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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / December 2005

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Clonazepam

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smiles69 - 05 Dec 2005 09:23 GMT
I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although taking
1200mg Tegratol I have been told to take the above drug at night time (I
have ni idea what this drug is for or what it does). But since Friday of
last week I have 5 very nasty seizures. I am also due to integrate another
tablet, it is new to the UK (but has been used in the USA for a while). I
feel exhausted all the time since taking Clonazepan, and feel worse if
anything.

Q1. Has anyome else out there experienced difficulties with
Tegratol/Clonazepan.

Q2. Does anyome believe this combination had a positive impact on their
seizures (as I am not a believer right now)

Thanks
Ross
bugs@bugs.com - 05 Dec 2005 15:06 GMT
> I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although taking
> 1200mg Tegratol I have been told to take the above drug at night time (I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Q2. Does anyome believe this combination had a positive impact on their
> seizures (as I am not a believer right now)

I have a script for Klonopin and they give me Clonazepam as the generic
version of it. I take it when I feel a seizure coming on, which isn't much
anymore because I don't get much of a warning any longer. I can also take
them if I am having small seizures and they will stop the smaller ones. I
simply place a pill under my tongue and let it dissolve and the seizures
will stop rather quickly. I haven't found that it does anything for the
major seizures, but then again you can't take it while in the midst of a
grand mal now can you? ;o)  Maybe if you could it would help stop them as
well who knows.

I also do not take tegratol any longer I take Topamax and Mysoline.

Signature

I wish you all the best
Tim Wise

www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com

G.Ross - 05 Dec 2005 16:12 GMT
I'll need someone else with experience with Clonazepam? to comment on how
it's used and whether it works that fast.
 Its operation sounds somewhat similar to Ativan Sublingual (Lorazepam),
that I've used, in case that name is in same family as mine.  Before I was
fully controlled I carried some Ativan with me and if I had an aura before
onset, one tablet under my tongue would dissolve in under 5 minutes.  (There
are blood vessels there that absorb the medicinal properties far faster than
Swallowing the tablet.  In fact I think if this was swallowed mine might
produce erratic levels of control or be destroyed by stomach acids etc.)
   It was common for me within a couple of hours of using my Lorazepam (a
relaxant)  to relax off into a snooze of 1-2 hours.   Quite nice, and
relaxing actually.  And that probably helped my type of szr. to pass, as it
might have been more likely, due to blood levels of oxygen or ?? that caused
the auras (simple partials) I was getting ahead of a szr.  /G.

>> I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although taking
>> 1200mg Tegratol I have been told to take the above drug at night time (I
>> have no idea what this drug is for or what it does). But since Friday of
>> last week I have 5 very nasty seizures.
*** Does it say to swallow the tablet or use as a Sublingual as I described
above?  If you swallow it, does it say to add Juice, Milk or Food to help
with dissolving in your stomach?
  Note that *Grapefruit juice should Never be used with Tegretol.  It's
yucky and disgusting anyway, so a good opportunity to put it into the
landfill and use Hot Chocolate, apple juice, or something more enjoyable.
But one of the acids in G.fruit conflicts with Tegretol, that's not in other
juices that do Not contain the grapefruit.  G./

I am also due to integrate another
>> tablet, it is new to the UK (but has been used in the USA for a while). I
>> feel exhausted all the time since taking Clonazepan, and feel worse if
>> anything.
** Probably once you've added the secondary tablet and Slowly reduced the
Tegretol, the 2 will work together better than what you have so far and
you'll start to see some daylight.   I removed my night dose of 2x200mg
Tegretol CR (solid tablets) over a period of 8 weeks, and about week 4 we
added my second tablet for Complex Partial type szrs. (Temporal Lobe szrs.
on some sites). My 2ndary tablet happened to be Clobazam (Frisium) and we
started with half tablet (5mg) as night dose - when I had a szr. 3-4 weeks
later, we added half tablet With A.M. Tegretol I still take (200mg),  later
a full tablet of Frisium alone at night, and finally full tablet Frisium
with Tegretol as above.   Last dose change I did was about 1996, last szr. I
had was June 1998 with that combination.

    That isn't necessarily how your's might work out,  but the synergy of a
Second Tablet  with a Primary Anti Ep. Drug can provide seizure control in
some of us without the side effects that a single Med. alone might produce.
I rarely have any tiredness like I had on pure Tegretol CR, unless I'm up
late on this computer... :-<  but had none of the sensations I once related
to pills I was taking (Dilantin or Tegretol alone). I didn't notice Any side
effects with my 2nd pill after it was fully added and at final dose change 9
years ago.  G./

>> Q1. Has anyome else out there experienced difficulties with
>> Tegratol/Clonazepan.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> I also do not take tegratol any longer I take Topamax and Mysoline.
Sofia - 05 Dec 2005 15:54 GMT
> Q1. Has anyome else out there experienced difficulties with
> Tegratol/Clonazepan.
>
> Q2. Does anyome believe this combination had a positive impact on their
> seizures (as I am not a believer right now)

Hi Smiles, I thought I'd tell you a bit about my experience with
Clonazepam. Although at the moment I'm on a steady dose of 800mg
Tegretol and 1500 Keppra twice daily, I had to go through several
mix n match combinations with my Tegretol before I finally got here  
and Tegretol/Clonazepan were one of them.

It was awful, my co-ordination comletely went, and I was falling
over all over the place. I found it extremely mind bending too,
making me see and hear things that weren't actually there. I began
to think I was going mental, as I said and did a lot of strange
things I didn't know I was doing.

Firstly my neuro told me what I was experiencing was just the side
effects of the drug, and that they would go away after a while,
but as they just got worse, I decided it simply wasn't doing
anything for me exept making me look like a lunatic to everyone
else around me.

I was immediatly taken off it, and have absolutely nothing positive
to say about this combination at all. If the Tegretol/Clonazepan
partneship isn't working for you either, then I suggest that next
time you see your neuro, you tell him/her to take you straight off
it!!

All the best

Sofie    
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needhamleonards - 05 Dec 2005 19:43 GMT
Ross,
I had a similar experience - Clonazepan caused a dramatic increase in my
absense seizures. My advice would be to stop taking it immediately.
In my case it was prescribed for anxiety.
Jack

> I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although taking
> 1200mg Tegratol I have been told to take the above drug at night time (I
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks
> Ross
Mike Kelliher - 06 Dec 2005 05:19 GMT
Clonazapam(clonazepan), Lorazapam, Diazapam(valium) they are all
benzodiazepine's.
They are not very good for seizures as you eventually need to increase the
med as your body gets used to it. At least that is what my Neuro stated. I
was on it for awhile myself and it worked great except I had side effects I
didn't like. Nothing new.
Why would you take a drug that you have no idea what it is or what it
does????
I don't understand people who don't question. They(doctors) are only human
and you are paying them (a lot) so they OWE you answers.
You are your only true advocate.
Good luck
Mike

>I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although taking
> 1200mg Tegratol I have been told to take the above drug at night time (I
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks
> Ross
G.Ross - 06 Dec 2005 06:36 GMT
 I didn't realize it was in the same family as Lorazepam (bottom here). See
my earlier note on this thread about how sublingual works  (If your Pill
bottle says Sublingual on it, you should have been dissolving these under
your Tongue alone, without liquids or other things, and Not Swallowing it.)

.  As listed below by Mike, they are potentially habit forming and aren't
intended for Long Term Use.   It was a Stupid thing to give you without
instructions on how it works or how to use it.  It is a relaxant, that can
compliment some types of treatments, for some types of seizures.  It is
potentially habit forming and might stop working over a period of use, and
it's not intended to be used over a long period.

  When he prescribes the Second (Tegretol Supplement) Tab, *I'd consider
taking  the script to a Second Doctor for another opinion before filling it.
I think I listed on an earlier post about how **slowly I reduced the
Tegretol I was taking when a second tablet was added.
Do *not stop taking Tegretol abruptly -- Doctor or not-- it should be
reduced slowly over a period measured in weeks, if the dose is reduced when
a second tablet is added.  That's what I did with mine -- ~8 weeks to remove
2x200mg solid tablets.  I still use 2 tablets x 200mg with a second pill for
CP Seizure control.   (I can list in more detail how we reduced the Solid
Tegretol Tablets as an example, if you don't see anything in the history
file or talking to the pharmacist, *if they decide to reduce your dosage.
If a second pill is added for seizure control, it would be normal to reduce
(first) some of the current Tegretol, so the 2 don't over-medicate you.)

And as Mike noted in post below, my second (complimentary) tablet, **wasn't
Lorazepam.

  Those are Not Smarties (Candy)..  The Pharmacy at a minimum should have
given you a printout describing what it is, how it's used and what Not to do
with it.   I don't know who is worse for this lack of patient information,
the Chemist or the one who wrote the prescription.

There's probably an entry under the U.S. Ep. Foundation Website, under
medications, then scroll to pill name or type it and click 'search' or
whatever the button says beside the search box.  EFA site is at
http://efa.org  then look for Medications Glossary.    (Take out your Pill
Bottle and type the exact name that's there, to make sure it finds the
correct pill --you're looking for a 1-page printable report on how it's used
and what it's for.  That is a page similar to what a Pharmacy should have
Given  you.)  /G.

> Clonazapam(clonazepan), Lorazapam, Diazapam(valium) they are all
> benzodiazepine's.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>> Thanks
>> Ross
Patsy and Darryl - 06 Dec 2005 12:02 GMT
Hi,
I found the below at: http://www.drugs.com/cons/PMS_Clonazepam.html
"Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in
other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an
interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to
change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. When you are
taking or receiving benzodiazepines it is especially important that
your health care professional know if you are taking any of the
following:

 a.. Central nervous system (CNS) depressants (medicines that cause
drowsiness)?The CNS depressant effects of either these medicines or
benzodiazepines may be increased; your doctor may want to change the
dose of either or both medicines"
And the below at: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-t01.html

"Induction of hepatic enzymes in response to carbamazepine may have
the effect of diminishing or abolishing the activity of certain drugs
that are also metabolized in the liver. The dosage of the following
drugs may have to be adjusted when administered with carbamazepine:
Clobazam, clonazepam, ethosuximide, primidone, valproic acid,
alprazolam, corticosteroids (e.g. prednisolone, dexamethasone),
cyclosporin, digoxin, doxycycline, felodipine, haloperidol,
thioridazine, imipramine, methadone, oral contraceptives, theophylline
and oral anticoagulants (warfarin, phenprocoumon, dicumarol)."

I've been taking tegretol, epilim, neurontin and clobazam (which I
think is similar to clonazepam) for some time, with little side
effects apart from a combination of the usual tiredness and occasional
insomnia - strange combination as it may be.

Cheers,
Darryl.

>I have now started my chnages in the medication I take. Although
>taking
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Thanks
> Ross
pipercub49 - 06 Dec 2005 14:31 GMT
Smiles,I was only on Tegretol for a very short time. But I have been on
cloazepam for quiet a while. Along with Dilantin, Zonegran,Keppra and
Diastat as needed. I have been on almost very AED there is. There are
two  I can't go back on because I got Pancreatitis. That would be
Tegretol and Depakote. But at the time I was on Tegretol and Cloazepam
and the other med AED's. I do not remember having any bad side effects.
But then that was just a bit over a year ago and I was having seizures
everyday. Now The seizures have decreased and I can truely say I know
how I feel now. I take the Cloazepam twice a day and I am not so tired
unless I have a seizure.
The other seizure meds I think I have gotten use to but then maybe I
just forgot what it is like not to me drugged up. But it is far better
then having Gran Mal seizures everyday. Any med you have to give it a
chance. There were some I took for just 3 days and would not take
anymore. But that was rare. Just hang in there. Hope all goes well.
Maybe you should tell your DR.  M.
smiles69 - 07 Dec 2005 11:10 GMT
Thanks to all that replied to my post.

I have been able to get little "official" advice quickly(this is the NHS
for you). And so I have had to design my own reduction programme. I have
only been on this for 3 weeks now, and I was taking 1mg at night (2x0.5mg)
pills. For the last 3 nights I have reduced this to a single pill, and was
goling to reduce down to half a pill tonight. This seems a safe way to
reduce a tablet, but with me unable to get the info I need I have to make
decisions.

Q1. Has anyome else reduced themselves off this pill?

Thanks
Ross
Patsy and Darryl - 07 Dec 2005 12:21 GMT
I wouldn't recommend reducing ANY AED without consulting a neuro first
(though I must admit I've done it myself - never was too good at
taking my own advice).
Now that the official disclaimer is out of the way.................
I think that you should reduce it very slowly. Go down one step as you
have done and STAY at that level for two or three weeks before
dropping down to the next level. It's always better to drop too slow
rather than too fast.
This is the way I've reduced clobazam (which I believe to be a similar
drug, but could be wrong) in the past and it's worked well for me.
Generally it's easier to INCREASE a medication than to DECREASE it. So
reducing levels needs to be done slower than any increases are done.
All the best.
Darryl.

> Thanks to all that replied to my post.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks
> Ross
smiles69 - 08 Dec 2005 10:34 GMT
Daryl,

I could not agree more and if I was on a bigger dose or had been on it for
longer, or it was my main tablet I would never consider a "self reduction"
programme.

I also take 1200mg of Tegratol and the Clonazepam was aimed at a night
time drug only. I have taken 1 tablet for the last 3 days, instead of 2
and will continue to do so for another 4 days. I will then take 1/2 a
tablet for a week.

Since starting Clonazepam I have had more absences than ever before. And
it has some nasty side effects that are of a more personal nature (not
good when looking at a family) I have also come out in acne (at 36 this is
not good)

Thanks for yours and everyones elses input here.

Merry Xmas
Ross
pipercub49 - 08 Dec 2005 12:30 GMT
Smiles,
I am just saying what my Neuro. told me. This is by NO means any
medical advice. But I did mention I was on 4 AED and Clonazempam being
one. I really do not notice any side effects. But I do get tired and
need to nap during the day.I am on .5mg in the am and .5mg in the pm.
What he told me was if I did decide to stop taking it. Which at this
point he does not want me to. To not just stop. Take a half of the
morning dose. But not to just stop it. He also told me to not stop the
pm dose. But if you are going to stop it do it a little like you said
at a time. 3 weeks may not seem like to long. But to our bodies it can
seem like a long time.
Becareful and Safe. I hope you feel better. M. Finney
Chris Lesurf - 15 Dec 2005 07:23 GMT
I have never taken Clonazepam but I have taken 10mg/night clobazam for
years and was allowed to keep a stock of 10mg diazepam tablets to take
when I wanted to before they became recognised as being addictive (ie
losing their effect with time). They are both benzodiazepines. I take
clobazam in the middle of the night because it helps me to get back to
sleep and I used to take diazepam the night before a day when it was more
important than usual not to have a fit. It may have been that the latter
jsut acted as a placebo.

Something that may be of interest to others is that Keppra caused fluid
retention which made joints uncomfortable and nealry led to my having an
operation for carpal tunnel suyndrome. The neurologist had no idea about
that side effect and so I suffered for a year. I suggest having enough
courage to mention your opinion strongly.

Cheers,

Chris

In article
<0b08849dcdc0bd9440645ea5d9a936fe@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>,
> Daryl,

> I could not agree more and if I was on a bigger dose or had been on it for
> longer, or it was my main tablet I would never consider a "self reduction"
> programme.

> I also take 1200mg of Tegratol and the Clonazepam was aimed at a night
> time drug only. I have taken 1 tablet for the last 3 days, instead of 2
> and will continue to do so for another 4 days. I will then take 1/2 a
> tablet for a week.

> Since starting Clonazepam I have had more absences than ever before. And
> it has some nasty side effects that are of a more personal nature (not
> good when looking at a family) I have also come out in acne (at 36 this is
> not good)

> Thanks for yours and everyones elses input here.

> Merry Xmas
> Ross
Sofia - 15 Dec 2005 23:20 GMT
> Something that may be of interest to others is that Keppra caused fluid
> retention which made joints uncomfortable and nealry led to my having an
> operation for carpal tunnel suyndrome.

Hi Chris, is there anywhere we could get more information on this - it's
just that I've never heard of it before, but have always had fluid
retention, for years before I was put on Keppra?

Couldn't fluid retention also be the after effects of several other meds
or natural day to day conditions?

All the best

Sofie

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Please visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/

G.Ross - 18 Dec 2005 04:49 GMT
>> Something that may be of interest to others is that Keppra caused fluid
>> retention which made joints uncomfortable and nealry led to my having an
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> All the best
> Sofie
  I think within the U.S.  Ep. Foundation website there's a Medications
Glossary.  You either type in the name of the pill and click 'search' or
'go' and it give you a one page summary like you should get from the
Pharmacy if you had a prescription filled for a particular pill.
  If it's a pill you haven't used, it will still give a good description of
what it is, how it's used and what not to use with it -- usually alcohol,
but I found the Grapefruit and Tegretol conflict (I think) on the EFA site
too, before my Druggist added it to their printout.

 The EFA site should be at  http://efa.org   .   Gordon.   (I don't
remember where you are :-<  but I think Chris is in the UK, so although the
pill names are often similar, sometimes they have slightly different names,
but can be found on the EFA site anyway. )
  Let me know if that site doesn't have the Pill Glossary easy to find, and
I'll look for a more accurate link in the Morning !!    Gordon.
smiles69 - 21 Dec 2005 15:33 GMT
I have since slowly weaned myself off these pills. Clonazepam demonstarted
more downs the benefits in my view. I have also just asked to change
Neuro's as I am not happy with the level of consultation time. I am oging
private to have a full 2 hour assessment to look more deeply into the
whole issue of medication and side effects at the National Centre For
Epilepsy in the UK. You have to get referred from the GP but it is worth
the money for a real piece of mind on the options.

I feel much better now I am back to 1200mg of Tegratol.

Merry Xmas to you all

Ross
Chris Lesurf - 22 Dec 2005 03:26 GMT
It obviously does have other causes but my fluid retention was definitely
caused by Keppra as it started and stopped at the same time.

I can't even remember where I found out about fluid retention but I'll
check in my British Medical Association reference book, 'Complete Family
Health' and let you know if I find anything useful.

By the way, I hope that many of you will continue to chat over Christmas
as my husband and I never go out to do anything very interesting over
public holidays and having only the same person's company for 24hrs/day is
too much, even if you love each other dearly.

Fortunately, I've come out of a 4 month long low into a bipolar high in
time for Christmas which means I do have ideas for rewarding activities to
plan and then develop in the New Year.

Wishing you all a Happy Hogmanay,

Chris L.

> > Something that may be of interest to others is that Keppra caused fluid
> > retention which made joints uncomfortable and nealry led to my having an
> > operation for carpal tunnel suyndrome.

> Hi Chris, is there anywhere we could get more information on this - it's
> just that I've never heard of it before, but have always had fluid
> retention, for years before I was put on Keppra?

> Couldn't fluid retention also be the after effects of several other meds
> or natural day to day conditions?

> All the best

> Sofie

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