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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / April 2006Deja Vu's - What are they?
The term "Deja vu" is one that I have frequently heard mentioned associated with seizures in this newsgroup and on epilepsy message boards. I've never seen anyone explain what they meant by the use of that term though and its dictionary definition doesn't agree with the feelings I have, so I've always thought that I didn't have what people were calling a "deja vu". But I've been wondering. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: déjà vu NOUN: 1. Psychology The illusion of having already experienced something actually being experienced for the first time. 2. An impression of having seen or experienced something before. I've experienced that and I think we all have. I've had the experience, for example, of visiting a city where I had never been before and yet feeling as though I had visited it because many things seemed so familiar. That's what I have always called "deja vu" and I haven't experienced that from my epilepsy. What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster here is a strong flashback memory of some previous time. In my case, it's usually a flashback of an aura that I was having sometime when I was much much younger. The flashbacks are fairly vivid and are almost like a movie being played back. Is that what people mean when they say "deja vu"? I'm not here to quarrel over dictionary definitions and whether or not the term is being used accurately. I would just simply like to know what people mean when they use the term as it's probably the same experience that I've been having as one of the symptoms of my epilepsy. Déjà vu has little to do with epilepsy--causes, triggers, manifestations. It is an extremely common occurence, and while people may think it unique to them in the beginning, especially as children, they certainly find eventually that all persons will experience it in one way or another throughout the course of their lives. It is jolting emotionally when you first experiencne it, thinking that you have some sort of unique connection to the "supernatural", "ESP", or any of a number of various pseudo-mental experiences. All it really amounts to is a form of jestering by the brain; taking a time out to have some fun, in a sense with a few senses. The brain is such a cunundrum for us, we tend to impute ideals and occurences that seem supernatural and spiritual to some because we haven't discovered just what the big blob of mush in a skull is really capable of. Being a seriously religious person myself (Catholic), an epileptic, with a few other problems on top of that, and someone more prone to believe that a splotch on a coffee shop wall that may reflect a Madonna is simply a splotch on a coffee shop wall ("Someone should clean the lightbulbs"), the more common tricks of the brain don't impress me anymore. Listening to people in prayer groups talk about being cured of cancer because the lump they felt the week before turned out to be gas or a backed up colon and didn't show on the X-Ray a week later annoys me; it distracts from the real purpose of living a profound experience of God, however the concept appeals to us, and pushes real problems like seizure disorders, diabetes, profound physical disability off to the side. I always note that no one has ever claimed at these prayer sessions to be cured of seizures. All of you know, as I do, that to claim such a thing is silly, because the seizures aren't the problem so much as the predisposition of the brain to succumb--some of us are more liable to eat carpet fibers than some others. What does impress me, is falling out of bed, crawling and eating carpet fibers on my way to the bathroom, then sitting on the toilet with my head and torso bent over on the tub rim, until I crawl back to bed, unable to move--frozen in time if you will--spending 15 mins. trying to climb into it, only to find out that 2hrs has gone by since I initially fell out of bed. Now, because I live alone that scares me; déjà vu is a tingle of pleasure compared to that. Have fun!! And before you claim any cures, get a medical opinion and signed affidavit.  Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== > The term "Deja vu" is one that I have frequently heard > mentioned associated with seizures in this newsgroup and on [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > same experience that I've been having as one of the symptoms of > my epilepsy. Howdy! Deja vu in reference to epilepsy is just one of the many different types of SENSATIONS that a person may feel during a simple partial seizure. I believe that deja vu is usually associated with LEFT temporal lobe epilepsy. If a person has RIGHT temporal lobe epilepsy they may get a sensation of JAMAIS VU (being unfamilier with common surroundings.) Since I have TLE in both temporal lobes I have experienced both sensations during simple partial seizures. It all depended on which lobe was experiencing the epileptic activity at the time. In different people, simple partial seizures may cause any number of different sensations associated with any of the senses (sight, sound, taste, touch & smell.) Dave > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > get a sensation of JAMAIS VU (being unfamilier with common > surroundings.) **G* Other way around ! My damage is in the Right T.Lobe and the Aura (Simple Partial) I get is of a Deja Vu, sometimes it came with an aroma or taste of Lemon or Sourness. *Left T.Lobe simple partial is supposed to produce the Jamais Vu, sometimes with a taste or aroma that's Acrid or Eggy. I preferred (looking back) the Lemon to Eggy, but didn't like the feeling anyway, and don't get those now that mine are controlled. The Deja Vu is a very Profound Feeling, to earlier poster who thought they didn't exist or were fake? As I got nearer full control (with pills), my Auras moved from seconds in time, ahead of a Stronger seizure (I had Complex Partials soon after the S.Partial Aura), to 5-10 minutes, to longer as stronger seizures finally were controlled. You can be in a store you've never been in, or someplace that's new and feel SURE you've already been here, and can predict what is around the corner, or what will occur next. It was a sensation that 'seers' of olde supposedly had sometimes, before the nature of seizures were understood medically. It's also a handy *non-invasive way to know which T.Lobe is affected without needing surgery or (sometimes) MRIs etc. to tell which Lobe is affected by the electrical firings. In Dave's case he had *both (below), but for those of us lucky enough to have just the One type of Aura, they had started me on medications before all the results from the EEGs and MRIs were back yet. G./ > Since I have TLE in both temporal lobes I have experienced both > sensations during simple partial seizures. It all depended on which [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > taste, touch & smell.) > Dave <snipped> > You can be in a store you've never been in, or someplace that's new > and feel SURE you've already been here, and can predict what is around > the corner, or what will occur next. Ok thanks! That's the part that answers my question. That follows the classical definition of deja vu and is similar to my 'strange city' example. I don't know anybody who hasn't experienced those at some point in their life. My own sensation during many auras are like those that Mike reported in his recent "Memory" posts: "Then for the next few day up untill today I experience memories and feelings from years ago, but forget what I did last week.". In retrospect, I've had simple partials all my life. A modern day aura will include a strong memory being forced into my consciousness of one or the other of those earlier seizures. It just all comes along with the seizure. Even now that I am controlled by drugs, I sometimes get one of these memories and that tells me that there must still be some minor seizure activity. So mine (and Mike's) are NOT deja vu as you folks have described it. That, naturally, doesn't mean that we couldn't have a true deja vu at some point, but means that what we have described is not a deja vu. Howdy! Sounds like you're talking about FLASHBACKS! > Howdy! > > Sounds like you're talking about FLASHBACKS! That's a good word for them! What I hadn't known until I asked just now, was if they were what others were having and calling a Deja Vu. That can happen in the use of words. From the answers that have been received in this thread, people are using the term correctly according to its classical definition. The FLASHBACKS that I get come along with a Simple Partial just as some people smell strange odors and taste unusual tastes. As the seizure builds up to a crescendo, the memory and feeling plus the visual memory of a seizure from the past takes over the consciousness as the seizure climaxes and ends. > Howdy! > > Sounds like you're talking about FLASHBACKS! The first time that I replied to this, I hadn't caught onto the possibility that the "FLASHBACKS" you referred to was a condition all on its own. In checking around into a few things and doing a websearch on the term, I ran into some websites and discussions of post-trauma and also drug-related Flashbacks that affict a number of people and see that you probably were suggesting those. In those, the person is emotionally and vividly re-experiencing a past event in their lives such as experience in combat, e.g. Vietnam, or a violent trauma such as rape. It is a rather devastating psychological condition in its own right. My own do not fall into that category and perhaps I shouldn't even use the word "flashback" for mine so that it doesn't get confused with the other conditions. Mine only accompany actual seizure activity and the memories I get are secondary to the other strange feelings I get. I'm unable to reconstruct what it was actually like back then, but I'm not certain that the first experiences were traumatic. To a little kid, what I call "strange feelings" now might have been accepted as being a normal part of life. Then again, since I can't even describe them now to people who have never had them, how could a little kid have told his mother about them. Wow... we have very similar things going on! I had a tumor partially removed from my right temporal lobe in 2002. Since then, I get simple partial seizures. Normally, it starts with mild panic sort of feeling. But then the smells kick in. So you get lemon / sourness! Shortly after surgery, I got the smell of burning rubber. I seldom have seizures anymore, but when I do, the smell is sort of like play-dough. During the seizure, I'm racking my brain trying to identify it, because it really takes me back to childhood. Once in awhile, I get deja-vu... and like you said, it is so real. I sat in a meeting one time, started having a seizure (no one can tell when I'm having one... as long as I'm not in a conversation). Anyway, I swear I already knew what was going to come out of people's mouths before they said it. It sounds crazy, but it's so real. So from my earlier post, you'll see that the 'burning rubber' smells you got an is play-dough similar as opposed to lemon? Then according to the older websites, those Auras (Simple Partials) were coming from your *left Temporal Lobe. The Deja Vu (predicting events or what people will say), is supposed to start from electrical firing in the *right T.Lobe, so some of your's could either be migrating (electrically speaking, *during the S.Partial) across from the Left to the Right T.Lobe? or the only auras you have left are in the right? (You might have been e.g. getting Left and RIght before pills, but not aware of Deja and Jamais vus alternating between sides at onset. So most of your's (95%) are now controlled? but the few you felt were *right side flickers now. If they're minor or not distracting, you're probably better to just ignore them ( **that's easier to say when I'm not getting them now.... :-< ), but it's an indication that Most of your's have ended, or they're controlled 99.8% by any medications you take. They're *also supposed to be helpful for Creative Thinking or Processes, so if you enjoy Art or work in areas where Creativeness are a benefit, what's LEFT might become profitable for you---- Bill Gates and Yanni are probably due to retire in 10 years anyway... G./ It has been many years since I have experienced partial seizures, but here are a couple examples. This is during the time when I was trying new meds years ago, and I think the simple partial seizures were worse at that time. I went to dinner at a pizza place with my sister and her family before going to a basketball game. I remember telling my sister I am starting to feel an aura. We were talking and I started to feel like I knew what was going to happen or what was going to be said next, my stomach gets a strange feeling. Kind of like when you are scared or nervous about anticipating something, for example stage fright. So I'm feeling this (I've gone through exact situation before) feeling and at the same time being frightened because I realize that this is an aura and I'm concerned that it could trigger a generalized tonic clonic seizure. Another time it was triggered by photosensitivity. We took our two kids to Disneyland and the first thing we did was go to the Tiki Hut which had an event while we were sitting in the dark which included flashing colored lights. I started to feel the strange feeling and this has happened before and now this will happen. It is almost like tingly, upset, will this ever stop. It is hard to explain. All I know is that when I go to the neurologist to talk about seizure symptoms and you say deja vu feeling, he knows what I mean. But then does he really, because he hasn't had a seizure ;-) Take care, Julie > The term "Deja vu" is one that I have frequently heard mentioned > associated with seizures in this newsgroup and on epilepsy message [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > they use the term as it's probably the same experience that I've been > having as one of the symptoms of my epilepsy. Oh, he knows, simply because they are not, as I have said, common only to epileptics. They are generally experienced by persons, though I have no idea if they are triggered by a sensory perception (certainly not EXTRA, by any means) of one kind or another. The only common element is a familiarity of scene--"Damn, I've been here before. But I've never been here ...."--vs a practical knowledge that they've never been to or seen that place themselves. Religious or pious people tend to associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they often lack the knowledge of psychology to discern the spiritually valid from the everyday sort of brain - mental tricks, like déjà vu, the body's nervous, even the digestive system plays on us. How many of us get caught in the middle of a loud fart for no apparent reason--"But I haven't eaten any beans today .... HONEST!!" Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== > It has been many years since I have experienced partial > seizures, but here are a couple examples. This is during the [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> the same experience that I've been having as one of the >> symptoms of my epilepsy. Religious or pious people tend to > associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they often > lack the knowledge of psychology to discern the spiritually valid > from the everyday sort of brain - mental tricks, like déjà vu, > the body's nervous, even the digestive system plays on us. Paul, I am a very religious person, but I never associated my dejavu feelings with a spiritual experience. Not everyone who has a knowledge and understanding of God's word and practices their faith daily can be considered a person without logic. I know what I am feeling is an aura, so I know why my body is reacting the way it does. But that doesn't stop the frightening feeling from coming. I am not getting the sick feeling in my gut because it is creeping me out that I feel like I've done this before, it frightens me because I recognize it is an aura, and I know what the next step could be. Take care, Julie > Religious or pious people tend to >> associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they often lack [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and understanding of God's word and practices their faith daily can be > considered a person without logic. I don't think it was said that all religious/spiritual experiences are negated by these strong feelings that seem outside of the physical realm. > I know what I am feeling is an aura, so I know why my body is reacting > the way it does. But that doesn't stop the frightening feeling from > coming. I am not getting the sick feeling in my gut because it is > creeping me out that I feel like I've done this before, it frightens me > because I recognize it is an aura, and I know what the next step could be. Read some of the writing of Michael Persinger. Here is some by one of his associates [http://www.laurentian.ca/neurosci/_people/Persinger.htm]. An article about his work in the magazine "Wired" [http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html] Maybe this is just a tool used by God the way some think evolution is. Just another "maybe" in human life. This is one reason I tell people that epilepsy makes one more human, not less. > Take care, > Julie SignatureDave Keays > I don't think it was said that all religious/spiritual experiences are negated > by these strong feelings that seem outside of the physical realm. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > This is one reason I tell people that epilepsy makes one more human, not less. > Dave Keays Probably every Chronic Illness does, but I agree with you, as it makes us more aware how Fragile we are, and ultimately how quickly we could become **dependent on our Friends, and Family, if our condition took a rapid turn for the worse. Some people get UPSET about that feeling of Vulnerability. Others might use it as an opportunity for Growth or at least Learning about compassion for others who might benefit from a little help, or a pat on the head. Cocker Spaniels aren't the only creature that can use a little Hug .... But lots of people can get caught up in Work and racing around and getting ahead and running Faster, and what, my Stock crashed? I'd better get a Second Job and run Faster and faster and ..... (I'm watching a Brother-in-Law doing that, and he's going to Hit a Wall, like I did in 1979, when I had Encephalitis. And *I can't stop him, as it's a Wall he **needs to hit to Reset his Circuitry. If I Tell him there's a Wall ahead, he'll just tell me he can avoid it, and before he looks back ahead, he'll be at it, like the Cartoon characters.<Splat> He has Family In-Laws who are aging and need his help and support, and if he doesn't see that over the next ~8 years, they'll be Gone, and he'll still be Running, --running and running-- and One day when he's olde, he'll look back and wonder what he was Running for, and he'll look left and then right and there's No-one there, just him, standing in the Middle of Centrefield, and they've turned out the lights and gone home, since the Game was over 8 hours before he realized it..... But Dang, he was a good runner.. ) G./ >> I don't think it was said that all religious/spiritual experiences are negated >> by these strong feelings that seem outside of the physical realm. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > could become **dependent on our Friends, and Family, if our condition > took a rapid turn for the worse. I wouldn't want that to happen ... again. > Some people get UPSET about that feeling of Vulnerability. Others > might use it as an opportunity for Growth or at least Learning about > compassion for others who might benefit from a little help, or a pat on > the head. Cocker Spaniels aren't the only creature that can use a > little Hug .... cute way of putting it. > But lots of people can get caught up in Work and racing around and > getting ahead and running Faster, and what, my Stock crashed? I'd > better get a Second Job and run Faster and faster and ..... Getting back into society has taken a while but when I was a teenager I would have done it in a week or two. I believed and said that a persons success depended on having several big ulcers. I only had one or two but was planning for more. Soon I thought my overworking was a factor in my seizures and that I worked until the weakest point in my body broke. I was thankful it was my brain and not my heart. > (I'm watching a Brother-in-Law doing that, and he's going to Hit a > Wall, like I did in 1979, when I had Encephalitis. And *I can't stop > him, as it's a Wall he **needs to hit to Reset his Circuitry. If I Tell > him there's a Wall ahead, he'll just tell me he can avoid it, and > before he looks back ahead, he'll be at it, like the Cartoon > characters.<Splat> It sounds like he is in for a learning experience. Trying to stop him might make things easier for you but cut the learning out for him. Just be ready to dodge the splatter. > He has Family In-Laws who are aging and need his help and support, and > if he doesn't see that over the next ~8 years, they'll be Gone, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > gone home, since the Game was over 8 hours before he realized it..... > But Dang, he was a good runner.. ) G./ Hopefully he will learn. It will be bad because it is too late, but the alternatives are even worse. SignatureDave Keays >they'll be Gone, and >he'll still be Running, --running and running-- and One day when he's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >gone home, since the Game was over 8 hours before he realized it..... > But Dang, he was a good runner.. ) G./ Ha ha :% (smiley with a wry smile). I gave up smoking and took up marathon running, but for reasons unknown to me, the exercise turned into a trigger for my TLE, so I'd go on a run and still be out running on the streets long after the race had finished and the race officials had gone home. Then I'd wake up and wonder where and who I was. As seizures go that wasn't too bad as long as I still had my clothes on. Looking back, the occasions when I didn't were hilarious, but not so funny at the time. But wow, wouldn't life have been boring without epilepsy? It gives us some fun memories doesn't it... if we can remember them through the Teggy-fog. SignatureMalcolm (no longer epileptic, no longer running, and two stone heavier :( Quite a long time ago now (wow, but time creeps in this petty pace really fast sometimes *8=[>}}) I put both my seizure/life and spiritual experiences into a story; it ended up being 400pgs, thirty-two chapters, dblspc'd, and half-heartedly I put it on line as something called "St. Dymphna's Children". It doesn't begin to address everything I felt or needed or wanted to say, but at least it turned out to be a halfway decent meld working through two teenage girls as main characters. More than anything, it chronicles fear, doubt, emotional pain, but the second half tends to bog down at some point. I tinker with from time to time, add, delete, try to explain the medical facts without getting technical. But in the end, more than anything, it could be said to be a spiritual novel, I guess. Now, I have to warm up a cabbage roll and sauté a diced potato with mushrooms, onion, and garlic. Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== >> Religious or pious people tend to >>> associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> Take care, >> Julie > Quite a long time ago now (wow, but time creeps in this petty > pace really fast sometimes *8=[>}}) I put both my seizure/life [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > without getting technical. But in the end, more than anything, > it could be said to be a spiritual novel, I guess. I have always had a similar work in my head. I never got as far as you. Is there someway I can get a copy? > Now, I have to warm up a cabbage roll and saut? a diced > potato with mushrooms, onion, and garlic. The saute' sounds good, but I don't like the idea of a re-warmed cabbage roll. SignatureDave Keays > > Now, I have to warm up a cabbage roll and saut? a diced > > potato with mushrooms, onion, and garlic. > > The saute' sounds good, but I don't like the idea of a re-warmed cabbage roll. > -- > Dave Keays Well the Chocolate Sprinkles on Garlic Cloves were a bust too, so we had to grab what was around while we sent out for Ice Cream, to go with the sprinkles... :-> G./ Hit the homepage in my sig box. It will give you a pic of St. Dymphna, herself, revered in Gheel, Belgium beginniing sometime about the 10th - 11th centuriesbut borne in Ireland sometime in the 7th. cent. or so. I take a few liberties with her tale to pull it in a certain direction for my creative needs, but it's essentially the same basic story. For those who don't already know, St. Dymphna is the patron of Mental Illness and Epilepsy. I have to think at least a week or so ahead when I do my cooking. Like you, I'm not fussy about re-warming anything, but I manage to get around it a little by re-spicing and layering a patina of tomato sauce over it, then placing it in a mini casserole dish with a little water to keep it from burning. I've had to learn all sorts of tricks to re-freshen frozen (my own recipes, mind). But I draw the line at frozen pizza. I make them fresh from the crust up then freeze them. I can get three to five 8" pizza's (meal size) out of $5.00 worth of pepperoni, veggies, and a few small can's of sauce. And, I bake them on ceramic tile, in my own oven. When you can get something like 20 cabbage rolls from one cabbage with 1 1/2 lb of med. ground beef, re-heating is worth the effort. Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== >> Quite a long time ago now (wow, but time creeps in this petty >> pace really fast sometimes *8=[>}}) I put both my seizure/life [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > The saute' sounds good, but I don't like the idea of a > re-warmed cabbage roll. I didn't imply that all religious persons were, Julie, just some. As well, they are not necessarily the types of people we might associate with being uneducated. Some of the most knowledgeable people I know about religion and faith tend to be the people of my grandparents generation. As Catholics, they knew what their spiritual experience was and why they observed it as they did. And since they were accosted by non-Catholics about how they "worshipped Mary or the saints" they were often better at telling theologians that much of what they felt and did as spiritually intense people has a basis in commonsense, since they understood the saints, for example, as people first. It took me a long time to realize that spiritual experience is not measureable in the way that theoretical logic would like it to be; though there are forms of theology that try and study it from a logical perspective. But even the more logically theoretically theologians admit that experiences of God are extremely diverse. My point, in the end, is that Déjà vu is a mental quirk common to everyone; it might even be measurable by psychologists, even neurologists. An aura, on the other hand, is anything but a spiritual encounter. Most people I know, along with myself, see it as similar to the opening credits at the beginning of a movie; sometimes it helps us prepare and sometimes it overwhelms before we have time to pull ourselves together and let a seizure run its course. Certainly, most people who aren't epileptics have no idea what an aura means--how many times have people I been with brushed off what I experienced and then went completely nuts because they had no idea what to do. In the end, the only thing that can be done is let the seizrure run its course and make the person as comfortable as possible so they don't injure themselves. Fortunately, a lot of people have some kind of basic first aid training. Déjà vu is something that, before I understood it, and from what I knew of epilepsy (aura's especially) I was scared of, mainly from about the time I was 9 to about 12, when we had it explained as part of a science class, I think. I never told my parents or doctor about these experiences until it really didn't matter, and by then I understood the difference between the one and the other. What I fear now are those days when the meds tend to screw around with me. Make me groggy, stumble about if I'm not careful, or even blow hearing and seeing out of proportion. It's bad enough I'm nearsighted and have depth perception problems, I hate it when I reach for something and grab air, or slam my nose with the edge of a cupboard door; bad enough I limp from cerebral palsy and slam my feet hard as I walk, the meds play havoc with each step I take because they make things wobble before my eyes. Everyone on this list knows I'm describing an epileptic with cerebral palsy on a day when the world should legislated to stay still. Take certain portions of this note and cut and paste them into a police report, I might end up being charged as a drunk. I've learned to live with the odd time that carpet fibres and my nose greet each other less than cordially. Like a drunk, I sleep it off. Déjà vu is a visual (usually visual) whack upside the head, but I have learned to discern one from the other and deal with it. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt, and while we might not find the complete solace of Matt. 17, at the least we can have faith that God has his reasons. Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== > Religious or pious people tend to >> associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Take care, > Julie > Oh, he knows, simply because they are not, as I have said, common > only to epileptics. They are generally experienced by persons, > though I have no idea if they are triggered by a sensory > perception (certainly not EXTRA, by any means) of one kind or > another. **G* The descriptions I gave on the earlier post on this thread (last night) are produced by an electrical firing in one of the Temporal Lobes, for those of us with Complex Partial (formerly Temporal Lobe) Seizures. It was also measured on EEGs and an MRI fwiw. The type of **aura that we experience is a non-invasive way to determine the likely site of the Seizure Focus (where the szr. starts from inside the brain). As I also described, some of them can be **very strong and *profound-- they aren't just "Oh, Golly I'm having a Deja Vu, guess I'll go buy some jelly beans".... It can be a Powerful and almost Religious feeling, that if you **haven't had**, you have no place criticizing -- you're ASSUMING for me, what *I* experienced, and frankly you're not licenced to do that. While you're entitled to your own opinions if they work for you, you are also commenting on stuff that's available to **read at efa.org and other sites you can simply search on, and not expect us to justify the medical backgrounds, causes and interpretation of what causes those. ************ I'm starting to wonder which type of Seizures you've had? You are sounding SO much like someone who was here in 1999, and after about 3 months he said 'you people have to define your terms or shouldn't use them..' Hmmmm 'You People'.... STRANGE comment for someone to an Ep.Support Group "You People", vs. "We People"... That one admitted (when I asked him) that **he** didn't **have Epilepsy, nor ***know anyone who ever had, but it was His Place to tour Chronic Health support Groups and check them for accuracy and completeness... He had worked his way up to E. at that point. He didn't post (so far as I know) after that... See Below --- I don't understand what you expect wrt. a Support Group for people with seizures. **Now you want us to each justify our experiences, feelings, and even our Personal **Beliefs? Why does that help you with dealing w. Seizures (if you have any), or Understanding what sorts of feelings, interactions or traumas you might experience with a particular seizure type (if you've *ever had one or currently have any). ... Which part of the 'Support' do you not grasp? G./ (More inserted at **s, I thought I was done but the <<Obtuse Scale>> reset and started working again. ) This is YOU again --> The only common element is a familiarity of > scene--"Damn, I've been here before. But I've never been here ***G*** SEE ABOVE, you don't THINK THAT while it's HAPPENING, you have the Feeling but can't Express it until you've come Out of there. So I assume *you've **never been IN THERE, or above comment (your's) wouldn't be needed, would it ? ..G./ > ...."--vs a practical knowledge that they've never been to or > seen that place themselves. Religious or pious people tend to > associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they often > lack the knowledge of psychology to discern the spiritually valid *** G. ***** Your Patronizing Biases are Blocking my View. You have no Basis to know which of us have taken Psychology or studied it or not. Do you? (Yes, to answer your next question, and you should have stayed there for the full year's course. ) / > from the everyday sort of brain - ****mental tricks, like déjà vu,**** > the body's nervous, even the digestive system plays on us. How > many of us get caught in the middle of a loud fart for no > apparent reason--"But I haven't eaten any beans today .... > HONEST!!" > -- ******G. * TOTALLY Irrelevant to Auras wrt. Seizures, if you've had any Auras in the last 1-2 years or more now. Which Szr. type did you say you have? I'm beginning to doubt any or at least **Any that involve an **Aura (Simple Partial) as part of the onset. G. // > =========================================== > Paul J. Chiasson [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > was going to be said next, my stomach gets a strange feeling. > > Kind of like when you are scared or nervous about anticipating ***************************************************************************** > > something, for example stage fright. So I'm feeling this (I've ************************************************ > > gone through exact situation before) feeling and at the same > > time being frightened because I realize that this is an aura ***************************************************************************** > > and I'm concerned that it could trigger a generalized tonic > > clonic seizure. > > > > Another time it was triggered by photosensitivity. We took our ************************************************************ > > two kids to Disneyland and the first thing we did was go to the > > Tiki Hut which had an event while we were sitting in the dark > > which included flashing colored lights. I started to feel the > > strange feeling and this has happened before and now this will ******************************************************************************* > > happen. It is almost like tingly, upset, will this ever stop. ******************************************************************************* G. > > It is hard to explain. > > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> called "deja vu" and I haven't experienced that from my > >> epilepsy. ****** G. THAT's what I described on my earlier note, and the last- Deja inside <<>>s. > >> What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster > >> here is a strong flashback memory of some previous time. In my *****G. ** I THINK I POSTED ALREADY a Flashback is **not same as a Deja. // > >> case, it's usually a flashback of an aura that I was having > >> sometime when I was much much younger. The flashbacks are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >> the same experience that I've been having as one of the > >> symptoms of my epilepsy. /// end older post remnant // If you can dig up a sample from whatever archives are available with that ideal and I could compare it to my e-mail addy's, I might be able to tell you one way or the other. In general I've avoided NG's such as these because I don't understand the technical jargon. And where other NG's might break down into name calling and digital fisticuffs, threads on sites that deal with medical problems invariably break down into jargonese. I understand some of it, but I'm not a science major. I'm more interested in how people get along day to day. I know a little about Right - Left Brain interactions, aura's, how often, how long they last. I know that epileptics don't always manage to fit in socially or economically. I'm still making my way through the threads, really. Julie's ideas on faith and spirituality would make for a good separate thread, without getting too much into religion generally or specifically. How many saints could claim spiritual experiences out of the seizures they might have had? Does God work prophetically through epileptics? Now, I have to roast some garlic. Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: > Oh, he knows, simply because they are not, as I have said, > common > only to epileptics. They are generally experienced by persons, > though I have no idea if they are triggered by a sensory > perception (certainly not EXTRA, by any means) of one kind or > another. **G* The descriptions I gave on the earlier post on this thread (last night) are produced by an electrical firing in one of the Temporal Lobes, for those of us with Complex Partial (formerly Temporal Lobe) Seizures. It was also measured on EEGs and an MRI fwiw. The type of **aura that we experience is a non-invasive way to determine the likely site of the Seizure Focus (where the szr. starts from inside the brain). As I also described, some of them can be **very strong and *profound-- they aren't just "Oh, Golly I'm having a Deja Vu, guess I'll go buy some jelly beans".... It can be a Powerful and almost Religious feeling, that if you **haven't had**, you have no place criticizing -- you're ASSUMING for me, what *I* experienced, and frankly you're not licenced to do that. While you're entitled to your own opinions if they work for you, you are also commenting on stuff that's available to **read at efa.org and other sites you can simply search on, and not expect us to justify the medical backgrounds, causes and interpretation of what causes those. ************ I'm starting to wonder which type of Seizures you've had? You are sounding SO much like someone who was here in 1999, and after about 3 months he said 'you people have to define your terms or shouldn't use them..' Hmmmm 'You People'.... STRANGE comment for someone to an Ep.Support Group "You People", vs. "We People"... That one admitted (when I asked him) that **he** didn't **have Epilepsy, nor ***know anyone who ever had, but it was His Place to tour Chronic Health support Groups and check them for accuracy and completeness... He had worked his way up to E. at that point. He didn't post (so far as I know) after that... See Below --- I don't understand what you expect wrt. a Support Group for people with seizures. **Now you want us to each justify our experiences, feelings, and even our Personal **Beliefs? Why does that help you with dealing w. Seizures (if you have any), or Understanding what sorts of feelings, interactions or traumas you might experience with a particular seizure type (if you've *ever had one or currently have any). ... Which part of the 'Support' do you not grasp? G./ (More inserted at **s, I thought I was done but the <<Obtuse Scale>> reset and started working again. ) This is YOU again --> The only common element is a familiarity of > scene--"Damn, I've been here before. But I've never been here ***G*** SEE ABOVE, you don't THINK THAT while it's HAPPENING, you have the Feeling but can't Express it until you've come Out of there. So I assume *you've **never been IN THERE, or above comment (your's) wouldn't be needed, would it ? ..G./ > ...."--vs a practical knowledge that they've never been to or > seen that place themselves. Religious or pious people tend to > associate it with a spiritual experience of some sort; they > often > lack the knowledge of psychology to discern the spiritually > valid *** G. ***** Your Patronizing Biases are Blocking my View. You have no Basis to know which of us have taken Psychology or studied it or not. Do you? (Yes, to answer your next question, and you should have stayed there for the full year's course. ) / > from the everyday sort of brain - ****mental tricks, like déjà > vu,**** [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > HONEST!!" > -- ******G. * TOTALLY Irrelevant to Auras wrt. Seizures, if you've had any Auras in the last 1-2 years or more now. Which Szr. type did you say you have? I'm beginning to doubt any or at least **Any that involve an **Aura (Simple Partial) as part of the onset. G. // > =========================================== > Paul J. Chiasson [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Kind of like when you are scared or nervous about > > anticipating ***************************************************************************** > > something, for example stage fright. So I'm feeling this > > (I've ************************************************ > > gone through exact situation before) feeling and at the same > > time being frightened because I realize that this is an aura ***************************************************************************** > > and I'm concerned that it could trigger a generalized tonic > > clonic seizure. > > > > Another time it was triggered by photosensitivity. We took > > our ************************************************************ > > two kids to Disneyland and the first thing we did was go to > > the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > strange feeling and this has happened before and now this > > will ******************************************************************************* > > happen. It is almost like tingly, upset, will this ever > > stop. ******************************************************************************* G. > > It is hard to explain. > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >> called "deja vu" and I haven't experienced that from my > >> epilepsy. ****** G. THAT's what I described on my earlier note, and the last- Deja inside <<>>s. > >> What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster > >> here is a strong flashback memory of some previous time. In > >> my *****G. ** I THINK I POSTED ALREADY a Flashback is **not same as a Deja. // > >> case, it's usually a flashback of an aura that I was having > >> sometime when I was much much younger. The flashbacks are [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> the same experience that I've been having as one of the > >> symptoms of my epilepsy. /// end older post remnant // > If you can dig up a sample from whatever archives are available > with that ideal and I could compare it to my e-mail addy's, I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > name calling and digital fisticuffs, threads on sites that deal > with medical problems invariably break down into jargonese. ****** I'd rather we didn't. I think we probably learn more by exchanging ideas than fisticuffs, or whatever it's called.... G./ > I'm more interested in how people get along day to day. I know a > little about Right - Left Brain interactions, aura's, how often, > how long they last. I know that epileptics don't always manage > to fit in socially or economically. I'm still making my way > through the threads, really. ***** Do you have option in your reader to Sort Messages by Subject line or Message Thread, Date ascending? If you don't have that set, I found that useful to keep related messages in Some sort of Order-- better than *I could if I had to order them !! G./ Julie's ideas on faith and > spirituality would make for a good separate thread, without > getting too much into religion generally or specifically. How > many saints could claim spiritual experiences out of the seizures > they might have had? Does God work prophetically through > epileptics? Now, I have to roast some garlic. > -- G. I think somewhere about 3 months ago, we were tinkering with a list of People Alive and throughout History who Had, or were Thought to have had, some forms of Seizures. I was surprised, based on whatever criteria they used, the **number of Philosophers, Artists, *and Religious or Biblical figures who were listed. There might be more consciousness-raising or alternate thinking/ raised awareness and sensitivity than we might at first realize. G./ > =========================================== > Paul J. Chiasson [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ai714@chebucto.ns.ca > ========================================== Oh, no. Not that. I was just curious to see if I'd posted anything that might still be about. Signature=========================================== Paul J. Chiasson http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/paul.chiasson/ paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca vsmon@ns.sympatico.ca ai714@chebucto.ns.ca ========================================== >> If you can dig up a sample from whatever archives are >> available [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >> ai714@chebucto.ns.ca >> ========================================== Deja Vu, in general, is a sort of short-circuit in your brain in which the perception you have just had is fed back to your conscious mind as though it came from your memory. I don't think that it is a source of concern unless it happens so often as to interfere with your life. > Deja Vu, in general, is a sort of short-circuit in your brain in which > the perception you have just had is fed back to your conscious mind as > though it came from your memory. I don't think that it is a source of > concern unless it happens so often as to interfere with your life. For many of us it was a Precursor to a stronger seizure onset, either Grand Mal or Complex Partial (mine). So when we had those (before mine were controlled), it triggered Fear because once the full CP has started, I no longer knew where I was, if I was in Danger or about to walk into traffic. Several times I woke up in Emerg., until the meds. started to get more control, then I'd just wake up on the Floor. But I could tell I'd had a full szr., just no one this time had called for an ambulance. G./ What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster here is a strong flashback memory of some previous time. In my case, it's usually a flashback of an aura that I was having sometime when I was much much younger. The flashbacks are fairly vivid and are almost like a movie being played back. Hi my experiences are very simular almost exactly the same. I had a seizure about 10 days ago rtl which caused me to forget most of the last 4 months including my mothers death. Certain events are slowly coming back but Im living in this aura of feeling I think i had when I was much younger anywhere from 4 - 18 im 39 now. Its very hard to remember what I did 1 hour ago and virtually impossible to put a time line together over the last 10 days. Anyway if this also sounds familar let me know. Mike > What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster here is a > strong [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > familar let me know.> > Mike Maybe you can keep us posted, (here or on another thread), if any of it comes back gradually? I found a few times, mine went away in fragments soon after a seizure, but then would come back in dribs and drabs over a period I didn't control -- it just seemed if I was more Stressed or less Rested that interfered with the rate of recall improvement. Other times, it came back within e.g. 12 hours or so, and I'd recall a lot. When I first had Complex Partials (Temporal Lobe szrs.), while I was *away was gone, but my Base memory was ~as good after an hour or 2. I have damage there, so Some stuff (like remembering what was on the screen before the Program went to New Screen and thought I'd recall what had just been left), won't come back if it hadn't been Loaded first before the event. That was where I commented on an older thread, that Stress or Lack of sleep seemed to aggravate the attempts to recall stuff I had just read, or heard on TV or the Radio. G./ > What my epilepsy causes for me and causes for a new poster here is a > strong [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > line together over the last 10 days. Anyway if this also sounds > familar let me know. It's basically the same for me with some variations as expected. I'm somewhat older than you (past middle age) and have had an undiagnosed epileptic condition all my life which has consisted of simple & complex partials. There have been cycles in how it has effected me and I've seen various doctors over the years. It wasn't until about 6 years ago that it started really effecting me badly and my doctors here ran me through all the standard tests and concluded that I have epilepsy. I've been taking meds ever since then with varying degrees of success. In terms of memory, I can shut my computer system down for the day and have to come back to it 5 min later to check if I remembered to shut the monitor and external drive down. Oftimes I haven't. Sometimes I get into bed and realize that I'm still wearing my glasses which should have been left on on the table downstairs. The list goes on, but that should give you the flavor of my short-term memory. I also lost a big chunk out of the middle of my life and rely on my wife for details of events leading up to my own mother's death ~16 years ago. I remember little of a dog we used to have from puppyhood to death and, speaking of my wife, there was some element of getting reaccustomed to a stranger. I don't want her to know that though And yet, I can remember events and people from when I was 4 years old like my grandmother and my first day at kindergarden. I also can remember periods when I had the aura feelings very frequently, although I can't always identify them as to timeframe. I do remember the streets & roads that I used to drive and lakes that I passed on the way to a college buddy's house. That scene often came up in my flashbacks. Hi all, Been a while since I visited this group. I managed to kill my computer, then also killed the replacement, so I've been offline for a while. Now I have a laptop which I'm hoping to keep for a while without killing it. I'm 40 years old and have had simple partials and complex partials since I was about 8 years old. They're far from controlled - complex partials occurring as often as 10 times a day. My short term memory has always been a major major problem, whether because of the meds (tegretol, epilim, gabapentin, clobazam) which I take, or because of the epilepsy itself, I don't know. I've spent a few years off work - on an invalid's benefit. However, a few months ago, my wife Patsy and I began working as real-estate agents. She drives me around and I talk a lot, so it works out well. Since we started doing that my memory has improved dramatically. I believe it's due to the fact that it's become essential for me to remember a lot of things. I can even remember phone numbers I have only called a few times. All my life I've been experiencing deja vu's regularly. When I was a child my family was driving through a town we had never been to and I said to my parents "This is the place with the purple trucks". My parents were confused until we went around a corner further up the road and there was a whole fleet of purple trucks parked in a trucking yard. I've had deja vu to the point where I was listening in to a conversation and was able to tell the person with me what was going to be said and how it was going to be replied to. Made us both blink when I was accurate, word for word. Of course my deja vu's aren't always that accurate, more often just a feeling of "this has happened before", but they're always there and have been for 32 years now. Cheers, Darryl.
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