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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / November 2005

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"Emotionally Based" Seizure?

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Nate - 22 Nov 2005 00:52 GMT
Hello. This is my first post here.

I just had an Ambulatory EEG and the Dr's office just called to say
that when I hit the button to mark the time I had a Seizure the brain
activity was normal but I had a seizure the night before at 9 pm that I
didn't know about while I was asleep.  The one when I hit the button
happened at 5:50-ish AM and woke me up. Almost always these happen
between 3 and 6 AM (a few times they happened between 5:55 and 6:05 AM)
and  wake up with this out of body type weird  feeling and after about
five seconds I have involentary teeth chattering for a few seconds.
Then it is over.

The one at 9 PM that didn't wake me up the Dr's office says is the
regular electrical impulse type and the one at 5:40-ish one that I
marked might have been the "Emotionally Based" Seizure.  What exactly
is an "Emotionally Based" Seizure?

I can't find much about it so far.

I was recently disabled for the Seizure disorder. The Dr's nurse also
mentioned the term Pseudoseizure whice I looked up:

pseudoseizure (pseudoseizure) (soodo-sezhr)  an attack
resembling an epileptic seizure but having purely psychological causes;
it lacks the electroencephalographic characteristics of epilepsy and
the patient may be able to stop it by an act of will. Called also
pseudoepilepsy.

Any input is appreciated.

Thank you
Julie - 22 Nov 2005 03:42 GMT
Welcome, Nate.  Here is some information about non-epileptic seizures.
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/nonepileptic.htm

Take care,
Julie Walton, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

> Hello. This is my first post here.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Thank you
G.Ross - 22 Nov 2005 14:06 GMT
> Welcome, Nate.  Here is some information about non-epileptic seizures.
> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/nonepileptic.htm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho
> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org

That's the best article I've seen so far on what causes them, possible
triggers and how they relate (or don't) to the main types of Epileptic
conditions.    Gordon.
Nate - 22 Nov 2005 14:18 GMT
used to have grand mal seizures when I was younger, especially when I
was a teenager. What I have now I have always told people was Petit mal

seizures. When I was late teens to early twenties if I stubbed my toe
or if someone  suprised me by sneaking up behind me and yelling "BOO"
or something similar I would have on of these "Twilight Zone" out of
body
feelings and my teeth would chatter a few seconds. It wouldn't ALWAYS
happen, but sometimes.   That doesn't happen anymore if I stub my toe
or I am suprised by someone/thing.

I do take meds.  I started having seizures when I was 24 HOURS old.
Brain damage from a hard Birth and a DR that perhaps was too busy to
show up and
used forceps when he did show up. There is also the possibility I had a

stroke when I was being born or soon after.  One Neurologist said it
looked like (from CAT scan) that I had a Cyst on the brain with fluid
in it that never grew or chaned so wasn't a problem. Another
Neurologist later suggested it was an area showing I might have had a
stroke. No one seems to know.

Anyway I had no problems for years when I was a kid till one night when

I was 8 I had a  grand mal, we went to the hospital and the started me
on phenol barbotol. I have been on meds about all the time since. I am
30 now.

I was on Dialantin  and Tegritol the longest, about 10-15 years. They
did switch the Tegritol to Carbatrol which I think is about exactly the

same thing. Then about a year ago they took me off both slowly and put
me on Topomax and Lamictal.  That is what I am on now.
G.Ross - 22 Nov 2005 04:24 GMT
 At bottom, I'll append a list of websites I post about once a month. Last
time this was put up about 3 weeks ago.  You can look at the Ep. Foundation
website, I doubt you'll find that phrase listed anywhere there (subject line
above).
   The closest you might come is if they had been able to find where you
had a Seizue Focus (place where szrs. appeared to start from),  it would
have likely been in one of the Temporal Lobes if it was triggered by
Emotional events happening in your life.
   You can also look at the First Aid for seizures descriptions of
behaviours of various szr. types, under the Idaho links for most common
seizure types.  *If you had any sensations, Tastes or Aromas that weren't
truly present, those are Auras that can help identify where the szr. focus
(start point) likely was.  Lemon or sour taste or aroma is common from a
Right Temporal Lobe szr. for example, while Left side version produces an
Eggy or Acrid taste or aroma in many people.   Other types of sensations
that could be present are listed on those sites.

    So far as I know (from reading here since 1998),  an Emotionally Based
Seizure is a meaningless diagnosis.  Some of us can have szrs. that can be
triggered or made worse by emotional events around us  (babies crying,
people who are injured or crying out near us, etc.)  but other than the
sensitivities I mentioned above, so far as I know there's no meaningful
diagnosis that includes an Emotionally Based seizure.    Even the phrase
Pseudo seizure they used below suggests a Fake or Artificial seizure, rather
than one which is Identified using an MRI or an EEG.
    Note that many people can have Seizures that might be difficult to show
on an EEG or may not be readily measured unless the equipment actually
measures electrical activity **During the seizure.  The people who usually
have that, *aren't given equipment to press a button when they feel a
seizure (a very subjective test and thus prone to errors or
misinterpretation by Doctors).   They are Wired similar to what you were,
but given a Sleep Deprived EEG, where they are kept awake for periods of
24-40? hours.    The idea with that process is that when we become
over-tired, our guards tend to be lower and some of the seizure types can
occur then more easily.
  Note your Own descriptions when you had seizure sensations Late at night
or after you've been asleep for a period of time (I put ***s below). Several
of the seizure types, we are not Conscious of what we do or say when they
happen and can't give descriptions like you did of what was happening to
you.  When our types happen we are 'away in the Twilight Zone', and only
discover what we said or did from Witnesses to our seizure who are able to
tell us after we return to normal after an event.

  Other symptoms that we might not be aware of (at first)  if we have
nocturnal seizures, include biting our tongues, grinding our teeth to the
point where we might wake up in pain, or incontinence.  If these haven't
happened to any noticeable extent, you might be having other reactions but
not necessarily what is defined as a seizure.   That *might have been what
the Dr. meant by the pseudo seizure stuff, etc.,  but I don't know why
they'd Use that phrase as it's either a seizure or it's not.  If it doesn't
meet the criteria on the EEG Chart as a recognizable seizure type, it's Not,
at least until they find a method of determining when they happen and where
they originate in the brain.

   Sometimes I think that Pseudo-junk is just a sign that they don't know
what it is, but feel a need to throw a name at it, and hope it'll go away.
Until we get some other comments, if others might have experience with
these, at Bottom here I'll append an old post with some Websites you can
look through and see if there's anything that corelates with what you're
experiencing.  (I'll leave your older note here in the centre in case I come
across anything that might be of use in the next 5-7 days.)

** If they have prescribed any medications to you, the efa site listed has
an Ep. Medications Glossary that lists the most common ones used to treat
various types of seizures.  It sounded like they hadn't prescribed anything
since they don't appear to think you're having seizures, at least none that
they've been able to find so far.
   Under the efa site I think there's a search option where you can type in
what to search for, and click on go or search?   I'd be very surprised if it
turned up much wrt. pseudoseizures.   G.
 (Added sites at ***s at bottom) .

Hello. This is my first post here.
I just had an Ambulatory EEG and the Dr's office just called to say
that when I hit the button to mark the time I had a Seizure the brain
activity was normal but I had a seizure the night before at 9 pm that I
didn't know about ***while I was asleep***.  The one when I hit the button
*** above--> Those would be Nocturnal seizures. A Dr. (I would have thought)
would have known that. You might want to consider asking for a referral to a
Neurologist, who'd know that... /

happened at 5:50-ish AM and woke me up. Almost always these happen
between 3 and 6 AM (a few times they happened between 5:55 and 6:05 AM)
and  wake up with this out of body type weird  feeling and after about
five seconds I have involentary teeth chattering for a few seconds.
Then it is over.

The one at 9 PM that didn't wake me up the Dr's office says is the
regular electrical impulse type and the one at 5:40-ish one that I
marked might have been the "Emotionally Based" Seizure.  What exactly
is an "Emotionally Based" Seizure?

I can't find much about it so far.
I was recently disabled for the Seizure disorder. The Dr's nurse also
mentioned the term Pseudoseizure whice I looked up:

pseudoseizure (pseu·do·sei·zure) (soo"do-se´zh?r)  an attack
resembling an epileptic seizure but having purely psychological causes;
it lacks the electroencephalographic characteristics of epilepsy and
the patient may be able to stop it by an act of will. Called also
pseudoepilepsy.
Any input is appreciated.
Thank you
*****************************
I posted this list of websites about 3 weeks ago.
Here it is again. -->
"G.Ross" <> wrote in message
>  Some websites I'd found along my travels  -->

The main Idaho Epilepsy News site is at http://www.epilepsyidaho.org  .
Within that are links that also go through an Education area called Learn
about Epilepsy -- at http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/learn.htm.

  Often some *symptoms people **exhibit give clues to *type of seizures
they're having and best described on a First Aid for Seizures Chart.  These
are my favorites -- also from Epilepsy Idaho. One is
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure2.htm    and that links to
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm .   One of those is easier to
print, although both display well for information or reference.

  There is also a separate page for First Aid in Water I didn't include,
although those sites might link to it.  What to do when someone in swimming
is somewhat different that if they were to collapse 'on land'.

    Howdy Dave has a site he put together ~10? years ago and he regularly
updates.  He was also one of the oldest :-<  members of this group and
someone told me he was one of the Founders too.  Most people don't know
that, so he doesn't get a swelled head or anything.. :->   His site is at
http://www.howdydave.com  .  G2R2/

>    I have a few sites I used to post but they're not handy at the moment
> and I'll be offline shortly.    The main U.S. Ep. Foundation website is at
> http://efa.org  .   THIS SITE Has a Medication Glossary, although I found
> my own pharmacist a useful source of information if I had Side Effects or
> Questions about using a particular prescribed pill.
//  G./
Nate - 22 Nov 2005 14:05 GMT
I used to have grand mal seizures when I was younger, especially when I
was a teenager. What I have now I have always told people was Petit mal
seizures. When I was late teens to early twenties if I stubbed my toe
or if someone  suprised me by sneaking up behind me and yelling "BOO"
or something similar I would have on of these "Twight Zone" out of body
feelings and my teeth would chatter a few seconds. It wouldn't ALWAYS
happen, but sometimes.   That doesn't happen anymore if I stub my toe
or I am suprised by someone/thing.

I do take meds.  I started having seizures when I was 24 HOURS old.
Brain damage from a hard Birth and a DR that ws too busy to show up and
used forceps when he showed up. There is also the possibility I had a
stroke when I was being born or soon after.  One Neurologist said it
looked like (from CAT scan) that I had a Cyst on the brain with fluid
in it that never grew or chaned so wasn't a problem. Another
Neurologist later suggested it was an area showing I might have had a
stroke. No one seems to know.

Anyway I had no problems for years when I was a kid till one night when
I was 8 I had a  grand mal, we went to the hospital and the started me
on phenol barbotol. I have been on meds about all the time since. I am
30 now.

I was on Dialantin  and Tegritol the longest, About 10-15 years. They
did switch the Tegritol to Carbatrol which I think is about exactly the
same thing. Then about a year ago they took me off both slowly and put
me on Topomax and Lamictal.  That is what I am on now.
G.Ross - 22 Nov 2005 14:23 GMT
>I used to have grand mal seizures when I was younger, especially when I
> was a teenager. What I have now I have always told people was Petit mal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> happen, but sometimes.   That doesn't happen anymore if I stub my toe
> or I am suprised by someone/thing.
** You might have adapted to the scar tissue over time.  I used to get szrs.
if someone came up behind me, and they didn't even have to yell.   With an
adjustment to the pills I use for a different type, those don't happen now.
   The name of the szr. is almost misleading since they're still giving you
pills (below), so I'd tend to call it 'some new type of organic szr. or
something'  type,  while pseudo implies it's not Real or might be
Psychosomatic, when clearly in your case it is Not.   Julie's site she put
up last night after I posted has a good overview of the types of things that
can produce these. G./

> I do take meds.  I started having seizures when I was 24 HOURS old.
> Brain damage from a hard Birth and a DR that ws too busy to show up and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Neurologist later suggested it was an area showing I might have had a
> stroke. No one seems to know.
*** It may be a very hard to determine type.  It the cyst was there from
childhood, it has been mostly benign and may have grown as you grew up, but
it hasn't become worse than the original symptoms you had?   The meds. you
mention below are used for several seizure types within the Epilepsy Family,
but Tegretol and some other pills are also used for some people who've had
strokes etc. as they also assist? with bloodflow in constricted areas of
brain or heart (I had heard).  G./

> Anyway I had no problems for years when I was a kid till one night when
> I was 8 I had a  grand mal, we went to the hospital and the started me
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> same thing. Then about a year ago they took me off both slowly and put
> me on Topomax and Lamictal.  That is what I am on now.

G. Carbatrol is a generic form of Tegretol, and for people who can use it,
is cheaper but has essentially the same medical use as the full Tegretol.
The last 2 pills are newer (relatively) and may perform better for your type
to scar tissue or injury.    I hope so.    It would be nice to be able to
get rid of these for you, and you've had these long enough.   If *I had a
choice,  I'd hope these would work for you.  Others here are using those 2
pills too.    Keep us posted how they are working for you.  There are lots
of people who read or search this group, but who may be too shy to post.
But they still benefit from our shared experiences and successes.    G./

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