> hello group starting my new meds today im going to wind down on the
> phenytoin er dilantin and stop it . go to depakote whitch is 500 mg 3
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> pills for 5 days and then stop dilantin well will let you know how it
> goes group. thanks
I haven't used the other pills except Dilantin. They step up the
dosing rate slowly like that so you don't get 'maxed out' too fast as
the blood levels build up. And they have you half to 2/3rds the way
to where you're going on the newer pills (depakote) before they reduce
the Dilantin and remove it. Depending how high a dose you are on
Dilantin, they might slowly reduce that over a week, but could do it
over a longer period.
Some of the stronger pills (like my Tegretol) are usually reduced
slower over longer time, but I think Dilantin is more forgiving during
withdrawal.
You already know to keep us informed how you're doing... Lots of
people Read here who might use or be considering other medications and
can learn from our successes or not. Good luck with the Transition.
Heck at this rate you won't even have to make any (many) New Year's
Resolutions.. ;-> G./
> hello group starting my new meds today im going to wind down on the
> phenytoin er dilantin and stop it . go to depakote whitch is 500 mg 3
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> pills for 5 days and then stop dilantin well will let you know how it
> goes group. thanks
I started out at 1000 m.g. three times a day, then after about six
weeks, went down to 1000 m.g. twice a day to stay in the therapeutic
range of 50-100. I tried 1750 m.g. a day but that left my level out of
the therapeutic range, so I had to go back to 2000 m.g. a day. It
really is personal and depends on your weight, and your metabolism
rate. These are all very specific to the patient, so your neurologist
can best decide what will work best for you.Good Luck,
Jim
> hello group starting my new meds today im going to wind down on the
> phenytoin er dilantin and stop it . go to depakote whitch is 500 mg 3
> times a day when alls said and done . 1500 mg a day of depakote that
> sounds strong any input here..
Please keep my disclaimer in mind that I am neither a doctor nor a pharmacist.
So what you hear from me is coming from a layperson's interpretation of what he
reads on various pertinent websites. You've probably read that the normal
starting dose for Depakote is 750 mg/da and that may be causing you your
expressed concern. I guess that makes 1500 mg/da sound on the high side.
I think the possible reason is that you are not coming from a fresh new
situation of not using any drugs, but that you are already on another drug and
that drug, in particular, is phenytoin, which has a 2-way interaction with
Depakote. i.e. Depakote has an effect on phenytoin AND phenytoin has an effect
on Depakote. For that reason, I notice, periodic blood serum level tests should
be performed in the early part of the therapy. Was anything said about having
those?
___phenytoin effecting Depakote__
http://rxlist.com/cgi/generic/dival_ad.htm indicates that "For example,
phenytoin, carbamazepine, and phenobarbital (or primidone) can double the
clearance of valproate." In plain English, that means that the phenytoin that
you are taking causes the Depakote to be gotten rid of twice as fast by your
body and perhaps that is why the amount is being doubled to 1500 mg to
compensate. Maybe? Only your doctor really knows. There is also the possibility
of what's known as "loading", which is an attempt to quickly build up the amount
in the body and then back down from that amount, if indicated, to maintain what
is the desired blood serum level for that drug of between 50 to 100 µg/mL.
> got me still takeing phenytoin at 500 mg a day .
___Depakote effecting phenytoin__
This one gives some cause for concern, since sites like
http://www.idosi.org/wjms/1(1)2006/13.pdf which says "Serum levels of Phenytoin
in combination with sodium valproate were about 40 percent more than serum
concentration of this drug when used in combination with Phenobarbital.". In
plain English, the effect of the 500 mg phenytoin will climb as though you had
started taking 600?, 700? mg. I can't give you exact numbers, but am just trying
to convey the idea of what will be happening. That along with the added effect
of the new drug!
> here how it goes. cont. takeing dilantin then take one pill of depakote for 3
> days. then take 2 pills for 3 days .then take 3 pills for 5 days and then
> stop dilantin well will let you know how it goes group. thanks
And simply stop dilantin abruptly?? 500 mg one day and none the next?? That sure
doesn't sound right to me. I'd question the doctor.
Doctors do also make prescribing errors and my own doctor, for example, made one
recently. I needed an antibiotic and he prescribed a dose after checking to make
sure that there would be no bad reactions with my other drugs. The pharmacist
caught the error and I assume because they enter all this in their computer and
the computer caught it. My Dilantin causes the body to destroy the antibiotic
just like the effect it has on Depakote. My doctor was called and he *doubled*
the dose to compensate.
Your doctor might be compensating in the dose of Depakote and have overlooked
the effect on the phenytoin. It's worth asking a few questions in my opinion.
cancer man - 09 Dec 2006 23:55 GMT
yes (partials) just stop (dilantin)... will ask more about this thanks
and this (depakote) seams like its stronger ? maby just me but im still
takeing (dilantin) to
partials - 10 Dec 2006 03:55 GMT
> yes (partials) just stop (dilantin)... will ask more about this thanks
> and this (depakote) seams like its stronger ? maby just me but im still
> takeing (dilantin) to
If you mean you are feeling some effect from the Depakote when you say it is
stronger, it could be a combination of feeling the Depakote and also the
magnifying effect it is having on your phenytoin.
That business of just stopping the dilantin and the whole switchover program
doesn't sound right to me. Keep in mind that I could very well be wrong, but it
would be nice to have the reasons pointed out if that is the case. Please ask
questions!
When I switched from phenobarbital to dilantin a couple of years ago, I followed
this schedule: (D = Dilantin, P = phenobarbital)
Week 0, 3x64mg P What I had been taking.
Week 1, 3x64mg P, 2x100 D
Week 2, 2x64mg P, 3x100 D
Week 3, 1x64mg P, 4x100 D
Week 4, 0x64mg P, 4x100 D
Part of the reason for the length of time was that the phenobarbital I had been
taking has a very long life in the body. Nevertheless, the above schedule will
show you how a drug switchover is made with one drug ramping up and the other
ramping down gradually to nothing.
cancer man - 12 Dec 2006 06:38 GMT
they took me right off the depakote because i was geting sick and
throwing up and they said stay with the dilantin he said (doc ) so im
just going to see what happens now thanks group
partials - 12 Dec 2006 16:10 GMT
> they took me right off the depakote because i was geting sick and
> throwing up and they said stay with the dilantin he said (doc ) so im
> just going to see what happens now thanks group
Sorry to hear about that! How many Depakote pills per day had you gotten up to
before you got that sick?
partials - 20 Dec 2006 21:22 GMT
> they took me right off the depakote because i was geting sick and
> throwing up and they said stay with the dilantin he said (doc ) so im
> just going to see what happens now thanks group
Hi
I just wanted to check in with you and see how everything was going since we
haven't heard from you in a week or so now. Have you fully recovered from that
bout with the Depakote yet? Has your doctor suggested anything else that he
might offer you?
sagittarius lady - 26 Dec 2006 22:48 GMT
"Cancer man" passed away dec 16th..I was informed by a family friend..no
other details..he's at peace now
Jim - 27 Dec 2006 14:59 GMT
> "Cancer man" passed away dec 16th..I was informed by a family friend..no
> other details..he's at peace now
So sorry to hear about Cancer man and I'm sure like the others that we
hope he didn't suffer.
Jim
sagittarius lady - 27 Dec 2006 21:41 GMT
Thank you Jim
I think his family are the ones suffering and trying to cope with his
absence...It was a very sad holiday for all that knew him.
Thanks again for the concern and thoughts
Barbara
partials - 27 Dec 2006 20:40 GMT
> "Cancer man" passed away dec 16th..I was informed by a family friend..no
> other details..he's at peace now
Thank you for posting that. I had had a sinking feeling that something continued
to be terribly wrong after that problem with the new meds. I never imagined it
would come to this though. I'm very saddened, but prefer knowing.
sagittarius lady - 27 Dec 2006 21:37 GMT
You're welcome, Partials...I was apprehensive on posting that, but
wanted the group to know...I'm very saddened myself...he was my dear
friend..I spoke with him via phone that Friday (Dec 15th)..he usually
sends me an email just to say hello...when i didn't hear from him thru
that weekend..I had a feeling that something was wrong, I didn't expect
to hear that he died..I've known him since 2001 pre-epilepsy..I will
miss him
Thanks again for letting me share that
Barbara
G. - 28 Dec 2006 04:34 GMT
> You're welcome, Partials...I was apprehensive on posting that, but
> wanted the group to know...I'm very saddened myself...he was my dear
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thanks again for letting me share that
> Barbara
Hi. Thank you also for telling us. This is a difficult time to
experience sadness. I think we've only had one other member leave us
since about 1993. These don't get any easier it seems. I suppose
that's expected.
My deepest condolences to all his family and friends. I guess
this will be one of our tests to help keep the 'support' within the
nature of the group. We try where we can here. Sometimes it works for
us and sometimes it doesn't. Hopefully he's at peace. Gordon. /
sagittarius lady - 28 Dec 2006 20:51 GMT
Thank you Gordon
He was grateful having found the help and support the group
provided..I'm sure he's getting the peace he deserved.
Barbara
Hi cancer man
I've noticed other people using a certain website that interfaces with these
Usenet newsgroups. You might want to take a look at it and see what you think.
http://www.medkb.com/
The WebTV that you are using does not have a very friendly interface for these
newsgroups and the only way to quote the message that you are replying to is to
copy & paste. That's probably the main reason that you haven't been quoting. If
you use http://www.medkb.com/ the quoting is automatic and I think that you
would find the display to be more helpful to you yourself. It should be much
easier to look at with your WebTV than the way you're doing it right now.
cancer man - 12 Dec 2006 06:40 GMT