareness of what I did or said until I regained consciousness, usually in Hospital or on a Floor somewhere). As I got nearer full control (although it sure didn't Feel like it was nearer), I had about 3-4 that came on without the Aura, and I hated that, since I formerly had at least the weird feeling that told me to move to a sidewalk or ?? when I might be about to collapse. The last 2 of those I had I was at the Target dose the Dr. was heading for, but had only been there about 4-6 weeks. I haven't had a Dose change since about 1996, and the last full seizure I had was June 1998... sure I remember, we all remember the last one. (Someone here a few years ago said it was like a bratty younger sibling who follows us around, waiting for a chance to sneak up on us... ) I've had a few Auras after that but by that time was able to clear those by getting some fresh air or a Cold Drink of Water or Sprite/ 7Up. They might be out of the Norm for you if you were used to stronger seizures? but are getting closer to where they'll stop? I could never predict when mine would happen at First, then after the Auras (simple partials) stopped, I didn't have any warning and started to miss having that too... But now I don't have either and *that I don't miss.. :-< Hopefully that could be what's happening with your Dose levels? I expect you know, but both those pills, like my Tegretol CR, are intended to be taken when due plus or minus ~4 hours, and not to miss a Dose if you can help it. That way you always have a therapeutic level in your blood that works for your type and metabolism. I haven't needed a dose change now for more than the 8 years since my last szr. G./ That's interesting....I don't know what "target dose" my dr. is looking for. He doesn't really say much to me. These "rapid seizures" are weird. Though, I dont think I get them everyday. I don't know. Maybe I do. Sometimes I get the brain pulling thing and don't collapse. sometimes I do collapse. the other day, I had the brain pulling thing at Barnes and NObles. nothing more. Then a couple hours later at home is when I crashed to my floor. Then at night I had the brain pulilng thing like crazy and I hated it. I don't know if I collapsed or not. I actually can't remember. Today, I had one seizure. I'm pretty sure it was just a simple one. I don't really know how to describe it but I know it's feelings I usually get before I spaz or maybe while I spaz. this time was minus the spaz. So, maybe your suggestion is true. I do know that coming from October to now, they are getting better for sure. In Oct I was having multiple seizures in a day and some were bad. And now, I am only having one, maybe 2 but they are fairly discreet. They are shorter. If I happen to collapse, It's not all the time like before! I guess this is a good thing:-) I'm slightly worried about tomorrow because I'm getting up at 5am to go w/a friend a couple hours away to sit at a judging course all day long and recertify my judging for tumbling and trampoline. I do know that really early mornings and going nonstop all day, even if it's just sitting there listening, usually triggers a seizure whether I'm ready for it or not. It doesn't matter if I take meds or not. Heck. Maybe I'll wake everyone up if it happens cuz most of us are falling asleep anyway! Maybe it'll be more fun if I just brain spaz and collapse because at least I'll be on crash mats. and Yes, they are called crash mats! haha. good for crashing? What I don't really understand though, is why do I get these brain spazes and collapsing things if I am on meds and have been on them since the end of october? becuase it seems to me that if I'm going to have this episode, a lot of times it's after i take a dose.....hhmmm..... >> Yes, I knew that my seizures generalize. The thing that is weird to me is >> the sudden brain pulling numbness feeling and then just flat out collapsing. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >needed a dose change now for more than the 8 years since my last szr. >G./ > I haven't had a Dose change since about 1996, and the last full > seizure I had was June 1998... sure I remember, we all remember the > last one. (Someone here a few years ago said it was like a bratty > younger sibling who follows us around, waiting for a chance to sneak up > on us... ) Yeah, it's hard to forget your last seizure when your still getting several types of them... including Complex Partials, if they're ones awight really is talking about. Mine don't get any auras like yours Gordon, so it's hard to tell if I'm having a seizure but I've been told I get approx 2-3 of these per day by my hubby. Can I also take this opportunity to tell awright that I'm not sure if a seizure can turn into another on it's own, but from my own experience, they sort of seemed to have multiplied and change with age. I began getting just simple absences at 9 years old, which then added my Grand mal tonic-clonics at 11, followed by my Complex Partials sometime in my mid twenty's, which were finally followed by my tonics in my early thirty's. I'm 40 now and I still get the lot of them without any warnings - and most of them (including absences) also come with incontinence, so don't be too surprised if you aren't getting them already! I've taken several mixtures of meds, by my neuro's to try and control my condition, all without much success, but nowadays I take tegretol, keppra, and zonisamide. I don't think this pulling you describe you have in your head could be a drop attack though, as I'm sure I've felt it several times before, and I don't even know what a drop attack is! I wouldn't say you're seizures aren't taking another new addition though, as I haven't a clue. I'd be very interested to hear what this feeling is myself as I'm pretty mystified, so keep in touch and let us know what your neuro' has to say about it. Sofie  SignaturePlease visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/ > > I haven't had a Dose change since about 1996, and the last full > > seizure I had was June 1998... sure I remember, we all remember the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > about it. > Sofie I had thought that Drop Attacks describe a rapid onset seizure where I wouldn't have time to realize I was having an Aura or look for somewhere safe to lie down until it passed. A couple of times I was 'there' and OK and next thing I'd just drop to the floor as it generalized that quickly to a full seizure. Several times I'd lose consciousness for 4-10 minutes, often with incontinence, but *most times with complete lack of any memory of what I did while I was 'away'. (That lack of awareness was a symptom I'd have with most of my Complex Partials Seizures before they got closer to full control.) It's often possible for a seizure to start with e.g. a Simple Partial (aura) and as the waves of electrical firing spreads across the brain (that's the part the Doctors refer to as it Generalizing), it was like an Electrical Breaker tripping and the neuron firing got so erratic that I'd just fall where I was. Once I started to get nearer full control, I'd only have an Aura (dizzy swirling feeling and taste or aroma of Lemon)- characteristic of a Right Temporal lobe Focus, where the szr. started from. When I knew what those were I was able to clear them usually by getting fresh air, or drinking something cold -- juice or water. After I had been at the target dose more than about 6 months, my szrs. stopped. I still use medication daily to control mine. G./ > I had thought that Drop Attacks describe a rapid onset seizure where > I wouldn't have time to realize I was having an Aura or look for > somewhere safe to lie down until it passed. Hmmm, but I don't get aura's with *any* of my seizures - I just wake up!:( I can't count how many cookers I've ruined as I've woken up lying unconscious at the bottom of them with smashed teeth, bruises, and in need of stitches over my face and body, how many cars I've walked in front of and woken up lying in the middle of a high street, how many supermarkets I've stolen goods from that I didn't know I had till I got back home and found in my pocket or handbag. Surely not myself or anybody else who doesn't get aura's, are getting just drop-attacks. I name mine the all same names as you name your's, just without any warnings! Sofie SignaturePlease visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/ > > I had thought that Drop Attacks describe a rapid onset seizure where > > I wouldn't have time to realize I was having an Aura or look for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > without any warnings! > Sofie That was what I thought Drop Attacks were. I guess I should go look at the US Ep. Foundation site http://efa.org or Julie's Idaho site and see if they're different somehow. I used to *hate those auras (lemon taste or aroma, deja vu feeling that I'd done all this sometime already, etc. -- that are the Aura of a Right Temporal Lobe onset). I guess I was lucky at the time as they gave me time to move to safety, or away from anything dangerous. Did you ever see some of the stuff in Julie's Idaho website on Safety and Seizures? I don't know if they'd help as much when your's appear to have such rapid onset or at least without an Aura to warn one might be starting. I think it was on that site where they had Electric Kettles that Auto-Off when the water boils, so it won't keep boiling if we're away on an Absence or in a seizure. For cooking, a lot of people around here (the group) use Microwaves versus regular stoves, as most times once a Microware is set up and started, they run for the programmed time then stop, whether we're there or 'away' in mid-seizure. It wouldn't help much with the Supermarkets though, I'm afraid. Most things in Canada are now Bar-coded for rapid checkout and set off an Alarm if someone leaves the store without having it scanned... I don't remember seeing bar-codes on Fruit. But if John Cleese is standing around the door, he knows how to defend himself from a Banana !! :-> G./ You guys are funny. I used to work at a grocery store. customer service. good thing I didn't have this problem a couple years ago! I would've been demoted to "bag boy" instead of working with the money! Anyway, I've recently discovered that when I have a huge lack of sleep for whatever reason, is when I spaz before a seizure. Lately, I haven't been totally spazzing and I think it's because the meds are doing something, but still with the huge lack of sleep I do spaz. It's actually kind of a relief to not totally go tense and contract everything, believe it or not. Because, yea I do like to work out in general and I'm a work out fanatic but man, static poses for strength training were never fun to me. I must say though, my forearms are rather nicely toned..... Anyway, I seem to recover quicker when I have the pull/numb feeling and then drop right away too. Although earlier tonight, I did leave quite a bit of DNA all over my face and my floor when I decided it was time to come back to reality:-) Last night I just started laughing out of nowhere in my friend's room, well after a surprise seizure a couple minutes beforehand, and I ended up with my head in her laundry basket! I didn't leave any DNA there though. I tend to leave my DNA everywhere. When my muscles decide to go on a vacation, my jaw doesn't like to close, either and I drool. Hence, the DNA. Sometimes I drool like a water fountain! Ok anyway, I have 1-2 seizures a day now. which is better than before. And, they are quicker/shorter/not so bad, etc. so I think if my meds are upped some, eventually I will be alright. That's what I'm shooting for! >> > I had thought that Drop Attacks describe a rapid onset seizure where >> > I wouldn't have time to realize I was having an Aura or look for [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >standing around the door, he knows how to defend himself from a Banana >!! :-> G./ > You guys are funny. I used to work at a grocery store. customer service. > good thing I didn't have this problem a couple years ago! I would've been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think it's because the meds are doing something, but still with the huge > lack of sleep I do spaz. *** Many of the Anti Ep Meds. are set to be taken on a routine rate, and might take e.g. 3-4 days at the target dose before our bodies settle into absorbing it at the rate that works for us. Each of us is different (by weight, rate of metabolizing foods/pills, and szr. type), and once we reach the ideal dose the seizures reduce or stop. Many of the szr. types are aggravated by lack of sleep, as it lowers our seizure threshold --the point where we might have a seizure, and being more rested reduces that risk./ It's actually kind of a relief to not totally go > tense and contract everything, believe it or not. Because, yea I do like to > work out in general and I'm a work out fanatic but man, static poses for > strength training were never fun to me. I must say though, my forearms are > rather nicely toned..... **** If you didn't tell the Dr. that you also work out, they *might adjust your pills (up) to compensate for the rate you're burning off the medication, as well as the calories. Or they might add a second (different) pill to help give you balance with the first for above workout. It's not unusual to take e.g. 3-6 months after onset of a seizure type to reach the combo that works. It took me from Jan.1993 to late 1995 to reach mine, from first pill type (Dilantin), on to Tegretol CR then Tegretol and Frisium, adjusting doses by half a table each time up or down... kind of like adjusting the tuning on a car. Some of us have more complicated motors (neuro firing +seizure type) that might take more tinkering to get the mix that will work best. / > Ok anyway, I have 1-2 seizures a > day now. which is better than before. And, they are quicker/shorter/not so > bad, etc. so I think if my meds are upped some, eventually I will be alright. > That's what I'm shooting for! *** I hope that works for you. IT does for many of us. Some of these pills are absorbed in the Kidneys or Liver, so it can take some fine-tuning to get to the target dose that works best. Once you're there though, it's often the case that the dose you reach will remain stable for a long time. *I haven't needed any dose changes for 10 years now-- 1996 (onset was 1993). / > You guys are funny. I used to work at a grocery store. customer service. > good thing I didn't have this problem a couple years ago! I would've been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think it's because the meds are doing something, but still with the huge > lack of sleep I do spaz. *** Many of the Anti Ep Meds. are set to be taken on a routine rate, and might take e.g. 3-4 days at the target dose before our bodies settle into absorbing it at the rate that works for us. Each of us is different (by weight, rate of metabolizing foods/pills, and szr. type), and once we reach the ideal dose the seizures reduce or stop. Many of the szr. types are aggravated by lack of sleep, as it lowers our seizure threshold --the point where we might have a seizure, and being more rested reduces that risk./ It's actually kind of a relief to not totally go > tense and contract everything, believe it or not. Because, yea I do like to > work out in general and I'm a work out fanatic but man, static poses for > strength training were never fun to me. I must say though, my forearms are > rather nicely toned..... **** If you didn't tell the Dr. that you also work out, they *might adjust your pills (up) to compensate for the rate you're burning off the medication, as well as the calories. Or they might add a second (different) pill to help give you balance with the first for above workout. It's not unusual to take e.g. 3-6 months after onset of a seizure type to reach the combo that works. It took me from Jan.1993 to late 1995 to reach mine, from first pill type (Dilantin), on to Tegretol CR then Tegretol and Frisium, adjusting doses by half a table each time up or down... kind of like adjusting the tuning on a car. Some of us have more complicated motors (neuro firing +seizure type) that might take more tinkering to get the mix that will work best. / > Ok anyway, I have 1-2 seizures a > day now. which is better than before. And, they are quicker/shorter/not so > bad, etc. so I think if my meds are upped some, eventually I will be alright. > That's what I'm shooting for! *** I hope that works for you. IT does for many of us. Some of these pills are absorbed in the Kidneys or Liver, so it can take some fine-tuning to get to the target dose that works best. Once you're there though, it's often the case that the dose you reach will remain stable for a long time. *I haven't needed any dose changes for 10 years now-- 1996 (onset was 1993). /
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