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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / November 2006

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dilantin and sleeping

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cancer man - 21 Nov 2006 07:33 GMT
iv had trouble sleeping well on this dilantin . and i informed my doc.
and he said it should help you sleep better?  and i all so dream a lot
when i do fall  a sleep. some times i wake up not knowing were im at. it
takes a little too come around. some of the dreams i have seam so real.
i told my doc about this and he said it should not do this.  any input
group?  thanks                         ( i have grand mal seizures and
complex partial seizures   dilantin is the only meds im takeing ) 500m a
day
G. - 21 Nov 2006 16:05 GMT
> iv had trouble sleeping well on this dilantin . and i informed my doc.
> and he said it should help you sleep better?  and i all so dream a lot
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> complex partial seizures   dilantin is the only meds im takeing ) 500m a
> day

  Someone else around might have more recent experience with Dilantin
(I was only able to use it under 6 mos. then had to more 'up' to
stronger meds. as it didn't work for me). Is there anything you take
close to bedtime that you could experiment (without). Most AEDs should
be taken with food or juice, but e.g. coffee or other things can affect
some people's sleep.
   *If you're remembering dreams, it usually means you're waking up
during them? -- ie restless sleep.  (The Dr. should know that :-< )
Supposedly we have 3-6 dreams a night during REM sleep (deeper sleep),
and only recall anything if we're disturbed while it's happening.  I
wondered if they'd want to try e.g. reducing AM dose a bit, and upping
the night dose to keep the same blood balance you have (if you're
controlled with it).  I'm not the Dr. but if the sleep disruption is
happening a lot, it can lower our szr. threshold the next day and make
us crankier than if we were getting a more restful night.  G./
cancer man - 22 Nov 2006 05:05 GMT
g im going too ask about that trying more meds at night thanks i will
ask the doc  thanks g
partials - 21 Nov 2006 16:29 GMT
> iv had trouble sleeping well on this dilantin .

Does that mean you have trouble falling asleep right after your head hits the
pillow? or does it mean that you frequently wake up or go to a half-awake
condition frequently? or both?

> and i informed my doc.
> and he said it should help you sleep better?  

That's been my general impression. I usually fall asleep immediately and usually
do so again if I have to get up in the middle of the night.

> and i all so dream a lot
> when i do fall  a sleep. some times i wake up not knowing were im at. it
> takes a little too come around. some of the dreams i have seam so real.

I also dream a lot and moreso than I used to it seems. They are not pleasant
dreams and I wish they would stop.

> i told my doc about this and he said it should not do this.  

<sarcasm & rant on> That was nice of him and really enlightening. I have similar
frustrating experiences. I will be talking to a doctor who has had all that
formal medical training, all those years of experience, treated a wide variety
of patients, and has access to all of the medical literature and he can't even
give an intelligent answer.  </sarcasm & rant off>

> any input group?  thanks

The human brain when it is awake is extremely complex and difficult to treat.
The human brain when it is asleep is a different beast and even more difficult
to treat. I've stopped looking to my doctor for help in that regard. Some things
that I look out for in the sleep category are to avoid drinking coffee too late
in the day and to get enough exercise. Getting a lot of exercise in a day
usually causes a good sound night's sleep.

> ( i have grand mal seizures and
> complex partial seizures   dilantin is the only meds im takeing ) 500m a
> day  

Not all "dilantin" is created equal and I'm not sure which one you use.
Sometimes people use the word "Dilantin" when they are actually talking about a
generic "phenytoin". The brand name one, Dilantin with a capital "D", is made by
Pfizer and I take the one that comes in 100 mg capsules that they call
"Kapseals". My doctor insists that I get those without any substitution of a
generic by the pharmacy. His reason lies in the effectiveness of the respective
drugs.

"phenytoin" with the lowercase "p" is the name of  any generic of Dilantin and a
number of companies make one. They can come in either an acid or salt form and
those give different results.

So, it isn't clear what your 500 mg amounts to. Do you know what your blood
serum level is? It's a number that is usually between 10-20 which is called the
therapeutic range. Through experience, they have determined that most people
need to be within that range to have their seizures controlled. My own level
hovers around the bottom end at 9-11 on 300 mg/day. Higher levels will cause
double vision and balance problems. I had simple and complex partial seizures
which are controlled by the Dilantin I mentioned in addition to 1800 mg/day of
Neurontin.
cancer man - 22 Nov 2006 05:10 GMT
the last time my blood was checked was at 11 then he raised it one pill
and yes i do take PHENYTION  the cheap one i hear  thanks  more calls
to day
dalekearney@eastlink.ca - 22 Nov 2006 01:00 GMT
HI there, i am 35 years old and i live in Canada. I have been on
Dilatin since about 2 years now. I am alos on 500mg a day. My wife
tells me i have seizures every night in my sleep. They seem to go from
small to large seizures in size. I have a medical service dog for my
epilepsy and she tends to wake me up when i am having a seizure by
whining. My doctor put me on sleeping pills  and an anastetic at night
to sleep. I have been on this combination for about 2 years now. I am
tired everyday, usually in the afternoons. My bloodwork was done and
everything seems normal but they have no idea why i am still having
seizures. My memory is shot and i am ow now longer able to work. You
can check out more on me and my progress on our website my wife made to
tell people how we are doing.

http://users.eastlink.ca/~dalekearney/

Dale Kearney

> iv had trouble sleeping well on this dilantin . and i informed my doc.
> and he said it should help you sleep better?  and i all so dream a lot
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> complex partial seizures   dilantin is the only meds im takeing ) 500m a
> day
cancer man - 22 Nov 2006 05:17 GMT
dale thanks im some what your way too tired in the mid day  my little
dog sleeps with me at night and well shes not traned for seizures but my
mom said i had a bad grand mal last week and well she did not want any
one around me iv woke up at night and she has been licking my face i
think she can tell  when im haveing one  im going too ask about  some
sleep aids thanks  dale
howdydave - 22 Nov 2006 17:55 GMT
Howdy!

I have given up any attempts at maintaining a
"normal sleep schedule." I get my 9 hours when
I get my 9 hours. If I don't get them all at once
I make up the difference at some time during
my day.

Dave
dalekearney@eastlink.ca - 22 Nov 2006 01:00 GMT
HI there, i am 35 years old and i live in Canada. I have been on
Dilatin since about 2 years now. I am alos on 500mg a day. My wife
tells me i have seizures every night in my sleep. They seem to go from
small to large seizures in size. I have a medical service dog for my
epilepsy and she tends to wake me up when i am having a seizure by
whining. My doctor put me on sleeping pills  and an anastetic at night
to sleep. I have been on this combination for about 2 years now. I am
tired everyday, usually in the afternoons. My bloodwork was done and
everything seems normal but they have no idea why i am still having
seizures. My memory is shot and i am ow now longer able to work. You
can check out more on me and my progress on our website my wife made to
tell people how we are doing.

http://users.eastlink.ca/~dalekearney/

Dale Kearney

> iv had trouble sleeping well on this dilantin . and i informed my doc.
> and he said it should help you sleep better?  and i all so dream a lot
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> complex partial seizures   dilantin is the only meds im takeing ) 500m a
> day
partials - 22 Nov 2006 01:30 GMT
> HI there, i am 35 years old and i live in Canada. I have been on
> Dilatin since about 2 years now. I am alos on 500mg a day. My wife
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> can check out more on me and my progress on our website my wife made to
> tell people how we are doing.

Hi Dale

You are showing classic symptoms of "sleep apnea". Do you snore at all in your
sleep? Have your doctors questioned you about such things at all? The tiredness
is one tipoff. The periodic episodes of low oxygen to your brain might well be
triggering seizures in my non-doctor opinion. This webpage gives the details:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/apnea.html

If any of this fits you, then you should have a "sleep study" (monitored
overnight in the hospital). Your neurologist can handle this if he is certified
in sleep medicine. Otherwise you will need to be referred to a pulmonologist for
the study. If the answer is yes and you do have OSA, then CPAP equipment may
cure your problem. Please say no to any suggested surgery.

Best wishes
 
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