Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / March 2006
Are your anticonvulsants causing infertility?
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Dawn Terry - 15 Mar 2006 17:45 GMT My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be down to the Steroids that he also has to take every day.
Is anyone else finding that their chances of having a family have been dashed, due to bad sperm counts and forms since taking their meds for Epilepsy?
Best Wishes
wester@laway.net - 16 Mar 2006 00:55 GMT >My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult >time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Best Wishes With all the overpopulation in this world, why would you even consider another human who could be genetically predisposed to epilepsy? It's not a fun condition to live with, as you are already aware.
If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption.
Julie - 16 Mar 2006 01:19 GMT Dawn, I think this person is very insensitive. I hope you and your husband can find the answers to conceiving a beautiful baby. We have two sons and epilepsy was not an issue for us.
Julie
>>My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult >>time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption. G. - 16 Mar 2006 03:15 GMT I agree with Julie's reply. There are many different causes of Epilepsy, and I don't think any can be passed on (genetically coded). There is no basis for them suggesting a male could pass on genetic coding that would predispose a newborn to having seizures. (Your Doctor could tell you for sure.) My seizures (a male) started in 1993, caused by damage from Encephalitis I had in 1979. I already had my kids, but if I were to have more there is *no way the Organic Damage, from above infection, could be 'coded' and passed on to any children I have.
Have you spoken to your Doctor about whether the meds. he is using could be altered to another type that provides same level of szr.control, but without this side effect, if that's what *might be causing it? Or even to find out *if the meds. currently in use are a contributing factor? There may be others over next few days who might post and have direct experience you seek, but their input is still based on their own experiences, and your particular case might be specific to you. (Some people only read the group ***2-3x a week.)
I agree with Julie --ignore the negative post. That's the only time they've posted here since I started reading this group in Sept. 1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy, or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused. /G.
partials - 16 Mar 2006 04:51 GMT > I agree with Julie's reply. There are many different causes of > Epilepsy, and I don't think any can be passed on (genetically coded). [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > 1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy, > or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused. /G. Let me also add my agreement to what you and Julie have had to say. That person has no business in posting in a support group. It's reasonable to suspect a troll attempt.
Getting back on topic though, it only took me a couple of minutes to locate this article about an almost duplicate situation. <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 0219283&dopt=Abstract>
Not to raise false hopes, but in that case "a 32-year-old man whose wife and he were able to bear a child before the development of his epilepsy." were infertile after he began valproate therapy. His medication was changed and the valproate discontinued. "Within 4 months, the couple conceived their second child.". Isolated case? Maybe. Read the disclaimer. But there could very well be something to it also.
wester@laway.net - 17 Mar 2006 02:18 GMT <snip>
> I agree with Julie --ignore the negative post. That's the only >time they've posted here since I started reading this group in Sept. >1997. From the tone, I doubt they even have experience with epilepsy, >or haven't read a lot about it and how it might be caused. /G. Dear G:
I have had epileptic seizures since I was 15. My father had seizures; my cousin had seizures; my grandfather had seizures, all on the same side of the family.
You assumed and got the usual results.
Julie - 17 Mar 2006 03:10 GMT > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You assumed and got the usual results. In some cases seizures are hereditary. But not in all cases. I have epilepsy, but that doesn't mean that I wish that I wasn't born. Our point is no need to be negative to someone who is asking a question of our group.
Take care, Julie
G. - 17 Mar 2006 07:23 GMT > On 15 Mar 2006 18:15:46 -0800, "G." <> wrote:> > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You assumed and got the usual results. Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if
that's what caused it?).
You're the **second person since Sept. 1997 who has posted here about a familial relationship. The other was Darla in Wash. State who had an Aunt and either her Mother or another sister who had same type of seizures. (I don't remember the **type she had, of 5 or 6 types currently referred to -- they were childhood onset, not late onset like mine-- she was still using medis to control them.) She posted here in late 1997 after I mentioned I had never met anyone who had a family history of any type of seizures.
I don't have statistics assembled from here, between then and now, but over the past 8.5 years you *2 are the >only 2< where that has occurred-- yet there have been probably 30 new posters per month? x12 = 360 x 8+ years =2880 posters, here, who *don't have that correlation.
Dave is the Statistician when he's around, so he'll butt in if these statistics don't look reasonable, based on assumptions above and below, try this -->
I realize that's difficult to set as statistically significant, but assume this used to be one of the more active groups, so representative? -- That's still 8 years x12 months = 96 times the no. of new posters average per month during that period. Call it 2/2700 (above para.2880) with **hereditary-based seizures. That is 0.077 of One Percent (8/100ths of *1* percent). Your perception, we were suggesting, of the new poster, based on the
limited information they gave you, doesn't support, statistically, your
assumptions on their behalf for **them. Even given that your family appears to have a large number of people with similar? or the same? seizures (you didn't indicate if the reason was ever **explained to you for all the familial cases). As I listed earlier, you and Darla are the only 2 where **more than one person** in the same family had any types of seizures -- the same type or not.
Those of us who replied were trying to put the Support back into alt.support, and thought the comments weren't statistically accurate, based on the postings here over that period, and people who had read and posted about their particular seizure types and whether there was any relationship between *their onset dates (childhood, teen or adulthood), and whether they mentioned any familial relationship that existed in their cases. Except for the *one I mentioned above, and now you, that made *2.
I felt then (and still believe), that wasn't a statistically reliable figure to base the reply to the *new* poster, with the limited information she posted here and provided to you. Unless they've discussed that with their Doctors and their particular case (especially where it was the Male? who had later onset seizures), I didn't feel that was a place where we had reliable enough information to do an online diagnosis for them, other than suggest what they could ask or review that with the Doctor involved in their treatment... G./.
wester@laway.net - 18 Mar 2006 00:37 GMT > Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if > >that's what caused it?). Of course not. Because the witch doctors don't have a clue about seizures, let alone hereditary seizures.
partials - 18 Mar 2006 03:02 GMT >> Did anyone ever tell you why your family has that predisposition (if >> >> that's what caused it?). > > Of course not. Because the witch doctors don't have a clue about > seizures, let alone hereditary seizures. That's pretty much the case and I can understand your bitterness in that regard. I'd only ask you to recognize that not all seizure conditions are caused by heredity. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable for a loving couple to want to have a family and seek ways to make that happen.
G. - 18 Mar 2006 14:47 GMT Perhaps it was long ago, or the Doctors detected a slight bias in your attitude, so didn't give you your full records or test results. While some seizure types might still be untreatable, many types that were considered permanent, even *10 years ago, can now to moderated with pills or other treatments. The assumption that **all* types are Genetically coded, further up this thread, I tried to suggest was incorrect -- mine weren't, and we didn't have enough information, based on their earlier post, to say that their type was like your's. My question above (to you) was intended to get a straight answer, but if you don't want to discuss it that's fine-- we can't get enough information to tell which parts are real and which are just sarcasm.
Still, assuming your personal history is the barometer for all other types of seizures, is not accurate. Many types are treated with surgery or **pills now, that weren't available years ago, and others might be outgrown. I'm sorry if your's were not one of them. But that doesn't mean her's are-- we just don't have the information to make that assessment, and Reveen doesn't post here. My 1993-onset ones were controlled about 1995, and last Complex Partial szr. I had was June 1998-- ~8 years now. (I had been told to hope for 2-3 szrs. per month, based on initial MRIs and EEGs at onset.) The main thing Unique about us here is we're all different. Some things might be similar, so work for some groups of us, but we can't generalize one outcome for all of us for all the seizure types... The Brain doesn't work that way. G./
Gianluca - 16 Mar 2006 11:07 GMT >>My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult >>time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption. I reply you with my bad english.
You are a very very "COGLIONE" because you speak for not thinking.
Beach Runner - 16 Mar 2006 13:38 GMT >>> My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very >>> difficult time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > You are a very very "COGLIONE" because you speak for not thinking. There are fertility drugs.
G. - 16 Mar 2006 16:52 GMT They could check if there are any side effects listed under http://efa.org for the particular medication (Valproate or sodium? valproate). Also the pharmacy who prescribe it have **more detail in the Scripts they have, from Manufacturer, that they don't necessarily hand out, but might be able to give them copies or a url too about above. I suggested the Dr. first as they would know about 1) any reason it is caused by the pills, and *2) their desire to have children, that some Drs. might not realize when the prescription was *first written.... The reason I brought the Dr. into the part, is medication might be interfering with e.g. male part of the sequence, and a Fertility drug together with another prescription Med., might not necessarily fix the **first part (Valproate interfering with sperm or egg count). If they want though and DO find a Solution, it would be good if they Posted their successes *back here, as only about 10-15% of people reading this group *actually post here. But their information as they search out a solution can help Others who read the group or the history file too. Good luck searching. G./ (grandpa)
Malcolm - 18 Mar 2006 13:26 GMT >With all the overpopulation in this world, why would you even consider >another human who could be genetically predisposed to epilepsy? It's >not a fun condition to live with, as you are already aware. > >If you feel so strongly about having a family, try adoption. Please note the word SUPPORT in the Newsgroup's title. Even though I can be outspoken here at times, I hope I have never been as rude or insensitive as you have been in your comment above.
 Signature Malcolm
Mike Kelliher - 18 Mar 2006 18:14 GMT I took Valproate for 21 years and had two boys. So no problems here however I have also been told by my ex's new husband " How dare you have children and pass this on to them." Nice guy... Childhood onset seizures (petit mal) evidently can be passed on. I didn't know this until I had kids myself. Luckely my kids don't have them.
G. - 19 Mar 2006 03:45 GMT Unless we have a Dr. around who can tell us (or others have more experience than I with petit mal), that is one of the mildest forms of seizures? I only had symptoms of that briefly as I got within the last ~10% of control in 1996-7. (My main ones were Complex partial = temporal lobe by the way, vs. Grand mal or other types.) And the new 'husband' above probably knows less about whether any of these things could be passed on or not. It sure is easy to stand in a corner and point fingers, without knowing what he is suggesting. *I would have thought that a Genetic predisposition would be something that couldn't happen, or might be pre-encoded in the egg? versus a sperm (sorry girls). I just thought that the 'malignant parts' of some conditions **would need to modify **All the cells in a Male's body**, to get programmed into a sperm? that developed 20 years later, into Brain material of a new Baby? If e.g. there's nothing flowing in the bloodstream that would code for seizures, there is no route that would produce seizures in the kids? Perhaps for Petit Mal the same is true if it's the woman who had it in childhood. And besides, since they didn't have any problems (your post above), what's his problem? I hope you didn't tell him about you and I coming from Mars too.. :-< G./
Dawn Terry - 19 Mar 2006 20:35 GMT Many Thanks to:
Julie, G, Partials, Mike & Malcolm.
For your support and help.
Mike (so very pleased that everything is OK for you with the Valproate.) We (Hubby & I ) do have 1 very healthy son....massive baby and as healthy as an ox. very determinied and wilfull.
Julie & G (Just for being so quick to respond, and friendly) Partials (excellent link to the case of changing the meds..) Something that we have considered, but they can't promise stability for my husband, and as he needs his drving licence as he is self-employed, he daren't change at the moment.
Dawn
> My husband takes Epilim (Sodium Valproate), and we have a very difficult > time conceiving? We were told about 3 years ago, that the reason could be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Best Wishes Julie - 20 Mar 2006 06:44 GMT > Many Thanks to: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >>Best Wishes Dawn, that is what this support group is here for. I wish I had an answer for you. Glad we were able to be there for you.
I'm feeling rather drugged right now myself. I've started a new drug therapy so I had to slowly add my new drug, Keppra, and will be very slowly going off phenobarbital. I'm feeling rather fortunate that I have a schedule where I feel like I am in control. I have a few clients and do volunteer work. I have decided after taking care of my parents for so many years that this year is the year to take care of my health needs.
I don't have to worry about fertility, but it will be interesting to see if I feel like my brain works better on the Keppra.
One side effect may be getting irritable. Guess no one in the group has irritated me yet.
Take care, Julie
G. - 20 Mar 2006 19:07 GMT Give us time, the day is young !! :-> ("no one has irritated you yet"...) Sometime in the next hour or 2 it's Spring in the N. Hemisphere :-> Autumn in Southern one :-<
I haven't used Keppra, but there have been quite a few posters who have used it, so hopefully they'll have some tips on how it worked for them, and *their type of szrs. or if they had problems. My understanding of lots of the *newer pills is they are often more targeted to a particular type of szrs. and though they might not be a good choice for my type, can prove excellent for your type (if your's are different than mine). And while your older one (Pheno) might give a general 'cure' to some types of szrs., there might be other side effects or brain-fog etc. that a newer targeted pill might not have. That's one of the pills that has been discussed a number of times here, and there could be stuff in the history file too, but more up-to-date experiences of people currently using it -- especially someone who has experience with same pill to pill transition will help others too, who might not be currently posting here.
Let us know how things develop. We need all the 'olde timers' we can muster here too... I only remember that *some of the meds. might need to be used for e.g. 3 to 6 weeks, before there is confirmation that the body/dose levels are at a Good Level or need to be clicked up or down a little. (I had to do that years ago with Tegretol and Frisium pills. While I thought they could take a sample when I hit peak of a particular pill dose, they usually waited above period, usually about 2-3 weeks, to look and see how it was being kept in my bloodstream.) Some of us purge things faster than others, so a dose for one of us might not be ideal for someone else, even at same weight or szr. type. But there should be a few people around who have used Keppra as that's been discussed often and many of the potential side effects and successes should be documented by now. G./
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