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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / June 2006The History of God
Someone in the "About Arguments" thread mentioned reading the book: "The History of God". Sitting in a Philadelphia park recently, my curiousity was stimulated as I noticed a neighbor reading a book of that title. I inquired if the book took up the subject of why human beings are attracted by the notion of a God. He replied that as far as he had read, the book was merely tracing the history of the various religions during the course of human history. He mentioned Islam, Judaism and Christianity. As I sat back to ponder the subject, two streams of thought emerged. The first was the notion of authority. When a child asks where the Universe comes from, the self-respecting adult who likes to be seen as a self-confident knowledgable person is served by being able to respond that God made the Universe - God made the stars and the earth and all the living things. If the adult can't give such an answer then he/she will be seen as treading in the murky mush of mystery. Besides the subject of authority, there is the subject of morality and ethics. It is most convenient to associate with the ultimate authority the basic attributes of human behavior which create a viable, progressive and self-nurturing society. Good basic stuff like "Do unto others" and The Commandments. It's a good solid package and we moderns might be grateful that our forebears had the creativity to come up with such a brilliant vision. > Someone in the "About Arguments" thread mentioned reading the book: > "The History of God". That was me. > Sitting in a Philadelphia park recently, my curiousity was stimulated > as I noticed a neighbor reading a book of that title. I inquired if > the book took up the subject of why human beings are attracted by the > notion of a God. He replied that as far as he had read, the book was > merely tracing the history of the various religions during the course > of human history. He mentioned Islam, Judaism and Christianity. It is primarily about the monotheistic religions than sprang from the same roots. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity fall into that category. I learned a lot about the possible roots of those religions (Greek theology and pagan gods) and Islam itself. It wasn't anything like what Dan Brown wrote in the "DaVinci Code". It's interesting that this book was written in the early 90's, a decade before the current issues with the DaVinci Code or with Islam. The author was once a Roman Catholic Nun, she teaches (taught in '93) "the study of Judaism and the training of Rabbis and Teachers". She is also an authority on Islam. And she is Epileptic. I know this is contrary to many personal beliefs here in this group, but it does portray how some people are affected by Epilepsy. Take it with a grain of salt or skip it completely. I am not trying to offend anyone here. Please don't take it the wrong way. From the introduction of the book: "As an Epileptic I had flashes of vision that I knew to be a mere neurological defect: had the visions and raptures of the saints also been a mere mental quirk?" This sentence hit me hard because it echoed my own thoughts. I am sure it is the roots of my own doubt which started as Atheism (real strong) and now ends up with the acceptance of a creator (Deus ex Machina). While it is not Christianity yet, if the "word" is true I will get there. > As I sat back to ponder the subject, two streams of thought emerged. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the living things. If the adult can't give such an answer then he/she > will be seen as treading in the murky mush of mystery. My personal religion (Deism) talks a lot about "revealed" religions and how we all must resolve those questions ourselves-- we shouldn't accept an answer from a book or a speaker without question. The adult, especially the parents of the child, should guide the child to finding his or her own answer. > Besides the subject of authority, there is the subject of morality and > ethics. It is most convenient to associate with the ultimate authority > the basic attributes of human behavior which create a viable, > progressive and self-nurturing society. Good basic stuff like "Do unto > others" and The Commandments. Most Deist I know (virtually) rely on the NT for moral guidance. Pieces of the OT is accepted like half of the Ten Commandments. (Half is about how to worship God and the rest are about how to act as a human being in a moral manner) > It's a good solid package and we moderns might be grateful that our > forebears had the creativity to come up with such a brilliant vision. No doubt. Unfortunately, it has been spoiled by humans (in my views). I would enjoy a theistic debate, but it would only border on the topic here-- epilepsy. So if you participate please try to mention how your epilepsy is connected to your religious beliefs.  SignatureDave Keays Howdy! My big question started out as something to the effect: "Are these flashes of insight that I get through epilepsy mere quirks or a bit of clarity that may others don't have the opportunity to see?" Is it a fog or a flash of clear insight that allows me to see THROUGH the fog? Once you have answered that question for yourself you go on from there. Dave > > Someone in the "About Arguments" thread mentioned reading the book: > > "The History of God". [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > epilepsy. So if you participate please try to mention how your epilepsy is > connected to your religious beliefs. > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is it a fog or a flash of clear insight that allows me to > see THROUGH the fog? That definitely could be. I've pondered the thought tremendously. But so far I've had no indication that my sensory synthesis and Deja feelings (to name but a few) are divinely inspired. I wish they were but I have no reason to think so except for my own self esteem. My understanding is that the whole limpic system (temporal lobe included) controls our perception of emotions and senses so random defects coming from there could very likely appear to be "reality" to us. Since these observations can be unwittingly altered by the observer, any conclusions the observer comes to based on them is in question. I have chosen another explanation that I don't think is prone to distortion. Saying that these feelings have spiritual meaning is just like saying Epileptics are possessed by demons. I see no reason to think I am possessed by good spirits or by bad ones (demons). A question I have: I believe the hippocampus controls our sense of priority/importance of sensory input. So when I saw the awe and importance in a lamppost I assumed it to be some misfiring in my hippocampus. How far off do others think my conclusion is? Is there a medical label that describes this phenomenon? > Once you have answered that question for yourself you > go on from there. [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] >> epilepsy. So if you participate please try to mention how your epilepsy is >> connected to your religious beliefs. SignatureDave Keays Here's something you might be interested in. Michael Persinger started his current research into the sensory effects of stimulation of the temporal lobe by electromagnetic stimulation through the skull after examining epileptics who had a devine feeling or sensed ghosts as part of their temporal lobe seizures. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html You can do a Google search for Persinger and "sensed presence" for more information. Some of it has hijacked his work to explain aliens and ESP and so on, but some of it is actually scientific too. At the very least, it's interesting. His work has recently been examined in a fascinating book called "Spook" by Mary Roach, which looks at the scientific examination of the soul. One of Persinger's lectures ("Is God all in our head?") was recently broadcast on television here and you can listen to it on the station's web site. Look at Saturday April 29. The introduction and wrap-up by Dr. Robert Buckman is very entertaining and interesting and attempts to put Persinger's research into perspective. There were many epileptologists in the audience. Unfortunately, Persinger's lecture is a bit complex at times but his quotes from people undergoing magnetic stimulation are nifty. http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?bigideas_pastepisodes Brian >> Howdy! >> [quoted text clipped - 138 lines] >>> is >>> connected to your religious beliefs. > Here's something you might be interested in. Michael Persinger started his > current research into the sensory effects of stimulation of the temporal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?bigideas_pastepisodes I've read Persinger's works. His studies and the TLS inducing helmet is definately interesting. But right now I want to hear from other people to have to live with partial-complex seizures. How are our beliefs shaped by the strange feelings caused by our seizures and the medication to control them? Also, I doubt if his works are going to be read by people who already have decided to take an opposite approach. To some degree he is "preaching to the choir" (pun not intended). "Is god all in your head" doesn't sound like a nuetral study and it is already offensive to some. I'm more reluctant to bring this evidence up until I know it will be read. Mary Roach's book is new to me. I'll have to check it out. Thanks This is an important issue with me and I would like to hear about others take on the situation. > Brian > [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] >>>> is >>>> connected to your religious beliefs. SignatureDave Keays Howdy Dave! There may not be a simple yes/no answer to "Was it divinely inspired?" The answer may be an entire revamp or a preson's concept of divinity! Is God a supreme entity existing "out there someplace?" or Will I find God and the entire universe within my Self? n.b.; Capital "S" in Self. Epilepsy makes for a great Jnani! Dave > > Howdy! > > [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > >> epilepsy. So if you participate please try to mention how your epilepsy is > >> connected to your religious beliefs. My dictionary has no entry for "jnani." I hope the meaning of the word might be explained. I've been away from alt.support.epilepsy for some time. I recall my last post when I raised the subject of a sense of "new eyes" following a seizure. I was presenting this sense of a new awakening as a positive effect of seizures. I recall the level of anger that erupted for having associated anything positive with epilepsy. That is why I am intrigued by the hints of spiritual effects being alluded to here on this thread - a sense of doors being opened to deeper meanings. Though I have become a social conformist in trying to control my seizures through medication, I do miss seizures when the drugs sometimes have their intended effect. I believe I may have stated earlier that if I were responsible for the creation of humans with all their incredible complexities, that I would have designed seizures into the vital broth as some kind of insurance policy that these sophisticated creatures might have a continuing ability to renew themselves. Howdy Tim! A Jnani is a practitioner of Jnana Yoga (also spelled gyana.) Jnana is one of the 4 basic types of yoga: Raja, Karma, Bhakti & Jnana. A jnani is a seeker of the truth by way of personal investigation and personal insight. One of the reasons I used this reference is due to the fact that most of us with epilepsy have had the experience (more than once) where doctor's are telling us that some of our epileptic experiences didn't/couldn't happen. We know better... It's a matter of "personal experience" v. "dogma." In this case dogma is: "That's not the way it is because my professor in medical school said something different!" BTW: When in doubt, do a Google search. Dave > My dictionary has no entry for "jnani." I hope the meaning of the word > might [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > ability > to renew themselves. Howdy Tim! A Jnani is a practitioner of Jnana Yoga (also spelled gyana.) Jnana is one of the 4 basic types of yoga: Raja, Karma, Bhakti & Jnana. I pirated this from http://www.jnani.org/jnani.html "Jnani individuals make their initial response to the spiritual through the mind; their attitude is one of enquiry and doubt; their stance is aggressive in that they wish to penetrate the divine; their instinct is to understand." One of the reasons I referred to Jnani is due to the fact that most of us with epilepsy have had the experience (more than once) where doctor's are telling us that some of our epileptic experiences didn't/couldn't happen. i.e.; "Calling you a liar!" We know better... It's a matter of "personal experience" v. "dogma." In this case dogma is: "That's not the way it is because my professor in medical school said something different!" BTW: When in doubt about a word, do a Google search. Dave > My dictionary has no entry for "jnani." I hope the meaning of the word > might [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > ability > to renew themselves. > My dictionary has no entry for "jnani." I hope the meaning of the word > might [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doors > being opened to deeper meanings. I hope you didn't hesitate too much because of others. I get dumped on now and then to. So what? Sometimes when people dis you, you have to think about what you are doing and end-up learning more or seeing your actions in a slightly different way. > Though I have become a social conformist in trying to control my > seizures through medication, I do miss seizures when the drugs > sometimes have their intended effect. Sometimes medication is necessary. But sometimes the side-effects are too unbearable. Only you and your doctor can decide. You are not being a social conformist if you are willing to question both your doctor and the non-conformist ways. Many people say your doctor must be a partner. For that to be true, your thoughts must be considered also. > I believe I may have stated earlier that if I were responsible for the > creation of humans with all their incredible complexities, that I would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ability > to renew themselves. Does renew mean being "born again" or being converted? To me the mind (the abstract center of thought) is just as complex as the brain (the physical center of thought). Neither can be truly guessed by humans. That is why both Neurologists and Philosophers struggle so hard to define and to control the blemishes of the mind/brain. SignatureDave Keays > Howdy Dave! > > There may not be a simple yes/no answer to > "Was it divinely inspired?" That was just a starting place for a discussion on this topic and is aimed more for western religions. In the non-dualistic religions in the east much of the issue is a mute question. For example: demonic possession > The answer may be an entire revamp or a preson's > concept of divinity! I know. That is one reason I included my idea of divinity. > Is God a supreme entity existing "out there someplace?" > or > Will I find God and the entire universe within my Self? > n.b.; Capital "S" in Self. Or as you suggested; is God a fatherly figure like in monotheistic religions or something else. > Epilepsy makes for a great Jnani! My understanding of Sanskrit doesn't include Jnani, but I do know the verb "Jnana". Are you speaking of a spiritually devoted and knowledgeable person? Someone who is trying to obtain Moksha thru Jnana Yoga. > Dave [snip] SignatureDave Keays Howdy Dave! Jnani is to Jnana as Yogi is to Yoga. I don't know whether I'd say: "...spiritually devoted and knowledgeable person" As much as "dedicated to obtaining knowledge (or "The Truth") for him/herself. i.e.; Knowledge as opposed to dogma or doctrine. Dave > > Howdy Dave! > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > [snip] > Howdy Dave! > > Jnani is to Jnana > as > Yogi is to Yoga. That is what I thought. But since it wasn't in any dictionaries I looked at on the internet or on paper I had to figure it out myself. I decided to ignore the possibility that it was just feminizing the root Jnana. When I looked in the Oxford Hindi-English dictionary I still couldn't find anything with that romanticized spelling. Google can find "jnani" but I don't trust it. Google is almost useless because of the huge number of incorrect hits. I only use it to find a direction to steer my research towards. google is to search engines what spam is to email. > I don't know whether I'd say: > > "...spiritually devoted and knowledgeable person" > > As much as "dedicated to obtaining knowledge > (or "The Truth") for him/herself. Ok, I guess I was a little to vague there. > i.e.; Knowledge as opposed to dogma or doctrine. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> >> [snip] SignatureDave Keays Howdy Dave! Actually, as far as search engines go, I prefer: http://www.ixquick.com myself! Dave > > Howdy Dave! > > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >>> > >> [snip] > Howdy Dave! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave Thanks. I tried it and so far it is impressive for a metasearch. I'll book mark it! >>> Howdy Dave! >>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >>>>> >>>> [snip] SignatureDave Keays
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