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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Epilepsy / November 2005Driving After a Seizure
After suffering a mild seizure, my wife's neurologist told her she wasn't to drive for six months. He said he wasn't going to report her to the state but that state law prohibited her driving for six months after having a seizure. My wife's seizures are generally well controlled but an incident of unusual stress can bring one on. She can tell when there is a possibility that she'll have a seizure and doesn't drive then. That's in addition to the aura that she feels immediately before the seizure. When I checked the state law I found it only says that one has to be seizure free for six months prior to applying for a license, nothing about not being able to drive after a seizure. Below is the actual wording of the statute. Do any of you have an opinion of the legality of driving within six months of a seizure? What do you do if you have a minor seizure after having gone for a year or more without one? (7) Seizure disorders which are controlled shall not be considered a disability. In cases where such seizure disorders are not controlled, the director or the medical advisory board may recommend that such person be issued a driver's license to drive class C or M vehicles and restricted to operating such vehicles as the division determines to be appropriate to assure the safe operation of a motor vehicle by the licensee. Restricted licenses issued pursuant to this paragraph shall be subject to suspension or revocation. For the purpose of this paragraph, seizure disorders which are controlled means that the licensee has not sustained a seizure involving a loss of consciousness in the waking state within six months preceding the application or renewal of a driver's license and whenever a person licensed to practice medicine and surgery makes a written report to the division stating that the licensee's seizures are controlled. The report shall be based on an examination of the applicant's medical condition not more than three months prior to the date the report is submitted. Such report shall be made on a form furnished to the applicant by the division. Any physician who makes such report shall not be liable for any damages which may be attributable to the issuance or renewal of a driver's license and subsequent operation of a motor vehicle by the licensee. The doctor that treats you has to report the seizure to the dmv because if they don't and you get in an accident the doctor can lose his license once they find out he treated this person. I would think that the doctor reported it and you will find out because if he did you will recieve something from the dmv. After 6 months your doctor should give good reports to the dmv because they do not have to give you your license back in6 months. If you can prove you have been siezure free and all the rest you are likely to get it back in 6 months or more > After suffering a mild seizure, my wife's neurologist told her she > wasn't to drive for six months. He said he wasn't going to report her [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > or renewal of a driver's license and subsequent operation of a motor > vehicle by the licensee. > After suffering a mild seizure, my wife's neurologist told her she > wasn't to drive for six months. He said he wasn't going to report her [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > of driving within six months of a seizure? What do you do if you have > a minor seizure after having gone for a year or more without one? I don't know how these things work in the U.S. (rules probably vary by State). Hopefully someone around here might have a website that lists the rules by State for you. One thing to consider if she Wasn't controlled, is my Dr. told me if I was driving before I attained full control in Canada, that my Vehicle Liability Insurance would probably be void, so if e.g. I caused serious injury or damage, some settlements via court could exceed several 10s of thousands of dollars. (On other issues here, courts have sometimes levied the expected lifetime income, if a 'breadwinner' was someone who was incapacitated or killed by an impaired driver. And even if I didn't survive the accident, my Estate could be garnisheed to that amount or until my personal insurance amount was used up, before my next of kin would be eligible for any of it. ) For that reason, and also because I didn't own a car during onset and treatment to full control, I didn't drive or look at buying a car then. I still haven't, but I've not had a seizure since 1998 now. Driving in some situations (rush hour or on freeways) can produce their own types of stress that could be triggers for some of our szr. types. But if the Dr. knows that she'd be responsible and not drive during the required period that would be required if they Did report her, they might bypass the reporting. As others have mentioned, if she did drive when not fully controlled and caused an accident or injury, and they found out she had been under treatment or taking szr. medications, that could be a problem for a Doctor who hadn't reported her. G. / > (7) Seizure disorders which are controlled shall not be > considered a disability. In cases where such seizure disorders are not [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > or renewal of a driver's license and subsequent operation of a motor > vehicle by the licensee. Howdy! If a person drives knowing that they have seizures they can get themselves into BIG trouble if they have an accident. If a person drives in spite of the fact that they have seizures, not only might their insurance be voided, they might be refused insurance in the future. If you accidently kill somebody while having a seizure you may be charged with vehicular homocide.  SignatureDave ©¿© "Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum" http://www.howdydave.com > After suffering a mild seizure, my wife's neurologist told her she > wasn't to drive for six months. He said he wasn't going to report her [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > or renewal of a driver's license and subsequent operation of a motor > vehicle by the licensee. It does vary state-to-state on what your doctor is required to do. In TN, as of the last time I experienced it, a doctor is not required to report you to the DMV, and is not held liable. However, they do warn you not to drive. On the other hand, you are held liable according to the six month rule as previously stated. Vehicular homicide/manslaughter charges can apply. I lost my license for 2 months until a doctor wrote a letter to DMV stating that I was in no more danger of having a seizure behind the wheel at the time. Nocturnal seizures was considered an exception at the time, as they were triggered by sleep apnea. E.B. >It does vary state-to-state on what your doctor is required to do. In >TN, as of the last time I experienced it, a doctor is not required to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Nocturnal seizures was considered an exception at the time, as they >were triggered by sleep apnea. Why is it six months in the States and a year in the UK? Are American medications stronger than ours? Or better? SignatureMalcolm >>It does vary state-to-state on what your doctor is required to do. In >>TN, as of the last time I experienced it, a doctor is not required to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Why is it six months in the States and a year in the UK? Are American > medications stronger than ours? Or better? It must be the water, it's 12 months in Canada too. G./ > It must be the water, it's 12 months in Canada too. G./ Actually in most provinces right now it has changed to a max of 6 months. The regulations changed a little over a year ago. Here in Newfoundland, when 6 months hits of being seizure free, it's just a matter of reapplying for a licence reinstatement. Pam Epilepsy Newfoundland and Labrador epilepsy@nf.aibn.com (709) 722-0502 or 1-866-EPILEPSY Visit our website at http://www.nfld.net/epilepsy/ I am the original poster. Thanks to all who responded. I'm grateful for of all your points of view. My wife and I both understand the importance of not driving when there is a possibility of having a seizure. I sympathize with those of you who have to remain seizure free for 1 or 2 years before being able to drive. In two previous states where we lived the time period was only 3 months. We thought our current state was tough with a six month limit. My question was about whether, after suffering a minor seizure in a long time, if you voluntarily stop driving for the required period. I also mentioned that having looked up the law in our state, it doesn't appear that it even requires one to stop driving after a seizure, only to be seizure free for 6 months prior to applying for, or renewing a drivers license. An anecdote: My wife is from Mexico. Once while in Mexico she decided to get a Mexican driver's license in addition to her U.S. one. After filling out the forms and passing the test, the examiner was ready to give her license when my wife said, "Oh by the way, I have epilepsy." "Then you're ineligible." He responded. She asked, "How many accidents and how many fatalities do you have a year from drunk driving?" "Lots" "And how many accidents do you have a year from epileptics?" she asked. "None", he answered. "So how can you justify denying licenses to epileptics when drunk drivers are so much more dangerous?" "I can't" he said. "Of course I don't drink because I have diabetes." he went on. "Aha", she said, "At least I can tell when I'm about to have a seizure but diabetics just black out without any warning. You're more dangerous than I am." She got her license. > > It must be the water, it's 12 months in Canada too. G./ > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Visit our website at http://www.nfld.net/epilepsy/ Cool, I love that one, Skeptic E.B. > I am the original poster. Thanks to all who responded. I'm grateful > for of all your points of view. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > She got her license. Howdy! Debating the issue with the clerk who issues the license is not going to change your liability under the law. The law may be unfair, the law may be unreasonable and the law may be incorrect. Still... if it's on the books and you've broken it you are, by definition, a criminal. If you don't like the law: WORK TO CHANGE IT or MOVE SOMEPLACE ELSE. SignatureDave ©¿© "Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum" http://www.howdydave.com > > > It must be the water, it's 12 months in Canada too. G./ > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Visit our website at http://www.nfld.net/epilepsy/ Dave, Brilliant!!! > Howdy! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > or > MOVE SOMEPLACE ELSE. Dave I used to agree that the laws were unfair and absolutely unreasonable but no more will I say that. I have argued the same exact argument about drunk drivers and people with diabeties, heart conditions, high blood pressure or even drug addicts. I have argued them all but not anymore will I argue them I will support them. The laws are there to protect us that have seizures as well as those that don't have them. When you are driving along as normal as could ever be thought possible and without warning you wake up stopped dead in your tracks against the guard rail bleeding from who knows where a person would not want to drive anymore. That is what happened to me and I promise you it isn't any fun. I have totaled three vehicles in as many years. One was not from a seizure but it was still a totaled vehicle. You can imagine what my insurance is like and it is all because of the epilepsy. I have given up my right to drive, I did it of my own free will. The original poster is questioning if his wife should stop driving because of what the doctor says. I say to him he should encourage her to not drive because if she does it could very well cost her her life. I have been extremely lucky and I am not going to press my luck any further. Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com > > Howdy! > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... Howdy Tim! Couldn't have said it better! SignatureDave ©¿© "Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum" http://www.howdydave.com >> Howdy! >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... I agree totally Tim. I drove for 35 years or so, incident free, confident that I always got a warning before a seizure and an accident couldn't happen to me, but I was wrong. A seizure struck with no warning and I left the road and hit a pedestrian who is now dead because of my selfishness. Ok, it's inconvenient, to say the least, not having a license - especially as I live way out in the country - but at least now I'm not risking anyone else's life or my own any more. The problem with epilepsy is that it has a mind of its own. It changes as and when it feels like it and doesn't give you any notice that it's going to. Darryl. > I agree totally Tim. I drove for 35 years or so, incident free, > confident that I always got a warning before a seizure and an accident > couldn't happen to me, but I was wrong. Apart from being used to getting warnings, did you consider your seizures controlled at that time? /\, ole k SignatureIf a problem can't be solved, then what is the use of worrying? If a problem can be solved, then what is the need of worrying? (Shantideva) > Apart from being used to getting warnings, did you consider your > seizures controlled at that time? Yes I was under control for quite sometime and with no warning they went out of control and no meds have been able to get them back under control. SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com >Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... That's a bit of a generalisation!!! Seizures *only* while asleep are considered fine in the UK and you can continue to drive. >>Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... > > That's a bit of a generalisation!!! Seizures *only* while asleep are > considered fine in the UK and you can continue to drive. But that wasn't what Tim (bugs) said (asleep part above). He was talking about regular szrs. during the day. (I know he said 'of any kind', but if a szr. is Nocturnal *only, that doesn't apply to most drivers unless they had absences too.) Many North America jurisdictions, once a Dr. identifies you as not controlled, liability insurance may be void if you continue to drive, until a Dr. releases that risk being present (during the day). The original poster (Tim) said on that thread. --> Dave I used to agree that the laws were unfair and absolutely unreasonable but no more will I say that. <then he gave example of how he had totalled [destroyed] 3 cars here- plus> You can imagine what my insurance is like and it is all because of the epilepsy. I have given up my right to drive, I did it of my own free will. Tim then added -> The original poster is questioning if his wife should stop driving because ******************************************************** of what the doctor says. I say to him he should encourage her to not drive ****************** because if she does it could very well cost her her life. I have been extremely lucky and I am not going to press my luck any further. ********************************* [*Then he said --> ] Simply said seizures of any kind and driving DO NOT MIX....... SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise Thanks gaross for taking my back on this one. You got what I was saying perfectly. I guess I should apologize about the "bugs" name. I use it because I don't want to use my real email address due to loads of spam. I did that at one point and didn't like what I got so I came up with the bugs@bugs.com. It is bogus and it actually fits because I own a Pest Control Company. Bugs are my business. SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com > That's a bit of a generalisation!!! Seizures *only* while asleep are > considered fine in the UK and you can continue to drive. I was considered under control and was only having nocturnal seizures when they went out of control, so if you are having nocturnal seizures they could very well be a sign of things to come. I hope they stay nocturnal and never rear their ugly head during the day and especially while a person is driving. If they do it can and usually does get ugly. Maybe I did generalise a little but I am only speaking from personal experience not from something I have read or from hear say. It has happened to me. What I say I have lived and I am trying to keep someone else from doing the same. If it upsets someone please forgive me but it has not been fun for me or for my family. SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com I thought I asked this earlier but I didnt see any response ,whether that was do to my failure or the isp.I was wondering how someone knows if they are having night time seizures? Piper >I thought I asked this earlier but I didnt see any response ,whether that > was do to my failure or the isp.I was wondering how someone knows if they > are having night time seizures? > > Piper No Sun in the Sky or any place to be seen. Carl >>I thought I asked this earlier but I didnt see any response ,whether >>that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Carl Smart arse :-) >I thought I asked this earlier but I didnt see any response ,whether that > was do to my failure or the isp.I was wondering how someone knows if they > are having night time seizures? > Piper You might wake up with a headache or pain in mouth (from grinding your teeth during a szr.). Incontinence or blankets etc. thrown off (from signs of thrashing during a szr.) can also be signs the medication is wearing off during the night, or you're having nocturnal seizures- the first more than the second. I used to also have some sleepless nights where I'd barely get to sleep then awake and have to get up or read for a period to try get asleep again, then that might repeat several times during the night. Someone without seizures might just put that up to a bad night, but usually mine would repeat 3 or 4x a night. (I had that about 3 nights ago, although I didn't have any auras or other symptoms that would indicate any risk of a seizure. *Some of my auras used to be triggered by drop in Air Pressure as a storm front moved in. I don't get Headaches like I used to then, but still have periods of restlessness from the Drop in air pressure. After the weather stabilizes (I adjust to the change that affects blood vessel expansion, and likely blood pressure), I can then usually sleep. If you don't have any of above types of symptoms, you may not be having nocturnal seizures. (Our guards tend to be lower as we sleep, so if there is a chance of a szr. starting, it might happen then, even if we had few auras or real seizures while we're awake. ) G./ > I was wondering how someone knows if they > are having night time seizures? Mine will usually wake me up, that is how I know. Also I find myself in the floor from mine, or I should say I used to until I started piling pillows up so that I was not able to fall out of the bed during a szr. Now I have not fallen in the floor since doing that. SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com >Still... if it's on the books and you've broken it you are, by definition, a >criminal. > >If you don't like the law: >WORK TO CHANGE IT Dave, Remember, I worked to change it. I stood up in court and argued my case with the magistrate whilst my lawyer tugged at my jacket-tail trying to get me to sit down. 1) I argued that as my seizures were triggered by marathon running, the impossibility of running a marathon whilst riding a motorbike negated any risk. 2) As medication meant I did not drink alcohol, I was therefore safer than the vast majority of drivers on the road. 3) And whilst drink drivers were punished by losing their licence for a year for accidents they have caused, I was having my licence taken away for three years for an accident I had not even had. Despite her sexy black stockings with seams up the back, she threw the book at me, with every possible application of the UK laws which she could think of. It cost me a lot of money (I cannot remember how much, but I do recall being shocked at the time). But I would do it again tomorrow. (PS. Every cloud has a silver lining - within six days of being charged I was in hospital courtesy of a lorry driver ramming my pedal bike from behind. My new-found legal confidence enabled me to take him to court and he made a large out-of-court settlement to preserve his HGV licence :) SignatureMalcolm > >It does vary state-to-state on what your doctor is required to do. In > >TN, as of the last time I experienced it, a doctor is not required to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Why is it six months in the States and a year in the UK? Are American > medications stronger than ours? Or better? Howdy Malcom! It's 2 YEARS in some states! SignatureDave ©¿© "Ego sum quis Ego sum quod ut est quicumque Ego sum" http://www.howdydave.com >Howdy Malcom! > >It's 2 YEARS in some states! Luxury. It were three years when I started and we had to live in a brown paper bag in t'road. SignatureMalcolm >>Howdy Malcom! >> >>It's 2 YEARS in some states! > > Luxury. It were three years when I started and we had to live in a brown > paper bag in t'road. But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'. ole k SignatureIf a problem can't be solved, then what is the use of worrying? If a problem can be solved, then what is the need of worrying? (Shantideva) E.B. I have a question. How do you know if your having nocturnal seizures? I have apnea too. p > It does vary state-to-state on what your doctor is required to do. In > TN, as of the last time I experienced it, a doctor is not required to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > E.B. To the original poster and all that replied, my question is simply this if she is having seizures if even just one why take the risk? I did just yesterday and ended up in a traffic accident, but it doesn't end there, this wasn't my first. No this was my third accident. I have thought I could tell when the seizures were coming on and I have been wrong three times. Yesterday I did something that nobody expected, I surrendered my driving privilege. It was not taken from me I ask for it to be taken. The policeman even questioned me about being serious about it and I ask him to please take them from me. I have a business and really need to drive, this is going to be a hardship like I don't want to face but I am going to do it no matter what. I don't care if I am seizure free for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, I will always remember waking up after normal driving with blood everywhere and wondering what the hell has happened to me. I am extremely lucky that each of my accidents I was the only vehicle involved. Never was anyone else involved. I have been cut up pretty bad but never had to be hospitalized but if I were to continue driving next time I may hit another car and kill an entire family and the worst thing would be I would probably survive. I will not put YOU in jeopardy of my seizures by driving any longer. So I ask the original poster if you love your wife as I expect you do, do her a great favor and don't allow her to drive, she may not get three chances as I did. SignatureI wish you all the best Tim Wise www.onepest.com www.askourpros.com > To the original poster and all that replied, my question is simply this if > she is having seizures if even just one why take the risk? I did just [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > her a great favor and don't allow her to drive, she may not get three > chances as I did. Sir, You have my thanks and respect. mike
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