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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / April 2006

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Hello and some questions

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David Walker - 15 Apr 2006 04:28 GMT
Hello, this is my first time here.  I have some basic questions that maybe
the community could help me answer.  I haven't asked a doctor about any of
this (yet).  

I'm a 47 year old male, generally good health.  About once or twice a week,
usually while falling asleep at night, I will feel a gradual-onset kind of
thing that turns into what I would describe as an electrical storm in my
brain.  (Sounds like a seizure, eh?)  It happens more often when I'm really
tired when going to bed.

I can't move while this is happening, and the "pulses" are always about 4
per second.  (Aren't theta waves about that frequency?)

I can feel the pulses in my brain, and sort-of hear them also, and usually
also I can feel echoes of the pulses in my hands or other parts of my body.  
If I try to move, the pulses get stronger, and if I relax and stop trying
to move, the pulses often (but not always) recede after a few minutes.  
Eventually they will stop and I can move, or I will try hard enough to move
that I can "break through" and when that happens, the pulses will stop.  
The whole episode usually lasts just a few minutes (maybe 3 or 4 minutes).

I'm completely conscious but can't move during these episodes.  I have read
about sleep paralysis (or sleep-onset paralysis) but what I have read about
that doesn't mention a strong feeling of electrical-type pulsing in the
brain to go along with the sleep-onset paralysis.

Sometimes there is a metallic taste in my mouth when all this is over.  

It doesn't seem really serious, but it's somewhat uncomfortable and I
wonder if this is a condition that might have a name?  I can't be the only
person who has ever had this happen, I'm sure.  

The only thing is that a couple of times the pulses got so strong that they
felt like electrical zaps in my brain, and I was seeing flashes of light at
the same frequency as the pulses, and I was worried that I might be frying
some brain cells.

History: This happened for a few years when I was about 16, and then mostly
stopped until the last couple of years.

Is this a kind of seizure?  Any comments?  Places to look for information?

Thanks.

David W.
howdydave - 15 Apr 2006 15:53 GMT
Howdy David!

Next time it happens check your heart rate to see if the
"pulsing" may merely be high blood pressure. If the pulses
in your head match the pulse in your wrist, you may just be feeling the
blood pump through your head.

Dave
Julie - 15 Apr 2006 18:50 GMT
> Hello, this is my first time here.  I have some basic questions that maybe
> the community could help me answer.  I haven't asked a doctor about any of
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> David W.
I was thinking a similar thought to Dave's about the pulse relating to
your heart beat, but when you said there was a metallic taste, it
reminded me of seizures.  If I was you I would report exactly what you
reported to us to your doctor, everything you said seems very relevant
to help a doctor in determining what is going on.

As far as the electrical zaps in the brain this doesn't sound familiar
to me.  Anyone else recognize this feeling?

The flashes of light do sound familiar.  Before I have a seizure I have
an aura which can include feeling dizzy, I see stars or lights in my
eyes, and start to hear a tingly fuzzy high pitched noise (which
basically means I'm either going to faint or have a seizure, so I better
 get to the floor).

Take care,
Julie, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
Mike Kelliher - 16 Apr 2006 14:54 GMT
It sounds like it could be many things. Yes theta waves are 4-7 but I doubt
very much you are sensing theta waves. It does have some similarities to
sleep paralysis. This disorder is a REM sleep disorder as we become
paralyzed during REM sleep, so this would account not being able to move.
People will actually start to dream when they are awake. Another part of
this disorder is the hallucinations (dreaming while awake). Narcolepsy can
be different with everybody but this may be seizures also.
Seizures are more likely to happen during the transition from wake to sleep.
The fatigue taxes the brain and can cause seizures. It sounds like you may
want to see a neurologist who specializes in sleep also. They would know
about Narcolepsy and other sleep problems.
Good Luck
Mike

> Hello, this is my first time here.  I have some basic questions that maybe
> the community could help me answer.  I haven't asked a doctor about any of
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> David W.
David Walker - 17 Apr 2006 01:53 GMT
> It sounds like it could be many things. Yes theta waves are 4-7 but I
> doubt very much you are sensing theta waves. It does have some
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> sleep problems. Good Luck
> Mike

Thanks to everyone who answered.  I don't think it's my pulse, since I
am sometimes aware of my pulse at the same time (lately I can hear it in
my right ear) and my pulse is not 4 times per second.  The pulses are
definitely electrical-feeling and they are in my brain.

If I don't find anything more out, I'll have to check with a
neurologist.  

David
Dave Keays - 17 Apr 2006 17:11 GMT
>> It sounds like it could be many things. Yes theta waves are 4-7 but I
>> doubt very much you are sensing theta waves. It does have some
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> my right ear) and my pulse is not 4 times per second.  The pulses are
> definitely electrical-feeling and they are in my brain.

I don't believe we can feel anything in our brain. For us to know, we have to
notice the manifestations someplace else. At least my experiences seems to align
itself with some old wisdom here. I hope the wisdom hasn't seen a new release
lately.

> If I don't find anything more out, I'll have to check with a
> neurologist.  
>
> David

Signature

Dave Keays

Paul F - 17 Apr 2006 18:44 GMT
>Hello, this is my first time here.  I have some basic questions that maybe
>the community could help me answer.  I haven't asked a doctor about any of
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
>David W.

David,
I have had exactly the same symptoms as you described for the past 15 or
so years. In 1995 I was diagnosed with epilepsy after undergoing a sleep
deprived EEG (the standard EEG didn't show a thing!).

Even to this day I'm not that happy about the diagnosis as the 'pulses'
in the head never seem to get mentioned in any epilepsy resources. If
you want, send me a private email to discuss, I've never met anyone with
exactly the same symptoms! You can send an email to kissinuk (at)
hotmail.co.uk if you like.

Cheers,

Paul.
Paul F - 17 Apr 2006 23:52 GMT
>David,
>I have had exactly the same symptoms as you described for the past 15
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Paul.

Incidentally, here is a link to a post I made back in 2001 regarding the
same issue, you are certainly not the only person with it!

http://tinyurl.com/pvxkm
Me - 25 Apr 2006 04:49 GMT
> Hello, this is my first time here.  I have some basic questions that maybe
> the community could help me answer.  I haven't asked a doctor about any of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> really
> tired when going to bed.

snip
I snipped quite a bit, but you need to see a neurologist.  Tell him
*everything*
you feel even if you it seems unrelated.  My wife says my seizures usually
happen after a day of a lot of excerise or stress.

The first thing that came to my mind when you said metallic taste was
thirst.  Profound snoring can dry the mouth as well.  Do you have a partner?
If so, have that person take some mental notes of these events and write
them down the next day.

This a good place to talk, but you should see a doctor.

> David W.
Mike Kelliher - 25 Apr 2006 16:57 GMT
There is one more thing this sounds like, something I just read about.
Stopping antidepressants such as SSRIs (Prozac and others) can cause a
similiar side effect. They said this can last for 3 to 18 months.
Seeing that so many people are on it, thought I might mention it.
Mike
Mike Kelliher - 25 Apr 2006 17:09 GMT
NOT SSRIs -SNRIs- !

More info than you probably wanted but.....oh well.

Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are a class of
antidepressant used in the treatment of clinical depression and other
affective disorders. They are also sometimes used to treat anxiety
disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity
disorder (ADHD) and chronic neuropathic pain. They act upon two
neurotransmitters in the brain that are known to play an important part in
mood, namely, serotonin and norepinephrine. This can be contrasted with the
more widely-used selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which act
only on serotonin.

The abbreviation "SNRI" is also used to mean selective norepinephrine
reuptake inhibitor, which can be confusing.

Activity on norephinephine reuptake is thought necessary for an
antidepressant to be effective on neuropathic pain, a property shared with
the older tricyclic antidepressants but not with the SSRIs.

Depression is thought to be caused by a lack of information flow between
neurons in certain parts of the brain. Neurons pass information to each
other by means of chemicals known as neurotransmitters, which shoot across
the tiny synapses between the cells. After firing, most of the
neurotransmitter is reabsorbed by the presynaptic cell in a process called
reuptake.

Antidepressants work by increasing the amount of neurotransmitters active in
the synapse, thereby enhancing neuronal activity and increasing the
responsiveness of mood. Modern antidepressants usually achieve this effect
by blocking the transporter proteins that reabsorb certain neurotranmitters,
hence the name "reuptake inhibitors".

SNRIs were developed more recently than SSRIs, and there are relatively few
of them. Their efficacy as well as their tolerability appears to be somewhat
better than the SSRIs, owing to their compound effect. It is expected that
most future antidepressants will probably work on multiple
neurotransmitters, like the SNRIs and novel antidepressants such as
bupropion (tradenames Wellbutrin® and Zyban®).

Extreme caution should be used when considering the clinical use of these
drugs, specifically Cymbalta and Effexor, as the withdrawals may be
uncomfortable. Several cases of people coming off of the medications have
had seizures, nausea and vomiting, diarhea, among other neurological
problems which include what is commonly called "Brain Zaps." Described as a
burst of static exploding into the brain, causing doubled vision, light and
sound sensitivity, and a feeling of 'bugs' crawling all over the body. The
symptoms of withdrawal can last anywhere from three (3) to eighteen (18)
months. As of yet, there is no known cure for these symptoms. NOTE: There
are no documents referenced to support such extreme "withdrawal". Do NOT use
this information as accurate medical information. Check with your Doctor,
and ask them for a package insert with details ALL side effects.

SNRIs currently available
 a.. venlafaxine (tradename Effexor ®) is the first and most commonly used
SNRI. Although it also works on dopamine somewhat at high dosages, the
majority of its effect is on serotonin and norepinephrine.
 a.. nefazodone (tradename Serzone ®) is an antidepressant with efficacy
similar to SSRIs, but without the sexual size effects. In fact, serzone at
times may act similar to Wellbutrin in it's neutral, or at times positive
effect on function. It has been discontinued in several countries due to
rare cases of liver failure.
However, the liver failure is rare, and a simple blood test every 6 months
to assess liver enzyme levels is sufficient. Nefazodone has an active
metabolite which at higher doses (> 250mg/day) can increase anxiety. Effexor
is the "newer" version of Serzone, while Cymbalta is the "newer" version of
Effexor. These drugs have been considered a second tier drug for treating
less severe Adult ADHD, because they combine the Serotonine re-uptake
inhibition (successful in treating some anxiety/depression and Obsessive
Compulsive Personality, or the "ruminating" done in ADHD patients, with the
Norepinephrine, stimulant effect. NOTE: Only an experience Psychiatrist that
specialized in ADHD, should discuss these potential uses. This information
is NOT to be used as any source to suggest a medication for any disease.

 a.. milnacipran (tradename Dalcipran ®/ Portugal; Ixel ®/ France) has
shown to be significantly effective in the treatment of depression and
Fibromyalgia syndrome (FMS). Although it has not yet been approved by the
FDA for use in the United States, it has been commercially available in
Europe and Asia for several years.
 a.. desipramine (tradenames Norpramine ®, Pertofraneis ®) is technically a
tricyclic antidepressant, and is usually categorized as such. It works,
however, on both serotonin and norepinephrine, so it can also be considered
an SNRI.
 a.. duloxetine (tradename Cymbalta ®) is a new SNRI by Eli Lilly and
Company, and has been approved for the treatment of depression and
neuropathic pain in August of 2004.
However it is controversial whether desipramine, nefazodone and mirtazepine
are true SNRIs.

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