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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / March 2006

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Are your anticonvulsants causing infertility?

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Dawn Terry - 15 Mar 2006 17:45 GMT
My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult
time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be
down to the Steroids that he also has to take every day.

Is anyone else finding that their chances of having a family have been
dashed, due to bad sperm counts and forms since taking their meds for
Epilepsy?

Best Wishes
wester@laway.net - 16 Mar 2006 00:55 GMT
>My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult
>time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Best Wishes

With all the overpopulation in this world, why would you even consider
another human who could be genetically predisposed to epilepsy? It's
not a fun condition to live with, as you are already aware.

If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption.
Julie - 16 Mar 2006 01:19 GMT
Dawn, I think this person is very insensitive.  I hope you and your
husband can find the answers to conceiving a beautiful baby.  We have
two sons and epilepsy was not an issue for us.

Julie

>>My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult
>>time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption.
G. - 16 Mar 2006 03:15 GMT
 I agree with Julie's reply.  There are many different causes of
Epilepsy, and I don't think any can be passed on (genetically coded).
There is no basis for them suggesting a male could pass on genetic
coding that would predispose a newborn to having seizures.  (Your
Doctor could tell you for sure.)
 My seizures (a male) started in 1993, caused by damage from
Encephalitis I had in 1979.   I already had my kids, but if I were to
have more there is *no way the Organic Damage, from above infection,
could be 'coded' and passed on to any children I have.

  Have you spoken to your Doctor about whether the meds. he is using
could be altered to another type that provides same level of
szr.control, but without this side effect, if that's what *might be
causing it?  Or even to find out *if the meds. currently in use are a
contributing factor?
   There may be others over next few days who might post and have
direct experience you seek, but their input is still based on their own
experiences, and your particular case might be specific to you.  (Some
people only read the group ***2-3x a week.)

   I agree with Julie --ignore the negative post.  That's the only
time they've posted here since I started reading this group in Sept.
1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy,
or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused.   /G.
partials - 16 Mar 2006 04:51 GMT
>   I agree with Julie's reply.  There are many different causes of
> Epilepsy, and I don't think any can be passed on (genetically coded).
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> 1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy,
> or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused.   /G.

Let me also add my agreement to what you and Julie have had to say. That person
has no business in posting in a support group. It's reasonable to suspect a
troll attempt.

Getting back on topic though, it only took me a couple of minutes to locate this
article about an almost duplicate situation.
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1
0219283&dopt=Abstract
>

Not to raise false hopes, but in that case "a 32-year-old man whose wife and he
were able to bear a child before the development of his epilepsy." were
infertile after he began valproate therapy. His medication was changed and the
valproate discontinued. "Within 4 months, the couple conceived their second
child.". Isolated case? Maybe. Read the disclaimer. But there could very well be
something to it also.
wester@laway.net - 17 Mar 2006 02:18 GMT
<snip>
>    I agree with Julie --ignore the negative post.  That's the only
>time they've posted here since I started reading this group in Sept.
>1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy,
>or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused.   /G.

Dear G:

I have had epileptic seizures since I was 15. My father had seizures;
my cousin had seizures; my grandfather had seizures, all on the same
side of the family.

You assumed and got the usual results.
Julie - 17 Mar 2006 03:10 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> You assumed and got the usual results.

In some cases seizures are hereditary.  But not in all cases.  I have
epilepsy, but that doesn't mean that I wish that I wasn't born.  Our
point is no need to be negative to someone who is asking a question of
our group.

Take care,
Julie
G. - 17 Mar 2006 07:23 GMT
> On 15 Mar 2006 18:15:46 -0800, "G." <> wrote:>
> <snip>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> You assumed and got the usual results.

  Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if

that's what caused it?).

You're the **second person since Sept. 1997 who has posted here about a
familial
relationship.   The other was Darla in Wash. State who had an Aunt and
either her Mother or another sister who had same type of seizures.
 (I don't remember the **type she had, of 5 or 6 types currently
referred to -- they were childhood onset, not late onset like mine--
she was still using medis to control them.)
  She posted here in late 1997 after I mentioned I had never met
anyone who had a family history of any type of seizures.

  I don't have statistics assembled from here, between then and now,
but over the past 8.5 years you *2 are the >only 2< where that has
occurred-- yet there have been
probably 30 new posters per month? x12 = 360 x 8+ years =2880 posters,
here, who *don't have that correlation.

Dave is the Statistician when he's around, so he'll butt in if these
statistics don't look reasonable, based on assumptions above and below,
try this -->

 I realize that's difficult to set as statistically significant, but
assume
this used to be one of the more active groups, so representative?  --
That's
still 8 years x12 months = 96 times the no. of new posters average per
month
during that period.  Call it 2/2700 (above para.2880) with
**hereditary-based
seizures.  That is 0.077 of One Percent (8/100ths of *1* percent).
  Your perception, we were suggesting, of the new poster, based on the

limited information they gave you, doesn't support, statistically, your

assumptions on their behalf for **them.
 Even given that your family appears to have a large number of people
with similar? or the same? seizures (you didn't indicate if the reason
was ever **explained to you for all the familial cases).  As I listed
earlier, you and Darla are the only 2 where **more than one person** in
the same family had any types of seizures -- the same type or not.

   Those of us who replied were trying to put the Support back into
alt.support, and thought the comments weren't statistically accurate,
based on the postings here over that period, and people who had read
and posted about their particular seizure types and whether there was
any relationship between *their onset dates (childhood, teen or
adulthood),  and whether they mentioned any familial relationship that
existed in their cases.   Except for the *one I mentioned above, and
now you,  that made *2.

  I felt then (and still believe), that wasn't a statistically
reliable figure to base the reply to the *new* poster, with  the
limited information she posted here and provided to you.
 Unless they've discussed that with their Doctors and their particular
case (especially where it was the Male? who had later onset seizures),
I didn't feel that was a place where we had reliable enough information
to do an online diagnosis for them, other than suggest what they could
ask or review that with the Doctor involved in their treatment...
G./.
wester@laway.net - 18 Mar 2006 00:37 GMT
>   Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if
>
>that's what caused it?).

Of course not. Because the witch doctors don't have a clue about
seizures, let alone hereditary seizures.
partials - 18 Mar 2006 03:02 GMT
>>   Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if
>>
>> that's what caused it?).
>
> Of course not. Because the witch doctors don't have a clue about
> seizures, let alone hereditary seizures.

That's pretty much the case and I can understand your bitterness in that regard.
I'd only ask you to recognize that not all seizure conditions are caused by
heredity. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable for a loving couple to want
to have a family and seek ways to make that happen.
G. - 18 Mar 2006 14:47 GMT
 Perhaps it was long ago, or the Doctors detected a slight bias in
your attitude, so didn't give you your full records or test results.
While some seizure types might still be untreatable, many types that
were considered permanent, even *10 years ago, can now to moderated
with pills or other treatments.
 The assumption that **all* types are Genetically coded, further up
this thread, I tried to suggest was incorrect -- mine weren't, and we
didn't have enough information, based on their earlier post, to say
that their type was like your's.
 My question above (to you) was intended to get a straight answer, but
if you don't want to discuss it that's fine-- we can't get enough
information to tell which parts are real and which are just sarcasm.

 Still, assuming your personal history is the barometer for all other
types of seizures, is not accurate. Many types are treated with surgery
or **pills now, that weren't available years ago, and others might be
outgrown.  I'm sorry if your's were not one of them. But that doesn't
mean her's are-- we just don't have the information to make that
assessment, and Reveen doesn't post here.  My 1993-onset ones were
controlled about 1995, and last Complex Partial szr. I had was June
1998-- ~8 years now. (I had been told to hope for 2-3 szrs. per month,
based on initial MRIs and EEGs at onset.)
 The main thing Unique about us here is we're all different. Some
things might be similar, so work for some groups of us, but we can't
generalize one outcome for all of us for all the seizure types... The
Brain doesn't work that way.    G./
Gianluca - 16 Mar 2006 11:07 GMT
>>My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult
>>time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption.

I reply you with my bad english.

You are a very very "COGLIONE" because you speak for not thinking.
Beach Runner - 16 Mar 2006 13:38 GMT
>>> My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very
>>> difficult time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> You are a very very "COGLIONE" because you speak for not thinking.

There are fertility drugs.
G. - 16 Mar 2006 16:52 GMT
 They could check if there are any side effects listed under
http://efa.org for the particular medication (Valproate or sodium?
valproate).   Also the pharmacy who prescribe it have **more detail in
the Scripts they have, from Manufacturer, that they don't necessarily
hand out, but might be able to give them copies or a url too about
above.
  I suggested the Dr. first as they would know about 1) any reason it
is caused by the pills,  and *2)  their desire to have children,  that
some Drs. might not realize when the prescription was *first
written....
  The reason I brought the Dr. into the part, is medication might be
interfering with e.g. male part of the sequence, and a Fertility drug
together with another prescription Med., might not necessarily fix the
**first part (Valproate interfering with sperm or egg count).
  If they want though and DO find a Solution, it would be good if they
Posted their successes *back here, as only about 10-15% of people
reading this group *actually post here. But their information as they
search out a solution can help Others who read the group or the history
file too.      Good luck searching.   G./  (grandpa)
Malcolm - 18 Mar 2006 13:26 GMT
>With all the overpopulation in this world, why would you even consider
>another human who could be genetically predisposed to epilepsy? It's
>not a fun condition to live with, as you are already aware.
>
>If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption.

Please note the word SUPPORT in the Newsgroup's title. Even though I can
be outspoken here at times, I hope I have never been as rude or
insensitive as you have been in your comment above.
Signature

Malcolm      

Mike Kelliher - 18 Mar 2006 18:14 GMT
I took Valproate for 21 years and had two boys. So no problems here however
I have also been told by my ex's new husband " How dare you have children
and pass this on to them." Nice guy...
Childhood onset seizures (petit mal) evidently can be passed on. I didn't
know this until I had kids myself. Luckely my kids don't have them.
G. - 19 Mar 2006 03:45 GMT
  Unless we have a Dr. around who can tell us (or others have more
experience than I with petit mal),  that is one of the mildest forms of
seizures?   I only had symptoms of that briefly as I got within the
last ~10% of control in 1996-7.
  (My main ones were Complex partial = temporal lobe by the way, vs.
Grand mal or other types.)   And the new 'husband' above probably knows
less about whether any of these things could be passed on or not.   It
sure is easy to stand in a corner and point fingers, without knowing
what he is suggesting.  *I would have thought that a Genetic
predisposition would be something that couldn't happen, or might be
pre-encoded in the egg? versus a sperm (sorry girls).  I just thought
that the 'malignant parts'  of some conditions **would need to modify
**All the cells in a Male's body**, to get programmed into a sperm?
that developed 20 years later, into Brain material of a new Baby?
 If e.g. there's nothing flowing in the bloodstream that would code
for seizures,  there is no route that would produce seizures in the
kids?  Perhaps for Petit Mal the same is true if it's the woman who had
it in childhood.
 And besides, since they didn't have any problems (your post above),
what's his problem?  I hope you didn't tell him about you and I coming
from Mars too..  :-<  G./
Dawn Terry - 19 Mar 2006 20:35 GMT
Many Thanks to:

Julie, G, Partials, Mike & Malcolm.

For your support and help.

Mike (so very pleased that everything is OK for you with the Valproate.)
We (Hubby & I ) do have 1 very healthy son....massive baby and as healthy as
an ox.  very determinied and wilfull.

Julie & G (Just for being so quick to respond, and friendly)
Partials (excellent link to the case of changing the meds..)  Something that
we have considered, but they can't promise stability for my husband, and as
he needs his drving licence as he is self-employed, he daren't change at the
moment.

Dawn

> My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult
> time conceiving?  We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Best Wishes
Julie - 20 Mar 2006 06:44 GMT
> Many Thanks to:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>
>>Best Wishes

Dawn, that is what this support group is here for.  I wish I had an
answer for you.  Glad we were able to be there for you.

I'm feeling rather drugged right now myself.  I've started a new drug
therapy so I had to slowly add my new drug, Keppra, and will be very
slowly going off phenobarbital.  I'm feeling rather fortunate that I
have a schedule where I feel like I am in control.  I have a few clients
and do volunteer work.  I have decided after taking care of my parents
for so many years that this year is the year to take care of my health
needs.

I don't have to worry about fertility, but it will be interesting to see
if I feel like my brain works better on the Keppra.

One side effect may be getting irritable.  Guess no one in the group has
irritated me yet.

Take care,
Julie
G. - 20 Mar 2006 19:07 GMT
  Give us time, the day is young !! :-> ("no one has irritated you
yet"...)
  Sometime in the next hour or 2 it's Spring in the N. Hemisphere  :->
 Autumn in Southern one  :-<

  I haven't used Keppra, but there have been quite a few posters who
have used it, so hopefully they'll have some tips on how it worked for
them, and *their type of szrs. or if they had problems.
  My understanding of lots of the *newer pills is they are often more
targeted to a particular type of szrs. and though they might not be a
good choice for my type, can prove excellent for your type (if your's
are different than mine).  And while your older one (Pheno)  might give
a general 'cure' to some types of szrs., there might be other side
effects or brain-fog etc. that a newer targeted pill might not have.
  That's one of the pills that has been discussed a number of times
here, and there could be stuff in the history file too, but more
up-to-date experiences of people currently using it -- especially
someone who has experience with same pill to pill transition will help
others too, who might not be currently posting here.

   Let us know how things develop.   We need all the 'olde timers' we
can muster here too... I only remember that *some of the meds. might
need to be used for e.g. 3 to 6 weeks, before there is confirmation
that the body/dose levels are at a Good Level or need to be clicked up
or down a little.   (I had to do that years ago with Tegretol and
Frisium pills. While I thought they could take a sample when I hit peak
of a particular pill dose,  they usually waited above period, usually
about 2-3 weeks, to look and see how it was being kept in my
bloodstream.)
    Some of us purge things faster than others, so a dose for one of
us might not be ideal for someone else, even at same weight or szr.
type.  But there should be a few people around who have used Keppra as
that's been discussed often and many of the potential side effects and
successes should be documented by now.   G./

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