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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / October 2006Convulsion vs. Seizure
Hi: Seizure = abnormal electric activity in brain Convulsion = involuntary muscle contraction Yet the terms "seizure" and "convulsion" are use interchangeably as if the mean the same thing -- when they are clearly different from each other. Why? Thanks, Radium > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the mean the same thing -- when they are clearly different from each > other. Why? Actually, I prefer the term "having a cow". -- Joe Legris I cut out these groups you **Crossposted this onto. Please *do not* re-insert the groups on *my reply, as it makes you sound like a Phisher, while you're probably not. You crossposted above subject to these groups --> alt.support.disorders.neurological,bionet.neuroscience,sci.med.pathology,alt.support.epilepsy,sci.med.nursing If someone does "Reply to Group", to **ANY of those over next 4-60 days, without their software Flagging and Pulling those Crossposts, their Email Addr.(without their consent) and Reply is posted onto **all groups listed, whether they're subscribed here or not. If you can't Cut and Paste the same message to each group separately, perhaps you should find a Dictionary. The extra groups just clutter up this one when someone not subscribed here replies, and keeps adding comments for the next 4-6 weeks on the thread. G./ ( See ****s reply below) > Hi: > Seizure = abnormal electric activity in brain *** Seizure= to Grab away from someone ***(seizure of his carrots)? The original in 1700s? referred to someone being Possessed (seized) by the Devil. Many words in English have multiple meanings depending on their context. Is that a problem [query, difficulty, concern, preoccupation] that might cause confusion (puzzlement, confounding, discomfort)? *** > Convulsion = involuntary muscle contraction *** Convulsion is not used in North America to describe an Ep. Seizure and hasn't for many years, or ever so far as I know. While it might be common in the UK or parts of Europe, so is "fit", which people use there (and sometimes on this group) in common parlance, but is not used often in other countries. > Yet the terms "seizure" and "convulsion" are use interchangeably as if > the mean the same thing -- when they are clearly different from each > other. Why? *** In what context are they 'clearly different from each other' ?? It would appear to be the context (above) or country where it is being used, as Potato, Potahto. So far as I recall, this is first set of posts where 'convulsion' has been actively used since <1998? They are describing outward symptoms caused by Neurological (mis)firing produced by injury, illness, or other effects that produce sporadic electrical firing in various areas of the brain (depending on the szr. type). G./ > Thanks, > Radium > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the mean the same thing -- when they are clearly different from each > other. Why? Because when one is having convulsions, he is having almost always seizures, too. Or, to put it another way, the convulsion is the activity you see, seizures are the brain activity that results in seizures. Not all seizures result in convulsions, however. Jeff > Thanks, > > Radium > > Hi: > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > the mean the same thing -- when they are clearly different from each > > other. Why? > Because when one is having convulsions, he is having almost always seizures, > too. Not necessarily AFAIK, seizures involving the motor cortex can cause convulsions. Problems with the spinal cord, peripheral nerves, and even the muscular mechanism itself -- can also cause involuntary muscle contractions. Yet I don't see *those* involuntary muscle contractions reffered to as "convulsions". Why?? > Or, to put it another way, the convulsion is the activity you see, seizures > are the brain activity that results in seizures. Involuntary muscle contractions can -- but aren't always -- caused by seizures. > Not all seizures result in convulsions, however. And given the dictionary definition of "convulsion" [i.e. involuntary muscle contractions], not all convulsions are caused by seizures. Yet the two terms are used almost interchangeably -- and in a very casual way. > Jeff > > > Thanks, > > > > Radium Howdy! As far as epilepsy is concerned, convultions are seizures that involve involuntary muscle contractions such as tonic-clonic seizures. Many seizure types have absolutely nothing to do with the muscular system -- epileptic seizures are due to an excessive amount of electirical activity in the brain. IOW: All epileptic convultions are seizures but not all epileptic seizures involve convultions. Dave > > > Hi: > > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > > > > Radium > Howdy! > > As far as epilepsy is concerned, convultions > are seizures that involve involuntary muscle > contractions such as tonic-clonic seizures. What if epilepsy is not involved?? > Many seizure types have absolutely nothing > to do with the muscular system -- epileptic > seizures are due to an excessive amount of > electirical activity in the brain. Yes. > IOW: All epileptic convultions are seizures > but not all epileptic seizures involve convultions. What about non-epileptic convulsions???? http://www.online-medical-dictionary.org/Non-Epileptic+Convulsion.asp?q=Non-Epil eptic+Convulsion Quote from the above site: "Convulsions may also occur in the absence of an electrical cerebral discharge" So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used interchangeably??? According to the quote, convulsions can and do occur even w/out seizure activity. > So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used interchangeably??? Because they aren't? What ever gave you the idea that they were? . > > So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used interchangeably??? > > Because they aren't? What ever gave you the idea that they were? > > . They *are* used interchangeably, despite they fact their definitions are *so* different from each either. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000021.htm quote: "The term 'convulsion' is often used interchangeably with 'seizure'" >>> So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used interchangeably??? >> Because they aren't? What ever gave you the idea that they were? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "The term 'convulsion' is often used interchangeably with 'seizure'" Yes, I see the problem. Their definition of convulsion is fine: "an abnormal violent and involuntary contraction or series of contractions of the muscles -- often used in plural <a patient suffering from convulsions>" It's one possible *symptom" of a seizure, but I think their dictionary writers were out to lunch when they wrote most of that. But why shouldn't epilepsy keep to its record for being one of the most misunderstood afflictions? . > >>> So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used interchangeably??? > >> Because they aren't? What ever gave you the idea that they were? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > . People who use the terms interchangably are either ignorant about what seizures are or they think that the person they are talking to is too ignorant to be able to differentiate between the two. Dave On 10/17/06 9:58 AM, in article 1161097095.748632.24360@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "howdydave" > People who use the terms interchangably are either ignorant > about what seizures are or they think that the person they > are talking to is too ignorant to be able to differentiate between > the two. > > Dave Of course it doesn't help when the main course of treatment for people who have "seizures" are medications called "anticonvulsants".  SignatureThe art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease. -- Voltaire >Of course it doesn't help when the main course of treatment for people who >have "seizures" are medications called "anticonvulsants". Try electro-convulsive therapy. Ralph > On 10/17/06 9:58 AM, in article > 1161097095.748632.24360@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "howdydave" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the disease. > -- Voltaire Howdy Rick! That's what happens when people take a technical term with a specific definition (in this case from pharmachology) and attempt to analyze it based on a non-technical, linguistic basis. Dave >> On 10/17/06 9:58 AM, in article >> 1161097095.748632.24360@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "howdydave" [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Dave He still has a point, in that (roughly considered) doctors more often than not overlook more or less preventable causes behind many disorders (or diseases). P >> >>> So why are the terms "convulsion" and "seizure" used >> >>> interchangeably??? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > are talking to is too ignorant to be able to differentiate between > the two. Or, alternatively, people use the terms correctly, but other people don't realize this and think they are being used interchangably. Jeff > Dave >> Howdy! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What if epilepsy is not involved?? Can you give an example? >> Many seizure types have absolutely nothing >> to do with the muscular system -- epileptic [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > According to the quote, convulsions can and do occur even w/out seizure > activity. >>> Howdy! >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Can you give an example? Here's one: http://www.aemj.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/3/296 > Concussive Convulsions Emergency Department Assessment and Management of a > Frequently Misunderstood [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Address for correspondence and reprints: Andrew D. Perron, MD, Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Orthopedic Surgery, Box 800699, Department of Emergency Medicine, University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA 22908. Fax: 804-924-2877; e-mail: adp9b@virginia.edu > Immediate concussive convulsions are an unusual but dramatic sequela to head injuries. Previously believed to be an epileptic phenomenon, they are now thought to be a brief traumatic functional decerebration that results from loss of cortical inhibition. With concussive convulsions generally occurring within seconds of head impact and lasting up to several minutes, patients are initially in a tonic phase, followed by a clonic convulsion. A postictal phase is generally brief if it occurs at all with these episodes. Patients with isolated concussive convulsions have no evidence of structural brain injury as assessed with neuroimaging studies or physical examination. Neuropsychological testing often demonstrates transient cortical dysfunction consistent with the concussive episode. The long-term outcome for patients with isolated concussive convulsion is universally good, with no long-term neurologic sequelae and no increased incidence of early or late posttraumatic epilepsy. Emergency department management should focus on evaluation of the associated concussive injury. The concussive convulsion requires no specific therapy, and antiepileptic medication is not indicated. > Key words: concussion; concussive convulsion; brain injury; head injury; posttraumatic epilepsy > >>> Howdy! > >>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Key words: concussion; concussive convulsion; brain injury; head injury; > posttraumatic epilepsy Here are two more example of non-seizure convulsions: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/130/1/68 http://www.springerlink.com/index/WL220372R6537X11.pdf > > >>> Howdy! > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/130/1/68 **G.* For any who might be sensitive***** this site describes in detail effects of decapitating animals and how seizures are produced there. // See my comment at bottom. // > http://www.springerlink.com/index/WL220372R6537X11.pdf G.--> I must remember the next time I have a seizure to tell the Doctor that I'm not a decapitated cat--- (first of the 2 sites you listed above)... I don't follow what the **value is of differentiating (for most of us) between a Convulsion (likely an older term used generally before the causes were able to be measured by MRIs, CT Scans and other means), and Seizures, which most of us use here who have had. If people post here from other countries and say they've had a history of convulsions (or in some cases fits), I can understand what they are trying to communicate and look for some sites that might be of help to them, to deal with their concerns, or treatment they could look into. I don't need to tell them, "Yes, but Fits can also apply to a Shirt or Shoes, are you Sure you've had one and it's not a tight shoe that's causing it? " :-< I don't think an extensive review of semantics that might be different in some countries around the world (~12 timezones), versus what original poster started with at Subject Line here, really helps someone newly diagnosed or seeking information wrt. living with epilepsy. That's the main reason I never posted on this thread before, or henceforth. G./ > > > "Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message <Deleted all> You XXXXX TROLL --> I sent that reply in good faith to you without opening the Google headers to see You had ***Crossposted this Junk onto these Newsgroups (below). WHY DON"T YOU GO OUT INTO TRAFFIC or find something to do? I sure will. THIS IS THE GROUP-list YOU CROSSPOSTED YOUR THREAD ONTO --> (glucegen1 at excite.com is masked inside the <>s below ) Email: "Radium" <gluceg...@excite.com> Groups: alt.support.disorders.neurological, bionet.neuroscience, sci.med.pathology, alt.support.epilepsy, sci.med.nursing ******************************************************************************* I REMOVED the other Groups on this reply. Don't put them back. This is the source of the earlier Spam loads I posted about earlier today (below). If you can't post those to groups specific to the question or comment, or separately, Go somewhere else. ***I DIDN't want to be on a Nursing, Bionet, or Med. Pathology Group you Troll. G./ // >> > Hi: >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > the two terms are used almost interchangeably -- and in a very casual > way. That's because almost all the time, when people speek of convulsions, there is seizure activity. Jeff >> Jeff >> >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Radium
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